JerimiahR

I'm pretty sure there are several Hot Spring dealers in Colorado. Hot Spring is a very good brand in the cold climates like the Rockies. We've dealt in Hot Springs since about 1982 here in Montana and they've done fantastic for us. We've done other brands, but ultimately stuck with Hot Spring. Here's a link to the Hot Spring site. You can punch in your zip code at the very top of the page to find your dealer. http://www.hotspring.com/index_spas_hot_spring.html Caldera & Sundance are also good brands to consider.

If the bottles don't list the actual ingredients, you might contact the dealer who sold them to you. They may be able to pull out their MSDS and see if the ingredients are listed there. However, if they consider their blend of product to be a "Trade Secret" I think they can legally leave it both off the bottle and the MSDS. (Keeping in mind of course, you're not eating it so I don't think they're obligated by FDA rules?) Generally though, there's a pH decreasing agent which will naturally lower pH and Alkalinity (just needs to be acidic). To raise pH and Alkalinity this can indeed be done through two separate products, and commonly is. However, increasing your TA will generally bump your pH up as well. Considering that pH is simply a test of how alkaline the water is or is not. BioGuard's "SpaGuard" line of hot tub chemicals does indeed list the Active Ingredients of those three items: pH Increaser is shown as "Sodium Carbonate" (100%) pH Decreaser is shown as "Sodium Bisulfate" (93.2%) TA Increaser is shown as "Sodium hydrogen carbonate" (100%) My guess is the Arctic Pure products are pretty similar, though the purity might be different.

If wired according to Hot Spring's recommendations, you should indeed have two breakers as spatech stated. They should be out near the hot tub depending on your local electrical code. Anyhow, inside the breaker box should be a 20 Amp and a 30 Amp breaker. In your case, the "20" amp breaker controls only the heater. The 30 amp powers the rest of the spa. You could optionally turn off the 20amp breaker and that way you'll know for sure it's not the spa heating itself. Just remember to turn the 20 amp back on when winter months come. Otherwise your spa will not be capable of heating. Also as spatech stated, because your Hot Spring is well insulated, it's going to retain heat extremely well. For example, we have a Grandee model (same size as your Vista) outside our showroom. Back in December we had several nights where temperatures hit -20F. We disabled all power to the hot tub over night one evening just to see how much temperature loss we'd have. From 6pm to 9am, the 500 gallon spa went from 104F to 100F. (We DO NOT recommend trying this at home by the way) But as a dealer/repair center, we wanted to test it out (accepting all potential risks of course). If the spa will hold it's temperature that well at -20F, it'll do much better with 99F weather. Just to be clear: *Do not disable power to your spa in freezing temperatures, as this may result in serious damage to your hot tub, and will not be covered under a manufacturer's warranty.*

That hasn't been my experience at all.

Their website would lead someone to believe they are associated with Arctic Spas, since they show all the Arctic Spa and Coyote Spa models. Though I'm wondering if this website is perhaps simply an Arctic Spa dealer based in Washington state. Their contact information is out of Washington. Their "Find Locations" button doesn't work, however on their contacts page there's an "Apollo" link at the bottom that attempts to open a map of Seattle (however I got an error there).

Just to make sure all is fair for everyone. Here's a recent news article with regards to Premium Leisure, et all. This article was published in magazine form during the month of May, 2009 by Pool & Spa News. Premium Leisure Adds New Brands, Personnel http://www.poolspanews.com/2009/052/052n_premium.html

There is no such thing as a completely "chemical free" hot tub. Water is organic, and naturally stuff grows in it (especially at warm temperatures). If you're being told their spa is completely chemical free, you're being misled. Unfortunately, this happens to often lately. Talk to each of your dealers, and ask them why their spa is better than the other guy. Listen to the points they make, and decide for yourself what sounds like garbage, and what makes sense. There can be vast differences between some brands, so it's important to educate yourself as much as possible about the brands you are most interested in. Sometimes, it really is worth paying more money to get a better product.

