mlobitz
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Posts posted by mlobitz
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I chose 12.5% chlorinating liquid from my local pool store because it was reasonably priced so was less to carry (roughly half the weight compared to bleach for the same FC level) and they reuse the bottles which is better for the environment than recycling. It's also half the weight for shipping from the manufacturing plant to the pool store. I thank my pool store every time I buy more (about once a month since I get a crate of 4 gallons at a time) telling them that I appreciate their reuse of the bottles and reasonable pricing.
So take the phosfree back and go chlorine only? 500 ppb seems like it stems from the dropping of old willow leaves and a couple of ducks my dog scares away. We have a SWG for chlorine, so I probably will not go to liquid chlorine until the cell dies. Probably soon, SWG is kinda a gimmick if you ask me.
Algae hasn't been a big problem in the past and I'm sure Phosfree being sold to pool owners all over the place at this time of year...
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172/186 came on today when I hit the "C" button to check salinity. Never touched it before in 2 years and now bam....error codes. Cleaned out the cell after 2 years, no sign of scaling, looked very clean. A few tiny rocks from the pebble tech, but that was it. Will disconnect and check the sensor tomorrow.
Any "new" news on the Aquapure 1400 since last August when the last post was...posted. Called my pool company as the pool is still under warranty. Any new places to purchase a sensor online if they give me the run around?
Not much except that the treaded sensors are becoming more hard to get (online) as the new 3 ports rolled out. Don't waste any time, call your PB right away and have this fixed before spring gets here and you run into a back log with the PB.
Also, I doubt this, but I have a trichlor float in the pool for borderline algae control. Water is too cold for salt, but not too cold for algae. About 58 degrees. Would that affect the cell or sensor?
A/P's slowly reduce in Cl production from +/-58 down to 50 where it shuts off altogether.
problem solved. Sensor replaced. Jandy now owed by Zodiac in Vista, CA FYI...
I called earlier today, but it's President's Day, so of course, they were closed. Will call first thing in the morning. I have a three port model from '08. Temp and salinity sensors are working, but the chlorine sensor(?) is out...I guess...
Also, the sensor is showing 2.7 gpl. What happens if I turn the cell on at about 58-60 degrees? I know that's not enough salt, but with a bag it should be up to about 3.1 to 3.2 gpl. If the sensor is bad, will it try to generate Cl or will it show it's reversing?
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Went to Leslie's today for the free 9 point water test. Everything looks good out of the gate, the CYA is a little low at 35ppm, so a little stabilizer will fix that, but I was told that my phosphates, at 500 ppm, were too high. I was told to buy Phosfree to fix the problem, which I reluctantly did. Is this stuff necessary? I'm only going to add a cap full each week for about 8 weeks. Will this stuff mess up the pool or will it really help. My FC will always be around 3 ppm with the SWG.
Little help here...
It will only mess up your pool if you over do it. I'm assuming that this is an outdoor pool? What Phosfree does is it kills the phosphates which is the food for algae. The basic thinking is, you kill the food then you minimize the risk of growing algae. If you keep your cl2 levels and PH levels where they are supposed to be then you don't need Phosfree. An outdoor pool will always have phosphates in it, from leaves, grass, rain and whatnot. I only like to use Phosfree when I winterize the pool.
Think I should keep the bottle until next winter? The lady at Leslie's told me only to use a maintenance amount of two cap fulls a week for 8 weeks.
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Phosphates are typically measured in ppb (parts per billion), not ppm (parts per million). So, you probably have 500 ppb, which equals 0.500 ppm.
I recommend that you return the Phos-free. I don't think that it will help you at all.
What are all of your other chemical readings?
First, let me apologize...I posted this in the wrong area. My bad, thanks for replying non the less...
Anyway...my Cl readings for FC are really high since I have a trichlor floater in the pool to keep the algae down during the winter. Above 5 ppm, The SWG is off for winter and I saw a few small algae blooms, so I wanted to get some Cl in the pool to knock it out. I've been taking PH readings for weeks and it seems OK. I do add acid from time to time, but at Leslie's they told me they could not get an accurate PH since the Cl reading was so high. My pool is 15K gal. so it's not huge. The floater had 4lbs of trichlor and has taken about 4-5 weeks to disperse the Cl in the pool. It still has a bit left. When it goes, I'll go with the SWG. Calcium is 210 ppm, CYA is at 35 ppm(I'll add more after the latest rains go by), Salt is at 2810 gpl and the Alk is around 100.
