Pool-newb

Pool paint link above is broken. Just a beginners question- Would it be possible to put a vinyl liner in on top of the plaster or whatever surface is there? A surface that has to be replaced every ten years buts costs a lot to do doesn't seem much better than a normal vinyl lliner pool. They also have to be replaced but they don't cost that much.

I am slowly becoming convinced that I should put money into an SWG. However, I have been unable to find any reviews or un-biased comments about the different products available out there. Have there been any honest reviews and field testing of SWG systems? I'd also like to hear about experiences. A great device at a decent price may not be worth it if the manufacturer ignores complaints. Or maybe there are features not available in cheaper models that would make it appropriate to pay for a more expensive model. I'm not even certain how many manufacturers there are out there and what sort of track record the have. If I get enough data here and the data does not exist elsewhere I would like to start a poll to see how the various models stack up against each other.

Uh oh. Does that mean the drop test I used for the pH on the last reading (fc=14) was "bleached" and was giving me a wrong number? After adding the bleach to the water I expected the pH to have risen about as much as the drop test showed. My electronic meter showed a much lower pH (< 7) and was fluctuating which I've come to learn means it is not reliable. A later test (haven't posted yet) showed both again agreeing. I'll watch this.

I had googled this subject once myself and it seems to be a real challenge - real expensive too - to get any kind of sound quality underwater. This year I found this at Leslie's. $99 doesn't sound bad for a "submersible, wireless, speaker" of any kind, but I can't imagine the quality is any good. If you (or any lurkers out there) try this be sure and lets us know. P.S. What kind of BMW? I drove a GS1150 Adventure and GS1100 for a lot of kilometers in Germany a couple of years ago and I sure do miss those bikes!

My comments as a beginner with a small pool: - Pool size I like the small pool size because it keeps the maintenance and water costs down. I don't do a lot of entertaining and there are no kids so so those are factors. If I want to swim a long time I without running into walls I have set up a harness to keep me stationary while I paddle. - Pump I replaced the single speed pump last year with a 2 speed pump and I am very happy I did. 2 speed pumps are even required in California and I understand why. I can do long slow quiet filtration on slow without busting the electricity bill, or crank it up to get the job done fast. My favorite would have been a variable speed pump but the size of my pool and my budget (about twice the cost of a single speed pump) didn't want to accept it. - Heating I installed a wood fired pool heater and if you are rural with a cheap supply of wood, that would be an option. If you don't mind high monthly gas bills and are connected to a gas supply then a gas heater is probably the easiest and most convenient. A heat pump is efficient but you can't get much out of it in the winter months when you really need it. There are also geo-thermal heat pumps designed for houses which dont depend on the weather but I don't know if you can heat a pool with them. Whatever the heat source you use, two things you should always do: keep a solar cover on when the pool is not in use (it makes a drastic difference in the amount of heat loss, especially at night) and install some sort of solar heating. Depending on the amount of shade your pool gets, how warm you want your water, and how early or late in the season you want to swim, you may get enough heat from the solar blanket, or you could put up a large array. I think in terms of degree per dollar, solar is about the cheapest over long term. - Lights I have no lights in my small pool and I wish I did. if I had the budget I would have many small LED multi-color clusters spread around at different depths below the waterline, with a control that allows me to stipulate color and intensity. My current solution for about $140 was a "Pool-Buoy" which is a floating rechargeable fluorescent lamp, and works great. We also paid a lot less money for one of those floating disco multi-color LED things but it is not very bright unless all other lights are out. - Plumbing I don't know if this is an option or even industry standard now but I would install 2" plumbing everywhere underground. You may not need it but it sure reduces back pressure and the time required to completely recirculate the water. Good luck!