I'm not sure how the base of any hot tub is going to make it safe for a deck if the deck is old or not built to handle the weight. Unfortunately, I think the salesman is overstepping his/her bounds a bit. I would never tell anyone their deck is safe to handle the hot tub until I've had someone inspect it. Regardless of what brand of spa you purchase, someone with the appropriate skills should take a look at your deck to make sure it'll handle the weight.. period. The bottom of the hot tub really has no bearing on whether the deck can support the total weight that'll be sitting on top of it. It's all about the structure under the deck. The Vista/Grandee each weigh approximately 6,000 lbs when filled with water and average sized adults (175lbs). Keep in mind, water weighs something like 8lbs per gallon. The Arctic Summit holds 390 gallons of water according to their website. So that's 3,120lbs of water. Plus however much the hot tub itself weighs, plus people. To be fair, we'll just use the same 175lbs per person. There are six seats in the Summit, so that's 1,050 lbs of people. Grandee = 6,233 with water & people (from HotSpring.com) Summit = 4,170lbs plus spa weight. A spa the size of the summit, likely weighs 800 to 1,000 lbs. So it's safe to imagine the Summit likely weighs about 5,000lbs when filled with water and people. There's a 1,200 lb difference between the Grandee and Summit. But, if your deck isn't in very good shape, or wasn't built to hold that much weight.... the difference between 6,233lbs and 5,000lbs probably isn't going to mean a darn thing. The deck may not be able to hold even 5,000lbs. Again, a qualified person needs to inspect your deck. I actually use a licensed, independent carpenter to inspect decks, and often he ends up adding better supports to the current deck structure. Sometimes he doesn't though. But I'd much rather have someone who builds decks and other carpentry items make the decision, than someone who's trained to sell things.

The best place is through your local dealer. Unfortunately, the circuit boards in any hot tub are a spendy item. I don't like buying that kind of part online simply because it's many times more difficult to return or get support if it doesn't go as smoothly as you'd like. The benefit of having your local dealer put it in for you of course, is that they can check out the rest of the equipment just to make sure there aren't additional problems outside of just the board.

Wow congratulations on the hot tub purchase! I bet you folks are excited! Hope everything works smoothly with your contractor. By the way: I love the Hot Spring robes. They are pretty darn comfy. My wife has a couple robes, so I haven't splurged for a robe for her yet... Can't wait to hear about your hot tub soaking later!

