Fungi

Do you have an ozonator? If so, 40% may be as low as you're going to get. If not, you can lower it with bleach, but you have to keep shocking. One (or two, or three) shock may not be enough. FYI, if your CD keeps rising, it means you're not using enough Chlorine after soaks. If you use enough Chlorine after soaks, you really don't need to shock. MPS works well at lowering CC/CD, and doesn't have any smell. What level is FC at when you soak? If it's above 6ppm, you're going to smell chlorine. Also, if your CC is high, you're going to smell Chlorimines, which is worse than Chlorine. Again, try MPS. It will help without having to shock with high levels of chlorine, many times. I do have an ozonator. It's running full speed with the restrictor removed by the service guy when it clogged. The CD isn't rising (I don't think.) I have been setting the FC at around 8 after each soak. it's around 2-3 the next night. So it's not high when we get in and it only take from 1 to 1.5ppm when we do soak. So it never goes to zero. I was asking about a bleach smell not a chlorine smell. I guess that is the chloromines eh? I was trying to avoid using non chlorine shock as it is measured by the meter making CC measurements inaccurate. Chem Geek said this... Thanks again for replying! Non-chlorine shock (potassium monopersulfate, MPS) will measure as Combined Chlorine (CC) in most chlorine tests so will make your Total Chlorine (TC) reading higher than your Free Chlorine (FC) reading. Don't worry about that, though it does make using MPS more challenging. If you shocked with chlorine instead, then you wouldn't have these issues (and chlorine is a lot cheaper and pretty much just as effective and if you maintain your water chemistry properly you shouldn't need to shock much anyway).

Hi Nitro thanks for writing me. I have read that before. I'm at 40% as 4/10=0.4 or 40%. I already shocked to 12ppm using Chlorox but it didn't make any difference. Do you suspect non chlorine shock to do better? The wife asked about the smell of bleach. Is this normal? Thanks, Jim

I called LaMotte Company. Told them of the troubles and the guy said he was sending me a new set of reagents for FC and TCL and a test strip pack for testing the same so I could compare them as a reality check. I am not sure why my CC will not go down. But soon I will at least know if it's the tub or the tester. I'm not sure why I'm being shunned. I'm all ears if anyone would like to help me to understand this... My CC is running from 1 to 1.5 every reading. Even after a 12ppm shock. My tub is using between 5 and 7ppm every night. I would appreciate it very much if any more experienced hot tub owners could chime in to help an old stupid fart keep a healthy tub for his sick wife. Thanks, Jim

What happened? Chem Geek? Nitro? Anyone? Why have you dropped me in the middle here? Have I offended or done something wrong? What's up? I'm simply trying to emulate your method. I'm no rocket surgeon but what the heck, I'm trying.....

