Moonbeam

Thanks alot! Re: 3 teaspoons working for us - I think we have been under chlorinating, more so when we have stayed in longer... even so the water is clear! If you know that there is no or very little chlorine in the spa, if we added 1/2 teaspoon to the water how long should we wait to get in the spa, so that it is better for our health? (I'd rather put in chlorine than get a bug from not having any in there...) I'll get the percentages re lithium chlorine ALGICIDE (http://services.apvma.gov.au/PubcrisWebClient/details.do?view=general&pcode=57945) (350g/kg of Cl) and Cyanuric Acid tomorrow (it doesn't say on the container it just says that it contains Cyanuric Acid) - it's a public holiday today. The container says Required levels: Spa Pool (under 40 degrees C) Level of stabiliser - Do not use stabiliser Total Alkal - 60 - 200 mg/L Min Free Chlorine - Below 26 C = 2 Above 26 C = 4 Ph Optimum - 7.2 to 7.8 (Do not exceed a concentration of 50mg/L of isocyanurate) Natasha

We soak for max 1 hr each or 30 minutes. I will find out the strength of a good chlorine bleach that I could get in bulk and then would you be able to tell me the approx amount to put in for two adults in the ozonated spa once a day for 1hr each? If we just use bleach do we just test it with the dropper kit? and add vinegar or carb soda depending on PH, acid & alk levels? Cyanuric Acid is already in the Lithium Chlorine we use at the moment - I don't know how much - I'll have a look on the container tomorrow... When you mentioned above: that you start out after a fresh refill with Cyanuric acid, how much would you put in to a 1900 litre spa? Is Cyanuric acid like vinegar? Do you have to add more Cyanuric acid later and would you start a fresh spa refill every 3 months? and change the filters how often? And what is Dichlor (Is it the same as the Ospa Lithium Chlorine that we are using at the moment? or would we just finish the Lithium Chlorine and then begin using the cheaper option - chlorine bleach! - sorry I am a bit confused - my husband does not understand either... Health wise, is bleach better or the same as the Lithium Chlorine and Cyanuric acid that we are using now? Also when mentioned above: (Lithium Hypochlorite is equivalent to 2-3/4 fluid ounces (80 ml) of 6% chlorine bleach. Does that help?) We do not know what you mean? Sorry... (Hopefully my questions are not silly...) We really appreciate all your help in this, let me know if my question's are becoming to much of a hassle! Natasha

King Neptune Ozone Accelerator is hydrogen peroxide as listed here. Note that hydrogen peroxide is NOT compatible with chlorine, bromine, or most non-chlorine oxidizers (e.g. potassium monopersulfate, MPS). This is because hydrogen peroxide is not only an oxidizer, but also a reducing agent with respect to these other oxidizers. Hydrogen peroxide can, in fact, be used to dechlorinate a spa. So you most definitely do not want to use Ozone Accelerator if you plan to continue to use chlorine (or bromine or copper/silver/MPS). I believe you mean Lithium Hypochlorite, not Lithium Chloride, right? Lithium Hypochlorite is very expensive, but essentially the same as using bleach which is Sodium Hypochlorite. So it's up to you whether the convenience of adding a more concentrated powder is worth being over 5 times more expensive to get the same Free Chlorine level (as described in this post). It sounds like you are buying in bulk so the extra cost isn't a big deal. If you are only using lithium hypochlorite without first using some Dichlor after a fresh refill (or otherwise adding Cyanuric Acid, CYA, to the water), then you are over-chlorinating your spa. Without any CYA, the chlorine from a hypochlorite source will be too strong. The only reason you might have noticed more of a smell with another source of chlorine is that you used more of it in terms of the Free Chlorine (FC) level than you thought so were then able to smell it. You should probably use Dichlor for around 1 week before switching to Lithium Hypochlorite or bleach. Your swimsuits will last longer, the chlorine will also last longer, and you'll be able to use the proper amount without smelling it. If you don't have an ozonator, then a rough rule-of-thumb for how much oxidizer is needed to get rid of bather waste after a soak is that every person-hour of soaking in a hot (104F) tub needs around 3-1/2 teaspoons (17 grams or ml) of Dichlor, 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach, 7 teaspoons of 43% MPS, or 5-1/2 teaspoons (26 grams) of Lithium Hypochlorite. The real rule, however, is to use whatever amount of oxidizer after a soak that is needed to still measure at least a 1-2 ppm FC residual before the next soak. Your 3 teaspoons would be enough to handle around a half-hour of one person soaking (if there were no ozonator). With two of you soaking, then unless it's a quick 15 minute soak, you are probably not using enough oxidizer. Do you measure an FC reading before your next soak? Do you have an ozonator? Richard Yes we have an ozonator in our Miami III (Holds 1900 LITRES) spa - with a continuous circulation pump (http://www.signaturespaswa.com.au/signature_range.html) we have only been using (http://www.cookespoolsandspas.com.au/chemicals.htm) the Ospa Lithium Chlorine Lithium hypochlorite (NOT Lithium Chloride!!! lol) I was only asking about the King Neptune Ozone Accelerator as friends were about to use it and said that it was good? I wanted to do my homework if we decided to switch from the Lithium Chlorine (Great so far.... 10 kg at $340 AU$ - is this good compared to household bleach that I think? Waterbear was suggesting along with other things to maintain alk & PH...?) which contains chlorine stabiliser (Cyanuric Acid). So if we 2 of us are in the spa for 30 min with an ozonator - is 3 teaspoons enough if the temperature is around 36 degrees and comes down to around 31 degrees through the night...? We don't test the water enough we have a dropper test kit but it doesn't test the chlorine level with drops just a little tablet which we have run out of... We have a 10 month baby and sometimes have him in the spa with us - so I want to make sure I am more diligent and have the correct sanitizer amount and not too much to hurt him/us either... When I see or smell that perhaps the water has been too hot for too long and has used all the chlorine much quicker than usual I put some household white vinegar (acid) in and wait about 6 hrs to put some more Lithium chlorine later to shock it if it starts to look a bit cloudy... mostly we do not have problems only if we don't go in the spa every night and then forget to put teaspoons in anyway... don't need to do this if the temp was around 30 degrees over that time... We use the vinegar every now an again to bring down the PH so that the sanitizer remains a good level... I still haven't understood the amounts above re using normal bleach and until I do I won't switch to the cheaper option - if it is cheaper than the Ospa Lithium Chlorine with Cyanuric Acid oxidiser. What do you think? Thank you Richard for your reply I appreciate it and still haven't got my hubby to read through it with me so I understand, but will do as soon as I can. I will have to check re ounces and %'s etc as I use mls and grams and will need to convert... my math is atrocious Natasha

