cofive

Finally, finished a fresh fill. Superchlorinated to 13.5ppm and let sit 24 hours. Next reading was 9ppm for a CD of 33%. So I'm guessing if a non-ozonated tub may baseline out at 25% then the ozone may be depleting my FC by about 8%. Ken

Do MPS Test Strips actually measure MPS or do they measure the oxidizers level in the water? The reason I ask is I noticed that an MPS strip will detect, or show a color for MPS, even though I only use chlorine in my spa. Ken

Nitro, When you say "you didn't use enough Chlorine the night before", it is because the chlorine will act as an oxidizer first and santizer second? There appears to be a residual, which is what we've all been taught to maintain, but I'm guessing that the process of Chlorine working as a sanitizer, which in turn creates the chloramines, which are then oxidized by the remaining FC, depletes the levels. Ken

Usually you can dilute the sample by substituting 50% of the quantity with tap or bottled water and then multiplying the results by 2. If using tap water, be sure to know if it contains chlorine.

I have actually taken your advice and only raised the TA to a point where my Ph is say 7.5 I am curious as to why some spa manufactures recommend a TA of 125-150ppm when in many cases it is almost impossible to keep the TA that high and bring the Ph in line. I'm guessing water makeup is a factor but i've never been able to accomplish the manufacture recommendations so I've gone with the "experts" here. Please educate me a bit. Ken

Thanks for the response Nitro. I had been assuming there would be a loss due to the ozone from the informaiton I was gathering here and that it has been nearly impossible to keep much better than a 50% CD. I will attempt, at next water change to get a baseline CD, then every two weeks or so check the CD and report my findings. But in the mean time I'm guessing that if I add Cl to say 3-5ppm and don't let it fall to zero I should be okay. Ken

One issue that has not been clearly discussed here is the effect of ozone on the FC residual so I will ask the question: What effect does ozone have on the FC residual? If ozone is run 24/7 does it oxidize the chlorine, thereby making a residual difficult to maintain? And if it does, determining a true CD would be virtually impossible for the average D-I-Yer who cannot do the chemical calculations to compensate for the ozone addition. Ken

I am also going through a second round of a rash. It does not appear to be folliculitis, in that it isn't presenting as the typical "bug bite" breadout. This is definetly more of a rash. I had been using Enhanced Shock (2tsp) daily as instructed by my dealer in conjunction with the Nature 2. I'm guessing a reaction/allergy to MPS is a real possibliity especially if you try to maintain a residual as the N2 program suggests. Anyone else have any info on sensitivity to MPS? As one that has experienced both of these rashes, I agree that it probably isn't Pseudomonas Folliculitis. The Pseudomonas itch produced larger, about 5mm or so, and very red bumps which for me were both itchy and sore and lasted for 7 to 10 days. This other itch (which is actually why I'm not out tubbing tonight) I think may be caused by the MPS as I'd been using it both as an oxidizer and to lower the pH. This itch is more of an aggravation with small, 1mm bumps, that seem to get really super itchy when rubbed by clothing but the bumps themselves aren't that red looking, sort of like little poison ivy bumps. They also stop itching and clear up fairly quickly, in a couple days if I'm not tubbing. I've tried moisturizer thinking it was dry skin affected by the jets, but that doesn't help much and I've had the mini-itch occur even when I'm not using the jets. We've always used Chlorine and the Pseudomonas was in our first week of new spa ownership when we weren't using enough Chlorine, the water became slightly cloudy, and yours truly developed folliculitis! I've since starting using unbuffered MPS both as an oxidizer after tubbing and to keep our pH rise in check and even though I'm only adding less than 0.25 oz after each soak I think there's something that the MPS contributes which is building up in the water. After two refills I've noticed that the itch seems to worsen as the water gets older. I'd read a post from someone here that the N2 cartridges help reduce the MPS sensitivity, so I've tried that with our most recent refill but it hasn't eliminated the mini-itch problem. (We have an ozonator, keep the FC levels at 1ppm or greater, have the N2 cartridge, and our tub is 700 gal). Hope this helps - guess I'll try the Gentle Spa borates and see if I can find some unbuffered Dichlor which may help to offset our pH rise, and only use the MPS as weekly shock. Good luck! Wow, definetly talking about the same symptoms. I'm going to try and avoid the MPS altogether for a bit and just stick with dichlor. If I have to shock I'm planning on using a "pure" MPS, since it is not clear what the Enhanced Shock has the "other ingredients". I to noticed that the itch got worse as the water aged and attributed it to some sort of buildup. There was a reference to MPS creating a particular acid, I'm betting that that may be the culprit. Like I said will stick with strictly dichlor even for shock if needed. Ken

