SpaMan
-
Posts
83 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by SpaMan
-
-
Sometimes it gets frustrating offering some opinions on a product line in response to a consumer question when the answer is totally misinterpreted by some ot those on this website. Maybe it's an indictment about our educational system with people not being able to read and understand clearly. It APPEARS that both Spaman and dlynn both misunderstood my prior post about CalSpa and their dealer network here in metro Chicago.
As Glenn recently pointed out, I was not slamming CalSpa directly; rather just pointing out the reasons why I was not able to buy one of their units. LET ME REPEAT, both of CalSpa's very large, multi-location dealers told me they don't market Cal actively due to problems they have had in the past with this mfg. One of them sells only 2 models (neither one of them displayed on the floor at the location nearest me) and the other neither displays or markets Cal's products whatsoever! Now what part of my criticism don't you guys understand? I wanted very much to see an Avalon series model and was impressed with Cal's engineering and components, but without being able to wet test (let alone even seeing) a unit, there was no way to justfiy spending good money on a product neither recommended by a dealer nor able to view.
Thus my words of warning to Dr. Jo about what dealers in Chicago had to say about CalSpa and why I didn't buy their product. This letter was probably a waste of a couple of minutes of my time, but I wanted to clarify my original post to those who didn't get it right the first time!
Would ya mind backing the claim up with a name and phone number of who you spoke with as I have been talking to the major dealer in Chicago and he personally would like to know exactly who you are talking about. It just doesnt seem wise to spend thousands of dollars to have product sitting on your floor, and then not offering to sell it. If an employee is doing this he or she needs to be fired immediately. In every business plan you do your flooring and each product should pay a certain amount per square ft each month and when the product fails to produce such figures its time ot rotate it out, but not before making an honest effort to offer the items for sale.
What you are saying very much compares to going to a dealer who carries two brands of cars and then the dealer says "ah you dont want that brand of car as they fall apart and our service on them sucks" You story is like a local spas builders tubs it simply doesnt hold water. So repeat it as often as you like it still doesnt make sense.
-
Hey , Where are you from? The dealer can make a difference, however Cal is making Spas better than ever before , no jet back orders, excellent warranty and quality control is unprecidented. Dont let some dude who isnt happy with his local dealer make your decision for you. Here in Denver I can tell you were #1 in the business and the same holds true in Minnesota and Vegas. The problems you may see being complained about is are mainly the problematic dealers that still exist. The reason Cal Spas takes so much grief is because it lends its name to its Dealers. Please remember that every manufacturer has problematic dealers. I would be happy to help you with any pricing that you may have questions about.
-
I appreciate your imput so I will ask you to tell me in your opinion who makes a better product in the market than Arctic and the reasons for your thoughts. Also, I'm curious as to why you think people believe you are bashing Arctic when you "level the playing field" by injecting your comments. Is that only true for Arctic or do you receive the same reactions from owners of other brands? Here's another take I have on the industry and the "players" who have been on this site for years. It seems to me that there are about 5 mfgs. who don't seem to critique each other; they being Hot Springs(Caldera), Dimension One, Sundance, and Jacuzzi. Does my observation have any merit? I know they are probably the biggest, but are they necessarily the best? Besides Jim, I don't recall any of you industry-types ever mentioning any problems with any of these brands. They also can't be perfect. Your thoughts?
They have all had problems at one time or another, the difference is how each company deals with and takes care of the problems. Some companies get right on it , others deny and hide their problems. Thats the difference.
-
I hope I am not too late with my response to your question, but wife and I also were very interested in the Avalon series #A857B. It had fantastic seating and lots of jets with a center footjet well with volcano. Unfortunately, in a metro area of over 7mm (Chicago) neither dealer chain who are supposed to sell Cal Spas have even one to wet test. They barely even have any on their floors! I was told that there have been considerable problems with the product over the last few years with replacement parts hardly in existence. Jets are on indefinite backorder which means good luck getting them any time soon. So dealers pull back and avoid further headaches caused by the mfg. OR, Cal Spas pays less commission; therefore the dealers decide to sell one of their other brands. I do not know the truth for sure, but it is very discouraging not being able to test one of their spas in an area this size. If the problem is not with Cal Spas, why don't they appoint new dealers here or is the problem with the mfg. BBB gives them a satisfactory rating although they do have hundreds of complaints lodged against them. But CS is huge with many products other than spas so I discount the complaint size. I have heard from many though that jets popping out of their spas is a real problem. That has been corroborated even on this site. We are visiting an Arctic dealer within the next week to wet test their Tundra. I like their TP design as well and think it would do well here in Northern IL. We also would like to test the Vita Rendevous. Does anyone know anything about them?
