bart6453
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Posts posted by bart6453
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-8 in south central Minnesota....building ice....HELL YEAH! Checked the lake last night....5" in the middle! Hard water fishing tonight! Putting out the permanent ice house on Sunday....should have 7"-8" by then.
Just thinking about that is making me cold. That's a foreign language to Californians.
You guys are missing out....hard water fishing is the BEST!
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Hey there,
Do you folks have lights around your tub? We have a pergola over out tub and I was going to run some lights over the one end of the pergola, however that puts a "powered line" within 10 feet of the tub.
They are LED lights, and the receptacle is GFI, so it should be okay, right ?
Andy
YEAH....NO!
If you are going to do anything, do it low voltage. Get some 12V lights and use a transformer (wall wort, big black square thing, etc...)that way if things go down hill you won't die.
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I'm not anti chlorine or bromine. When we bought the tub, they threw in a case of Peroxysan with the tub and I snagged a 5 gallon pail from someone right after we filled the tub. That's a lot of chemicals I didn't want to waste.
We almost bought a hot tub years ago, but the dealer (another place) actually talked us out of it due to my eczema. It's not that bad, but he felt very strongly that the chemicals and heat would flare it up. We snagged a sauna instead (again, from somewhere else) I grew up with a sauna so I knew it was going to be fine.
When you read about chemicals online, most sites say, "Chlorine for the pool, bromine for the hotub"
I honestly didn't even know what we were getting when we bought the tub. I thought we were getting biguanide.
So... we're sticking because we have it. If it fails again, we'll move on (unless they give us a new tub and restock our supplies) I am somewhat nervous about switching and finding out I react to chlorine or bromine badly. I never had good experiences in pools as a kid. Rashes, hives, etc... probably just not a balanced pool/tub, but I'd hate to find out after I do a fresh fill.
Interesting that you mention eczema...here is a paste from a previous post I had on the subject of eczema. As you will read, my wife had eczema...and now she does not. Take a minute to read it, kind of surprising that the medical community (including the Mayo Clinic) is suggesting and recommending that chlorine is a treatment for eczema.
Below is the copy/paste:
Well....recent studies have found that a mild bleach bath helps substantially with eczema, and if you do a webmd search there is more in depth detail of it.
From my experience with my wife, who has (or now more accurately had) moderate eczema, twice weekly in our chlorine tub has completely cured her eczema. She has no symptoms or issues.
I have another issue, which is extreme atheletes foot (you could search the forum for my extremely descriptive post about it if you want) but trust me it's bad, prescription medication and all. When I use the tub two to three times a week I dont even need to use foot powder.
Our overall skin health has been greatly improved by our tub.
Keep in mind, we use chlorine as a sanitizer.
webmd
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-tre...ids-with-ezcema
My post
http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.ph...lete's+foot
Mayo Clinic (look at how much bleach they recommend!!!!! 4oz to 40 gallons!!!!!)
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-8 in south central Minnesota....building ice....HELL YEAH! Checked the lake last night....5" in the middle! Hard water fishing tonight! Putting out the permanent ice house on Sunday....should have 7"-8" by then.
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If you continue to use the tub with no sanitizer, you will really hate it because of the bugs you will get! When you add the chlorine, you may have to add extra to kill all the germs you brought in and are growing and multipling. Supershock!
+1
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10" is a lot of snow. I would be worried that it may eventually start to cause the cover to sag before it melts.
It's funny how quickly you get used to the idea of feet of snow....I really didn't think much about it...I mean it's only 10" of snow right?
Then I started to think..really...that is quite a bit. Good thing I cleaned it off...we are waist deep now....and getting more.
I hate snow!
I had a guy come up to me the other day and start complaining about the cold and snow. I asked him if he had a brain tumor or was sick or something, he said no. I then proceeded to call him an idiot for choosing northern Minnesota to live in if he didn't like the cold and snow because for the last 51 years of my life it has never been warm and sunny in the winter in Minnesota. And somehow maybe that slipped by him or he's an idiot.
