Chas

The Model F (Classic) was made for quite a spa of years. If you can post your serial number, I can help you find that reset button.

When you say this, it means you had some sort of meter put on just the spa. Or did you mean that your bill went up $280 for the two months? If so, then it may be things related to the spa, but not the spa itself. If that is the case, you can take steps to reduce the costs. Hang towels to dry and use again rather than running the clothes dryer. For most spas, there is a savings if the large pump runs the heating system. If you can have that pump run less you will save. But if you have a small circ pump which runs all the time, you will not see a savings switching to 220. The heater itself will use four times as much power on 220, but will run 1/4 of the time. Again, only if the faster heating can reduce pump running time do you save money. Now, let's talk about insulation. If your spa is well insulated, it will cost much less to run than a poorly insulated spa. If you have a good thick cover which fits well, you will save. If you can configure your spa to run fewer filter cycles - just enough to stay clean and clear - you will save money. Sheilding the tub from wind will save money. Opening the tub only when in use, shutting off air injection to jets when not needed, leaving the temp set, and other things like that will save cash.

Good question. Actually, a plug-in meter will only be useful for a 110 volt spa which is connected via a plug. In fact, you may have to make up an adapter of some kind because the tub is most likely going to be a 20a plug while household outlets are 15a. So, you would need to buy/rent/borrow a meter which can be used for hard-wired appliances. Those are not that tough to use - I have one I rent out which has a couple of special adapters which simply snap over the wires coming off the breaker in the electrical panel, in the sub panel, or even at the spa if that is easier. It keeps a log of power used, and you can set it up for a 30 day period, or just run it for a week to see if the tub is, in fact the power drain. But, if the tub is not the big culprit, then you want one of the plug-in babies. You should start with computers which stay on all day and night - they consume more power than you might think. Then check refrigeratore and freezers. If they are low on refrigerant they will run constantly to keep working. As Dr. Spa mentioned above, we did have a poster who found that her water line to the house was broken and her water pump was running 24-7. She had huge bills as I recall, and they dropped to lower than before once she found and fixed the pipe. An easy way to check, and free other than your time, is to walk out and look at the meter. If it is running at a good clip, walk through your home and see what is on. Start shutting off or unplugging things (one at a time) until the meter slows or stops. That will show you what is consuming power. If this still doesn't point out the power drain, try shutting off every light, every computer, every TV etc. and watch the meter as your spa is the only thing on. Shut off breakers if you have to, but get everything off. Then turn your spa up a few degress, and let it run for an hour. HTH

The odd thing is that unless you bring out a portable meter you cannot pin down the power use. Even if you shut down the spa, all the things which go along with spa use - being home more, laundry loads, lighting in the yard around the tub if applicable, people over to the house, extra cooking for same, etc. - will all stop as well. So if you shut down your spa and the bill goes down, it may still not be ALL from the tub. I would recommned a meter. With a bill of over a thousand dollars per month, if you could save a couple hundred bucks a month, you would pay for a meter and somebody to come install it / teach you how to use it. Some meters are more expensive than others, but there are electricians who own them and can charge you just for the use of them - I even rent one out. Expensive Plug-in Meter Much less expensive meter with a 'How To" Power Meter Store.com

Or an old refrig in the garage or elsewhere?

A 200 amp box will feed lots of circuits - so I assume you have a large house. Can you double up one other circuit with a 'buddy beaker?' That is a breaker which fits two circuits into the space normally occupied by just one breaker. It will not run your spa, however, it would give room for a two-pole 50A breaker, which is most likely what you do need for your spa. Here's a picture of a 'buddy breaker' or double half-wide breaker. Or put a sub panel next to the main and move a breaker or two to that.

Sure - Assuming your spa needs 50 amps at 220 volts, which is most tubs, you would need to feed 100 amps at 110 volts into a transformer to step it up properly. Actually, it would be slightly more than 100 to allow for losses, and NEC states that you would need to put about a 125 amp breaker to run a 100 amp device. That is most likely more than your panel could handle, and the cost of a transformer which would carry that load would be more than the cost of installing a new panel and simply popping in a 50 amp two-pole breaker. Even if you could use a B&B - A Buck and Boost transformer is generally only used to adjust the line voltage up to about 26 or 27%, and those units are still pretty pricey. Get lots of bids on upgrading your main panel - if the market is as slow where you live as it is here in So Cal, I bet you will get some prices which are far lower than usual. A new panel can be mounted on the surface next to your existing box for less money, if the looks of it don't matter - if it's out of sight. O you may have a friend or relative who could do the job for you for the cost of hard goods. In that case, get a permit as an "owner builder" and have it inspected to assure it is done safely. The inspector will generally work with you to assure the job ends up done right. They are not going to sign off on a bad job. Mounting the new box on the surface and then using your existing box as a sub panel can save you money on patching the wall as well, in some installations. Plus, you can install all the breakers you would need for your tub in the new box, and still have room to take care of all of those other needs: like adding circuits to your kitchen so you can run that new microwave and coffee maker at the same time from now on, and so forth. Do you have any breakers which are not being used? For example, if you have an outlet for an electric dryer which you are not using (I switched to gas years ago) that breaker can be removed, and new wiring for the spa run from a new breaker put in it's place. The breaker and wire would generally not be suited to run a spa, but the space could be made available. What tub did you buy?

No, sorry.