Hi Chem Geek... I hope this format is easier to read. Tub: Jacuzzi J-345 50th anniversary model Capacity: 458 gallons Ozonator: Yes, restrictor removed by serviceman when the original clogged. Jets: 27 Power: 240vac @ 60amp, can run pumps and heater at same time. Circ Pump: Yes Use: Year round, once every weeknight, sometime twice a day on W/E by two clean average size naked humanoids. Chlorine use. Dips take from 1 to 1.5ppm. Tub takes from 5 to 6.5ppm overnight. Combined chlorine reads from .93 to 1.56 6-28-2009 New Fill No test results as digital tested not here yet. 07-17-2009 First complete set of readings from the digital tester. FCL 7.77 TCL 9.02 CCL 1.25 PH 7.6 ALY 72 CH 417 CYA 75 SI 0.30 07-27-2009 At opening... FCL 1.85 TCL 2.78 CCL 0.93 PH 7.7 Added 1 tbsp Chlorox. Took 20 - 25 minute dip. Added 3tbsp Chlorox. At closing... FCL 3.61 07-28-2009 At opening... FCL 0.69 (Tub used 2.92ppm) TCL 0.69 CCL 0.00 PH 7.7 Added 3 tbsp Chlorox. Took 20 - 25 minute dip. Added 6tbsp Chlorox. At closing... FCL 6.42 07-29-2009 At opening... FCL 1.25 (Tub used 5.17ppm) TCL 2.19 CCL 0.94 PH 7.8 Added 2 tbsp Chlorox. Took 20 - 25 minute dip. Added 1/3 cup Chlorox. At closing... FCL 7.30 07-30-2009 At opening... FCL 1.46 (Tub used 5.84ppm) TCL 2.66 CCL 1.20 PH 7.8 Added 1/4 cup Chlorox. Took 20 - 25 minute dip. Added 1/2 cup Chlorox. At closing... FCL 9.05 07-31-2009 At opening... FCL 2.48 (Tub used 6.57ppm) TCL 3.72 CCL 1.24 PH 7.8 Added no Chlorox. Took 20 - 25 minute dip. Added 1/2 cup Chlorox. At closing... FCL 8.33 08-01-2009 At opening... FCL 1.65 (Tub used 6.68ppm) TCL 3.09 CCL 1.44 PH 7.8 Added 1/4 cup Chlorox. Took 20 - 25 minute dip. Added 3/4 cup Chlorox. At closing... FCL NA Attepted to shock to 12ppm. Meter out of range (over 10.) Didn't have distilled water to dilute and double reading. 08-02-2009 At opening... FCL 4.65 (Tub used approx. 7.35???) TCL 6.21 CCL 1.56 PH 7.9 (Added 3tsp Spa Down, 95% dry Sodium Bisulfate, now 7.6) Added 0 Chlorox. Took 20 - 25 minute dip. Added 1/3 cup Chlorox. At closing... FCL 8.16 Will need to recheck check PH and ALK tonight. I'm no longer reading TCL after we get out of the tub and only measuring it at tub opening. Still running too high. Do you think I need to contact the mfg of the tester to see what they say about the combined chlorine CCL readings? The last dip was at FCL of 4.65ppm. The wife says she smells bleach. My sniffer isn't so great. Is this normal using this method? Do we need to worry about hair color fading, natural and or treated hair? Do you see a problem with the tub using from 5.0 to 6.5ppm overnight? Would the filters effect this. They are pretty old. I need to replace them anyway, but do you think they could be part of the problem? Am I testing things in the right order? Do you see anything I'm doing wrong? Testing for me goes like this. Tub off and close since last use. Open lids to drain off water, then open both sides. Water sample bottle goes in to the tub away from the in's or outs of the recirc pump. With bottle held at elbow depth I squeeze and relax 3 or 4 times. I bring the tube up, open part facing up, screw on the top, and squeeze a little to clean out the top part. With clean and dry test tubes I squeeze water from the sample bottle and stop just short of the fill line, then add a few drops to take it to the fill line. I place it in the machine and turn it on. After about a second it says blank. I press the button so the meter reads the blank water sample. I then add 5 drops each of the 2 first drop bottles. I do this by inverting the bottle completely vertical, hold them above the test tube and carefully add the drops being careful not to touch the sides. I do not shake the drop containers when doing this. As instructed I put on the lid, invert the test tube one time, then replace it in the machine and press the button so it reads. That's the basic idea. I only test the following at tub opening... FCL, TCL, calculate CCL, PH, ALK, sometimes CH and CYA. I test FCL before dips and after adding closing Chlorine. I test PH within 10 minutes of adding Spa Down for minor adjustments, but also check the following day. Looking forward to any good advice. Thanks, Jim

Hi Chem Geek! Thanks for your support man. I will add more Muriatic Acid when the PH goes to 7.9 within a few days. I will continue to take measurements and log the results. I will ignore the CC after a soak and only calculate it when I open the tub from now on. The numbers directly under the date are the "just opened" readings. So I got the following for the last few days. 0.93, 0.00, 0.94. The other ones were immediately following a dip or just after adding bleach. Also I have not shocked to 12ppm with bleach yet. If it is a measurement error, could I benefit by ordering a new set of drops, just to have something to compare to what I currently have? The cost is not an issue for me. As for the accuracy of the meter. Sure it's a possibility, but as far as I know it uses the same drops as a visual version drop tester. I am under the assumption I could hold my test tube up to a visual chart for comparison, but I don't have one. lol I know the ozonator is working because the smell of a lightening storm is STRONG when the lid is lifted after sitting overnight. I don't have access to any other test equipment, nor do I know anyone else with a tub. I really appreciate your willingness to help me out here. You are awesome! Thanks, Jim

Other notes. Started using bleach on the 27th. Didn't have cool digital meter till 2 weeks into this fill. I found by experimentation: 1 Tsp raised the FC by 0.75ppm. 1/4 cup raised it 3.00ppm. 1/3 cup raised it 4.00ppm.

