Dan.The.Spa.Man
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Posts posted by Dan.The.Spa.Man
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I am looking for help in understanding how to remove the wet end of my Wavemaster 7000 Jet pump in my 1999 Sovereign.
I have removed the pump from the spa, taken off the pump casing via 8 SS screws to expose the impeller. The impeller does not spin freely - binds quite a bit at one spot on the rotation hence I believe it fell victim to freeze damage from previous owner. I have also removed the air shroud on the other end of the pump to expose the end of the shaft that has a slot for a big screw driver. I am guessing that if I can hold the shaft in place the impeller either spins off in a clockwise or counter clockwise rotation. Is this correct? Please advise.
Looking at the cost of parts, etc. I am leaning towards buying the complete wet end of the pump reinstalling since I am guessing the casing is cracked with a leak, needs new seals/bearings, etc. and at $87 on backyardplus.com it appears to make sense. Thoughts?
While I have the pump motor out should I take it to a shop to check the overall condition - i.e. bearings & shaft? Any recommendations for a shop in the Atlanta area?
Thanks,
Dave
Hypothetically the impeller will unthread counterclockwise. If the seal assembly had been leaking for a while it may be hard to get off though. I usually put a pair of vise-grips on the shaft and they will lock in against one of the legs of the wet end when you try to unthread the impeller. The screwdriver slot is hard to keep ahold of if the impeller is really locked on tight. I am able to get them off about 1/2 of the time like that, the other 1/2 of the time you have to break it off.
The key is to make sure the shaft is not corroded too badly once the impeller is off. Once it is all apart you can run the pump off of a regular cord and use some sandpaper cloth to smooth out the shaft while it is running.
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I have a 1999 Hot Springs Sovereign. I noticed last night that the red light was blinking and the temperature did not seem as hot as usual. I turned off the breakers to the electrical box, but that did not stop the blinking (when I turned the electricity back on). (I've done this probably 5 times since yesterday.) Nothing happens when I push the temp buttons, the light button or the jets button.
I thought if there was an easy fix, I might be able to do it. Otherwise I'll have to have a service call made. I know nothing about this spa other than how to turn it on, add chlorine and clean the filters. Is this a common problem? Will it cost a lot to have the Hot Springs dealer to come out and fix it (if it's not an easy fix)? I just had all new windows in the house replaced last week, so I'm strapped for cash, but it turned cool here in NE Florida, so it's finally spa weather!
SA
So when you reset the power, does the light start flashing right away? If so then you most likely need a new hi-limit thermistor.
Is there good flow coming from the circulation pump up through the bottom drain? Try taking the filters out and reset power.
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I am considering buying a 1999 HS Sovreign I For only $300. The owner shared that the heater has a freeze crack in the main plastic housing and he did not want to pay to fix it. He bought the tub from the original owner.
I checked it out today and asked that he fill it even with the heater leak so I can confirm that the circ pump works as well as the Wavemaster 7000 etc.
When filled and pwered up all appears fine. When I hit tthe jet button it comes on but does not move water. Almost sounds like it is stuck - debris in the impeler? After 15 seconds or so it trips the breaker.
Does anyone here recognize these syptoms? Could it be that although the tub is wired up for 220 svc (30 - 20 amp braker) that the jumpers arent set properly?
Does it sound like the pump is shot?
The owner does not know much about tubs as a customer sold it to him 2 years ago for only $600 and he appears to sound fair. He is telling me that if it needs more than a heater he will take an even lower offer.
Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
The tub may be worth fixing but I wouldn't pay anything for it. With all of the potential problems it should be a "free tub, you haul it away" type deal.
As far as the pump, sometimes the bearings get a little tight when they sit unused for a long period of time. You may be able to get it going by getting a pair of vise-grips on the shaft and jockeying it back and forth. If not, you may see that the seal assembly had leaked badly and could have corroded and caused the impellar to expand and break.
Did the circ pump come on?
How is the cover?
Is the tub in an area of the country with freezing temps? If so it could have significant leaks.