This is going to sound like shameless spamming, but please bear with me. There isa thread running right now which was posted by a spa owner who's spa needs help priming the pumps after every water change. This is one of a hundred little hassles which the name-brand tubs have addressed. I can't speak for all of them, but I know that HotSpring and Tiger River tubs have bleed lines built in, and simple little systems which allow the pumps to fill correctly and prime by themselves. This is not something that they promote or even put in the brochures, and it is very hard to fit into a sales pitch - in fact our owners just take this type of stuff for granted. It is just one of many little touches of quality which you don't get on the cheapy spas. I'm not trying to offend anyone who owns one of these things, because it's not something you would know unless you have owned a tub before - and even then unless you owned a top-of-the-line tub you still might not know about some of these thing. Things like self-priminng pumps, drain systems that go all the way to the bottom of the spa and empty the plumbing and equipment, shrouds on the pump motors to silence them and recycle the heat into the water, more dense foam insulation around plumbing to silence and support it, and a dozen more 'little things' which add up to quality and ease of ownership. My four cents. Anyone want to chime in with pet peaves about your spa, or pehaps with things that you are glad the engineers DID take care of on your particular brand?

Call my store after 10am this morning. Have your serial number ready, and we can help you out. I may even have one in stock. 805-644-3232

Costco tubs - Hydrospa.

I think we have reached a point at which it would be best to leave the rest of the finer points to the legal types. The question which started this thread was, "I Hydrospa Bankrupt" and the answer is yes.

I don't know exactly what you mean by your question, but I know that when Santa Barbara Spas dissapeared on me, I was able to send one top-side control panel back to the manufacturer and they replaced it under warranty. I think it was only about 6 mos. old. I paid for the labor to install, and I think I may have paid some small freight to ship the old one back, but I was grateful that HydroQuip was gracious enough to help me out. My customer was too. So if the companies which produced the parts can afford to, and wish to, they could help. But I don't see them as obligated if they never got paid in the first place, and they may end up making thier choice on a case-by-case basis. I suppose the number of failures will be considered in their decision as well: one or two parts here and there vs. a truckload of items.

I couldn't agree more. Now, if Costco is indeed going to help out with warranty on some of these tubs, I say good for them. That is great customer care on the part of Costco.

Glad to hear it. Hope it gives you years of good service - that's what this is all about.

Look, I'm sorry this seems to be some sort of personal thing for you - I assure you it is not. I am familiar with BK law, and I am familiar with the English language. The Bloomberg article is very clear in what was sold. Costco is going out of their way to help their customers, but it is not HydroSpa. The dealers have to make a tough choice - help their customers on their own dime, or simply say no. Perhaps you could offer some sort of proof of your claims? And the HydroSpa web site would not be a good place to point us - it says nothing about people who purchased before the BK. In fact, I didn't see any mention of the newly formed company at all.

You mean, me, Pool and Spa News, people who have posted saying they can't get a return phone call, and Bloomberg, which posted this: Hydro Spa Parts & Accessories Inc., the hot tub maker that filed under Chapter 11 in September, will sell its assets at a Nov. 9 auction, immediately before a hearing to approve the sale. The auction procedures established by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Tampa, Florida, say the minimum bid is $2.5 million and must be submitted by Nov. 7. The company previously said debt totals $13.6 million, including $3 million in secured claims. The St. Petersburg, Florida-based company explained how the bankruptcy resulted from the fall in home building and the cancellation of a major order by Costco Wholesale Corp. The case is In re Hydro Spa Parts & Accessories Inc., No. 07-08616, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Middle District Florida (Tampa). Sorry, but I think the facts are not in dispute. Again, I will say that some have posted testifying that their dealer or even Costco have helped them with warranty issues. That's fine. But once again, it does not contradict my statement.

Let me correct you then nicely. no one is without warranty I have seen that posted before - I think quite possibly by yourself - but could you kindly provide some sort of proof? The terms of the buy out which were published in Pool and Spa News said the equipment and rights only. I have seen posts - admittedly uncoroborated - which stated that Costco and/or a local dealer were helping with warranty, but as nice as that is, it does not contradict my statement.

Yes and no. They did declare bk, and then somebody bought the remains. That person turned out to be the previous owner - please correct me if I'm wrong - so now they own the equipment, the right to produce, but not the warranty obligations. Did I do ok?

I sell both - I think that they are very similar in quality and longevity, and very different in jetting. The Caldera has much more power - and you can shut off jets you are not using and add that 'oomph' to the remaining jets. You can make it hurt good. The HS has a wider variety of jets, including the Moto Massage. The HS has better filtration, but it is not that big a difference in day-to-day care or use. The warranty is about the same, with one minor difference - the Caldera has a ten-year structural warranty. Thas is the hidden, fiberglass part of the shell. Both tubs come with a seven-year surface warranty and five years equipment - and five-year no-fault heater warranty. Not all the Caldera tubs come with ozone, all HS do come with it. In my store, they are priced about the same.

All kidding aside, you are looking at some great tubs by leading makers. The first thing you would normally get as answer to your question is to wet test, but you have already done that. So perhaps the best advice is above- do the wet test again, taking time to find any little thing that you don't think you would want to live with. Take time to see if it can be adjusted, swapped or ordered differently, and go from there. I know it's tough...

Here, let me help you with this decision. Heads - you buy the HotSpring Envoy. Tails, you buy the HotSpring Vangaurd. And the toss..... Heads. Buy the Envoy. Now, that was fair, wasn't it? Glad I could help.

Moved the Caldera and Watsons warranty topic to it's own Thread -

Welcome to the board Peggy - I also spoke with you today and I'm glad to see this has just been a misunderstanding. George - please keep us updated. We want you in that tub, soaking away for years to come.