Sheesh - if it aint one thing it's another. Tacked the most recent three measurements on to last table and pasted below. The cover is a standard Leslie's Pool Store blue/clear: there is a layer of bubble wrap on one side and a layer of blue plastic on the other side. It filters out all most visible light except blue, and I imagine it stops UV also. I'm fairly comfortable with the test kit and the readings, I may not have rinsed the test beakers before the tests once or twice (always did it afterward so they were rinsed) but the most recent measurements are ok. Over the day yesterday cl went from 9.0 to 8.5. I would have been ok with that but I still had a high cc level. This mornings measurement was at 5 cl, thats a 3.5 ppm loss over night so I hit it with another shock. I didn't want to get the CYA levels too high yet. We've been having some cold cloudy weather recently so wasn't necessary to protect from sunlight, and I didn't want to have to use too much bleach to reach shock levels. So after this mornings measurement I hit it again with 186 oz K-Mart bleach (cl concentration isn't labeled but it was on sale so I assume it is 5%). That raised the cl level to 14.5 - but it also got rid of the cc! Yea! But every medicine has it's side effects and this one was ugly. Before I shocked this morning I saw that the beige stains are back. To quote a certain cartoon character from Arlen TX, "Got dang it!" I decided a grapefruit was appropriate for a mid morning snack so once I finished most of it I squished the remnants onto the stairs where the stain is visible but water is shallow and sure enough, nice round white spot where the stain was. So this means another round of waiting for a very high fc level to come down to near zero, a bunch of ascorbic acid dropped in the water, waiting around for the stains to go, then slowly raising the cl level again, hopefully this time with no cc. I also had erratic readings from my ORP/pH meter again this morning. pH was saying 7.02 so I checked it with the drop test kit and it came up to what I expected - the bleach raised it somewhat. - Could the cc be related somehow to the last citric acid treatment or the Metal Free by Natural Chemistry I used as a sequestrant? - I have had a floating erosion feeder with two pucks floating in the pool since the CYA dropped out. I removed it today (the two pucks are almost gone) but could it be causing the stains/cc? - Is there really any way to remove metals from the water or should I replace the water? - Last testing at the pool store said no metals and tds was within reason. Should they be reading metals if I'm getting stains like this? Date ── : 5/9 ─── 5/10 ── 5/10 ── 5/11 ── 5/11 ── 5/11 ── 5/12 ── 5/12 ── 5/13 ── 5/13 Time ── : 23:32 ─ 11:12 ─ 19:47 ─ 09:27 ─ 20:27 ─ 21:39 ─ 10:23 ─ 18:17 ─ 10:51 ─ 12:42 Tmp°C ─ : 25.7 ── 25.4 ── 26.5 ── 24.9 ── 28.0 ── 28.2 ── 27.0 ── 28.1 ── 28.0 ── 27.9 ORP ─── : 714 ─── 644 ─── 638 ─── 645 ─── 617 ─── 649 ─── 645 ─── 642 ─── 638 ─── 717 pH ──── : 7.59 ── 7.43 ── 7.32 ── 7.27 ── 7.17 ── 7.39 ── 7.30 ── 7.18 ── 7.13 ── 7.4 FC ──── : 13.5 ── 8.5 ─── 5.5 ─── 5.5 ──── 3.0 ─── 13.5 ── 9.0 ─── 8.5 ─── 5.0 ─── 14.5 CC ──── : 1.0 ─── 0.5 ──── 0.5 ─── 0.5 ─── 1.5 ─── 0.5 ─── 2.0 ─── 1.5 ─── 2.0 ─── 0 TA ──── : ─── ─── 110 ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── CYA ─── : ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── 20 ─ ── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── .

So unless your house in Spain is mainly on the plain ... (sorry, couldn't resist) I also had huge problems with both CYA and stains. The CYA came from the previous owners using the 3" tablets with so much CYA, and the stains came from the previous owners also using the 3" tablets but also not maintaining the pH and causing a heater to rust out, which in turn deposited the metal on the pool walls. In the meantime I've gotton rid of both but it has been a pain. I currently use bleach to sanitize my water but I would never use any system that would introduce additional metals into the water. Everyone I've talked to feels that the salt water chlorine generator system is the way to go, and I know that I would immediately install one if I had a pool that I couldn't maintain every few days. The site you mentioned does sell SWGs and there may be a bit of confusion. They refer to it as "salt electrolysis" but the function is the same; metal plates are put in the water flow and electricity is passed through the plates. A low level of salt (naCl) in the water reacts with the curring being passed through the plates and the salt is broken up into chlorine and other components. As the chlorine performs it's sanitizing work it is converted back into salt, and the cycle starts all over again.