I will say that I'm very glad you're so open with the fact that you own a Hot Spring product, and that you really enjoy it. However, be careful with the comments in regard to Mexico. They may sit well with some, but others may frankly become alienated by them. As a Hot Spring dealer, I do also sell the Limelight product line. And frankly, though I'm a Hot Spring lover to the core, the Limelight spas a a good quality product. As Spatech mentioned, they are manufactured by the same company. This means the same research and development team, same engineers, same suppliers, are putting things together for this hot tub. The construction is a little different, and the styling and features are different. However, it's the same quality (and same model) heaters, pumps, and internal equipment as you'd find in the more expensive Hot Spring model line. It's simply put together by people on the other side of the U.S. - Mexico border. In fact, I was once told that the facility in Mexico is more impressive/modern than the one here in the United States. And I've toured the Hot Spring factory in Vista, CA. It was pretty impressive. And the reason the Hot Spring sales folks talk about lights, is because that was part of the point with the "Limelight" model line. Many spas out there, have features like LED lights, and other bling type items. Hot Spring developed the Limelight line so that folks who specifically want those kind of things, can still buy a Watkins product. Just like Toyota and Lexus. I'm fine driving my Toyota, because I don't need/want to spend the extra money on the Lexus just to get the GPS and Leather seats. Otherwise, they're made by the same company. Doesn't mean Toyota is a poor quality product. The Limelight model line of spas is marketed toward a different customer. Not everyone falls in love with the Hot Spring Spas, not everyone falls in love with the Tiger River Spas, so they made Limelight. Some folks really love them, because of the lighting and the styling of the seats. Frankly, there's a type of customer out there who could care less what the HP or GPM rating on a jet pump is, or what kind of insulation is inside the spa, or why this ozone unit lasts longer than that one. Sometimes someone wants something simply because it looks great, feels great, and they just plain like it. And if you have a customer who tells you they really love the lighting in the hot tub, because they think it would look great on their patio at night, why on earth would you want to shove CEC ratings down their throat? I love the Limelight spas, because my customers enjoy them, and I know they come from a very reputable, quality and customer service driven company (Watkins). The Limelight spas may have been introduced last year, but they use the same internal equipment that has proven so reliable on the Hot Spring and Tiger River hot tubs for years. So we can presume a pretty decent reliability actually. The fact that they are assembled by folks in Mexico doesn't bug me at all. In fact, some of the hardest working folks I ever met were Mexicans who came to the US to work (I used to live in southern Arizona). And trust me, if you're concerned about American dollars flowing into Mexico, be glad. Because MANY Mexican families near the border shop our big box stores in the U.S. (Walmart, Target, Best Buy, etc). They drive up from Mexico to Tucson and Phoenix on a pretty regular basis to do their shopping. A very large number of consumer electronics in fact are manufactured in Mexico these days. Take a look at your DVD player, and other such items. You'd be surprised. I myself, will intentionally try to find electronic devices manufactured in Japan, because they tend to be very high quality products. Anyhow, I had to give my two cents. I think we as Americans should be very proud of our home grown products, but we should also be careful that we don't become prejudiced toward people of other countries. And I don't think Hot Spring dealers go out of their way to hide the fact that Limelight spas are manufactured in Mexico. At least I don't. Folks ask me all the time, and I answer them with a smile.

I wanted to wish everyone a Happy 4th of July weekend. May your weekend be full of family, fun, relaxation (especially in your hot tub!). I wish you all the safest of holiday weekends. Happy Holiday Soaking!

Not quite true my LA Spa has a 100% no bypass filter system. Great! Looking at the LA Spa website, it looks like a select few of their models do have multiple filters, thereby allowing them to get rid of the footwell jet intakes. It's a plus to have all the water filtered, rather than just most of it when the jets are on. But it's not something every person will find absolutely essential. Though some folks really like the idea of having all the water filtered before it comes out of their jets. Happy 4th of July

My first question would be, "Is the water temperature actually rising to 112?" You may have a problem with little or no circulation through the heater. In other words, you could have a blockage or a pump which simply isn't functioning properly, and thereby when the heater turns on, it's heating just the water inside itself. This will ultimately heat up very high and trigger the "High Limit" safety on your spa. Now, if the water in the hot tub itself is actually getting that hot, you may have a problem with the thermostat in the hot tub itself (which is why there's a separate high limit safety). That's just my guess. Does your Sundance have the optional circulation pump, or does it use the jet pump to cycle water?

Hi there Country. The truth is, a fully-foamed spa is more difficult to make plumbing related repairs. This of course is because the plumbing is inside the insulation of the spa. A large number of spas out there that really aren't insulated, are extremely easy to make plumbing repairs because you simply remove the siding on the hot tub. In those cases, the plumbing is just hanging there in front of you. Our experience as a Hot Spring dealer since 1982 (we've also carried other brands over the years as well) is that the Hot Spring brand of spas develop leaks a lot less than other spas we've dealt with. The extremely vast majority of plumbing repairs we do are the direct results of poor winterization (or lack there of) on a customer's part. In other words, folks will drain their spa in the winter months, and leave it empty without actually blowing out the lines to clear ALL the water out. This is the same thing we have to do with our sprinkler systems in our lawns up here during winter. Otherwise, the water freezes and cracks plumbing. Can it happen now and again? Sure, and it does with every hot tub brand regardless of how it's built. The advantage we've experienced, is that the fully foamed spa brands tend to leak less, in part because that foam actually holds the plumbing in place so it doesn't vibrate or move, which ultimately means the plumbing joints hold firm quite a bit longer. Also the plumbing doesn't get jostled around when the spa is moved around, which certainly can help too. Fully foamed spas are typically more efficient due to the better insulation, which means they save you money over time. However, they can be a little more expensive/difficult to repair if they do leak. In my experience though, they tend to leak less often. Ultimately, a consumer should weigh the differences between the insulation methods, the features they like on different spas, and decide what makes the most sense to them.