I shouldnt complain....I know what I am in for!
I have one hell of a bad attitude this week....a couple of feet of snow to shovel and a full blown case of Pneumonia......thought I was going to die on the sidewalk yesterday!
From a fellow northerner, one word:
Snowblower.
Oh yeah.....was all excited to use my new one.....and on the first pull of the handle....bang, the head gasket blew out. Too bad I had already sold my old one...great luck this week for me!
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10" is a lot of snow. I would be worried that it may eventually start to cause the cover to sag before it melts.
It's funny how quickly you get used to the idea of feet of snow....I really didn't think much about it...I mean it's only 10" of snow right?
Then I started to think..really...that is quite a bit. Good thing I cleaned it off...we are waist deep now....and getting more.
I hate snow!
I had a guy come up to me the other day and start complaining about the cold and snow. I asked him if he had a brain tumor or was sick or something, he said no. I then proceeded to call him an idiot for choosing northern Minnesota to live in if he didn't like the cold and snow because for the last 51 years of my life it has never been warm and sunny in the winter in Minnesota. And somehow maybe that slipped by him or he's an idiot.
I shouldnt complain....I know what I am in for!
I have one hell of a bad attitude this week....a couple of feet of snow to shovel and a full blown case of Pneumonia......thought I was going to die on the sidewalk yesterday!
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Don't think that for a second. Just takes Nitro's instructions, and print them off.
Read them a few times, then start doing it with your tub. Pretty soon you will have it pretty well figured out.
My suggestion would be to get yourself a notebook, and write down your water balance goals, and then write down the actual numbers.
Keep all the details of what you put in, the amount, when you did it, your hypothesis of the results, and your actual results.
This will let you know where you are going, where you want to be, and where you are at.
From there you can make more finite adjustments and get your tub right on course.
The actual education will only take a day or two, and from there it will just be reference.
The best part is that if you have a desperate question, or need an answer quickly that you cannot figure out.....you can just post it on here and have an answer in hours....Nitro, Chem Geek, and Quatroaudikwantomphysicaldynamics(or something like that :-)) will have you a very technical answer with very simple instructions on how to cure what ales your tub.
One caveat, Nitro's and Chem Geeks instructions are absolutely better than any I have received at any spa store. In no time flat you will find yourself doubting and then educating your spa store on the proper use of their chemicals.
Also, my sum total of time spent on my tub is about 5 minutes per week....it truly is simple.
Enjoy your tub!
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10" is a lot of snow. I would be worried that it may eventually start to cause the cover to sag before it melts.
It's funny how quickly you get used to the idea of feet of snow....I really didn't think much about it...I mean it's only 10" of snow right?
Then I started to think..really...that is quite a bit. Good thing I cleaned it off...we are waist deep now....and getting more.
I hate snow!
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Bought my tub used, a couple of little test kits came with it along with a bunch of different chemicals. I hadn't really planed on buying a hot tub but it was at public auction and no one else was bidding. I had done no research prior to purchase. Brought it home, wired it up, filled from the garden hose turned it on and everything worked. Got one of the test kits out and checked the PH the color indicated 8.2, one of the chems. that came with the tub indicated it was PH reducer, put a little in gave it time to ciruclate checked again and got a 7.6 which if I am reading right is OK. However when I added the prescribed five drops from the test kit to check for chlorine it didn't cause the water to change colors any. I emptied, cleaned, and refilled the test kit several times with the same results. Drove the 40 miles one way to a hot tub dealer today for advise only to find a sign indicating he would be back right after Christmas. I have really been enjoying this tub but do want to get the chlorine level to where it should be. so when people talk about adding Clorox are they talking about the bleach that my wife uses in the whites when she does laundry? If so how much should I start off adding? If I done the math right my tub should be about 250 gal. Thanks for any advise.
