Brookdog

It may have been, because it hasn't come back since. I seem to have gotten a hold on the FC. It's staying up around 3-5 now for about a day. Do you guys add bleach every day, whether you use the spa or not? I'm thinking it would be about 3oz per day with no usage and about 5oz if you do. I'm still waiting for the new reagents to come in the mail. I should be able to take better readings rather than using the strips. Thanks for the replys... and all the great info I get from this forum.

We just changed from bromine to clorine and we all think the clorine water seems more bouyant than the bromine water. It also appears to magnify more than the bromine. Anyone else notice this? Maybe the heat is going to my head....

I just switched from bromine to clorine and have a bunch of questions. I will ask the big ones here and start a new topic for the other ones. I have a MS Down East Cape Cod spa that holds 425 gallons kept at 102 degrees. The jets shoot water and air so I have no way to use just water, only both. I was using bromine, but my wife had some issues with sensitivity so I decided to change. The good news is that she hasn't had any problems after soaking twice now in the new clorine water! The bad news is the FC is dropping to 0 after only a short time. I did an abbreviated decon (because I had just did a full decon with Spa Purge and bleach back in December) on the bromine water by just adding 40 oz of bleach and letting that cycle for about 30 minutes and drained it out. I wiped down the cover and the entire tub with the bleach water during the drain. I refilled the tub with well water through a canister house filter and let that run for about 30 minutes before draining that water out. I then refilled it again and started to balance the water. New water numbers were: pH=6.8 TA=40 CH=80 I added 8oz of Metal out during the fill and 7oz of Calcium Boost after the first test. I then added 1.5oz baking soda for the TA. 30 minutes later I added 28oz of 20 Mule Team Borax and 14oz of Muratic acid (hydrochloric acid 20 baume/31.45%) and let that run for a while. The CH was at 120, the TA was at 80 and the pH was around 7.8, so I added 1oz if Dichlor and let that simmer over night. In the morning, the FC (tested with strips [yeah, I know, the new reagents are on the way]) was at 0! Nitro said it should be 5-7 for a good CD, so I'm was little worried. The TA was 100 and pH was 7.8. I added 2oz of MA and 1oz of Dichlor. I tested the FC 30 minutes later and it was at 10. Just after noon, the FC tested at 1, so I added 1oz of Dichlor (now 27 ppm CYA?) because I didn't want the FC to go to 0. I added 3oz Calcium boost which brought the CH to about 170. Tested 5 hours later, FC=5, TA=60 and pH=7.4 so we went for a soak, 3 people for 30 minutes. Tested after the soak, FC=.5, pH=7.2, TA=80 and we noticed an orange/tan bio-ring had formed with the jets on. I added 1/2oz Dichlor (now32 ppm CYA?) and 3oz bleach. The next day I tested in the evening, FC=0 again. Added 5oz bleach (6.25%) at 6:00pm. Tested at 9:00pm, FC=1. Got pissed. Should have written here earlier. Added 1.5oz Dichlor and went to bed. This morning, FC=10, pH=7.2, TA=70, CYA=30-50 (strips again). Ran the jets to up the pH and wiped down the bio-ring that happened after the soak with 2oz of Enzyme in 2 cups of tub water. Worked pretty well. Tested again tonight, FC=0, pH=7.8, TA=80 CH=170+/-. Added 5oz bleach and 1oz MA and wrote this letter. Sorry it's so long, but I was just getting used to the bromine and now I'm unsure if I'm doing this correctly. Should I have flushed the tub before deconing with bleach to kill the bromine? Should I do it now? Does it sound right that the FC keeps dropping to 0? With the bromine spa, a CH of 150 and a TA of 50-60 kept the pH pretty steady around 7.6-7.8. Should I try for those numbers again with the clorine? I think I can stop using the Dichlor now, (reagents are on the way for more accurate testing of CYA) but does the spa need bleach every day, even with no use? Thanks for reading my novella and please let me know if you have any input for this clorine newbie!

Thanks QCD and chem geek. Talking to my wife, it seems she has other reactions to sulfates; like headaches after drinking wine. So, I guess I need to get away from the sulfates. I just was starting to get a grip on the whole bromine thing... Now I will need to read up on the clorine way to sanitize. I like simple, like everyone else. Should I look at the BBB method or is there any other? Is the BBB method sulfate free? I need to get the new Taylor kit, so I will stay with the bromine until it comes in. Anyone need some Brom Tabs and OZ tabs??? Thanks again.... I'll be back after the switch to clorine.

Yes, I did add 2 oz of sodium bromide after the last refill, so I'm thinkinig that the sanitizer levels are in order. I can try using Clorox to shock instead of the MPS. I think Chem Geek recomends 5oz of 6% per person hour. Will this reactivate the bromine, or am I turning towards a clorine spa? Any idea how long it takes for the MPS to be out of the water? Can I still measure the sanitizer with my Taylor 2106 kit? What about CYA? Should I just drain and refill as a clorine spa? I will get some muratic acid and use that for the pH decrease adjustment. Thanks again for all your help.