You could get lucky and just need the heater, but may need a pump, cover, circ pump, and leak repair.
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true, but....... how many have been encountered on a spa circuit board? this forum has not one complaint or picture of burned up spade connections on a board. The connectors don't heat up, the relays usually do.
I've encountered tons of burnt spade connections. I'll start taking pics if you want.
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Update.
The heater resistance is around 8.5 ohms.
I just noticed that when I reset the power, the heater LED comes on for about 10 seconds.
Then I hear a relay "click" and the heater LED goes out.
Yes the thermistors are original. Is there any way to check them?
Will try replacing them first.
Mark
You can check the resistance on those too. The reading depends on the water temp, but they should both read about the same value.
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I have a 10 year old Hot Springs Prodigy that quit heating.
This spa had an older style trumpet heater so I installed a new style replacement heater.
This was advertised as a Watkins but It looks like a reproduction model. The price was $209
so I figured I'd keep it and take my chances. The quality looked decent.
After replacing it I restored the power and felt the heater was warm so I left it heat-up overnight.
The next morning the water was cold.
After a bit of investigation I decided my circulator pump was bad so I replaced that as well.
Now I can see a nice vigorous plume of water coming-up from the outlet in the bottom of the spa
as well as the little outlet hole in the filter compartment. I did not have this before I replaced the pump.
I restored the power but the heater never got warm. I noticed the little green reset button was tripped so I reset it.
Still no heat. Today I measured 115 VAC on the heater relay board. Also measured 115VAC on the circulator pump leads on
the motherboard.
The red heater LED is not on. The heater reset button is not tripped.
I'm afraid my new heater bit the dust. At this point I'm going to try checking the heater with an ohm meter.
Does anyone know what value I should see on this?
Thanks for any advice.
Mark
Somewhere between 9-15 ohms usually.
If the heater LED is not lit up then the tub is not trying to heat. There is either a problem with one or both of the thermistors or the control head could be bad. Most likely a thermistor.
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Wow, if that is true is shows a lack of basic spa plumbing knowledge and a lack of testing and controls. The major, reputable spa makers would not make that kind of rookie mistake.
That is clearly a female elbow fitting, and the flex is clearly smaller than the elbow. Looks to me like a pvc nipple inside the flex as strain relief to better support the joint. Clamp wouldn't help b/c the seal is between the outside of the flex and the inside of the elbow.
I would have thought the same thing a month ago. The recent pieces I have seen look like regular PVC slip fittings at first glance, but instead of being able to slide the flex inside and glue it, they have a smaller diameter nipple coming out of the elbow (which is a formed piece, not a glued in nipple). The flex was actually glued over the nipple.
I'll see if there are any of the pieces still kicking around at the shop when I get in on Monday. If so I'll take pics.
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Whatever...
- I haven't seen one complaint of a Strong joint leak
- I have read lots of complaints about other tub leaks and terrible access through the foam
- Spatech has seen, "rash of people in lately with flex over pvc type fittings" - I'm sure these weren't Strong
- Where are the pictures of the internals of so called "premium spas" so we can compare?
Visitors to this board should realize that the techs who keep complaining about Strong never reveal first hand experience with Strong spas. Blah, blah, blah...
First off...I am not complaining.
Secondly, this thread was started as a question to the experts about what they see in the photos and specs. As someone who has worked on tubs for over 21 years, I would be amazed if the tub in this photo has vinyl hosing pvc glued "over" a nipple type fitting on what is claimed to be a 4hp pump a mere 4 inches away from the discharge side of the pump.
It was however just a question as I am not sure if it is actually the case.
You have heard about other tubs leaking because some other companies have been around for 20, 30 or more years and have sold over 1,000,000 tubs. With this incredible volume and timeframe leaks are going to happen.
It wasn't SPatech that has seen the rash of these problems lately...It was me. As I said, I don't know what brand they were from, but whatever brand or brands that they are from....it is horrendous engineering. I will start asking now.
I don't have any Costco's near me and I don't run into any Strong tubs so I don't really have any problems with the company or the people who buy them...just asking a question to DK about his tub.