Also, I had my neighbor take out his huge willow tree that did nothing but drop leaves in the pool.
I don't think I need it. I just cleaned the filter yesterday(cartridge) and I didn't see anything green in there, just lots of dirt.
Sounds like another trip back to Leslie's. Hopefully they will take it back as they wouldn't take back the CYA I wanted to return. In hindsight I needed it anyway. Something about California does not allow the return of pool chemicals even if unused and unopened.
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Went to Leslie's today for the free 9 point water test. Everything looks good out of the gate, the CYA is a little low at 35ppm, so a little stabilizer will fix that, but I was told that my phosphates, at 500 ppm, were too high. I was told to buy Phosfree to fix the problem, which I reluctantly did. Is this stuff necessary? I'm only going to add a cap full each week for about 8 weeks. Will this stuff mess up the pool or will it really help. My FC will always be around 3 ppm with the SWG.
Little help here...
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172/186 came on today when I hit the "C" button to check salinity. Never touched it before in 2 years and now bam....error codes. Cleaned out the cell after 2 years, no sign of scaling, looked very clean. A few tiny rocks from the pebble tech, but that was it. Will disconnect and check the sensor tomorrow.
Any "new" news on the Aquapure 1400 since last August when the last post was...posted. Called my pool company as the pool is still under warranty. Any new places to purchase a sensor online if they give me the run around?
Not much except that the treaded sensors are becoming more hard to get (online) as the new 3 ports rolled out. Don't waste any time, call your PB right away and have this fixed before spring gets here and you run into a back log with the PB.
Also, I doubt this, but I have a trichlor float in the pool for borderline algae control. Water is too cold for salt, but not too cold for algae. About 58 degrees. Would that affect the cell or sensor?
A/P's slowly reduce in Cl production from +/-58 down to 50 where it shuts off altogether.
I called earlier today, but it's President's Day, so of course, they were closed. Will call first thing in the morning. I have a three port model from '08. Temp and salinity sensors are working, but the chlorine sensor(?) is out...I guess...
Also, the sensor is showing 2.7 gpl. What happens if I turn the cell on at about 58-60 degrees? I know that's not enough salt, but with a bag it should be up to about 3.1 to 3.2 gpl. If the sensor is bad, will it try to generate Cl or will it show it's reversing?
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172/186 came on today when I hit the "C" button to check salinity. Never touched it before in 2 years and now bam....error codes. Cleaned out the cell after 2 years, no sign of scaling, looked very clean. A few tiny rocks from the pebble tech, but that was it. Will disconnect and check the sensor tomorrow.
Any "new" news on the Aquapure 1400 since last August when the last post was...posted. Called my pool company as the pool is still under warranty. Any new places to purchase a sensor online if they give me the run around?
Also, I doubt this, but I have a trichlor float in the pool for borderline algae control. Water is too cold for salt, but not too cold for algae. About 58 degrees. Would that affect the cell or sensor?
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The vast majority of chlorine in the water will be bound to CYA when CYA is present. These combined compounds, called chlorinated cyanurates, are not fast-acting sanitizers nor oxidizers so the bulk of the burden is borne by the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) that remains. In a spa at 104F with a pH of 7.5, 4 ppm FC and 30 ppm CYA, 84% of the chlorine is bound to CYA, 9% is hypochlorite ion (not an effective sanitizer) and 7% is the active sanitizing form of chlorine, hypochlorous acid. So CYA provides THREE functions: moderating chlorine's strength, acting as a chlorine reservoir, and protecting chlorine from breakdown from the UV in sunlight. You don't need CYA in your situation for the latter function, but you do need it to prevent chlorine from being too strong. You could alternatively have the equivalent amount of chlorine with no CYA which would be 0.6 ppm, but it is very hard to consistently maintain that chlorine level and have it last long enough. You can think of the CYA as an active chlorine buffer, holding most of the chlorine in reserve and releasing it as needed. The actual oxidizing and sanitizing rates (from chemical reactions), however, depends on the instantaneous chlorine concentration and not on the amount that is in the chlorine reservoir (i.e. bound to CYA or as hypochlorite ion).