Gene, Hopefully I can help answer a couple of your questions! 1) As Roger said, basically you pay for the extra warranty whether you realize it or not. Manufacturers literally have to set aside money based upon their warranty time frame, potential repair costs, etc. So because the Limelight models are a bit less expensive than the Hot Spring models, you get a shorter warranty. As a Hot Spring/Limelight dealer I can tell you, the equipment inside the two spas is identical. Same heaters, same jet pumps, same 24/circulation pump. The life expectancy on the equipment inside a Hot Spring and Limelight are no different. However, to put the Limelight into the price bracket it falls into, the warranty isn't quite as long. Personally, I'd have no qualms with owning a Limelight. If you prefer the Flair model after sitting in it, you can't go wrong. 2) As far as filtration goes, the Limelight filters the same way 90% of hot tubs do. There's nothing necessarily wrong with it at all. The Hot Spring model line is very unique in it's 100% No-Bypass filter system. That's just not something you find with other manufacturers. It's something extra Hot Spring does as an added benefit on their Hot Spring model line. 3) Foam insulation is a huge ongoing argument between manufacturers and salesman. There are definitely different theories between companies. The Limelight and Hot Spring are insulated similarly, however the Hot Spring is going to be the more efficient between the two simply because it is a "full foamed" hot tub, using dense closed cell foam. Also, the Sovereign is generally hard to beat when it comes to energy efficiency anyhow. In reality, the Limelight spa is insulated at least as well as the majority of hot tubs in the market. The Hot Spring on the other hand, is generally much better insulated than most major hot tub brands. The advantage with the Flair of course, is that it shares the 24/hr circulation system with the Hot Spring line, thereby filtering and heating at a lower energy cost than most spas. It sounds to me like you really enjoyed the Limelight Flair, which is awesome. The details you gave on what you liked about it, tell me it's probably the best option for you. As a dealer, I sell more Sovereigns than most any other model. However, clearly seats and jets are opinion based. And you've obviously found that the Flair works better for you, so I'd suggest you go that route. Price wise, as a dealer, I can tell you $6,795 is a great deal. I sell both models for more than that on a very regular basis.

The best thing to do here, would either be to contact your local Hot Spring dealer, or call Watkins Manufacturing (Hot Spring makers) @ 800-999-4688. Ask for their Tech Support. Very good support staff there at the Hot Spring's factory.

Hi there. Generally speaking, a fully enclosed/self contained hot tub is going to be much more efficient energy wise, cost less to purchase/install, and generally be more reliable in my experience. Not to mention it'll require a LOT less work on your end to get it installed in the first place. Being a Hot Spring Spa dealer in Montana, I'm familiar with the Mountain Spring Spas which are made here in Montana. They also sell relatively inexpensive 'portable spas' (self contained/enclosed). I keep a pretty good eye on used hot tubs being sold through Craiglist and have noticed there tend to be a proportionately large number of Mountain Spring hot tubs for sale. The reason for this is of course up for grabs, but that's what I've seen. I can say however, because they are a small manufacturer, I don't think they have any dealers outside of Montana (though I can certainly be wrong about that). To my knowledge I only know of a dealer in Helena and Missoula Montana. This could make technical or parts support a by phone deal if you don't have a local dealer. Generally it's best to buy a product that's got local support. I don't have any personal experience with Mountain Springs as far as in ground shells are concerned. Never spoken to a customer who has purchased just a spa shell from them. Do you live in Montana by chance?