Yep - I zipped over and read much of the ORP post and I think I just sprained my brane. I am still using the Hanna ORP/pH meter though. While I don't use it for absolute testing, I can dunk it in to the pool and get a good idea of any problems. It has a two point calibration for the pH but it only requests 2 test liquids. I have all three liquids though and I use the third one to confirm, and it is generally ok. I also have the problem with the colors of the liquid tests and I really dislike that the scale of the color chart on the testing container; it doesn't show many different shades. The resolution of the Hanna meter is .01 pH and claimed accuracy is ± 0.02 while the color tests are ± 0.2 (?). While my meter may drift over time I never dose the pool based on a single reading of the electronic meter, rather I look for relative values. The best example of this is that I've had a floating erosion feeder in the pool with two tabs for a few days now trying to raise CYA levels. Measuring twice per day I was watching the pH go from about 2.2 to about 2.7. I also watched the ORP, cl and cc levels and added enough cl to bring the level up to 13.5 ppm. I also saw the pH go up to 7.39. So the electronic meter may not be accurate, but I can "calculibrate" it so I know very quickly whats happening without having to fiddle with the chemicals. I've been having problems with the cl/cc levels because I left it without cl for a while but once I get it cleaned up I intend to use the meter to check daily levels and if I think I need to change the amount bleach I dose or the pH I'll certainly whip out the FAS-DPD. My take away from all of this is that I shouldn't rely on the "minimum 650mv" from my meter, nor should I use it to dose cl or adjust pH, but after testing and comparing it with other test methods, I can use it as a quick, easy check for appearing problems. Great as a daily or even before and after swimming test. Thanks everyone for the input.

(Comcast was down for a day or so here so I'm just not getting back on line) I sent Dave an email and it hasn't been returned so I'm hoping I got the correct address. I've kept a floating tablet feeder in the water hoping to raise the CYA. I haven't tested for it too much because I know it goes slowly and I also don't want it raised too much till I have the cc at zero. We have not used the pool and not removed the solar cover since starting this, and we have kept the fire burning for the past two days. Yesterday afternoon the weather cooled by several degrees within a few hours and has remained cool since then. There is also still some rain water on the pool cover from about two days ago. Between the two evening tests on the 11th I added 182 oz (one large jug) of bleach because there was suddenly a high cc reading and low cl. Questions: Why did cc suddenly spike after being so low for so long? How long am I going to have to keep the cl levels up to get rid of the cc? Does it help to go to double the shock level or is it enough to just pass the breakpoint? Maybe a constant but low level of cc indicates that something is being oxidized or "burned off"? Most recent values: Date ── : 5/9 ─── 5/10 ── 5/10 ── 5/11 ── 5/11 ── 5/11 ── 5/12 Time ── : 23:32 ─ 11:12 ─ 19:47 ─ 09:27 ─ 20:27 ─ 21:39 ─ 10:23 Tmp°C ─ : 25.7 ── 25.4 ── 26.5 ── 24.9 ── 28.0 ── 28.2 ── 27.0 ORP ─── : 714 ─── 644 ─── 638 ─── 645─ ── 617 ─── 649 ─── 645 pH ──── : 7.59 ── 7.43 ── 7.32 ── 7.27 ── 7.17 ── 7.39 ── 7.30 FC ──── : 13.5 ── 8.5 ─── 5.5 ─── 5.5 ──── 3.0 ─── 13.5 ── 9.0 CC ──── : 1.0 ─── 0.5 ──── 0.5 ─── 0.5 ─── 1.5 ─── 0.5 ─── 2.0 TA ──── : ─── ─── 110 ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── CYA ─── : ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── 20 ─── ─── ─── ─── ─── ───

I have a similar meter from Hanna (eseasongear.com has them here) that tests pH but also ORP (as a measurement of cl function) and temperature, and mine seems to be pretty accurate and convenient. I really like mine but if you get one of these meters, be aware that you'll also need calibrating fluid. It's not expensive but it does need to be ordered online and stored and the meter calibrated periodically and it is a bit of a bother. The results from my meter correspond fairly closely with my Taylor test kit and pool store results but in your case it would worry me that you see such a huge discrepancy between your "at work" value and the pool store. In your case I would be looking at a couple of things. First of all I agree with pool clown. Ditch the strips, I never got clearly repeatable readings from them. Next I would try another pool store in the area, and then I would purchase a good titration test kit like thet Taylor or the TF test kit. (For pH only there are kits at Wmart, your local pool store or even an aquarium place that will work fine). I would continue to do this until I get two or more readings that agree with each other. If you purchase the meter, use that as one of the tests to compare with the others.