Thank you both for your replies. To answer QCD's questions, we got the tub in December. I neglected to flush the tub first, and just washed it and filled it up. During the first week, wifey complained of sensitivity and went on treatment for a UTI. I thought (knew) it was contaminated, so I drained, flushed and deconed the tub. She stayed out because we were going on vacation. When we got back last week she went in again and felt the discomfort again. I am using Leisure Time products, Brom Tabs, that are 1-bromo 3-chloro5, 5 dimeth--- 60%, 1,3 dichloro-5, 5-dimeth--- 27.4%, 1,3 dichloro-5, 5ethyl-5-methylhdantoin 10.6%. Are these the BCDMH tabs? I use the Leisure TIme OZ shock tabs for ozone spas, Potassium Peroxymonosulfate 32.25%. I throw in 4 tabs after about 1 man hour of soak time. Always after, not before a soak. I can try draining and refilling but it is not the best time of the year. When I do, you suggest not to use dry acid. Would that mean using muratic acid to lower the pH? I would prefer not to use the liquid acid if possible. I have powdered sodium bisulfate and liquid sodium bisulfate at 27%. I use alk increase that is sodium hydrogen carbonate at 100%. Can I still use the Borax on the new refill? I didn't have any in the first fill, so I don't think that is a problem. Is it proper to put 1-2 brom tabs in the floater each week to keep a reserve and to shock after use to oxidize? Does the shock revive the bromine level? I haven't looked to see, but will the bromine level go up just by adding the OZ tabs or do I have to increase the brom tabs in the floater. Thanks for all your help. It's coming slowly, but I think I'm getting this balance thing....

We have a hot tub sanitized with bromine and MSP using the 3 step method. After adding Borax a few weeks ago, I am able to keep the pH around 7.5 to 7.8, the TA is at 50 and the Br fluctuates from 1 to 5 with the CA at 150 with not much work. My problem and question is that my wife experienced a burning sensation in her woman areas after having a soak this weekend. She hadn't been in for a couple weeks because we were away for a while, but noticed it shortly after getting out. Neither my daughter or myself have had any discomfort from the spa and we use it 3-4 time a week. Is it possible that she could be sensitive to bromine? Could it be the temp of the spa (102)? How could we test to see if it the bromine or maybe some other issue with the hot tub? I did a Spa Purge and decon a month ago and the spa seems to look and smell fine. Maybe we could ask to use someone elses spa, both bromine and clorine, and see if they are irritating to her. Could I add some bromine salts to the bath tub and see if that bothers her? I hate to experiment using my wife, but I don't know where to go from here. Thanks for any advice you might have.

To answer Hillbillys questions, Yes, I had the filters out and soaked the large filter over night in Robar EZ Filter Cleaner. The small, Eco-Pur filter I just rinsed well and left in a bucket of clean water. In the morning, I rinsed the filter well with a hose. After draining the Spa Purge, I did put the filters back in, according to Nitro's Decon procedure while running the spa with the bleach water. I did rinse them again after draining the bleach and refilling. Maybe some residual schmeg was still in them, but I thought they were pretty clean. I'm not using the Renew/Reserve any more, I switched to the 3 step method. I brought a sample to a spa store and they tested it. She said "There is no bromine or clorine reading, the pH was about 6.8, the TA was about 40 and the CH was about 200". She used test strips, not the computer test my usual spa store uses. I don't know if the strips were old or what, but she suggested TA up and pH up. So much for test strips. I got home this evening and tested one more time. This test results are: Br=11 ! Yes! pH=7.8 TA=50 CH=120 Either the Green Meanies are done chomping on my bromines or I just had to wait until the bromine bank was set. Either way, I will wait until the morning and test it again and see if I can keep a residual before I add any more MSP. I have a aching desire to fiddle with the TA or the calcium to try and get my SI closer to 0, but I think I should take it slow and see how things level out. Does anyone know how long it takes for bad things to happen to your heater if the pH is too low? Is a day or so OK? What about if the pH is too high? Are we talking hours here or days? Thanks again for everyones help!

I did some reading in the forum about bromine and found someone who said the 3/4 cup of 6% bleach in 350 gallons would activate the bromine. I added 8oz of 5.25% for 425 gallons after lunch yesterday and let that run for a while. Funny, after adding the bleach, the spa sort of smelled like the pools/water rides at Disney. You know, not like the local town pool, but kind of clean and inviting. I guess that's why I like the bromine. But, I digress... At dinner time, the test samples looked like this: Br=11 pH=7.8 TA=50 CH=120 I'm thinking, Way too much bleach! I took the floater out and let it ride for the night. This morning, the test shows: Br=0!!! pH=7.5 TA=50 CH=120 I used a test strip from the Aquatest bottle and the Br was very yellow (0), pH ~7.2, TA ~50 and CH was a little over 100. I can now attest to the higher accuracy of the drop tests. When I test for Br with the drop test, the water turns a very, very light pink, almost un-noticable, when I add the powder. I did use this Taylor kit before the drain/fill and was able to read a bromine level, so I'm pretty sure the kit and my methods are correct. I'm going to bring a sample to the spa store and see what they have to say. The folks there seem pretty knowledgeable, but I would still like to hear what the guys here think about this. Should I raise the CH a little? That might help with my SI. I might look into Borax, to help stablize the pH. Should I try and raise the TA? I know Nitro says to leave it where the pH is stable, but is this too low? Another question, though... If I'm shocking the spa with MPS and bleach, is it alright to use the spa, even though there isn't any bromine measurment? Thanks again for all the help. I'm just trying to get this figured out so we can use the spa again. It's like getting a new car for Christmas and not having any gas!