Very cool! Hope you enjoy!! I look forward to seeing your comments on this hot tub later on.

iwillaceu: If you can pick up a brand new Optima for that price, it sounds like an extremely good deal. Of course as a Hot Spring dealer/fanatic, I'd always recommend you check out your local Hot Spring dealer before you pull the trigger. However, between Bullfrog and Sundance, I'd recommend the Sundance Spa first. Good quality product. Obviously your Bullfrog dealer has tried to quell the issue of the stagnant/moldy water behind the jet packs. The little stream of water they squirt behind the jetpacks didn't do the trick. At least not for Bullfrog owners in our area. It's a step in the right direction, but it's to little pressure in to tight a place. As far as the "no-leak" plumbing deal, be careful about that. There's no true "no-leak" anything frankly. Their idea of course is that if it does leak, you'll never know because most of the plumbing is under water behind your jetpacks.

As a Hot Spring dealer I can tell you those prices on the 2008 Vanguard and 2009 Vanguard are pretty good actually. I wouldn't sell them for that price where we are. As far as whether to buy the 2008 or 2009. Pretty much 100% of this decision is going to be opinion based on your part. The changes from 2008 to 2009 were 'mostly' aesthetic. The new lighting features are kind of cool, but whether you have to have them or not is totally up to you. Some customers really love the color changing lights, while others tell me they could care less about even having a light in the spa. The jets themselves are exactly the same from 2008 to 2009, so there's no difference there. The controls on the 2008 are a little more simplistic, and therefore have about 10 seconds worth of learning curve. The 2009 controls have gotten a little bit more sophisticated in order to allow for the extra lighting features, and to enable some of the latest upgrades (stereo, TV, etc). If you don't care about putting the absolute latest accessory items on, no worries. Also the 2009 has some updated decorative moldings in the seating. Again, this is an aesthetic thing, and totally comes down to personal opinion. Unless you're definitely into the extra lighting features, the new detailed seat moldings, and having the top side controls, I'd save a few bucks and buy that 2008 (if you can do with the Sand color). Both spas would have the same 5 Year warranty, so no biggie there. Either way, the Hot Spring Vanguard is a really good hot tub. Hard to go wrong with it. As far as the other hot tub dealers go, a lot of times hot tub dealers are given somewhat 'exclusive' territories depending on their agreement with their manufacturer. It's sort of an anti-competitive thing. One Jacuzzi dealer doesn't want to be competing against another Jacuzzi dealer since they're all the same team if you will. Not quite like buying a car.

Awesome. Hope you guys enjoy that hot tub for years and years. Glad to have helped you answer some questions. Very cool to hear that the arm rests were a factor for you. As you said, sometimes the little things are what help us in our buying decisions. Happy Hot Tubbing!!

Saw their ad in a magazine once.

I guess that depends on who they work for. Our service techs receive both on the job training, as well as factory training. We also send our technicians to the Hot Spring factory for a training course there as well. That gives them a large amount of basics to begin with, and the fundamental resources for what they need to do. But, like any other job, on the job experience is where a lot of a technician's abilities come from.

Officially, the OUTSIDE dimensions on the 2009 Vanguard are exactly 7'3" x 7'3" by 36". However, this is the absolute outside dimensions (measured to the edge of the shell). The 85.5" dimension you saw is actually the measurement of the BASE of the spa. So that's a measurement of the portion that actually touches the ground. They give both of these dimensions on that Pre-Delivery diagram for custom installs like this. Ultimately, it's best to install the hot tub, and THEN build the deck around it. This allows the carpenter to snug the deck as close to the spa as possible. They probably CAN get the spa into the deck, but with 1/2" to spare it's going to be a very tight fit. Is your decking already built, and if so is it surrounded on 4 sides? If so, they may have to use a crane or something to lower the spa down into the hole in the deck. It should look really nice when it's done though!! Partially recessed spas are beautiful if you ask me.