I put in a Hayward Northstar 1.5 rated hp dual speed pump and replaced all above ground plumbing with 2". I'm happy with the configuration - especially the dual speed part. I rarely use the high speed but when I do I get a really fast turnover in this small pool. The slow speed is great for long term gentle filtering. It requires probably only 10-20% of the full speed energy, is very quiet, and still keeps things moving. I use the high speed option for filtering and rapid turnover when adding chemicals or similar situations. One problem I found is that I am getting cavitation bubbles on the input side. After as the pump runs at low speed, small bubbles collect in the filter basket and the air pocket keeps growing until the bubbles are passed into the filter - probably after about a full day running. When I use high speed the bubbles are passed through directly to the sand filter, and the pump basked area becomes full of water again. I intentionally used a larger pump because I was planning a wood burning heater and possibly a solar heater and maybe some other stuff so I wanted extra capacity. Of course I enjoy going along with a craze just a much as anyone too, especially if it means something bigger and better. I have to go now. I'm installing new headers on my small-block lawn mower.

Any idea what they are from? I've seen test kits that will help identify stains. Maybe that would be a good first start. You could also check with the pool builder for ideas. Painting or replastering will help the water areas but the tiling probably wouldn't look good. As my name suggests I'm still learning but I struggled with some stains caused by rusted iron pipes and used ascorbic acid. it worked wonders where scrubbing did nothing but my pool was also full of water. To test if this will work, use half a slice of lemon or just some ascorbic acid pills from the vitamin department crushed and moistened on a small spot. Pool stores have it but I recently saw it for $45 for 2 pbs. You can get it online a bit cheaper. If they are biomass stains (leaves, branches, etc) chlorine may work. Good head-scratcher, this one.

Thanks for the dye explanation, makes a lot of sense. I think the static buildup you mentioned explains a lot of things: - The plastic case from the TF kit was very charged when I got it out of the shipping box. - I first noticed fluctuating and jumping readings on the ORP/pH meter and slowly isolated them to being related how close I was to the container used to perform the test. The meter was stable when I was not touching it or the container but would start fluctuating as soon as my hand came within a few inches of it. - I also noticed that the drops out of some of the reagent bottles would fly out of the tip at an angle and land on the sides of the test container. They also appeared to be smaller than I expected. - I was having trouble getting reproducible & repeatable readings from the CYA and TA tests. I believe this was caused by the static buildup and that in turn made the ORP look wrong (reduced reagent, lower CYA value than real, ORP lower.) The ORP meter may also have been affected by the static buildup but I was sure I got a stable and repeatable reading before I recorded it. I've also found that pH has a drastic effect on the ORP with lower pH producing higher ORP values. - I wiped the test kit case down and one of the bottles with a moist rag and that seemed to help stabilize things but I didn't think to wipe all the bottles and test beakers. - The link you gave me about static on the test bottles will help for all future readings. Since my last post I've aerated the pool, added 6 boxes of Borax, a little more than two gallons muriatic acid. Checked everything then added 24 cups of 6% Clorox because the cl was at 0, and added 2 3" tabs to a floating feeder. Here are the final results of the evening: 9 May, 23:32 Temp: 25.7 ORP: 714 pH: 7.59 fc: 13.5 (need to challenge as I think I still had a bit of static effect) cc: 0.5 - 1.0. (wasn't entirely clear on first drop) ta: 110 (measured with old kit, new still had serious static problem) Optical clarity - still at around 95% but this is subjective. Thanks again for all the help! Mark p.s. I did a single blind test of borates in the water by borating one 5 gallon bucket and filling another with un-borated pool water. I then asked my wife which one she prefered (because she had been complaining about how "dry" the water felt) and she immediately said the borated water felt smoother and less dry. I couldn't tell much difference but that's not really important :-)

Let us know what the TA is with the new kit. I got one and I really like the drop test for fc but I had about a triple high reading (needed triple the drops) for the TA test as compared to the pool store and my own other test kit. As I am typing I have my shop vac running backwards and the hose is weighted down in the shallow end. makes a great areator. I still have it a bit high and I want to add borates tonight.