Lastly, you can't see the internals of the so called "premium tubs" because they are encased in insulative foam.
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DK...are you sure that the PVC flex in this pic goes into the elbow and doesn't go over a nipple sticking out of the elbow? Just making sure you are positive....it may just be the picture but it really looks like there is a white nipple under the flex. If so it needs to get clamped as Guru said. I've had a rash of people in lately with flex over pvc type fittings with glue joint leaks. Not sure what type of tubs they are coming from, but it's not a good method at all.
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trips after about half the day
Do you see any or very much flow out of the bottom drain? Usually you should have enough to make the surface have a ripple on it from the flow. Did you try running it without the filter?
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What year tub is it and is the summer timer function possibly on?
Is the circ pump working properly?
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Does anyone know a good source for replacement cover cores (other than OEM / dealer)? I poked around on google and it seems most people want to make a whole new cover for me, which I would rather not pay for right now.
We have a ~2006 Tiger River Bengal. One of our cover cores are extremely water logged - I'd estimate the core weighs over 100 pounds due to the water right now. The other one wasn't bad at all. I'd like to just replace the one core and get on with hot tubbing again; maybe replace the full cover in the summer. I also checked craigslist and ebay but didn't find anything useful in terms of replacement covers.
I also notice the places that make covers all seem to want to make tapered covers now; ours is not tapered. Obviously a tapered core wouldn't fit our non-tapered cover.
Is it the original cover? If so I doubt that you would get a new core into the vinyl, which shrinks up and gets brittle over time. Also, if it is original then the Watkins covers are tapered from about 3.5 to 2.5 inches.
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Hello,
One month ago - I drained and refilled my tub. Since that time, the control board on my Hot Springs ACE salt system has been reading LOW SALT/CHECK CELL - my control board is showing the salt level very low - bottom of screen (not in the acceptable range). I have taken a few water samples to my dealer to ensure that the salt level is fine and I have water chemistry correct (I do have a phosphate issue, but my dealer said this should not interfer with the cell reading my salt level).
My cell has been cleaned on a regular basis and has always been clean. I am thinking my Cell may be bad, but not sure. My one year warranty on my ACE system is just about up and I want to make sure the issue is resolved prior to the one year warranty date.
Any advice is appreciated!
Thks
I also have had the same problem with my 2010 Hot springs Vangaurd with the Ace system. I have had the cell replaced 3 times now. My local dealer just told me that when Hotsprings drilled the sand tube where the cell is located the hole was not drilled correct. So Hotsprings has a new riser tube and a new cell that there going to put in to correct the problem.
It's not where they drilled the holes in the stand-pipe, it's the depth of the cell in the stand pipe. The new stand-pipe has the identical hole design (though I've heard several dealers claiming the holes where the issue- I think something got lost in translation between the engineering and dealer support rep's), but it has a modified bottom, that supposedly lets the cell rest at the identical height among all models, and according to the engineers, *this* is what's causing the issues. I'm taking more of a wait and see approach[/b].
Haha....wise man. I'm doing the same thing. I don't buy it yet.
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My Tiger River Bengal hottub heater reset button keeps tripping. What is the cause?
Most likely problem is either a dirty filter or the circulatiopn pump needs to be replaced. Try running it without the filter and see if anything changes. Does it take days to trip or do it right away?
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Thanks! I will give it a try. I have suspected the circulation pump for a while, so I will probably replace it (had to knock on it with a screwdriver a while ago to kickstart it). Thanks again!
Yep...that's when it's about ready to go.
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So I have an older hot tub, this summer I got around to sealing it up as it had a small leak. It holds water great now! So I filled it up, ran the jets, turned on the heater. The breaker kept tripping, so I unplugged the heater from the hot tub control board and it stopped tripping the breaker. After inspecting the wire I noticed it had started to burn slightly. I am unsure whether this had happened a long time ago or recently. I purchased the hot tub used and used it one winter and it has sat for one winter. Fortunately for me I found a website that carries the correct heater element to replace if I have to go that route. I although I would strongly prefer not to do it. The heater got hot and ran for about 3 minutes before it tripped the breaker, now it trips it instantly.
