Warp9

OK, there's got to be something wrong here. It's been draining for about 4 hours. There's not a lot left (water is below the seats), but this is ridiculous. My tub is fairly level with the ground. There is a gentle downward slope from my backyard to the street. I imagine it would drain fairly quickly if I didn't have to attach 100 feet of hose, but I can't very well flood the back yard. I'm going to have to figure out another way to drain this thing. I'll potentially need to do this in freezing weather in a few months, and 4+ hours isn't going to cut it. Larger diameter garden hose may help, but I'm afraid that may not be enough.

I have a 500 gallon Caldera Niagara. I'm going through my first water change after two months of ownership. How long should I expect it to take to drain the tub using the built-in drain? I have 100 feet of garden hose hooked up to the drain, routed to the street. It's draining very slowly. I've been draining for about an hour, and the water level has only dropped about 3 inches. Is this expected?

I'll add another positive experience with pavers. Here's the thread where I first installed the patio. There's a link to photos there. We did the concrete paver patio last year. This year we got the tub. We've had it for about a month and a half. The pavers are doing just fine. I probably have about $500 in the materials for this 10x12 paver patio. My wife and I did all the labor ourselves. It was the first time we'd done a project like that, and I'd say that we had about 45 hours of work between the two of us. The tub is 7.5x7.5, I'm glad I didn't go any smaller than 10x12 with the pavers. I'm also much happier with the look of the concrete pavers than I would be with a concrete pad. I guess it will probably be a few years before I really know if the pavers will hold up. But they've been through one hard North Dakota winter already, and have now had the filled spa for 45 days or so. No settling/shifing yet. I'm very happy with the result so far. -- Greg

It may not show real clearly in the photos, but mine is the Sterling Marble shell as well. I think I can safely say that you'll absolutely love this tub. We've had two soaks so far. The first was a family affair, with the kids (3 and 6) and everyone had a good time. The second soak was this evening, after the kids were in bed, just me and the wife. That is how hot tubs are meant to be experienced!! We probably spent 40 minutes just trying various combinations of jets, no jets, etc. I absolutely love the Euphoria and Whirlpool jets on full blast with air. They're heaven on my tired feet. My wife prefers to dial in some of the smaller jets on softer settings. In a couple weeks, after we've had a chance to really get to know it, I'll write up a full review of this tub. Now it's all about enjoying the tub and mastering water chemistry. I'm hoping the spa frog system makes this as easy as it sounds.

Thanks! I just checked, and it's up to temp. I'm tempted to hop in. Of course it's 1:00am, my wife has been sleeping for a couple hours now already, and I'm trying to catch up on the work I didn't get done today because I was home to accept delivery of the tub. And I don't think my wife would be too happy if my first soak didn't include her! So I'll continue to work for a few more minutes, go to bed, and enjoy an evening of soaking tomorrow. As an aside, it came up to temp (100 degrees) in about 7 hours. Not bad at all!

Now with photos! The full album (including delivery) is located here, but there's also a couple images here so you can get a preview without the extra click:

Well, our long wait is nearly over. We took delivery of a brand new '09 Caldera Niagara today. Just waiting on the electrician now.... They were supposed to have coordinated with the spa dealer, but for some reason the electrician wasn't able to be here during delivery. They should be here any minute now, and the spa dealer will be back out as the electrician wraps things up to go over chemicals, startup instructions, etc. We won't be able to use it tonight (it won't be up to temp), but tomorrow should be glorious!

Thanks, Trigger. Yes, we're definitely in a "snow/freeze zone". It usually hits 30 below zero or colder at least a day or two out of the year. I plan to do a water change in early or mid-september, and perhaps another just before Thanksgiving time. By then I hope to have water care figured out and I'll hope to make it until early April. But I'm getting a bit ahead of myself.... One day at a time.

Just to wrap this thread up, we wet tested a Niagara last week and settled on the Niagara today. We made the purchase and will take delivery as soon as the electric is hooked up, hopefully late next week. Thank you to everyone on this forum who has contributed to the discussion!

We just bought a 2009 Caldera Niagara today. The package included: Cover Cover Lifter (CoverCradle II) Steps GFCI Box Spa Frog Monarch Ozone Delivery and Setup The dealer's initial offer was $9500 + tax. I offered a total of $8800 cash, or $9000 if I put it on my credit card. He seemed to prefer the $9000 on the card, but basically left the choice up to me. So that works out to a purchase of price of about $8450 + tax. I believe I got a reasonable deal, in line with the lower end of what others have reported on this site. Not necessarily the lowest price I've ever heard about, but it's quite a bit lower than the higher prices I've seen paid.

Sounds like great advice! Thanks for sharing your experiences. What I'm hoping to experience through our wet tests is an "ah-ha" moment.... That we'll get into the tub and 15 or 20 minutes later just know that this is the tub for us. We need to test a few more tubs, but I didn't really get that feeling with either the Vanguard or the Flair. And I know it's different for everyone. One of the things really drawing me to these Caldera tubs is what I've read about the strength of the jets. I happen to love powerful jets, especially on my feet and legs. Can't wait to wet-test to see if one of these Caldera models fits the bill!