Thanks again Richard, you're a star! Just got back from the pool shop which is next to Kmart and Kroger and within those three stores I found the muriatic acid and borax I needed to introduce the borates. I couldn't find any ammonia or borate testing kits at any of those locations but your answer saved me a trip to the fish store. I also read almost the entire post - inlcuding the link to how CYA is metabolized - and found it highly informative. I agree that canning and selling the component - whichever one it is - that feeds on CYA would be a hot product. We could all go back to the tabs and erosion feeders and just add some of this stuff whenever we need to drop the CYA. As I read through it I realized how that was almost exactly what I went through. Opening, warming the water, not checking the fc during a plumbing failure, milky but not green water, high cc - looks like this was pre-programmed. The only differences are that my pool is smaller and I think I caught it faster than you. Pool shop just looked dumbfounded about the fc and cc levels - same test kit as my old one with a 5 ppm max. But they did get a cya of about 20 which lead me to purchase a floating puck feeder and gave me a use for that 50 lb bucket of tabs I still have left from my first visit to the pool store (a year ago). I really love the TF test kit and you even addressed one question I had; how accurate does the spoonful need to be? From you answer I assume the amount of powder is not really critical, just as long as it turns pink. Is that correct? If I add two spoonfuls of powder it won't require double the amount of drops to determine accurate fc (or cc) level? Also the powder seems to be partially granulate. Is that just the powder forming crystals or does the powder contain a desiccant? After returning from shopping the numbers are: Temp: 26.6°C ORP: 588 fc: 5.0 cc: 0.5 (one drop cleared the slight tint) pH: 7.28 TA: 110 measured by me and pool store, 310-370 by new test kit (problem here?) CYA: < 20 measured with TF kit and pool store, my old kit showed ~30 optical clarity - about 95% (up from about 80% at worst phase) Heading out now to get the borates in.

I received the TFTest kit this morning (Saturday delivery!) and I am really happy with it. I've had high CYA levels and haven't been able to measure above 5ppm, much less at teh shock levels my CYA level required. So now I have a load of questions: So far I've understood that CYA cannot be removed from pool water except if enough "biomass" (leaves, branches, dead cats, etc) gets in and converts the CYA to ammonia. Last year when I closed the pool (with about 100 ppm CYA) I removed about 25% of the water. It was replaced with rainwater on the winter cover which included a large amount of biomass. Initial testing this year with my kit and at the pool store showed about 60 ppm CYA. Over the past week I had a plumbing failure that prevented me from adding the bleach and circulating as normal, and the water got a bit cloudy (algae I believe). Since that event, multiple CYA testing showed between 15 and 30 CYA. I should also mention that I added a heater and raised the pool temp from about 63°F to between 78°F and 85°. Given these circumstances, could CYA be converted to ammonia this rapidly? I am planning to ask the pool store to test for it but I'm not sure how well I would trust the results. I had also asked in another forum if I could use my 5 ppm Taylor DPD test kit to measure higher levels of CL by diluting it with distilled water. In the meantime I tried exactly that and got an even higher measurement with the sample mixed with 50% distilled water. Any idea why this can happen? Is/was there something else affecting the CL measurement that got diluted by the distilled water? Now that I can measure things I just shocked the pool. I knew I had some combined cl and wanted to fix it. After mixing the water well my results are: Temp: 27.3°C/81.1°F (electronic meter ORP: 696 (electronic meter) pH: 7.56 (using electronic meter, confirmed with drop test) Cl:18 ppm (love that test kit) CCl: 1.5 " " " " So how long should I expect to keep reading combined numbers? .