All of this is well known science that was definitively determined in terms of equilibrium constants back in 1974 as described in the paper at this link. As to why this is not taught by the pool or spa industry, let's just say that anyone who understands the FC/CYA relationship won't be needing to buy algaecide, clarifiers, shocking the pool, excessive pH or TA balancing products, or more expensive (and profitable) stabilized chlorine. There are 20,000 members of The Pool Forum and 10,000 members of Trouble Free Pool who easily and inexpensively maintain their pools using knowledge and facts rather than industry hype (oh, your TDS is too high; oh, you need to raise the TA to get your pH more stable and not rise; oh bleach isn't the same as other chlorine; oh Trichlor tabs don't build up very much CYA; oh, CYA doesn't matter, or you can have up to 200 ppm before it matters; oh, your phosphate levels are high so you have to use a phosphate remover to prevent algae growth; oh, you need to shock the pool every week; etc.).
You may be able to add chlorine after each use if you add enough so that you still measure 1-2 ppm FC for your next soak. If you didn't have an ozonator, then this would be relatively easy to achieve since you would add enough chlorine for the bather load plus enough for the typical 25% per day chlorine loss when the filter is clean. However, with an ozonator you may find the chlorine loss to be higher at 33-50% in which case you'd need to add more chlorine to not run out. You could probably do 2-3 days between soaks, but not a week without really getting the chlorine pretty high.
Excellent! Thanks for the in-depth reply. I really appreciate it! I really enjoy learning how my pool and spa works. I think I've got it just about nailed. It just not that difficult!
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No offense to either one of you...thank you for your replies, but neither of you answered my question about the spa...any thoughts about that?
You do not use bleach after the refill (except for decontamination which is relatively brief) since it will be too strong. You should use Dichlor first to get the CYA up to 30 ppm (so cumulatively add around 33 ppm FC worth of Dichlor, usually about a week or so) before switching to bleach. This is all explained in Nitro's Approach to Water Maintenance.
Thanks! I've read through the N.A.t.W.M. which is great, but I'm just curious about the UV issue. If the CYA is a stabilizer in the pool for chlorine coming out of the SWG, is it there to protect users from high levels of chlorine or is it to protect the chlorine from UV light? Or...is it both? My spa is covered from the sun, so no UV, or very little UV hits the water. I understand that straight bleach is too strong, but I was curious about the reasons behind it. Sounds like a little of both. Protect the user and protect the chlorine from UV.
Thanks for your quick and courteous replies! Sounds like I will go dichlor out of the gate to get to 33 ppm then go bleach.
Next questions...if I get to 33 ppm on the CYA and I have ozone and AG+ in the spa, can I just add bleach after each use or does it have to be everyday. My general regimen is to hit a little dichlor and MPS after each use. I balance once a week and hit it with some stain and metal inhibitor. I don't want to be checking the thing every day, but I would go out there every 2-3 days.
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Oooh! Ooh! I know the answer to this one!
Yes, it is all the same CYA.
My pool suffers from a surplus of CYA thanks to the previous owners' apparently exclusive use of a tablet floater.
So yes, if you get the CYA level up to some point using the fgloater, you don't need to buy special stabilizer powder
Sorry I missed your last line there. Thanks for answering my question. So if I get my CYA up with the floater each year, then I don't need the stabilizer. That's pretty cool. Kill two birds with one floater. Algae in the winter and plenty of CYA for the SWG in the spring, summer and fall. Cool...
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No offense to either one of you...thank you for your replies, but neither of you answered my question about the spa...any thoughts about that?
Also, do I need to add stabilizer(CYA) to the pool if the floater gets me up to 30 ppm - 80 ppm? I understand all the conversions, so that's not the issue, it's just a simple yes or no...add it, don't add it...take it back to the pool store...just need a little advice on those things...
Thanks!