Ok, I have been tracking things for a while. Here are the results. NF=new fill Tub: Jacuzzi J-345 50th anniversary model SC=SaniChlor Capacity: 458 gallons SH=non Chlorine shock Ozonator: Yes, restrictor removed by serviceman when the original clogged. BL=Chlorox Bleach Jets: 27 FC=Filter change Power: 240vac @ 60amp, can run pumps and heater at same time. TO=Top of water Circ Pump: Yes DIP=20 minute dip Use: Year round, once every weeknight, sometime twice a day on W/E by two clean average size naked humanoids. C=cup Tsp=Table spoon Date 6-28 7-13 7-17 7-18 7-22 7-23 7-24 7-25 7-26 7-27 7-28 7-29 FC 1.01 7.77 1.52 0.83 2.75 4.14 4.06 4.76 3.17 1.85 2.66 1.33 3.61 0.69 2.98 1.95 6.42 1.25 4.39 3.05 7.30 TCR 1.77 9.02 2.74 1.86 3.57 5.54 9.23 6.45 4.57 2.78 3.78 2.39 4.73 0.69 4.03 3.30 7.84 2.19 5.92 4.44 8.58 PH 7.7 7.6 7.7 7.7 7.6 7.6 7.6 7.7 7.7 7.8 ALY 72 72 81 84 79 CH 388 417 424 CYA 75 83 96 SI .30 .40 .30 notes: NF +2Tsp +2Tsp FC +1Tsp DIP +3Tsp +3Tsp DIP +6Tsp +2Tsp DIP +1/3C SC SH TO BL BL BL BL BL BL You will see a pattern starting on the 27th where I measure, then add bleach, measure again, then dip, then measure again, then add for bleach for overnight then measure... Focusing on these last few days... 27th FC was 3.61 after use. 28th it was 0.69, Cool. Tub used 2.92 overnight. 28th FC was 6.42 after use. 29th is was 1.25, not cool at all. Tub used 5.17 overnight! Is someone using my tub when I'm at work? 29th FC was 7.30 after use. Will see tonight what it is... Focusing on the big picture... My CYA is at 96 after only 1 month of use. PH is drifting upwards will probably be at 7.9 today. Need to lower PH but NOT ALK, lol A new problem. Wife says maybe you should refill. Ahh nuts. After only 1 month... Sadness... I'm really serious about dialing this in. Everything was going so well for about 2 weeks. lol So Chem Geek, as you can see the CC has rarely been lower than 1 lol I'm so lost... Edit: Oops I had to correct some typos.

Hi Chem Geek... First off let me apologize for the loss of my mind... After getting the new drop tester I got all caught up in their manual and their methodology. I printed three things from Nitro. The lower TA without lowering PH, the Bleach method, and the finding your Chlorine Demand. After getting the TA down I was so stoked, and then soon thereafter I received my drop tester, and started testing the crap out of everything. 8) So last night I reread everything and I think I understand everything better now. So because I got this information a little late in the game my CYA is already too high (75). I'm getting the unscented Chlorox today and will use it for the rest of this fill. So I'm in with the Bleach method! I am ditching the non chlorine shock and good riddance to it! I'm all chlorine from now on. I do worry that I will lose out on soak time with shocking to 11. As I stated it's for RA therapy and it's used every day and sometimes twice a day on the weekends. I know it's ok to get in at levels up to 8. So you guys don't use the TC-FC shock if over .2 method, so I just ignore this and shock to 11 one time a week? I like easy... Now that I'm back from outer space... Do you think it would be better (I think it's mandatory) for me to fill using only soft water? It will take like 3 times longer. lol But the CH being ~400 from the well... Do you think the water softener is working correctly lowering it to ~150. You seam to know everything else chemical in nature. This is pointed mostly to Nitro because I don't know where Chem Geek is located... Nitro, I'm down state in the Peoria area. Now that I know the tricks lowering the TA in the summer is easy. What on earth do you do when it's time to change the water in November? Sure you wait for a nice +32° day to drain and refill, but how do you run the tub for 1-2 hours adding acid and aerating the water with the lid off and the heater running the entire time? We run the tub year round so I'm already spending way too much on electricity, but this is like wow... Looking forward to any advice, and thanks for the help so far!!! Ok, no mushroom jokes today.

