hot_water

Roger, If the wood deck got as hot as the Weber grill, which do you think would last longer? As for wood v. metal, I wouldn't think it's much of a point. Wood rots, but galvanized steel rusts. Either will probably outlast your spa. Slow leaks that go unnoticed will be hard on either. I am not a fan of full foam, primarily because of serviceability. Every plumbing joint and penetration of the shell is a potential leak. In my case, I'm not lucky - if it can leak, it will (eventually). Some here will say that leaks are a non-issue, but the service people I talked to before I bought said that they do have to fix leaks in foamed tubs and it is a pain. Open construction can work, it's easy to add insulation if you need to and IMO much easier to repair if you have problems. If you do add insulation to an open cabinet, make sure you don't cause the pumps or electronics to run too hot. Heat is the enemy of reliability for those parts. Even though I'm not a fan of foam, the freezing argument seems like a pure sales ploy to me.

It's a subjective question, of course.... I wouldn't want to go without a cover lift, but again this is all a matter of opinion and your specific installation details. Safe to say, though, that cover lifts make it pretty quick and easy to pop the cover off & on. That aside, my favorite spa add-on is an outdoor shower. Not all that uncommon, but I rigged mine up with a tankless water heater. A cold shower on a cold night after a hot soak wasn't much fun.... but with almost-instant the hot water, it really is now. Plus, you can rinse stuff off your feet before getting in, it helps keep the spa cleaner. I don't recommend this as a DIY project unless you're dead sure you know what you're doing..... 220VAC around water, could put a damper on the fun.

I agree with you, I personally also like it a bit hotter that 104, especiallyt in chilly air temps. Back in the day, tub temps were higher than 104. It feels great and you get a good relaxing soak in a little less time. However, the 104 is a legal limit, due to the increased danger associated with elevated body temperature. Anyone that posted a modification for circumventing the 104 limit would potentially have some degree of be legally liability if anyone out in cyberland made the mods and had was injured or worse. So, on my part at least, I have to say you're on your own. Some people can get overheated easier than others. Pregnant woment, kids, old folks.... and others, too. Even long periods at 104 can give some people serious problems. So whatever you do, be safe and be smart.

Check valve???? Between air injectors and manifold? It's a little quieter here in Moose Lake Minnesota. Can't say. I was at work when the tech came, repair order said "chk valve leak". No more water on the deck since, that was all I needed to know. There's many nice places to live.... we're lucky to be in the US.

Only problem I've had was a check valve that leaked when the thing was new. Otherwise, no problems. Yeah, it's really tough living in the San Francisco Bay Area... dirty work but someone has to do it. Good weekend, _Hot

I've made my points, I think I've said it all a couple of different ways. There's little point in saying it yet again. Some readers will appreciate your position, and maybe one or two will see mine. I'll be in my cheap Costco Hydrospa Legend, lamenting its abysmal quality and hoping it doesn't explode, at least until after I get out. Thanks for the fun (seriously). You're good guys. _Hot PS - Short enough for ya?