Here's a link to the replacement parts for my hot tub, it appears a heater element is 100+! Replacement heater for all 110 volt 1980-1994 Hot Spring spa models.
I have several questions...
1) Do I have to replace the element? Is that what is causing the cord to burn? How do I test to see if the element is bad?
2) Since the cord is burned at the end and consistently tripping the breaker, could I just rewire a new plug onto the cord? It appears as though the cord attaches directly to the element.
3) If I could just replace the plug at the end of the cord, where could I find another plug like the one that was burned? It appears this may be the correct wiring/plug although it is made for a Watkins jet pump. http://www.backyardplus.com/proddetail.php?prod=10409&cat=94
To clarify this cord is running from the heater to the hottub control board(or whatever the correct term would be).
You can test the heater element by setting a multimeter to ohms and checking continuity of the element and current leakage to ground. Between the two round prongs (on the plug end) you should get a number between 9-14. Can't remember exactly.
You will probably find your problem when you check the ground. Put one meter lead on 1 of the round prongs and the other lead on the flat ground prong. It should read "Open Line" O.L. or 0. If it reads any regular numbers then it's bad.
Also, you may have another problem. If the heater got hot and was tripping the hi-limit button then you either had an air-lock or the circ pump is bad. I would try to determine if the circ pump is pushing water now before you order an element or do anything else.
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Hey guys, any help would be appreciated. I have a 2002 Hotsprings Vanguard hot tub. About a week ago I noticed that the red light on the control panel was flashing (green temp. light not lit). I checked the temp and it was a little low, tried the control panel and everything was locked up (no temp control and couldn't kick on the jets, but control panel light did come on). I reset the system by kicking off the breakers for ten minutes and everything worked fine for a week. Yesterday I noticed the same indications (red light flashing) and the control panel is once again locked up. I had a problem about 3 months ago with the heater relay board fried. I replaced that and everything has worked fine since. I haven't unhooked anything lately that might introduce an airlock in the system. Any ideas? My first thought was control panel, but the light turns on when you hit a button, just nothing else works on it. On visual inspection in the tub (and without removing the side panel and physically checking), the circulation pump seems to be running. Thanks for your ideas and help!
Flashing power light means that the heater got too hot at some point. Usually this is from a lack of flow from the circ pump. Dirty filters, having the summer timer function on during cold weather, or a circ pump that's ready to give out are the 3 most common reasons. It could also be a bad hi-limit thermistor but since it is happenening intermittently it is unklikely.
Make sure the summer timer function is off and clean the filters really good or replace them if it's time.
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Some of the newer retrofit parts need slight modifications but not much. Sometimes you can take the screws out of the old circ pump and then you have a little more play in the lines to make it work.
If you need to, just buy some 3/4" vinyl tubing and replace the old lines with longer ones. A couple feet of that tubing only costs a few bucks.
The hi-limit and control have different ends to both of them and will only go into the correct slots...there is really no way they can be mixed up.
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Thanks Dan, moving the circulation pump may work. As for replacing the lines, there doesn't seem to be a nipple on the T fitting over the pump for attaching a new line, it is as if the lines in that fitting are fastened some other way, they just come smoothly out of the fitting.
.....Ott
I'm not really sure what you mean by the tee fitting without a picture....but they are glued in...so you would need to recreate that whole piece.
At any rate...I've replaced about 1000 HotSpring heaters or more and going from the tri-bend heater to the newer 73790 I don't think I've ever had to replumb those. I do know those Classics around 99-01 are very difficult to get to the clamps and what-not on the heaters. Everything is jambed up tightly towards the left of the compartment. It helps to heat up the lines with a heat gun to get them a little more pliable and make things easier..
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We had a Hot Springs Classic spa for 21 years but leaks developed so bad that it was not cost effective to keep it so we replaced it with a used 1999 Classic F because my wife uses it daily for water exercises to help her arthritis and new hot tubs no longer have the open construction of the Classic.