Thanks Chem Geek! This was an unexpected reply. It would seem that there is no way to accurately use this product then. I'm afraid if I shock it to 10 ppm it will be a couple days before we can use it again. Do you think I'm maintaining the water chemistry properly. I'm simply asking for a reality check on the numbers I'm posting here. Am I right about the CH being the main culprit of my problems in the past? Thanks for replying to my post!

Hey Nitro, I'm back... Ok, I have had time to measure everything and get the final SI. It's been running around +.30 and +.40. From what I understand that's considered stable. Here are the numbers from the last read. PH 7.6 TA 72 *(47) CH 417 CYA 75 makes SI +.30 * the meter measures TA at 72. I read where CYA effects TA for the SI calculation. adjusted TA = (CYA x 1/3) = 72 - 25 = 47 I now see the relationship of CH and TA and PH for ballancing the water. Here are some finding for central Illinois well water. PH 7.7 TA 231 CH 425 <---- 425! This is what has been killing me all this time. It can't be removed from the water, so you must find a water source that does not contain it. My water softener provides this. PH 7.7 TA 239 CH 174 <---- I don't know if this should be lower from a water softner, but that's what I measured. So in fact the only way I CAN ballance my hot tub is to fill from the water softner... Please tell me your thoughts on this. Am I getting it? Ok ok but that's not even why I wrote. I have found one thing that will not work for me. For several days we used the tub daily and I put in 2 tsp sani chlor after each soak to replace the chlorine we used. I have been monitoring the chlorine daily to see what the chlorine demand is. It is still weird having chlorine in the tub when I test it. lol So anyway, I'm not sure what it is yet, but it's not a lot. But in the process I have measured the combined chlorine and decided it was timew to shock. FC 4.39 TCL 5.64 combined 1.25 <---- This is way high! I believe I need to shock when it's over 0.20. So I add 2 TBS of Natures Way Shock (Potasium Peroxymonosulfate) I do not know what the strength of this is. I dispersed it on top of the surface of the water and let site. After 5 minutes I got the following readings... FC 4.06 TCL 9.23 <---- the exact opposite of what I was expecting. Measured it again after thirty more minutes. FC 4.03 TCL 8.66 What am I doing wrong? And I was doing so well too. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me! There's a fungus among us!

Hey everyone, I received the ColorQ PRO 7-PLUS Professional Hand-Held Water Analyzer yesterday. I spend a few minutes reading their booklet, then looked at the testing guide. Remember I have never used a tester like this one before. I found the documentation very well written. I liked the fact that it tells you how to take an accurate test and goes to the trouble showing common mistakes to avoid so you can't screw it up. I was literally testing the water in 10 minutes. I love this meter. Um, sorry analyzer. You fill a tube with water and do a "blank" which is basically a calibration. After that it's as simple as putting in the 5 drops for the test and it reads it for you. It's very fast and well I love it. I won't bore you with the readings I got, but they were accurate, that much I know! Before I received the tester I also was able to get my alk down for the first time EVER! I never knew the little green square on the test strips could be so light green! lol As I said I used the test strips to get the alk down. I added 2 oz. of the muriatic acid with the air jets running full steam. The PH dropped to 7.2 and slowly over 30 to 40 minutes it was at 7.7 so I stopped. The alk went a little too far, it was around 90 to 95. But it's all good! I now have the tools AND the knowledge to properly maintain my hot tub. I thank you guys so much for taking the time to chat me through this. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm taking all this to The Great Escape to show the sales staff the proper way to get this hard central Illinois well water under control! My previous instructions from them were to "add muriatic acid till the alk drops to the target, then add ph up till the ph goes to 7.6". Problem with this over simplification is the tub sits at low ph for too long, and when adding ph up it brings the alk back up! Arghhh... Heh I'm one happy camper... Um, I mean Mushroom... lol

Don't bother me none. Got a wireless hub and the hot tub is right off the bedroom. A mushroom walks into a bar...