Hi Roger, I never said a thing about warranty on the D1. You did. I don't even remember what their warranty is. My only comments about warranty in this thread have been with respect to the little bit I've gotten on the Hydro (from Infinity, and quite good) and the Costco full refund warranty. Both these are... hmmm.... facts. The reasons I don't like the D1 shell is clearly stated in my post - abs is a weaker plastic with a softer surface. It stains easier (is that why there's a row of tiles at the water line?). It is a fact that D1 has abs. It is a fact that abs has lesser mechanical properties. It is a fact that it has a softer surface than CCA acrylic. It is a fact that it is a less expensive material. It is a fact that "most" of the other manufacturers, biggies or cheapies, agree that CCA is a better choice. If you think all these facts are not important, that is your OPINION and I have no issue with it - honestly it doesn't matter to me what kind of spa you like. My opinion is that I bought something else. But that is not the point, you don't seem to be understanding my position here too well. The point is, if I assert that something isn't as good, I'll tell you EXACTLY my reasons for my opinion. Once again, for the umpteenth time.... you_don't_have_to_agree. I am not here to convice you of ANYTHING, it isn't important to me and I clearly couldn't succeed even if I wanted to. I'm just pointing out that if you want to say something isn't as good, it's helpful to state your reasoning so people can say "Oh yeah, that makes sense" or "What a bunch of baloney". You like abs and foam structures? Great, go write the check and enjoy the heck out of it. If YOU want a structure that supports 3000-plus pound of water in a flexible abs shell supported by expanded plastic foam, WONDERFUL, knock yourself out. I prefer other ways of doing things. At least you can make the judgement.... if I just said, "Don't get a D1 they are crap".... well, would that be as useful? But you guys do exactly that with lots of spas that you haven't ever seen. And then you tell someone that calls you on it to come back in ten years. Sheesh. Trigger, I'm not discounting anyone's opinion. My point is that Roger and others are discounting THEIR OWN comments because they don't give their reasons, or when they do, the reasons aren't something that can be checked out. A good example - "Costco spas are cheap junk. Get a (insert poster's favorite brand) for twice as much money and you'll be fine". Does that seem credible to you? This is the internet. No one knows anyone here from Adam. If you say "that Costco spa is junk" I don't know if it's really junk or if you're just selling Hotsprings. Yet some seem to get offended because I'm suggesting that no one should just accept their opinions at face value without a little backup info. As to the diffculty of leak repair on a full foam spa not being a fact... you're not serious are you? On an open spa, you find the leak and fix it. On a foam spa, there is an added little problem of having to dig through the foam. How can that not be more difficult? If you read my posts, you'll see that I believe serviceability is important and foam is harder to deal with. When I was looking at spas, that seemed intuitive to me when I saw HotSprings. But, I understand that people sometimes work out ways to make difficult things much easier. So I asked around. At a dealer that sold D1 and some open spas (I have forgetten the brand, didn't like them). The answer was, "Oh, we can repair them, It is a pain, though. The open ones are easier". If you're actually suggesting that FF is just as easy to repair as an open spa, well, ok, at least you've given your rationale. I don't buy it at all, but at least you've given it. . Again, though, you prove my point. If you think that leaks are easy to fix on a FF tub or that the benefits outweight the problems, I think that's wonderful. It's your money, not mine. But I've told you exactly why I hold my opinion. Heck of a lot more useful discourse than, "I wouldn't buy that Costco thing becasue it's a value line spa and sucks --oh by the way I never saw it and can't point to anything that's not good but I have a jillion years experience so get a HotSpring or D1". My final comment to you is that you really can't say that my "base assumption of quality is wrong". One (very good) definition of quality is that it is a measure of how well a product meets its requirements. Each consumer has his/her own set of requirements, they are not right or wrong. These are the selection criteria by which one decides to buy or not buy, in this case. These could include things like style, performance, energy efficiency, reputation, serviceability, engineering, dealer support, etc. Each of us will naturally weight the factors differently according to our own personal sense of priority. That is why some people drive Toyotas and some drive Hondas and some drive Chevrolets. Some like blondes and some like brunettes (some of us like both). You get to decide if you like FF construction. I don't really care, it's your money. But if the question is, what do you prefer, well, I am going to say, "I don't like FF and here is why". If the question is, what do you think about D1, well, I will say, "it is not what I liked and here is why". Now YOU get to say, "ok, I like his rationale" or "Nope, that's nonsense" or "I think I'll look into that". And you then get to decide if the D1 meets YOUR requirements. YOU however cannot say that MY "base assumptions of quality are wrong". You have no bloody idea what is important to me. I live in CA, it's warm here. I MIGHT have a different priority if I lived in the frozen north. The best any of us can do is state our rationale and give the reader due respect by letting him map the information against his personal selection criteria. It is a little presumptuous to assume that what is important to you is "right" and my "assumptions of quality" are wrong and I must be full of beans if I disagree. It also seems a little presumptuous to say "this thing is crap, and you should agree because I am SpaGod and you are just a consumer and I know best". I do not want to trash D1 of HotSpring, I'm sure they give much pleasure to their owners. Those brands were not my choice, though. I offer my comments only as an example of a rationale that is useful as back up an opinion. I'm not saying it's a good rationale for anyone else -- but it was my rationale. People should be able to review the merit of the argument and make their own decision, that's all. By the way I like redheads, too.