One thing about an inline chlorinator though, you'll need to use chlorine tabs, and those add CYA to the water and drop the pH. If you don't replace some of the water often enough (through rain or or a garden hose), you will end up with very high CYA, low pH and high TA, as well as requiring additional algae control chemicals (which means added cost). Richard (Chem Geek) often recommends this Pool School at Troublefree Pool dot com and I can tell you it rescued me from a bunch of headaches the previous owners of my pool left me - I strongly recommend it (thanks again Richard and the contributors at TFP). Most pool stores are chain outfits run by people trained to increase profits but not necessary very knowledgeable about pool chemistry other than what the company video training tapes have taught them. But still be nice to them. They do perform free testing on the water, and they have other stuff that you may need. .

When I closed my pool I drained it to below the returns and put a brand new cover on it. On reopening this year the cover held just a little more water than I had drained as well as leaves, branches, pollen and other mud. Instead of pumping the rain water off the cover I just dumped everything into the poo. Had do a lot of cleaning and filtering but it was worth not having to use faucet water to do this. But for your winter cover it seems the only way this could be happening is either that water is coming from the pool onto the cover, or the weight of rain water is pushing the pool water out through an overflow point somewhere. Two possible solutions; Use an over sized solar cover under the winter cover. This should prevent water from penetrating in either direction. The other possibility would be to put some cheap inflatables in the pool under the cover to lift the cover higher than the edge of the pool so that rain water will run off the edge of the cover instead of going into the pool.

Love this stuff - I'm just lurking here and I doubt that I will ever use this info to build anything but I do enjoy the reading and it's great to understand why SWclGs are so expensive. I'll be waiting to see if you ever get this going like you want it!

Sheesh - it's been well over two weeks since I did the ascorbic acid and the stains are starting to reappear. Fortunately not in huge areas as a brownish tint, but now there are several areas with small to medium specks of rust. Looks like there is dirt laying in those areas. And to top it all off, having been slow with the chlorine recently has given me an algae problem - not serious but a pain just the same. When I put in the ascorbic acid I still had a fairly high level of chlorine so some of the acid was wasted, but I can tell you it was amazing to watch the stains disappear. What I will probably try now is ascorbic acid in a sock and spot treat the stains when the cl is low. But i've just shocked it and may need to wait a while to see if things are still ok. For the pH reading I would recommend bringing your test kit and do your test there then watch them do theirs. I've had some really funny events with my pool store - good guys but not as "excited" about pool stuff as those of us here. In fact, today I got a 15 ppm reading on my cya from them when I know it has to be higher - around 60, which is what I also get. So several possibilities: 1) they didn't really measure the pH, just gave you a number because they were to busy to be bothered or 2) they grabbed the wrong bottle or miscounted the drops 3) they have old, bad or contaminated chemicals or containers 4) You hae old, bad or contaminated chemicals For pH and a rough guesstimate of chlorine in the water I use an electronic ORP/pH meter, then back it up with my test kit, then take a sample to the store.

Thanks for the info. Where do the different (mono- di- and tri-) chloromines come from? I had a few days of not being able to add cl because the plumbing had "challenges", and during this time the weather got stormy and dumped a lot of dead cats and leaves in the pool (despite my solar cover catching much of it). I've removed the cats and leaves (ok, so it was mostly leaves and pollen) and the water is clean but a bit cloudy. I have a high cl level in it now and I'm pumping 24/7 on low speed so I expect things will clear up soon. I've also been slow on cl use over the past few weeks because I had done an ascorbic acid treatment for stainis and I didn't want my beautiful new 18 year old liner to get the stains back. I just ordered the TF Test kit and once it gets here I need to attack this and get it done.

Oh. Dang. :-/ ... Are there no calibration standards for ORP sensors? Hanna claims ± 2mv accuracy. Is this not enough? Recommendations I've seen around the web for minimum ORP vary from 600mv to 740mv. Last year I rarely got much over 600 except immediately after adding bleach and after shocking. I have compared results with my 5ppm cl test kit and it seem to be acceptable. When I have zero cl the meter gives me between 200 & 300, when I have a little but not enough I can see the ORP rise, and when I get over 600mv, the 5 ppm test kit overshoots. I just ordered the TF test kit because the one I have only goes up to 5 ppm cl, and with ~60 ppm CYA I need 7 ppm cl. When it arrives I'll coordinate the cl levels with the ORP readings of my meter and post the results. Until the kit gets here, can I add 50% distilled water to my pool sample to get a multiply-by-2 result for an accurate cl reading using my 5 ppm limited kit? I have investigated controlling a peristaltic pump based on an ORP sensor. Programmable, built-in meters are available that can be used to control a pump but my superficial investigation tells me that this route would be more expensive than a SWclG and I'd still have to lug bleach. Of course the advantage to this would be a constant, accurate cl level at all times. Btw, I just saw the Hanna meter on E-Season gear here for $89.10. I really like this method of measuring the water because - if it works - you don't need an accurate CYA count and you don't need to fuss with chemicals to get the info you want. You just stick the meter in a sample of water, wait a few minutes and you have sanitizing levels, pH and temperature.