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I have a SWG pool, but it's winter so the cell is powered down. I have been using a trichlor 1" tablet floater to keep the algae at bay for the past week or so. Can I use the CYA stabilizer that is going into the water as my stabilizer for the season when I'm done with the floater assuming that when I power up the SWG the CYA reading are at say...50 ppm to 80 ppm. The pool receives direct sunlight all year round weather permitting.
Also...I have a 500 gallon spa that is covered by an insulation cover and is under a patio cover meaning it never has direct sunlight hitting the water at anytime. Do I need as high a level of CYA in that water. Dichlor, of course, cranks up the CYA, can I just go to bleach at refill or is that too strong? Do I need to get to 30 ppm if there is no sunlight hitting the water at any time?
Thanks!
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Maybe a dumb questions, but what is the max. pressure you can use to clean a pool cartridge filter insert? High pressure garden hose or is a pressure washer too much. 1600 psi...I'm guessing it's way too much, but I'm just curious...
Also, any hints or caveats about cleaning a salt generator cell? I have a Jandy Aquapure...
Thanks!
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They appear to be the same to me.
I do have a Nature 2 in front of me. The Active Ingredients are:
Metallic Silver** .92%
other ingredients 99.08%
** From Silver Nitrate.
If some one had one of the other boxes to do a comparison.......
edit...
Just did more looking and this site show them to be interchangable.
Ingredients are the same. How they install are different. If you are not careful with the Nature2 version it can end up in your jet pump on a Tiger River. Hot Spring AG+ is easier to install.
Where can you get Nature 2 for $20?
$22.95 with $15 for shipping !!!! What is it? GOLD packaging?
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This is the website I found the Nature2 insert for around $22.99. I'm pretty sure it's free shipping and no tax.
http://www.hottubkingdom.com/nature2products.html
Here is the Hot Spring version at my local shop
http://www.hottubstore.com/auto-ship.html
although it doesn't give a price, their low, low price is $36.99 before tax ($40 after tax) with free shipping every four mouths if you sign up for their program....TOTAL ripoff. I stopped patronizing my local shop as they are SOOO overpriced for chemicals. Nice people, but a huge joke...
5lbs of dichlor at the shop $50!!!
4 lbs of dichlor(same stuff chemically) at Target $12.98
I mean...COME ON!!!
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Is there a difference between Natures2 and Hot Springs silver ion mineral insert? Except maybe the price?
Good question... I'm interested as well. I don't have ozone, and don't seem to have any issues maintaining my water quality, with just normal shocking and occasional chlorine treatment. Wondering whether a mineral insert is even necessary.
I'm in the same boat, but I do have ozone in my tub. Not sure whether it makes a difference or not. I, too, shock once a week and add dichlor and MPS occasionally, especially after use.
Natures2 can be had for about $20 while the Hot Springs insert is closer to $40 in town and $26 online...so there would be a bit of savings either way...
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Is there a difference between Natures2 and Hot Springs silver ion mineral insert? Except maybe the price?
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Help me out here...what exactly is standby power? Is that the power the unit uses when NOT in use. i.e., just the circulation pump and ozone unit in use? I know my circ. pump uses about 80 watts and I have not idea what the ozone unit uses. I have a Hot Spring Grandee rated at 252 standby watts. I know when all the jets are in use that it is using kW.
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Night time temps are in the 50s now. Water temp is in the high 60s. When should I turn off my salt generator? I have it running at 10% with weekly chlorine DPD checks of 3.0 or better. Don't want my water to turn green, but there seems to be plenty of Chlorine in there. PH and TA are all within limits. CH is 250 ppm. So far so good....also, when do I need to clean the generator cell? It's still plugging along without a problem. It has gone through two summers without a single warning to clean from the automated system.
Any help is appreciated.
Depending on which Chlorine generator you have, the unit may turn itself off once the water temp drops to a predetermined temp.
As a good practice, you should take the cell out every month (summer time) and inspect it for build up and clean as necessary, Refer to your manual for your manufacturers specific recommendations.