Roger, you're making my point for me better than I ever could. I'm not saying that the Legend is the greatest tub ever. I bought it based on an objective assessment and I'm satisfied. I use it as an example because I have first-hand experience with it, and I don't like to talk out of my derriere about things I haven't even seen. All you've said is that I must be blind if I can't see the quality in the spas you favor compared to the Hydro. Ok. That's a valid opinion, but it's just an opinion. You could be 110% correct. But no one will be able to judge the validity of your argument if that's all you can offer up. I guess we could wait 10 years and see how my Hydro does or how the LaZboy does... not really a very helpful approach, is it? I kinda think people don't really want to wait that long -- they're looking for some reasonable information to support near-term purchases, no? By the way, a D1, which has an abs shell AND full foam, is even lower on my list than a HotSprings. My reasons are: First - The full foam is a unquestionably a more difficult leak repair than an open spa. Second - ABS is a soft plastic with extremely poor mechanical properties, and is easily marred and stained. I've used a lot of abs. It's claim to fame is, it's one of the cheapest plastics there is. Many flavors of ABS also do not do well under UV exposure (sunlight). However, I will acknowledge that there are formulations of ABS that do better nowadays. Maybe D1 uses a better formulation - I do not know, it bears looking into if you like a D1. The only advantage ABS has in my book is, it's cheaper. Sadly, in my judgement, it looks cheaper. Third - I very strongly suspect that the D1 NEEDS the full foam for structural support because the ABS shell doesn't have sufficient stiffness on its own. Let me also qualify that by saying that is an opinion, but an educated one. I didn't verify that statement because I ruled out D1 before I needed to look into that. But if my supposition is right, we should know that foam is not a good structural material, you should not be using the foam as structural support. On the other hand, I believe CCA as a surface with fiberglass on the backside is an ideal shell material. It is stiffer, stronger, harder and to my eye, much better looking. Lots of your upper crust spas seem to agree with this. Those are my reasons. See how easy that was? Now, YOU don't have to agree, I don't even care if you agree. But I think I've given a shopper something to consider and maybe look into further before he lays down his benjamins. And if HE disagrees, well, that's fine, at least he goes in with eyes open and not trying to look through smoke and mirrors. BTW, I know lots of guys on drafting boards and shop floors that thought they knew more than the engineers. Some engineers aren't too good, it's true. Some doctors, lawyers, and United States Presidents aren't too good, either Some spa techs might not be too good. Personally I wouldn't get in an airliner if it was built by someone that thought he knew more than the engineers. He doesn't, and is arrogant to think he knows more than the team of engineers that worry about engineering 50 hours a week. In my world, people with good ideas are encouraged but they have to submit them to engineering for review. By the engineers. Who worry about a lot of details, second and third order effects and obscure behaviors that many folks might not be aware of at all. Inspectors are there to make sure that stuff is built like the drawings.... with all due respect, there are pretty obvious reasons for all that. But I wouldn't want to insult anyone.... As fiveofakind says, I really do appreciate a lot of what you offer people here. It's really good stuff. But in my opinion you are off the mark on this topic. Peace.