Well....did you put any chlorine in your tub? A very typical source is Dichlor. If you do not have any, get some at the spa store or online.
As to Clorox, yes it is the same. However, you cannot just add it to your tub. You need some type of stabilizer, the typical source of stabilizer is Dichlor. You use Dichlor at the beginning to develop a residual of 20-30ppm stabilizer(CYA). After that point you can add clorox as a source of chlorine.
Please read Nitro's approach to water maintenance on this forum. It has much more detail and will allow you to safely and easily enjoy your tub.
here is the link to Nitro's approach to water maintenance: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13634
As to the question of how much clorox to add, I suggest using www.thepoolcalculator.com and using their app on your ipod or iphone if you have one. (allows wonderful poolside chemical calculations)
Another thing to keep in mind is that your test kits do expire, typically the reagents only last one year. So make sure they are not too old. If they are go ahead and get different reagents as age degrades their ability to read properly.
Also, A good decontamination procedure wouldnt hurt as you have a used tub. Again, the best source of information would be Nitro's decontamination post.
Here is the link to Nitro's decontamination procedures: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19115
Good luck, I hope this helps!
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REMOVE THE SNOW
Duly Noted....I will take your advice...well...I already have! It's gone.
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What do you guys think? Should I take the snow off....or leave it on the cover until I am ready to use the tub?
I have a good cover, with the higher density foam so support is not an issue.
It has about 10" of snow on it now.....do you think it is helping insulate much?
Just curious and bored with nothing to do but watch it snow.
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One thing about that white mold that we have not really touched on....and as a course of order......Just because it is in there does not mean it is alive.
You may want to do a culture to see if it really is alive.
It will not just disappear once you have a proper sanitation process in place.
To do a quick and dirty check, take a couple of mason jars and mix up some unflavored gelatin in them. I usually add about 1/3rd less water than the instructions when doing a culture. If you want to be super scientific, make sure to boil your jars and lids before you pour the gelatin in them...also boil the water for 10 minutes before mixing with the gelatin. Pour it in and put the lid on it as fast as possible. Then throw them in your refrigerator on their sides for an hour or so until set.
Next go out to your tub and grab some of the white mold....I would use a steel spoon that had been boiled with the water. Do it quick and throw a few of the fibrous hunks on the gelatin.
You really should do three...put mold samples on one, a water sample on one(use a cotton swab to apply water), and leave one unopened.
put them on your counter, preferably near some type of heat source...light bulb, on top of the refrigerator...etc.
In a day you should see some activity. If you unopened one is becoming active, your test is shot as you have a negative control becoming positive. You could do a control positive by having a 4th jar that you swab some foot cheese from between your toes(pretty much a guarantee of bacteria), and if that does not show any activity along with your 3 others...you have a positive control being negative, and again, your test is shot.
This is a super handy technique for lots of things.....and basically how they do it in laboratory procedures.
This is what I would do.......Not trying to be a jerk on here, but I think somewhere in the translation you have stopped actually trying to fix your hot tub issue.
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Cramp, you do realize without a properly sanitized tub you risk serious infection to you and your family, not just white floaters. To me you sound like you're just playing games with your hot tub water, and aren't too concerned about it. I seriously recommend you start to follow the advice from the experts on this board, before you (or someone you love) gets seriously hurt.
Unfortunately, I don't think Cramp wants any help.
Cramp, why don't you just give up on the non-EPA certified sanitation methods?
Seriously...this is not a rhetorical question...why?
Since past history is clearly the best indication of future performance....one would assume that peroxide is not going to work by your experience.
Give good old chlorine a try....and if you are still using the wife excuse as a crutch there can be only one answer to that. A. you are a wiener and can't talk good sense into your wife. or B. you are wiener and can't come clean that you really just want to use peroxide since you are a contrarian.
Good luck...see you in the ICU!
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Basically you want to balance your water (i.e. adjust TA, pH and CH). Then give it a good shock (10 ppm FC) with Dichlor.