I have a Jandy Aquapure. It's cylindrical with unions on the top and bottom. The electrical connection is on the side. Anything I need to be aware of before I disconnect the power and unions before I clean. I'm aware of the 2 to 1 ratio of water to acid, yes no water into the acid only acid into water, but what else should I expect. I have cleaned out my cartridge filter, so I'm not afraid to work on the equipment. The pool cleaning service I used to use had me turn the Aquapure off by setting it to 0%. Can't remember when that was last year. I'm guessing somewhere around 55%.
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Night time temps are in the 50s now. Water temp is in the high 60s. When should I turn off my salt generator? I have it running at 10% with weekly chlorine DPD checks of 3.0 or better. Don't want my water to turn green, but there seems to be plenty of Chlorine in there. PH and TA are all within limits. CH is 250 ppm. So far so good....also, when do I need to clean the generator cell? It's still plugging along with a problem. It has gone through two summers without a single warning to clean from the automated system.
Any help is appreciated.
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Rec'd an e-mail from my local spa shoppe. Wow, I would never use these services, but do people really pay this much??? Crazy...
New Services From Hot Tub Store Service Department
You invested in your spa and yourself
Let us help you keep it in tip top shape
Does your spa need a makeover after a long hot summer? Our new services will help you to enhance your spa enjoyment for the upcoming cool weather.
We now offer the following:
* Drain and Refill-This typically takes an hour and 15 minutes. It includes draining, a basic wipe down of the spa, spray out filters, refill, and balance hardness, alkalinity and pH. $179
* Deluxe Cleaning and Detailing-recommended with Drain and Refill-This service is in addition to a Standard Drain and Refill and includes a thorough cleaning of the entire INSIDE of the spa. This would include pulling off levers/bezels and pillows to thoroughly clean as well as cleaning out the motojet canister. $99
* Mold treatment- If you have white water mold in your pipes we can help. This is also done with Drain and Refill. This requires two visits within 48 hours. First visit is a heavy chlorination to kill the mold. Second visit is a standard drain and refill. $99 (Baqua users- $149)
* Exterior Treatment and Cleaning- Complete the cleaning with an Exterior Cleaning (Everwood and Surewood and other synthetic sidings only). Clean and treat with 303 an additional $49 with Drain and Refill.
* Cover Maintenance- Thoroughly clean cover inside and out, treat vinyl with 303, flip cover cores, replace broken clips. $149 if done alone. Only $99 with Drain and Refill. Free bottle of 303 Aerospace Protectant with service!
Save 10% with 2 services
Save 15% with 3 services
Save 20% with 4 or more
Special pricing good through October 31st.
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So we're talking 4 months. The fact that you're using Dichlor means your CYA has been increasing over those four months.
2 TBS = ~10ppm FC * 16 weeks = 160 ppm FC, which = ~140 ppm CYA
1 TBS * 2 per week = ~10 ppm FC * 16 weeks = 160 ppm FC, which = ~140 ppm CYA
That's ~280 ppm CYA, which is conservative. That's a lot!
I recommend draining your tub now. In the future, I'd recommend refilling at least every 2 months, with your bather load. Definitely not longer than 3 months.
Thanks for the info. I'm set to drain and refill this weekend...just as an aside, what are the detrimental effects of high CYA in the tub? Long term exposure to people or general wear and tear on the tub?
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How many people have been using the spa, and how often?
What are you using to sanitize your tub?
Good questions, I should have stated these already.
1-3 people
2-3 times a week max
silver ion insert
ozonator
2 tablespoons of dichlor weekly to shock
1 tablespoon of dichlor after each use
2 oz. of MPS before each use
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I haven't refilled my spa since late October 2008. The water feels fine, no funny smells, PH and TA or within limits and the calcium hardness has held without a problem. I have cleaned my filters once a month by rinsing them in the dishwasher with baking soda. Is there some drop dead time I have to drain and refill my spa or can I just keep it going with proper maintenance.
I have a Hot Springs Grandee purchased in 2008.
No Flow And Cell Reversing On Jandy Aquapure 1400
in All Swimming Pools Types
Posted
Finally had the sensor replaced last Fri., but the readings were high with the intro of salt. Off by about 0.1 gpl from the test at Leslie's. Everything seems to be working now. Jandy was sold to Zodiac and moved it's operation from Moorpark, CA to Vista, CA. FYI....