Spatech, I have no doubt that there are crummy spas out there. No issue with that comment at all. I also have no doubt that Costco has sold some of them. But not all spas sold by Costco are crummy. Seems to me that generalizations based on vague and imprecise notions of quality don't really mean much. Now, on the other hand, if you want to say something like, "That particular spa uses copper plated framus connectors and those corrode badly", well that's some real good information. A buyer could go and say, "damn... a copper plated framus connector, I better stay away from that one". Now that's would be useful. But I'm not getting that, and I didn't get it when I was shopping. Instead, I read that "Costco stuff is cheap junk and will fall apart" with no explanation as to what will fall apart or what exactly is better about the alleged high-quality spa. Sorry, but "trust me, the spas at Costco are crap" doesn't hold a lot of sway with me. That view may in fact prove to be right. But I can't determine anything from what is written (_no_objective_information). If you've seen a Legend, then I would be interested in hearing exactly what you like and don't like about it. At this point I've bought one, but I could upgrade, redesign or repair if we could point to something that was poor quality. I imagine that the guy that started this thread would like to hear some real information about the LaZboy he was looking at, rather than, "it's a price point spa I have never seen, but it must be junk".

HillBilly, my Balboa seems to work fine. I push the buttons and it turns stuff off and on for 17 months now. Do you know for a fact that my tub has one of the controllers you're talking about? Do you know which tubs in particular do? It might be useful to push that list out so that people considering a tub would know. I think that would be good useful information that a consumer could follow up an and ask about. I believe that my tub has a Balboa VS - not the top of the line, but has a good reputation and seems to be working fine. I agree that thin acrylic might give a problem. In my view, consumers should carefully look at this. My Legend has a nice thick shell. If I have in fact misjudged, I will get 100 percent of my money back, including sales tax. Or if ANYTHING happens that I don't like, for that matter. If a HotSpring or Sundance or whatever name brand spa shell cracks or blisters or delaminates, or just plain fails in ten years, will the buyer get a full refund? I have not returned a spa. I have returned other stuff. It's never a problem. Costco's policy is posted on the wall of their store. I did ask about returning something that I've had for about 7 years that I coudn't get parts for, and they said, "Yup, we'll take it back". I made a part for it and decided to keep it. Can't speak to Home Depot or Walmart price points. Costco has a good price for a couple reasons, as I've said. Very, very low markup is a huge part of it - and it's a big reason that ALL the stuff in their stores is cheap. You don't see many ads for Costco, do you? Think about it.... they don't pay for radio, TV or newspaper ads, no commissioned sales people, and they run a warehouse full of toilet paper and laundry detergent and other commodities that fly out of there rather than a dedicated store moving a few expensive spas per month.

Again, personal attack rather than some reasonable discussion. I will stand by my comments on full foam construction. I have a good reason for that viewpoint. You don't seem to be willing to cite yours. BTW, Costco offered a Hotsprings model for a while. I do appreciate that you in particular offer lots of constructive tech advice in this forum.... I just disagree with your approach to this particular topic. I don't think I am going to convince you of anything, nor do i particularly want to. I am more interested in convincing consumers that might be reading this that they should try to make their decisions based on objective information and not rely on irrational Costco (or Home Depot, or Brand X) bashing. Please notice that I'm not commenting on the LaZboy or whatever it is, since I haven't researched that one. I still bet you have never actually laid eyes on a HydroSpa Legend. I would suggest that you might benefit from understanding Costco's business philosophy a little better. They really do try to offer good stuff. They also take care of their members. They even have a reputation for being a good employer. I like Costco because they are, in my view, able to to do well for themselves without screwing anyone. Classic "win-win". I don't hold the same opinion of all mass merchandisers. If someone else out there in forum-land were to decide to buy from Costco (based on some solid reasons, I hope) I might suggest that they take the difference between what they paid and what they might have paid at an expensive dealer and buy some Costco stock. Might just end up paying for the spa that way....

