apeter2000

===================================================================== As I have said These covers are being made with PVC that ie not UV stabilized. After 2 years they develop a surface craze, a darker color and a burnt smell, all as a result of plasticizer loss along with little or no UV stabilizer. Find a roofer that sells a white PVC roofing sheet and cover your cover just weight it down. PVC 30 mill white works fine.

===================================================================== Somebody needs to offer a PVC - UV stabilized cover -- The material offered is not stabilized from what I have seen. I use a white PVC roofing sheet loose layed and weighted down. I NEED a water fall valve for a Platinum Model 2020 item 12 on the spec sheet. No luck getting though to them by phone yet.

I have a pretty good understanding of statistics, in my world we deal with it daily. You are completely right about the sample, 0 or 1 means nothing - in a statistical sense. But your "statistics" mean nothing as well, because they aren't statistics. They are your guesstimates. I've also seen guesstimates that say 95% of "top quality spas" are "still in service" after 10 years. It would be great if you had some data.... that would mean something. But you don't. 95%, without, say, real survey data, is just a number that you like to trot out to underscore your position. A single owner report is not statistical. I have NEVER seen any owner cite statistics. I certainly never have. An individual's report doesn't address statistical performance, quality and/or longevity, standard deviation, mean time to failure, or anything else that is statistical. No one is claiming it does. What is DOES do is establish that the design is satisfactory to that particular owner and the thing works well when new. Since there are NO real statistics, one must form one's opinion based on other information. Your opinion might matter to some. To others, it might not since you might be perceived to have an agenda. For those like me, I keep going back to the notion that these things are simple beasts with more or less industry standard parts. You guys counter that with the "some standard parts are better than others". That might well be right.... but again, there's no data to verify failure rates... so it's all just blah-blah-blah. I think one would have to suffer from a basic lack of intelligence to spend a 100% premium based on blah-blah-blah. Some people pay $200 for a pair of designer jeans, too. To each his own. And, I acknowledge that you could be totally correct. Hasn't been proven though - either by statistics or by a preponderance of evidence. Fact is that MY experience, along with the OP in this thread says we haven't had ANY component failures in combined 7 years between us. That, sir, is INDISPUTABLE, even if not statistical. Add in the failure-free hours logged by Ken Gorman and some of the many other posters. Still, I agree it is not statitical. It DOES say that there is probably NOT any intrinsic design flaws that guarantee that these things will fall apart after a few years, as is claimed by industry types. Statistics don't exist to validate or negate your point. Argue all day if you like.... but there aren't any statistics. Would be nice if there were. Might prove your point. Might disprove it, too. If they do fall apart, they go back for a refund. No risk to the Customer. That's the bottom line. But I sure seem to see a lot of threads on this (and other) forums about all manner of problems people are having with their overpriced, undervalued "top quality" spas. They can't go back, now can they? Bet you won't address that, other than your guesstimated statistics. But ok, let's not waste the time to debate this for the umpteenth time. You industry guys have your position. I think many of you have an agenda. I KNOW that I don't have an agenda. I am not going to change your mind, nor do I care to. You could, however change my mind... if you had some real data. When you come up with some, I'm interested. What I would like to hear from you is what you think of the post that said that the OP wouldn't be able to get parts for his Hydro. I'm not interested in your thoughts on whether he was right... I owned a Hydro, and I know that the parts are all standard stuff. What I want to hear from you is why, if you industry guys are so interested in giving consumers the truth, you ALL didn't jump on this as false and misleading information?