Hey thanks Nitro and Chem Geek! I'm an engineer so technical stuff doesn't scare me. But this weird chemical reaction stuff just blows my mind. lol I just filled the tub last week so I'm going to try to continue to lower my TA on this fill using your instructions. After filling from well (electricity) then heating up (even more electricity) I got a lot invested in the 350 gal. lol So I don't want to start over if I don't have to. Just waiting for my new tester. Happy happy joy joy! Hey... I'm a Fungi

Man that's a cool little gadget. Anyone sell it separately? Thanks! Hey... I'm a Fungi

Yo Nitro, I was told by my hot tub store not to use soft water for filling the tub. I did it once, and really liked the fact that the water didn't turn green when shocking it the first time. Remember well water, ugh! So what's up with the warning? Do I need to stay away from the soft water? Does your Dichlor/Bleach method allow the use of soft water? Thanks again! Hey... I'm a Fungi

Whoah! Just read you're first link. Two things! The people I got my hot tub from are complete idiots! You are a true genius! You're first link told my story. It was like you were writing to me for the most part. lol So when my new tester gets here I will be able to actually measure the important things required to balance my water. Thank you so much for making it available and pointing me to it. This tester is the same as the Taylor one as far as the methodology. It just takes the human element put of it with the electronic sensors. It's got to be better than what I'm currently using. lol Thanks again... Hey... I'm a Fungi

Yo Nitro, Much thanks for the links. While I was waiting for an answer I found this... ColorQ PRO 7-PLUS Professional Hand-Held Water Analyzer I hope it's a good one cause I just ordered it. I'm so impatient. lol I had no idea this technology was out there. It really stands to reason that it would be the next logical step. After white LED's and accurate sensors made the AquaChek TruTest possible. I will read your links and post any questions here. Thanks again!

Hi everyone! I have had a 450 gal Jacuzzi hot tub for about a year and a half. I have been making a complete mess of what should be a pretty simple thing... I love my hot tub, but I despise the tools and processes involved in maintaining it. There's got to be a better way. I live in central Illinois and I have to use well water. The untreated water is 7.8-8.0 ph, alkalinity is over 300. I use chlorine and there is a ozonator. The service guy removed the limiter on the ozonator so it is going full power... This was due to the limiter clogging. My normal method is to fill the tub and add 4 bathroom cups (12 oz.) of muriatic acid right off the bat. Add shock and finally chlorine. Some times I add PH up immediately after the muriatic acid, sometimes I wait a few hours. I was told that adding the muriatic acid would drop the alk. It does, but it's never gone below 150. I remember the ideal range being 80-100. Do I keep adding the muriatic acid to keep trying to lower the alk? How much is too much? How low should I let the PH go during this process? Is muriatic acid the best thing to use? How long do I wait for the PH to settle before I try to raise it back up? My tester is an AquaChek TruTest Digital. The electronics device is great. The strips on the other hand suck tremendously! I buy 12 bottles to last a year and because I have had to test on average of three times to get an average reading. They don't last long enough. It appears that the strips they provide for the tester have some major quality control issues. This last bottle apparently has most bad strips and only a few good ones. It's actually what prompted me to try asking for help here. I would much rather get an all electronic tester that does not need strips. I know they are used in the hydroponics industry... Does anyone have a tester they would recommend that does not use test strips or visual indicators? I would rather get something recommended rather than get something that has other issues... When I finally get the PH to hover around 7.6 this is the regime. 30 minutes before getting in I test the PH, Chlorine and Alk. I add a tablespoon of chlorine as it's always 0.0. After we get out I add two tablespoons of Spa Shock. Repeat in 23.5 hours. It seems like I'm adding a lot of chemicals. The wife has severe Rheumatoid Arthritis and I have plain old severe Arthritis, so the tub gets used every day all year long. We need help. Thanks in advance for any useful help I receive. I'm a Fungi...