All lies as its the dealer that has 17 locations, his lack of pushing Cal Spas has nothing to do with jets falling out a simple fact of the matter is that he is currently buying at better rates from another factory possibly getting some sort of flooring plan that costs nearly nothing. I tried to transfer a fifteen thousand dollar deal to him that I sold to one of the Broncos, who has a house in the Chicago area, and he was so arrogant he wouldnt even deliver it. So the Bronco had to go buy from him directly. I can surely imagine that the factory has got to have a plan to yank the line from this guy. The Avalon series is a rockin tub our response has been phenominal and people love it because theres so much to it yet the price is is a great value on every model. Hundreds of complaints about the factory or the dealer?
-
I know how you can tell if they are doing a lot of advertising: look in the paper, listen to the radio or watch local TV.
But what are you basing your claim that they are 'killing the competition?' Do you have some numbers, and of course, do you have some place we can go to verify those numbers?
I'm not trying to argue here - but if you are going to offer an opinion, make sure it is posted as an opinion. If you have some facts, share the site or other place we can go to verify those 'facts.'
Thank you.
I sit here and laugh at the very thought that someone even would think its possible for any factory to ever even produce that amount of spas a day, I can only wonder where that bogus lie came from , I will definately say that we absolutely positively sell more spas in Colorado and Minnesota than any other company out here, and yes sales are up, and yes we are advertising heavily. as far as prices being down thats just not so as we took a slight price increase in January. Oh and yes Hot Spring is still our number one competitor they do build a good product.
-
HMMMMM I think so, so let me get this streight, if your stealing a stereo dont walk if they are chasing you?
J/K Of course your exactly right, I dont know how and when the spa industry became a swapmeet , but evidentally if you go out and shop its back and forth like a poorly run used car lot.
-
It's not just lack of information that prohibits the final sale. More importantly, a consumer will not purchase if they can not determine value for the money. In our industry, it is a more difficult task due to the fact that most have never owned their own spa and have difficulty determining who has reinvented the wheel better!
It's the reason why many companies promote proprietary features that can't be found anywhere else.
There's 3 aspects to the sales process for a dealer and you need to at least one of these:
1) Be a "value priced" line undercutting most other dealers pricing
2) Promote your Brand with the understanding that there's value in it to "Joe Public"
3) Be positioned to sell a proprietary feature on your spas that can't be purchased anywhere else locally.
If you don't fit into any one of these categories, you are selling a product that does not stand apart from most other spas. That makes it very difficult for the prospect to see a value there and will limit the level of success of that retailer.
Steve
Definately! as everything on that spa has value. for instance if I were to mention that everyone of our jets are adjustable and my competitor fails to mention it, he missed an item that adds value (as small as it may be) I strongly believe in price integrity! too often I see salesmen in the industry giving away money to make a deal, instead of reitterating the value and reason for the higher costs. I strongly believe that if a salesman
knows that his product is worth what its tagged at and holds his ground and shows the value and reason for different costs, then your profit margins can stay stable without dropping your britches to buy a sale. Too often salesmen give away money to make a deal simply because its not their money they are giving, if a $500 drop will get the sale and theres nearly no penalty for the $500 to the salesman why wouldnt he give it away? If you take $250 of that $500 from the salesman how often will he drop? NEVER! Its all about integrity!
-
From where you are I would think you could simply coast all the way to Vegas on a bike.
cheapskate!
-
How do you apply what you know? Are you willing to learn more about your prospect? Are you willing to ask for the sale? Don't forget to smile and show some enthusiasm.
Come on now an old dog like me? all those things are as natural as breathing. Learning about your "prospects" is all part of qualifying them into their needs and wants.
-
How can you apply what you learn is the question.
I believe that its not the how but the what you apply, as I know a salesman that says almost nothing and spends most of his time looking at the cieling , looks and occasionally points and a feature of teh product, hands in pockets, throws in a laugh now and then but his numbers are very impressive. I tried his method and the consumers got offended. Another guy I know has the customer sold on our product by his presence and aura before even showing any spa , by that time its just a matter of which one. So they have applied the very elements that work with their personalities each being very different in style but both top performers when it comes to sales.Me myself I am a quick informative guy that qualifies them quickly offers them the deal at hand, and if they arent ready by that time then they dont have enough info. so I gotta find what it is that they need to know to make their decision to buy from me.