Thank you all for your replys. I hope to someday be as knowledgeable and comfortable as you guys with this stuff. Last night, I added 4 oz of the Reserve and let that run for 15-20 minutes. Then I added 1 oz (all by volume) of the dry acid and let that run. After 15 minutes, I added 1 oz of Sani-Shock (Calcium Hypochlorite 47.6%), because I was worried that there wasn't any sanitizer in the spa and it might activate the bromine, and called it a night. This morning, my levels looked like this: Br=0! pH=8 needing 1 drop for 7.6 TA=60 CH=110 So, I added 3/4 oz of acid and let that run for 15 minutes. ph=7.5 TA=50 CH=120 I then added 5 OXY tabs, crushed up, and let that run for 15 minutes. Br still =0! pH=7.5 - stable! TA=50 - Low? CH=120 This gives me a SI of -0.4. I think I need to change something. Any idea why my Br is still at 0? Should I add some (how much?) bleach to try and activate it? I'm starting to second guess myself as to whether I put the Sodium Bromide in at all, but I know I did. Would it be bad to add more? I'm getting a grip on the pH and TA (thanks for the info), but I am lost on the Bromide. Any other advice would be great. Thanks.....

We just got a new 425 gallon spa about a month ago. The spa came with a 24/7 ozonator and a 24/7 circulation pump. It has 3 pumps for the different jets, but there is no 'air' control. When I opened it the first time, we just washed the inside and filled it up. This turned out to be a big mistake because the spa would always foam up, even though I put Foam Away products in every day. The spa came with the Renew/Release products for a bromine spa. I thought I followed the label directions correctly, but was never really able to get very much of a bromine reading on the test strips. When the free sample starter kit ran out, I switched over to Sodium Bromine (99%) and a floater with Leisure Time Brom Tabs (the ingredients are too long to list, but I think it's BCDMH+DCDMH+DCEMH). I also have been using OZ tabs (32.25% Potassium Peroxymonosulfate) for shock treatment. And I ordered the Taylor K-2106 testing kit. I could keep the bromine levels in the 2-4 range for about a week or so by adjusting the floater setting and adding 3-4 OZ tabs every 5-6 days, but the pH was always high, 8+ and the TA was low, 80-90 with a CA of about 250 (raised up because I thought it would help the foaming problem). Well, Tuesday was going to be the last nice day of the forseeable future, so on Monday night, I added one liter of Spa Purge and let the spa cycle overnight to start the Decontamination process. Tuesday morning, I drained the spa and refilled with fresh well water. I have a whole house filter that just filters out fine particles, not a softener. After it was full, I added about 40 oz of 5.25% bleach and let that run for 4 pump/jet cycles, each lasting about 15 minutes. I forgot to check and balance the pH/TA before adding the bleach, so I added some Baking soda because the test strip showed high pH and low TA. After each cycle, there was a brown/tan build-up at the water line that I kept wiping off. That seems to have been my foaming problem. I drained the bleach water, after washing down the cover and the entire tub, and refilled with new water. I added 8 ozs of Metal X during the fill. I then checked the initial readings with the Taylor kit. pH=7.6 TA=70 CA=70 I check with the Pool Calculator and added 2 ozs of Baking Soda, waited 15 minutes and then added 5 ozs of Calcium Boost. Four hours later the test results were: pH=8.0 TA=100 CA=120 I left th pH and TA alone for now and added 2 ozs of Sodium Bromide (99%), put 5 Brom Tabs in the Brilliance floater set at 2 and threw 5 OZ tabs in the spa and started the pumps. I also added 2 ozs of Enzyme and 1 oz of Bright and Clear, pretty much all of the above within 15 minutes. Let the pumps run for 15 minutes and closed it up for the night. This morning, my reading are a little suprising: Br=0 even after adding 4 scoops of power to the test pH=8+ needing 2 drops to get to 7.4-7.5 TA=90 CA=110 The good news is the foaming is gone. Nice clear water with just a normal amount of bubbles. I do notice a small bromine (maybe ozone) smell when I open the top, but don't understand why the bromine test comes up as zero. My main questions are: Does it sound like I have done things right so far? Why don't I have a measurable bromine level? Should I add more Sodium Bromide? Should I add more MPS tabs? What can I do with the leftover Reserve Sodium Bromide (32.18%)? Sorry for the long post, but I know you folks like to get as much info as possible. I have been reading alot on the forum and appreciate the advice I have already received. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.