A scumball is safe to use with N2. I use 2Tbs of Enzme treatment once a week with my N2/Low Chlorine recipe and it solves any scum issue. Ken

I have found this vendor to have some of the best prices and reasonable handling charges. https://asp5.secure-shopping.com/spspools/mbody.asp Now I will add a note of caution, I had some trouble with their online ordering in that it didn't give me a confirmation of the order and no followup email. There was also a shipping issue where they claim the reagents were to be drop shipped to me but instead were sent to the vendor. I made contact with them today and they assured me I should have them tomorrow or Monday. I will keep the forum posted on the delivery since i'd like to give vendors a nod if they are solid, or possibly a kick if they don't come through. Ken An update. I recieved my reagents today. Swimming Pool Supply Co. came through as promised. An A+ in my book. I would recommend, if you're planning on doing regular, daily, testing using the FAS-DPD powder, the .25lb container may be the better way to go. Ken

I am also going through a second round of a rash. It does not appear to be folliculitis, in that it isn't presenting as the typical "bug bite" breadout. This is definetly more of a rash. I had been using Enhanced Shock (2tsp) daily as instructed by my dealer in conjunction with the Nature 2. I was trying to maintain a minimal FC residual but based on use needed to increase the amount to try and maintain this. As the rash developed I assumed it may have been the MPS in the shock, but to test that I went to just an MPS treatment as the Nature 2 prescription calls for. It appears the rash has worsened with the increase of MPS. I've now stopped using the MPS and am using only dichlor to see what happens then. I will be doing a water change in the near future and going with strictly dichlor and maybe the dichlor/bleach routine if CYA becomes a problem. I'm guessing a reaction/allergy to MPS is a real possibliity especially if you try to maintain a residual as the N2 program suggests. Anyone else have any info on sensitivity to MPS? Ken

I have found this vendor to have some of the best prices and reasonable handling charges. https://asp5.secure-shopping.com/spspools/mbody.asp Now I will add a note of caution, I had some trouble with their online ordering in that it didn't give me a confirmation of the order and no followup email. There was also a shipping issue where they claim the reagents were to be drop shipped to me but instead were sent to the vendor. I made contact with them today and they assured me I should have them tomorrow or Monday. I will keep the forum posted on the delivery since i'd like to give vendors a nod if they are solid, or possibly a kick if they don't come through. Ken

The acid and base demand tests will assist you with Ph adjustments. The included pool and spa water treatment guide has charts that allow you to use the demand tests to suggest amount of chemicals to make your adjustments.

If at all possible I too would like some info on the affect of ozone on FC. We seem to have gotten a bit away from the original question for this thread. I appreciate all the expertise and opinions here guys, but can we get an answer to the question?

When i test for chlorine with my Taylor kit, I add the five drops of R-0001 and the five drops of R-0002, invert to mix and compare the color on the test block. I notice that the color will enhance for grow more pink as time goes on. Does this seem normal? Or at what point should the comparison be done? I've been reading it immediately after inverting to mix. I figure i'd ask here before contacting Taylor.

I was given similar advice for my Tiger River Bengal spa using the Hot Springs Ag+ (now using the Nature 2) with ozonator. Although the dealer recommended the use of Spaguard Enhanced Shock, 2 teaspoons before/after a soak and 2 tsp diclor weekly as a shock. I'm thinking the Enhanced Shock seems to satisfy two needs; one, chlorine to supplement N2 and, the shock component as the need for MPS as called for by the N2. I do have a question after reading all this. How significant is the affect of Ozone on the chlorine? This was news to me and can explain why I'm having a hard time trying to maintain some chlorine residual. If your advice to your customers is as you say, what do you recommend they test for and at what levels? It would seem that it may be diffucult to keep a chlorine residual.

First of all I'd like to say I appreciate all the info shared on this forum. As a new tub owner there is always something to learn. My dealer recommended the use of SpaGuard Enhanced Shock daily (2tsp) before or after a soak. I'm using a silver ion cartridge and have a CD Ozone system. The Enhanced Shock contains chlorine (~58%) and a shock (MPS?) so in a way it sounds like the best of both worlds; shock to work ahead of the chlorine and the chlorine as a santizer. The cost compared to straight Dichlor is slightly less. So it seems to make sense to me but with all this other information out there maybe some has a comment or advice. Thanks in advance.