-
As the phone rang, I wondered, how would they react...
I had a crazy idea the other day. I thought, "I should get some sponsors for some of my products and programs." After all, I reach the same people they want to reach and if I can get them to offer my clients and readers a great deal, then everyone wins. There is only one problem:
Getting sponsors is difficult.
That's what I had been told. I've been to seminars on how to prepare a sponsorship proposal. They told us to expect rejection and warned us that these companies are inundated with those who are begging for their money.
That's not what I found!
After only a few calls, I found several major corporations who were honored to be asked to work with me and thrilled to have the opportunity to be our sponsor.
What's the lesson?
As sales people, we too often predict the outcome of a situation and adjust our behavior accordingly. We decide who to call and who not to call based on our assumptions of the outcome. There is one unmistakable truth in all of this: You will never make a sale to someone you decided not to call. (I know, that's not too profound.) But it's true!!!
Assume the best and act on the assumption.
Price Pritchett said, "Do what you would do if you knew you were going to succeed." If you knew the president of General Motors would agree to your $5M Proposal, you'd call him. Unfortunately, you are so certain he won't agree that you won't even risk the call.
Break your boundaries
Each of us has a comfort zone, beyond which we do not reach. Unfortunately, each of us has goals and aspiratrions that can most easily be achieved by reaching beyond that boundary. As you read this, what is your boundary? What is it that you should do that you are not doing because you are sure it won't work? GET DIALING DUCKY
not sure I understand, your point, as every company in the industry has "sales training" many who have been in the industry for a long length of time are very comfortable. So you typed all this for what? My theory is that the only reason consumers dont buy is because they dont have enough infromation to make the decision , Hence the salesman is obligated to educate them to that point where the consumer has enough info. that they say "write it up" if at any time the salesman stops providing valuable information and options, the consumer is obligated to find a reason to ask for walking papers, and thats when the excuses start to roll, "we have to measure" I call "Bu!!$h!T" how many people dont know how much room they have? unless its an impulse buy they darned well know how much space they have. Bottom line in sales is you know how to sell or you strive to learn and as their success rate increases they realise what it takes for their individual presentations to work , everyone is different and everyone sells product differently, so a text book lesson in sales in my opinion is helpful but not a tell all remedy that will make every saleperson successful. good luck guys!
-
I lock the door after the customers enter and swallow the key this usually keeps em in the store for 8 to 12 hours.
-
My sweet dear Cougar, I am not a moderator here. Nor do I have the ability to make any changes of any kind, other than to my own messages, here. I am however a moderator at one of the message boards where you consider "moderators do a great job in policing them" (as well as my own hot tub spa message board, and a number of boards of other topics............ what can I say, I'm a trusted message board addict
).I do now expect a pathetic appology in a foolish manner from you
As for you Stevie........... WTF is with that girlie "i" ??? Congrats on the new job! I can tell from your posts tonihgt you're feeling on top of the world. Seriously, I couldn't be happier for you! You now going to be at the Aqua show? My offer of a plane ticket for you is still good. I might even be able to swing the wife........... if she's cute (there's gotta be a garbage can lid joke here somewhere).
I have a hot wife as well, will ya fly us out too?
-
Yes, it is obvious he/she does not have full admin privs... or else he/she actually *approves* of the extraneous garbage posted. Killing guest posting is a great idea. At least their IP could be permanently banned.
The house has been cleaned so we may now become an informative board , no need to dwell on it stop whining and lets move on already.
-
Hi Shawn,
I'm an Arctic spa owner and know very little of the Cal Spas, but I do live in a very cold climate and I checked a couple of things before deciding.
Are the pumps, heaters and all the other expencive stuff inside the insulation, not in a vented engine room?
If you the breaker goes, and you are not there, how well is this equipment protected, will it get heat from the water or will this euipment be the first to freeze?
Walk on the cover with some of your friends, if you can't, the snow will break it. (thickness is not always the same as strength)
If you are putting it outdoors on the ground, be sure to have a good floor under it.
I also liked the ability to upgrade to more pumps and more jets or new technology if I wanted later.
I got dealers to unscrew the side panels of their cabinets, so I could use my own common sense to decide what seemed to be the better way to build for this cold climate.
I'm sorry I never checked Cal spa for you, but it seemed to me then putting a Californian spa in this climate did not make sense, but who knows?
So my advice is to not listen too much to the sales guys, unscrew and decide on what you already know about insulating and building for cold climates.