So it would not be a good idea to use the tub tomorrow after filling?
Just check your FC.....I find that my new water uses about 5ppm FC in the first day and then stabilizes out to to a lower Chlorine demand after that.
I dont like to go in my tub over 5ppm FC, some say you can go in up to 10ppm FC, I just think it's a bit too high for me.
Other than that, as long as your water is balanced, I wouldn't hesitate to jump in the next day.
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If they give you 6-8 week stall time to demand money back. If they demand wire transfer or cashiers check, time to run the other way.
Good article and good public service for posting it here. But maybe the thread title should be "Why not to Buy a Spa from Factory Direct Spas." I think it's safe to say that not all online spa dealers are corrupt. I think it's more of a question of advance payment via cashiers check or direct wire vs credit card. That one should have raised alarms by itself.
DK117
caveat emptor is your best defense!
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Can anyone recommend a pump for draining my Sundance Chelsee? How big a unit (GPH) should i buy?
I have an ultra cheap solution....I siphon it out with the hose on my wet/dry shop vac.
I start up the vac and start sucking....once the siphon is started, I unplug the vac, and then disconnect the hose from the vac.
Then I direct it into all the downspouts that I took off the house and connected together.
I just let it run into my back yard.
Takes about 5 minutes to drain the tub.
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we took delivery of the tub today. Electrician won't be here until next week. I have been reading Nitro's guide's but I still have questions.
after I fill the tub, what is the FIRST thing I am going to do? Is it balance the water? I suspect I am going to have to lower my TA (but I will be confirming everything with test kit). I will need dry acid for this. At what point do I add the borates? I have a D1 nautilus so ozonater is present. I understand with an ozonater I will need to aim for a lower TA, like around 80, and I will need to use borates. The borates can come from borax (like the kind from the grocery store?)
Do I wait to add any sanitizer until after my water is balanced? Assuming yes, then is my second step after balancing the water to start the chlorine demand test? So add 10ppm FC (with di-chlor) and wait over night and then measure the FC with a taylor test kit again. Am I allowed to start using the tub at this stage? then I keep testing my FC daily and raising it to around 6ppm, first with dichlor, then with regular chlorox after I reach 34ppm dichlor. I assume I would reach the 34ppm within a few days, so my weekly shock would be with the regular chlorox (to 12ppm). I also will shock with MPS once a week===can I add the MPS immediately after I add the bleach shock or do they have to be separated by any particular time frame?
Lastly, are any of these 'start up' chemicals useful to me (that came free with my tub purchase)? :
SpaGuard Chlorinating Concentrate--i assume this is the dichlor based on the chemical name on the bottle (Sodium dichloro-s-triazinotrione dihydrate 99%)
SpaGuard Oxidizer (Sodium dichloro-s-triazinotrione dihydrate 58.2%, 41.8% other unspecified ingredients) is this MPS??? Spa dealer told me to use this once a week.
SpaGuard Natural Spa Enzyme---does not say what the active ingredients are but says it reduces scum line and improves filtration. Spa dealer told me to use this once a week.
Oh, I do have a visions cartridge also.
thanks. just trying to work all this out still. I have printed out all of Nitro's writings and studying them many times and want to get it right with my new spa.
Fill with water.....turn spa on.....add dichlor to 10ppm FC (that seems to be about what I need to get my water sanitized and it ends up at about 5ppm FC by the next day.)
I add my borates up to 50ppm
I test my water and adjust the TA to 60ppm(by calculating out how much to add...then halving the amount and adding it, I test in 15 minutes, calculate the amount to get it to 60ppm, halve it and add it. I continue to do that so I don't overshoot....I then aerate for 30 minutes and check my ph. I add ph down (my water supply is always at 160ppm TA and 8.2PH) in the same way as the TA adjustment.