Our spa search continues. First, let me thank the posters on this forum. Your knowledge is very valuable, and I know we will end up with a better tub for having read the posts here. We've wet-tested the Hotsprings Vanguard, the Limelight Flair, and will soon be testing a Caldera Niagra and/or Geneva. I'm very interested in hearing opinions on the Niagara and Geneva models from people who have wet-tested them, and especially from owners. It's quite amazing what our first wet-tests told us. We didn't think we'd like a lounger, but we happened to like the lounger in the Limelight Flair quite a bit. In fact, we ended up liking the Flair more than the Vanguard, which was very surprising to me, since the Vanguard is the higher-end model. I think the reason we liked the lounger in the Flair was because it is several inches shorter than loungers in other tubs. My wife and I are both about the same height (5'7"), and the large loungers don't work well for us--our feet are usually several inches away from the foot jets. Now we're looking at the Caldera tubs. I'm drawn to the Niagara because the jets and jet placement look ideal. The half-lounge dual-purpose corner seat also looks interesting, especially since my wife and I aren't that tall. The Euphoria volcano jet looks great, too. Of course I won't know if the tub is comfortable until we wet-test (looks like next week). The Geneva also looks good, but I expect we might not like the lounger. But who knows--we liked the lounger in the Flair. So, who's been in a Niagara or a Geneva? Any owners out there want to share opinions? What are your favorite things about these tubs? What do you wish was just a little different? I happen to think this is an ideal time to buy. With the new 2009 models coming before long, and with the slower economy, it seems like the dealers are really willing to make some great deals to draw in customers. We'll probably wait until after the holidays to buy. But if we find just the right tub at just the right price, who knows.

I chose a brick surface after looking at recommendations in the Pre-delivery instructions from HotSpring. The surface should be fine, as long as I installed it properly. I like the brick surface a lot better than a concrete pad, aesthetically. I think it will also be better as far as resale value for the home. If/when we move, I expect we'll probably take our spa with us, and a brick patio in the back yard will probably be more desirable than concrete. I'd love to hear from anyone else who has experience with a spa on a brick patio. Did you run into problems? Did bricks settle and shift over time? -- Greg

I'm finally pretty much finished with laying a brick patio in our back yard. The intent is now to purchase a spa to put on it. I can now finally get serious about shopping for the perfect spa. I still need to get a 240V circuit hooked up, but we're getting closer! For anyone interested in seeing pictures from different stages of the project, take a look here. The patio area is 10 feet by 12 feet, and sits next to our wood deck. I'd estimate that it took roughly 40-45 hours of hard work to complete the project. We're thinking of cutting out some deck railing and installing a small set of stairs that leads directly to the brick patio for even easier access to the tub. Privacy will be an issue, so we'll either get some privacy screens or perhaps install some sections of privacy fence a couple feet away from the patio to enclose the spa on the two sides that are exposed. This would also help block wind, and with North Dakota winters, we need all the help we can get to keep things comfortable. -- Greg

Randy and Dave, thank you both for your replies. We will definitely wet test before we buy anything. I'm not going to drop between $5-10k (includes electrical hookups and other site prep) on a product I haven't tested. We're just starting our research, and we also have to make sure we have a good spot to put a tub, so it could be a while before we buy. I expect to start wet testing sometime in September. I'm in a very cold climate (North Dakota), so insulation and efficiency is a primary consideration. HotSpring and Caldera both seem like good candidates, and I have local dealers for both. Other brands we've looked at so far are Dimension One, CalSpas, and Sundance. The used Vanguard that I'm looking at is actually for sale by a private party who indicated that "according to the dealer", the warranty should transfer (but I'm extremely skeptical about this). I would also assume that I'd have to handle the delivery and installation myself, which is an added cost/hassle, so I imagine the price is very negotiable, and tend to think $5000 is on the high side. The Moto Massage jets in the HotSpring spas look very intriguing, and are one of the features keeping me interested in the Vanguard. We will, of course, wet test to make sure we like these jets and the rest of the features in the tub. Are there any other HotSpring owners out there who can chime in on the Moto Massage jets and their reliability and your overall happiness with them?

My wife and are are just beginning our hot tub shopping. This forum is a great resource, BTW. We're currently leaning towards a HotSpring spa, and I've come across a used 2006 Vanguard model. A new one from our local dealer goes for roughly $9000 (but I haven't negotiated on this yet, and suspect it would come down, perhaps as much as $900 or so based on what others have paid). I expect a used model should be substantially cheaper. How much do spas depreciate in 2 years? Would $5000 be a reasonable price for a used 2006 Vanguard in good shape? Also, will the remainder of the warranty transfer? Or is the warranty only good for the original owner? The way I read the warranty language, it's not transferrable. Does this seem correct? I'm also interested in hearing any feedback on the Vanguard or similar Hotspring spas. Everything I've read indicates they are top-notch spas. Are the moto-massage jets reliable, or can they break or get "stuck"? Is the HotSpring electricity guarantee a real indicator that their tubs are more efficient and better insulated? Or is this primarily a sales gimmick, with other manufacturers providing similar efficiency? Thanks for any insights any of you are able to provide.