Certainly you guys arent suggesting that the Arctic cabinet is totally sealed, are you? When you utilise all the heated air in the cabinet thru your venturi's where does the air come from? The statement of putting a California made spa in cold climates is just ignorant as I live in Denver and the majority of tubs sold here are from California. In my opinion anyone who would even think of plumbing more jets later is a fool, theres too many variables , such as will the pump support such extra jets and still have the desired volume of water flow thru the jets? If the answer is no, then you must add another pump is the pack and topside equipped to handle such an add on? I would just upgrade at the time of purchase and let the manufacturers do the desired changes, as drilling holes in the field can be very tricky and if you mess that up you may end up turning your spa into a planter. Good luck!
-
Hi...
I've been researching hot tubs for my cabin for several weeks now and I have it narrowed down to two hot tubs, the Cal Spas Avalon (A826B) and the Arctic Yukon Prestige.
My first choice of spa is the Cal Spas Avalon based on price and features. I am looking for a hot tub that can seat lots of people and has a big open foot well. However, I am seriously looking at the Arctic Yukon because of it's supposed performance in cold weather. This hot tub is going to be sitting at a mostly vacant cabin in the Idaho mountains.
The Cal Spas Avalan looks like it comes with comparable insulation and it comes with a thicker cover than than the Arctic (5" vs. 4"). Also, the Cal Spa dealer I've heard is more reputable than the Arctic dealer in our area. I do hear more complaints about Cal Spas in general on the web, but that could be just because they are one of the more popular brands... I'm not sure.
Are the Arctic hot tubs really better than the Cal Spas Avalon in cold climates, or is it just marketing hype?
Thanks for your help!
Shawn
To myu surprise the Avalon series has taken off to an amazing start , sales have sky rocketed on this new product and I must admit I am not on efor change and sneered at the Avalon series but I gotta admit they perform very very well. Good luck! <<<Cal Spas Of Denver Employee
-
Actually the 502 is fairly large and does not overflow easily as the height was taken fron the foot well and not the top of the spa, if the 4 using the spa were very large there is potential for over flow, but I think in most cases theres no reason to be concerned about over flow. My customers who own this tub absolutely love it and I'm confident you will also. Good LucK!
-
Full foam is not a good thing. It is a way to save money in manufacturing and that is about all.
We sell a superior sound system for 875.00 We have had customers come and hear our system, change their minds on a sound system, after they hear the fidelity. When the put transducers in the water it is not good fidelity and it will probably cause ailments in people from having their organs bombarded with sound waves in the water. It has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard of to use powerful transducers in water to make sound.
HAHAHHAHHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHA! AILMENTS!!!!! HAHAHAHAHHA! WHAT A LINE OF CRAP!!! NEXT YOU WILL PROBABLY SAY FULL FOAM IS BAD INSULATION< OH WAIT!! HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA AILMENTS!! GOOD ONE JIM VERY FUNNY! I CANT STOP SHOUTING AND LAUGHING AT THIS STATEMENT!
-
And some home testing and a bit of speculation, add a little bending of those facts and stir....whatever it takes to sell spa's huh Jimmy.
I don't even want to address the rest of the post because my statement above says it all. Some spa that was overheating for you is the one that had the 120 degree air...now I get it, and it was summer time 70 degrees. Well lets just say they all do and use it to sell spa's. "Our spa's air blower is constantly blowing 120 degree air in the spa water to help keep you warm" You are so full of it Jim it's hilarious.
Roger, you do realise your arguing with one person dont you?
-
Roger you totally misinterpreted what I said. In fact I almost expected you to misinterpret it as this seems habitual for you. It is not Jim's statement I was ridiculing but yours! What you are trying to describe DOES NOT AND CAN NOT OCCUR IN JIM'S SPA OR ANYONE'S ELSE"S SPA BUILT WITH THAT DESIGN. Your statement is nothing but a predetermined falsehood of science period. Your theory will never work. Please do not allow your emotional disdain for someone to get in the way of proving what is or is not a fact. Like Lt. General Russell Honore recently stated, "Don't get stuck on stupid!" Your comments are based on your biased untested theory to dishonor someone elses collected imperical data. That is not how scientists prove a fact. In science a fact should be able to be reproduced. Therefore your statement cannot be true.
I ask: How many profiles is one person allowed on this forum?
-
Agreed, this is why I have such a hard time understanding Jim and his statements.
Jim Said;
The air entering the blower is over 120degrees. When it compresses it does get hotter, when it decompresses it is not below 120 degrees, because it gained heat along the way. All other spas do not control the path of the air inside their cabinet.