I have the 2000 board and I checked and the red heater light was on. The small pump was pumping vigorously, and the jets worked normally.
The heater stopped heating after six month. It is the three-fold trumpet kind. I ordered the replacement heater 73790 with a length of 20 inches.
I suspect the cause being that the water level was low, below the decorative stripe and the middle filter was quite dirty.
1; The new heater is longer than the old one and if I can shoehorn it in, since it hits the wall on the left in the compartment, the hoses will not reach by about two inches. The hose to the pump has no clamp on the plastic T-pipe above the pump so I can’t replace the hose, can I somehow extend that hose, the same with the second hose. Another solution I can see is to angle the heater up at a 45 deg. angle to get the business end closer to the hoses but that would not allow me to fasten it down, it would be free floating. And in that position would it fill with water on start-up?
2; I have new sensors which plug in on the right side of the board, are they interchangeable or do the thermostat and the high limit control go into dedicated plugs.
Tomorrow or Wednesday I will do the work and will be back if I run into trouble.
Regards.. …..Ott
Some of the newer retrofit parts need slight modifications but not much. Sometimes you can take the screws out of the old circ pump and then you have a little more play in the lines to make it work.
If you need to, just buy some 3/4" vinyl tubing and replace the old lines with longer ones. A couple feet of that tubing only costs a few bucks.
The hi-limit and control have different ends to both of them and will only go into the correct slots...there is really no way they can be mixed up.
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yes very frustrating. Just get rid of the beta in your URL, no waterfall adds and no being kicked out.
bad
http://www.poolspaforum.com/beta/forum/index.php
good
http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php
DK117
Wow...yeah thanks. Without the link you posted I was only able to get on this site on an old Mac laptop and I had to reset Safari everytime I posted.
I had the same problem, for the last two months. I was only able to post once, it was very very frustrating. How do I make it so I log in from your 2nd link every time? Thanks a million btw.
Save the link in "favorite sites" and use it every time.
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I wouldn't remove any more of the foam unless there is another leak.
2001 was a bad year for pvc glue due to changes in the environmental laws.
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It's a 2001 (IQ2020)
If that "heater on" light is red and there is no voltage at the heater terminals then that heater board is most likely shot. If you take it out there is probably a burn mark on the back.
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yes very frustrating. Just get rid of the beta in your URL, no waterfall adds and no being kicked out.
bad
http://www.poolspaforum.com/beta/forum/index.php
good
http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php
DK117
Wow...yeah thanks. Without the link you posted I was only able to get on this site on an old Mac laptop and I had to reset Safari everytime I posted.
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Have a HotSpring Landmark spa purchased new in 2000 or 2001.
Heater not working. Purchased and installed a new Watkins 73790 No Fault 6kW (240v)along with both sensors.
All air removed from system and ran without filters for 15 minutes before throwing heater breaker.
After switching breaker on, waited overnight for temp increase. NO increase in temp!!
Small circulating pump works fine.
Removed heater wires from terminals and tested for power. No power coming off terminals on circuit board to heater.
LED marked LIM is lit GREEN
LED marked HEATER is lit RED.
Anyone have an idea of what I try next??
Thanks
Whether it is a 2000 or 2001 makes a big difference. Does the cover on the control box say IQ2000 or IQ2020?
If it's a 2001 (IQ2020) then it is most likely a bad heater relay board, which is the board on the left side that all of the main power wires come into.
If it is a 2000 (IQ2000), then instead of a whole board they had individual 18 volt relays that are changeable. Although they can go bad it is not nearly as common.
Pics - 99 Sovereign I Picked Up For $150
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
This Sovereign looks like it will clean right up. I have re-furbed about 80-100 tubs and I always forget to take pics of the before and after. I need to start doing that.
I usually do the same thing....rip out all of the components, then hose out the mouse-infested motor compartment. The last bit of dirt usually comes off pretty easily with some Fantastic Oxy Clean and a magic eraser sponge.
It's amazing what some cleaning and a few coats of stain will do.