I actually do respect a person having years of experience. But unfortunately in this particular case, your'e not citing anything that is objective or concrete. You're just saying the quality of one make is good and another is poor, and when asked exactly what is better, it comes down to "Ihave experience and you are a lowly consumer".. Ok fine. On the other hand, you turn the discussion personal by trivializing my conclusions. You have no idea what I did or what I know. It is not even relevant. My point is that you have to have some real information before you can proclaim something is either junk or high quality. What is the problem with that? Once again, have you ever even seem the innards of a Hydrospa Legend? I have seen the innards of all the major manufacturer's spas. I am not in the spa business. I do however have 29 years experience as a mechanical engineer. I like to think I know a bit about machinery. And, a spa isn't exactly the space shuttle, you know. You can reduce that to insignificance by characterizing me as having kicked tires for a few weeks. Ok, whatever. I think my point is made. Balboa is good stuff. CCA acrylic shells are good (I think they're a way better choice than ABS) GE is a good motor (it IS). The jets pretty much ALL come from two manufacturers. and on and on. Again, all I'm saying is that if you are going to say something is good or not good, in my lowly consumer opinion it needs to be backed up by what exactly is good or not good. There are many thousands of dollars between a Hydro and a Sundance or HotSprings. If they cost the same I personally would STILL choose the Hydro over the HotSprings, hands down, just because of (my opinion on) the full foam. I would probably also choose the Hydro over the Sundance, based on the total picture of quality and feature set, but it would be a much tougher call. In case of a tie, Costco full lifetime refund has some real weight, no? All that aside, look at this question logically. If you are a little spa manufacturer and you want to sell through Costco, part of the deal is that Costco will make you agree to take back Customer returns NO MATTER WHAT. Costco doesn't absorb the returns. Now, that being the case, are you going to put a poor quality tub in Costco and risk lots of returns? I don't think so, at least not if you have any business sense at all. You're going to put the best thing you can into Costco because otherwise you will buy back a lot of product. It's a pretty good strategy on Costco's part. Is it a guarantee of high quality? Nope. But neither is a fancy showroom and a slick sales guy on a commission. You're right about that... the sales pitches aren't very useful. They're a lot like some of the forum opinions on quality, come to think about it.

I told you pretty much exactly how I arrived at my conclusions. I looked at how the spa was made, what components were in it and how well the features and design lined up with my needs. I never said it was the same as Sundance. I said the quality of the parts was as good, on the whole, and they are. No I don't repair spas for a living, I design things (not spas). In this case I have actual experience with ONE Costco spa. Have you even ever seen a HydroSpa Legend? What exactly about its design or manufacture is poor quality? Other than it came from Costco? What is it about the Balboa in that spa that works poorly compared to Sundance? My Balboa seems to work fine. I can buy parts for my spa for cheap if (when) they do fail, I don't have to get overpriced parts from the Sundance store. What is it about the 56 frame GE motors in my spa that is inferior to Sundance? Are they actually GE "econo-line low-end value" motors? Give us a break. Should I go check my spa shell for cracks or deterioration shell because you suggest, with no specifics, that it's not as good as Sundance? What's not as good about the CCA acrylic with fiberglass? Jeez, my low end value cheapie seems to be fine, no flexing, no staining, no blisters and no problems... if it ever does have a problem guess what... I get a full refund. Tomorrow. Or ten years from now. Does that clear up my reasoning?