Great swim this evening in 30.0°C / 86°F water. At ambient air temperatures between 68° - 72°F, and using a cheap solar cover on a 12x24 ca 8,500 gallon rectangular pool, from starting the fire at 5:10 PM yesterday to 5:24 pm today (24 hours) I was able to raise the temp from 77.4°F to 85.3°F (25.2°C to 29.6°C) I added wood 11 or 12 times which averages out to about every 2 hours, but I went longer periods (over night) without adding, and added more often at other times. Again, this really depends on the type of wood, how dry it is, and how fast you want the pool warm. I also tended it more often, sometimes just checking, sometimes poking, so this is probably near the maximum performance I can expect with my wood supply and without using exclusively the stuff that burns fast and hot. Heating history: date time Temp °F/°C 05 May 17:10 77.4 25.2°C 05 May 18:09 77.5 25.3°C 05 May 18:56 78.1 25.6°C 05 May 19:19 78.3 25.7°C 05 May 19:26 78.4 25.8°C 05 May 19:41 78.6 25.9°C 05 May 19:59 78.8 26.0°C 05 May 20:13 79.2 26.2°C 05 May 20:53 79.5 26.4°C 05 May 21:37 79.9 26.6°C 05 May 21:55 80.1 26.7°C 05 May 22:33 80.1 26.7°C 05 May 23:11 80.8 27.1°C 06 May 00:22 81.1 27.3°C 06 May 08:50 81.5 27.5°C 06 May 09:22 81.7 27.6°C 06 May 09:37 81.9 27.7°C 06 May 09:52 82.0 27.8°C 06 May 10:23 82.2 27.9°C 06 May 11:15 82.6 28.1°C 06 May 12:03 83.1 28.4°C 06 May 13:24 83.7 28.7°C 06 May 14:19 84.4 29.1°C 06 May 14:49 84.6 29.2°C 06 May 15:44 84.7 29.3°C 06 May 17:24 85.3 29.6°C

Since I've become a pool owner I've been oddly fascinated with the hows and whys of the ways pool chemicals work. We all measure free chlorine, but chlorine is more or less effective depending on cya and pH, as well as other things in the water. A more precise way of measuring the disinfecting quality of the water is to measure the Oxidation-Reduction Potential. This seems to give an accurate measure of what the water is doing right now, and includes the effects of pH and cya. Here is one of the articles explaining ORP. Having learned this I searched for a cheap ORP meter 4and got lucky with this one. I really like this device. I've been using it since last year, constantly comparing it with the cl/cya levels and it really seems to be accurate. My goal is to get over 650mv though usually I see something lower than that except just after I've added bleach to the pool. I found it for a little more than $100 plus it needed calibrating fluids, and I can measure pH, ORP and temperature in a few seconds without any fiddling with chemicals. Comments from anyone out there with real chemistry knowledge? Could an ORP/pH meter [mostly] replace chemical cl and pH testing?

Wow, thanks! so ... my 8500 gal pool requires (8500 * 8.3 =) 70,550 BTUs to raise the temp 1° that means I need (70,550 / 1075 = ) 65.628 cu ft gas to raise the temp 1° we're paying about $0.91 / cu.ft. so for every 1° we would be paying (65.628 * 0.91) about $59.72 When the plumbing failed my pool was at about 83.0°F. about 5 days (4 days, 22 hrs) later it was at 77.4 which means a loss of 5.6°F for a loss of about 1.1°F per day. That means in my pool I would expect to pay over $60/day just to maintain the temperature. Can this be right??? If so it's time to build an enclosure.