Here they are (and they are exactly the same products you get at the pool/spa supply store! For sanitation it is liquid chlorine (for those of you using bromine this is your oxidizer or shock) AKA sodium hypochlorite AKA plain, unscented laundry bleach--either regular or ultra strength. Total Alkalinity increaser aka sodium bicarbonate aka sodium hydrogen carbonate aka baking soda pH increaser aka sodium carbonate aka washing soda ( in the laundry aise) BUT this will also raise your total alkalinity so a better choice for raising pH without having an impact on total alkalinity is: Sodiium Tetraborate aka borax (the 20 mule team stuff) which is sold by some pool and spa products companies as a 'water enchancer' for a lot of money. When added to a 30-50 ppm concentration it acts as an algaestat, pH buffer, and helps reduce sanitizer demand (YES, it really works--I use it in my pool and my spa!) It is, IMHO, the best choice for raising pH without sending your other water parameters out of whack! If you water is very soft you might need calcium hardness increaser--here is a little secret. Most of it is made by Dow Chemical and repackaged! Dow sells it as Dowflake and in pellet form and it is often available in hardware stores as a road de icer! It is EXACTLY the same stuff sold for much more money in the pool and supply stores! Just calcium chloride! The Dow website had a page that listed this as the product (along with their pellet form of calcium chloride) that is recommeded for pool and spa use! You still need to get pH decreaser (dry acid AKA sodium bisulfate) from the supply store or your neighborhood, Home Depot, Walmart, Lowes, Ace Hardware, etc. and if you are using bromine you still need the sodium bromide and possibly bromine tablets if you are doing a 3-step bromine system. If you are using chlorine you might possibly need a small amount of cyanuric acid (stablizer) or you might want to initially chlorinate with dichlor (which contains stabilzier) until a small amount builds up in the water on each refill. This can help prevent the chlorine from burning off in sunlight but too much will prevent the chlorine from being an effective sanitizer! (IMHO, I would NOT let the CYA go above about 20-30 ppm.) The only other product you might need is a metal sequesterant if your fill water tests positive for metals or if your have very hard water. You DO NOT NEED algaecides, defoamers, clarifiers, enzymes, or phospahte removers if you are maintaining your water. These products can cover up problems for a while but do not cure them so if you have a regular need for them then you are not properly caring for your water. Finally there is one product that is an absolute MUST HAVE: A good drop based test kit used weekly. Strips just don't have the precision needed for making water balance adjustments (but are fine for a quick check on a daily basis to see if you need to drag out the test kit). When I say a good drop based kit I mean a kit such as the Taylor K-2006 for chlorine systems and a K-2106 for bromine systems. Many people seem to think that about $60 is too much to spend on a test kit but when you consider the thousands of dollars your spa cost it really isn't and a good kit will make your testing easy and your water care even easier. If you don't believe me just do one chlorine or bromine test with the FAS-DPD test included in the kits above and see if it isn't easier than the standard DPD tests included in most other kits (if you are testing chlorine or bromine with OTO then you have a cheapie kit!) Also you will find that you can read the results and there is no gussing what color on the comparator or test strip it really is! I'm new to posting so hopefully... I am posting the right way? I have read through your list and will hopefully digest (figuratively speaking!) it better with the help of my husband though in the mean time I wanted to ask about the product Ozone Accelerator by King Neptune (we live in Australia) friends have just bought it and it sounds like it might be just another expensive form of bleach so I thought to ask if anyone has heard of this or uses it? (As I think the active ingredient is hydrogen peroxide) My husband and I have been buying Lithium Chloride (bought it in bulk) which has been working for us so far (2 years)... is Bleach better than this? Our spa holds nearly 2000 litres and my husband and I go in once a day approx. using about 3 teaspoons of this after each use. The only thing I'm not sure about is that Lithium Chloride is more for cold water - I think? The other reason we have been using this product is that you cannot smell the chlorine so much as normal chlorine. Also it isn't expensive especially as we bought it in bulk 10 kilos - I think?) So far it has lasted us 2 years+