Well, you are free to have your opinion, but I will stand by my comments. Vague words about one brand not being in the same league as another are exactly what I'm commenting on. I also stand by my advice, offered in good faith, that persons shopping for spas should do objective research and reach fact-based conclusions before they make their decision. Balboa VS controls, GE motors, 78 stainless jets, thick CCA acrylic/fiberglass shell, standard synthetic cabinet (I could go on) are all good things. Sundance doesn't do better than GE motors or Balboa controls. Their shell isn't any better, it's made of the same stuff. Sure some models may have the better Balboa unit. But if you look at the total package, my spa stacks up very well. You don't have to think so. I have to think so. I made an educated, fact-based decision, and so far I still think I made the right choice. I agree that HydroSpa wasn't perfect. But neither is Sundance or HotSprings (which, along with any full-foam spa, I would NEVER buy). When you look at the total package, Costco Legend was a very nice spa, works great (kinda the bottom line), uses top notch parts, had features that I was looking for, and has a FULL LIFETIME SATISFACTION WARRANTY with a guaranteeed refund, no questions asked. Apart from that, your definition of quality and value may be different than mine. I doubt we look at things the same way, and *that is fine*. Someone may decide that Sundance is better, some may like Hot Springs (ugh), some may like Dimension One (Lord knows why). Personally I really liked Sundance... great spa, very nicely finished. My friend has one, it's nice and I like it a lot. Also, I can afford it, and very well might have. However, I bought a HydroSpa, and I feel that it accomplished my objectives and happened to do so for less money. Hmmm... satisfying your objectives and spending less... on the planet I come from, we call that "saving money". As it happens I am capable of doing my own work and electrical installation and in fact I did it. All to code, with permits. But that aside, I'm a little perplexed as to what the dealer actually does for the consumer after he delivers the spa to the yard. Around these parts, the proud new owner has to pay for the electrical installation. I can get my water tested for free at Leslie's Pool Supply and their chemicals are cheaper than at the spa dealer. Plus, Leslie's is closer. So unless the spa is broken, I don't actually see why I need anything from a dealer! Maybe to replace some pillows... oh never mind, I can get those online. I paid a spa mover $250 to meet me at Costco, load the spa up, use their special dollies to get it into the yard, set it up with the cover lift and all that. The dealer would do that for free. As I see it, that's about it in terms of what you really would get from a dealer. Now, as I said in my earlier post, if you would prefer to write one check and not make some phone calls (perfectly reasonable approach for many folks) then you don't want to go the Costco route. As for your comments on warranty, I think you missed my point. I can't really comment on HydroSpa warranty because I never used them. But Costco is now backing up the warranty and they are right on it. In contrast, internet spa forums have lots of posts detailing horror stories from people who bought at dealers. So the premise that dealer service is better than Costco service doesn't seem to be a very good one. Oh, I do believe that there are great, responsive dealers out there. But we should be real, not all of them are. On the other hand, Costco may not be perfect, either. But -- my experience with them and Infinty Spas has been perfect and -- if you get unhappy AT ANY TIME, you can pay a spa mover $250 or thereabouts to take your spa back to Costco and they will give you your full price back. Will Sundance do that? How about Hot Springs? The Costco return policy is a HUGE plus. Period. As far as servicing the spa goes, yes, I can fix my own. But a lot of dealers (maybe not HotSpring or Sundance) will work on a Costco or Home Depot tub, no problem. Why wouldn't they, they will get paid just the same. If someone is trading off buying a dealer spa against a mass merchandiser spa, they can make a few phone calls and will find that getting service is not really a problem. Or, if it gets to be a problem, take the thing back to Costco and get a refund. I guess in summary I just can't drink the Kool-Aid about how Costco spas are throw aways and cheap junk and all the other insinuations. To me it's all nonsense. I own one, it runs real well and contains high quality parts. Costco may sell some crummy spas, but that needs to be based on some facts about the specific spa, not just based on the fact that it comes from Costco. Sorry, but in my view, trashing an item because it comes from Costco is just plain silly.

