n1oty
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Posts posted by n1oty
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I believe the 1999 models have the IQ2000 boards, not the IQ2020. As such, there should not be a heater relay board. It should have separate relays.
John
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Check for poor or no water flow through the heater also.
John
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Five feet is the rule, but shorter distances can be code compliant if there is a blocking wall between the tub and the disconnect. The intent of the rule is to prevent someone inside the tub from doing something stupid.
John
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I agree with everything Chas has posted here, but want to add one piece of advice. When refilling your tub, pull the filters and guide rods (they thread in and out), then fill the tub for at least a few minutes through each suction fitting. This seems to help the priming process very well.
John
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Yes - you can cap the line, and yes, it may mold up. I have put a cap on dozens over the years, and I usually put a small bleed line of some sort. Either I add a simple hose bib so water may be drained out of the air system when doing a water change, or I glue in a small adapter and tap a vinyl tube over to a jet line. That will push a small amount of water through the air system whenever the jets run, and keeps the water fresh.
Chas, I am going to disagree with your advice in this thread. Going without a blower for a short duration is not a problem, but long term stagnant water in the air channel can be a health hazard. The whole purpose of daily purge mode is to expel the stagnant water in the air channel into the main body of chemically treated water. When the blower shuts back off, chemically treated water backfills the air channel.
John
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I've seen a number of the Infinity tubs crack and consistently recommend against trying to repair these pieces of junk. I agree with Chas that the best course is probably to get whatever help you can from the dealer in replacing the tub.
John
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Stuck relay.
John
I doubt it would consistently maintain a temp to within ~4 with a stuck relay.
Re-read the OP's last post. The tub is NOT within a few degrees of set point. He stated that he set the temp to 80, the water temp is actually 104 to 108 and the display is reading the temp as 104 to 108. That sure sounds like a Coleman Horizon 400 that is cycling on the high limit sensor. A stuck relay is easy to check.
John
lol- re-read my reply. I said it wouldn't maintain "a" temp to within 4 degrees, not the set temp. I never say never, but it's highly unlikely a stuck heater relay is going to have that kind of consistency to maintain a temp, then still be able to open and close that for any length of time and maintain that temp. ( Even when that temp is much higher than the set temp- the consistency is what's remarkable)
If it's stuck, and stays shut to reach 108, assuming it gets "unstuck" by itself, how does it close again at 104, while it's set at 80, to reach 108, at which point it opens again, over and over? I didn't read that it was going into overheat protection mode- maybe I'm missing something here.
The mistake you are making is assuming that the relay that normally opens and closes to turn the heater on and off is the one that is opening at 108 degrees. The high limit relays normally stay closed at all times and only open on a signal of 108 or 109 degrees. One high limit relay opens if excessive temp is detected by the temp sensor. The other high limit relay opens if excessive temperature is detected by the high limit sensor. I suspect that one of the limit relays is actually opening, then resetting when the tub drops into a normal range (104 or less), at which point the heat runs away again because the normal temperature relay is stuck. Newer firmware tubs will not often reset themselves, but older tubs like this will automatically reset the limits once temp drops to 104 or less.
This older board probably has open relays and the stuck relay, if stuck, will be readily observed by shutting off power to the tub and visually checking for stuck contacts. On boards with closed relays, check for continuity from "common" to "normally open" with the power off. Any relay with continuity from C to NO with power off is stuck.
John
That fits, but I thought it would throw an overheat code in that situation?
Newer board firmware, yes. The OP indicates that this is a Coleman Horizon 400 that is at least 10 years old. It may, in fact, be closer to 15 years old as the model was prevalent from the mid 90's to around 2000 or so. Some of those old Coleman boards would not throw a typical "OH" code, especially if it is a 200r1a or 400r1a board. And, if the OP does have a stuck relay and the board is as old as I think it is, those boards are NLA. Maax Arizona does have a conversion board to replace it with, but you have to change the topside as well.
John
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No, the manual doesn't say which jumpers to move. The later 880 manual says which ones, but the earlier 850 doesn't, and the boards are very different based on what the manual DOES show. My manual shows an area on my board labeled J8, with the word OPTIONS, but that's as detailed as it gets. I've been told it may be printed on the inside of the panel, however I don't have the spa yet so can't check.
Sorry that I didn't specify what I've got electrical-wise. I've got three THHN 6 wires and one smaller ground wire (8AWG, as mentioned above?) from my main breaker panel in PVC condiut. It was put in place by the previous owner and is connected to nothing on the spa end, just jutting out of the conduit. I purchased a 60A spa panel at Home Depot, and a 60A breaker to replace the 50A that's currently in the main panel. My house has 200A service (built in 2005). I purchased three strands of THHN 6 wire, black, red and green, and will run it from the spa panel to the spa in PVC, connecting to a flexible non-metallic conduit when it comes back up to the surface, then to the spa.
Follow-up question - can I use THHN 6 wire for the ground, or will that be a problem, either fitting it in the terminal block in the spa, or because it's 8AWG from the house to the spa panel?
If you are sure that ALL electrical components are capable of supporting 60 amps, install a jumper pin across the two terminals at JP9 position #7.
John
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Stuck relay.
John
I doubt it would consistently maintain a temp to within ~4 with a stuck relay.
Re-read the OP's last post. The tub is NOT within a few degrees of set point. He stated that he set the temp to 80, the water temp is actually 104 to 108 and the display is reading the temp as 104 to 108. That sure sounds like a Coleman Horizon 400 that is cycling on the high limit sensor. A stuck relay is easy to check.