And I asked how many cubic feet of air was inside his cabinet, I was also going to ask how many cubic feet of air his blower moves. This was leading to, and I will use some made up numbers here because he won't answer questions when asked. If there is 50 cubic feet of air inside the cabinet (that is warm because of the pump motor heating it. Then you turn on the blower and it moves 100 cubic feet of air a minute. in 30 seconds all your warm or as Jim says 120 degree air is gone. Then outside air must be used to replace the 120 degree air inside the cabinet, or the cabinet will be sucked into itself, lets just say this outside air is 10 degrees. Somehow it comes in the cabinet goes past the pump motor (yes duct work can direct past the motor which is running 120 degrees) but it goes by fast because it is getting sucked into the air blower and it somehow gets to 120 degrees. That's a 110 degree heat cycle in a matter of less than a second, very difficult to do even with air, which heats faster than just about any substance (theres a few that are faster). But it would take a more than red hot surface to heat air that quickly when it is moving past at the speed the blower moves air. And I don't think his motors run red hot, or maybe they do!!
Maybe no one else wants to call him on this stuff but I will always. And I do not know what or how he does the things he says his tub design does and frankly I don't care. This is not science it is common sense.
Roger well written and understood! He is so confused by this that he actually believes he's right. He seems to want us to think you don't have to replace the air in the cabinet from an outside source, when all reality thats the only place to get the replacement air, and of course there's no possible way to instantly heat that outside air. This being the reason almost all manufactures have steered away from the air blower, unless it is a heated air blower and thats a whole different story. But you my friend are right on the mark. Anyone checked the ETL website for a listing recently? I can save ya time its not there.
-
I service every brand of spa. I am an authorized service center for, Master, Vita, Cal, D1, Marquis, Emerald,
if it has Balboa I know it, if it has Brett I know it. If its in the midwest I probably know it. I am a service consultant for several dealers in my area. I have worked sales and was good at it. If you have ANY service questions I can answer them without bias.
Also I want to apologize for getting "caught up" in the argument, thats not what this forum is for, I have no excuse. I'm sorry.
That being said, I am unable to promise that I won't get caught up again.
As my wife once told me, "its easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission" so I'm sure that I'll be asking forgiveness again
Thank You
DOC, You forgot profesional spa /hottub litigation witness!
If you want to be unconfused, then you need to get a copy of my book. You need to read the information at
Most readers consider it to be a "breath of fresh air" compared to the nonsense from spa sales guys.
No Jim this kind of advcertising is forbidden here but you do it anyway?
There you will find the truth and truly great products or try ]
-
<H1 align=center>Re: Winter and Freeze Damage</H1>
Posted By: David S (ool-43555534.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: Thursday, 24 November 2005, at 2:45 p.m.
In Response To: Winter and Freeze Damage (Jim Arjuna) This is my first winter with my SCF. A put a remote temperature sensor inside the cabinet and it transmits to a receiver in the house. The whole thing was $20 at Home Depo. I figured it would be a good way to be sure the spa was running since I don't check it every day. What I see so far is that when it is about 40 degrees outside it is a toasty 82-88 degrees in the cabinet.
=================================================================
82 = 100%?
He now claims the spa to be defective! HAHAHAHHAHAHA! Arent they all?
-
There is no rant, never has been. I just state the obvious. I have been in the spa industry as well as several other high tech fields. I don't like flim flam and I don't like cheap products being sold as if they had value, especially when they don't follow the safety standards of the United States.
I started in the spa industry in service. I have participated in warranty serivice for 16 different brands of spas, some of those brands are touted on this board.
I can remember the first time I was confronted with a really upset spa owner, who basically told me: "We didn't know. The spa salesman told me it was the best spa made." This was a customer with nearly $2500 in repair damage to the spa to get it to work correctly. It basically was falling apart in 4 years.
That nice couple was the inspiration for my book, "How Spas Are Made", which started as a bunch of hand outs for spa owners with service issues, then I started giving them to spa shoppers so they could avoid situations such as that couple had to contend with.
There is a lot of pure BS in the spa industry, and some of it is products designed 30years ago with antique engineering.
Why not go buy a car with two ply cotton cord tires with a 1500 mile warranty, and no seat belts? That is how I compare some of this stuff being sold.
He cant help himself! EKE I am sorry for posting here but my hats off to you for seeing thru the bullstuff. Good luck to you and which ever spa you chose.
-SpaMan~
Dimension One Diplomat
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
Did you buy it? You should have it was a great deal!