If you have a specific question, this forum (or any other) might be helpful. Many peole here are good technical resources. But unfortunately, asking a subjective question along the lines of "What do you all think about ( insert brand name) Spas?" won't get much information of value. Especially when the thing you're interested in is from Costco. Costco sells spas - and just about everything else - very inexpensively. Small businesses, many of whom are represented by posters here and on other forums, can't compete with the buying power of a store like Costco. So you will hear lots of fluff about "price point spas" and "low-end" spas versus "high-end" and other such flowery rubbish. What you won't hear are the facts. Costco doesnt' make a lot of money off of spas. They make a lot of money off of toilet paper and 5 packs of Right Guard and 12 packs of socks - things that people buy lots of. In the Costco scale of things, they sell a few spas, mostly as a customer service because members want them. They negotiate great deals with the spa makers because even though, in Costco terms, they aren't talking about a huge number of spas, it IS a very significant number to a spa manufacturer. The result is that Costco gets a good price. And, significantly, the manufacturer has to agree to take back any member returns. Ouch, that's gotta hurt, but it is the price of getting your stuff in a Costco store. Works out pretty well for the members, though, and that is what Costco is trying to do. You also won't hear from the Costco bashers that Costco NEVER marks anything up more than 14%. High buck items (like, uh, spas) are usually marked up much less than 14%. So between their buying power and the fact that they have tiny markups, that is a big part of the reason the Costco spa is less money than the local dealer's equivalent spa. Spa dealers have pretty showrooms, well dressed sales people on commission, and maybe better service, installation services, etc. But you have to PAY for all that. You can be deadly sure that the local spa dealer is charging a lot more than 14% markup. Nothing wrong with this by the way. I had a business in a past life (not spa related) and marked things up as high as I could. 100% was a nice number when I could get away with it. It's the American way. But I didn't compete with Costco (thank God!!) You just have to decide if you want to hassle with getting the thing home, set in the yard, find your own electrician, and all that. If you want to do these things, Costco is really good. If you want to write a check and have it all happen, maybe you need to make another choice. All Costco spas aren't that cheap. I have a HydroSpa Legend, it cost $5000. That's just not all that cheap, but it's a few thousand less less than I would have paid for an equivalent Sundance or whatever. Sadly, the deal with Costco didn't work out well for HydroSpa, they went under. But you know what? My spa is absolutely great in every respect. It has GE 56-frame pump motors and Balboa spa pack and a nice thick acrylic shell and synthetic side panels and 78 (!) stainless jets and every other bell & whistle. What exactly is a high end spa? Well, I have to laugh at those posts because they are just silly. My Legend is essentially indistinguishable from my friend's Sundance and has the pretty much the same stuff under the hood. Most importantly, it works GREAT. The jets will push you out of the seat. Everything works every time (I've had it for 17 months). When HydroSpa went under, Costco stepped up and they are paying Infinity to handle warranty. I had a little issue with a little seepage on mine and called. The people at Infinity jumped on the problem and made it go away instantly. They're in Texas but the problem was handled as easily as if they were up the street. Now, yes, I did have a little leak in the spa. Read the forum..... ALL the spas have issues, irrespective of brand. Don't drink the Kool-Aid. Before I bought, I did a ton of research. I live in Northern CA, and a LOT of the major manufacturers have dealers here. I visited them all - most, two or three times. Yes, I read these forums. Everyone has an opinion.... they generally don't agree, and they generally don't make a lot of objective sense. So, I had to look at the tubs based on their engineering and the real differences in materials, components and construction. I'm actually a mechanical engineer by profession and tend to think along those lines anyway. I ended up with the HydroSpa, and I'm very glad I did. I'm sure other spas work well too. But I'm very happy with mine and the price I paid for it. Here's my point. Go look at these spas. Look under the hood. Visit the Balboa and Gecko websites and learn. Look at the pumps and motors, and see if they are 56 frame or 48 frame. Also find out who makes good motors and who makes lesser quality motors. Look at the plumbing. Look a the serviceability. Oh, I know people will go ballistic but I think you have to be totally nuts to get a full foam spa. These things are tubs of water with 50 or 60 openings and probably about a hundred and fifty plumbing connections inside. It's all commercial grade plastic plumbing and is subject to huge vibration due to the pumps and all. Do you really think its unlikely that over the course of years it won't develop a leak or two? Do you want to pay someone to excavate through a full foam tub to fix it? Or should I say, do you want to write the check when they're done? Oops I digress.... the point is, make SURE the thing is easy to service, because you WILL service it before you replace it. Then, read the forums - BUT - take any of those opinions (including mine) with a huge grain of salt. Learn to recognize and separate out the nonsense. My Legend is great, I wouldn't part with it. the interesting thing here is, I could. Costco will take it back. Now having said all that.... I haven't looked at the model you're asking about so I have no opinion at all!