John
lol- re-read my reply. I said it wouldn't maintain "a" temp to within 4 degrees, not the set temp. I never say never, but it's highly unlikely a stuck heater relay is going to have that kind of consistency to maintain a temp, then still be able to open and close that for any length of time and maintain that temp. ( Even when that temp is much higher than the set temp- the consistency is what's remarkable)
If it's stuck, and stays shut to reach 108, assuming it gets "unstuck" by itself, how does it close again at 104, while it's set at 80, to reach 108, at which point it opens again, over and over? I didn't read that it was going into overheat protection mode- maybe I'm missing something here.
The mistake you are making is assuming that the relay that normally opens and closes to turn the heater on and off is the one that is opening at 108 degrees. The high limit relays normally stay closed at all times and only open on a signal of 108 or 109 degrees. One high limit relay opens if excessive temp is detected by the temp sensor. The other high limit relay opens if excessive temperature is detected by the high limit sensor. I suspect that one of the limit relays is actually opening, then resetting when the tub drops into a normal range (104 or less), at which point the heat runs away again because the normal temperature relay is stuck. Newer firmware tubs will not often reset themselves, but older tubs like this will automatically reset the limits once temp drops to 104 or less.
This older board probably has open relays and the stuck relay, if stuck, will be readily observed by shutting off power to the tub and visually checking for stuck contacts. On boards with closed relays, check for continuity from "common" to "normally open" with the power off. Any relay with continuity from C to NO with power off is stuck.
John
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Stuck relay.
John
I doubt it would consistently maintain a temp to within ~4 with a stuck relay.
Re-read the OP's last post. The tub is NOT within a few degrees of set point. He stated that he set the temp to 80, the water temp is actually 104 to 108 and the display is reading the temp as 104 to 108. That sure sounds like a Coleman Horizon 400 that is cycling on the high limit sensor. A stuck relay is easy to check.
John
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Stuck relay.
John
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First, it is very dangerous to continue to power a suspected ground faulted heater with even just one cold pin connected to power. Disconnect both heater connections first. If the tub continues to overheat as Chas mentioned, you have excessive filtration time and it must be hot in your area. If the overheating issue goes away, it means that the ground faulted heater was powered at 120 volts by completing a circuit through ground, an incredibly dangerous scenario. Replace the heater and your GFCI in that case.
John
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What specifically is working/not working that leads everyone to believe you have a bad board again???
John
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Jacuzzi was taken private a few years ago and the quality of the electronics seems to have suffered as a result. I do much more in the way of repairs for a Sundance dealer, but it is basically all the same. In the case of the circuit boards since 2006, Jacuzzi has had major problems with circuit boards. The usual failure is with the large capacitors near the middle of the circuit board. Failure here results in screwed up topside displays, total loss of power, watchdog errors, incorrect temperature readings, etc etc etc. I suspect that they were sourcing the cheapest electrolytics out of Asia that they could find. Your original board may have been the real problem all along.
The board issue seems to have been resolved by Jacuzzi and Sundance as of last summer. We were frequently seeing new boards fail right out of the wrapper. Since you indicate that your board was last changed in March of 2011, I suspect you got another problem board.
What failed on your board?? The capacitors?? If so, I'd be screaming at Jacuzzi because this is a well documented problem.
John
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Much of the ASD equipment and its subsequent iteration, A.H. Equipment Corp, did NOT use pneumatic controls. If he has one of their pneumatic controls, that is a rare version. ASD and A.H. Equipment were some of the very early adopters of fully electronic controls. I believe that I still have a couple of their boards in my storage somewhere, as I did a lot of warranty work for them back in the 80's and early 90's.
John
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The local Nordic dealer that I do a lot of work for refers to the Nordic full foam option as the "California" option. He orders all his tubs with the increased insulation, but that is one thing a shopper has to watch, as not all dealers order their tubs this way.
John
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Pictures would be helpful. Most of the ASD equipment is NLA, but you can check with LA Spas. They are the modern iteration of ASD.
John
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If the liner is badly wrinkled, avoid it like the plague.
John
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Bad temp sensor.
John
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Tightening the nuts that secure the transformer does NOT repair the actual problem, cracked solder joints. Re-solder the transformer connections and try again. Hopefully, you may not have done further damage to the board. You'll know soon enough if you did.
John
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Let me give you the benefit of my 28 years in the service side of this industry. I've never sold tubs, so I cannot be accused of trying to subvert any dealer to help myself. The only way this arrangement makes any sense is if you are very handy, both electrically and mechanically, and you'll be around to service the equipment. If that does not describe you, you'll want reasonably local support. By your own admission, you've stated that you have contacted other dealers and all indications are that the NH dealer is within the norm. That alone should tell you something.
Another point that I would caution you about is that the Mass dealer will be legally obligated to collect 6.25 percent sales tax, or $500. NH does not have a sales tax. Now, I only see a $1000 differential.
John
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I would recommend that you stick with the original brands you've already looked at and avoid this one like the plague. These guys are nothing more than the old Hydro Spa. Suffice it to say that they managed to shed their debt and warranty obligations through BK and the same family ownership emerged out the other end with the company, essentially new in name only. Your gut should be telling you that something is wrong. Low ball pricing, nebulous contact info, do you really need others to warn you???
John
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The latest info with regards to the Thermospas BK. 18 million in liabilities and Jacuzzi will set up a $300,000 slush fund to reimburse some folks. What a laugh. This industry is really getting bad.
John
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It is referred to as a bullet check valve.
John
Buying Frustration In Florida
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
You'd be hard pressed to improve on the Geneva.
John