For the chemicals I just use alkalinity down, ph down, Gentle spa (borates), and dichlor from the spa store. (I use so little it's just easier to have it with child proof caps...I have kids all over the place)
This is all I do...I don't add any clarifier any more...no metal gone...nothing...The less the better. My water quality is second to none and my chemical usage is absolutely minimal. Rare is the day I need a PH adjustment, and after my 30ppm (cumulative & leaving a residual 27ppm CYA) of FC is attained by Dichlor, I switch to clorox...and add about 2 ounces every other day in a 375 gallon tub.
good luck, hope this helps.
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We drink in the tub too, but usually, when it is just my wife and I. When we entertain, we keep the soaking time short. Mostly because the temptation to whiz in the tub by the visitors might be too tempting for them.....I don't know that, but I'm just sayin.....
Now that's funny! I just tell all my guest that I am super fastidious about the sanitation, and I can tell if someone spills a drink or pees in the tub....so as far as I know...no one pees in there!
that's just funny...
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I am new to the hot tub world and recently purchased an arctic spa and have begun to use peroxysan as it was recommendedv by the dealer. I have since read some horror stories about it and I am wondering if anyone has anything good to say about it...my tub is only 1 week old so far no problems....thanks, Kevin
Not to jump on the bandwagon here..but I had a buddy who had a pool that he used peroxide to try to sanitize.
It got very out of control and terrible in the course of a few days.
Ended up with about a half an inch of water clarity (green algae bloom) on day 3.
He added many gallons of a high concentration of peroxide..I think like 75% stuff (I don't know, didnt want to know, I think it was from NASA)
Finally he gave up.
He had a pool party in 7 days and asked me to help, we did a switch to chlorine and had 99% water clarity in 7 days using chlorine. (lots of scrubbing, lots of bleach, lots of stabilizer, lots of work)
What I am getting at, is that clearly chlorine is a superior sanitizer. We were using a product that when poured on anything organic outgasses oxygen (fun to light on fire
) and eats flesh off bones...but it still couldn't kill the algae at a concentration that was safe to swim in. Good luck with the peroxide!
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After doing our own research, we're sticking with Peroxide. I never said that I was going to switch. I just wanted to research my options. I like keeping an open mind and not be bullied into making a choice.
My reason for this post was about killing the stuff and saving the water. That wasn't an option. So the decomtamition reading began.
Looks great, but the method we chose was Sani-Cleen (23% peroxide and 4.3% Peroxyacetic acid)
It's doing it's thing right now.
Thanks,
Cramp
Good luck, I hope it all works out well.
Didn't mean to bully you....just wanted to share how strongly I feel about peroxide.
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Enjoy your new tub!
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I would recommend that people be careful about drinking or drugs (legal prescription, of course).
If you were to pass out, you could overheat or drown, and possibly die.
Funny story about that....I have a tendency to overindulge.... and one night in the depths of a Minnesota winter (-25f that night) I got really drunk and my buddies dropped me off at home.
I decided I needed a bath so I poured a hot bath and proceeded to pass out.
Our bathroom is on an outside corner and the tub is also on that outside corner.....so.....6 hours later when my wife got home she found me blue and hypothermic in the tub....so we made a quick run to the E.R. to get me all warmed up.
Funny...I damn near died from Hypothermia in my house after pouring a hot bath...go figure!
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wow...that seems like one hell of an electric bill for a tub in a climate like California's.
I do not live in a semi-communist state, so I don't get penalized for using additional energy. With that said, my bill only increased by about $25 per month....and I live in Minnesota.
Sounds like something may be wrong there.
Christmas Lights Around Tub
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
I know it's a spa forum and all...but out of curiosity...how much work is it to keep one of those on the streets?
Sometimes it can be a challenge to keep the best of bikes in tip top shape, and I have always wondered how those hold up.
More on topic....my wife was wondering if she could safely use the hair dryer in the hot tub, as long as she promises to be very careful and the outlet is GFCI. What do you guys think?