BradS1
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Posts posted by BradS1
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I've been reading a gen chem textbook and my interest in chemical reactions is peaking. To the guru's out there(shout out to Chem Geek
), what processes are taking place in the tub when Cl(dichlor) is added?Is acid being formed by the Cl ions and what type of acid if so? I'm guessing the Cl are forming ionic bonds with bacteria, and salt, and maybe lose H ions to form HCL which in turn lowers ALK?
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I also own a vanguard and just started using muriatic, can you tell me where it says to not use it? What are the risks with an acrylic shell?
Aeration will raise the pH. The only time you do that after adding acid is when you want to lower the TA level since the acid lowers both pH and TA while aeration raises only pH with no change in TA. So if you want to just lower the pH and not permanently lower the TA, you add the acid without aeration (but with the circulation pump running. If you can't force your circulation pump to run, then yes, you can briefly run the jets but shouldn't need to do that for more than a few minutes.The pH will rise some when soaking because the cover is off, but it will rise much faster if you use aeration jets. If you find that the pH continues to rise too quickly, then you can lower the TA more (but not below 50 ppm) and can add 50 ppm borates (from boric acid) as an additional pH buffer. Normally that's not needed for the bromine system since the bromine tabs are net acidic.
Chem, my TA has been solidly at 40 with the PH mostly staying put right in the 7.2-7.4 range and I don't have borates in the water. Because the PH seems to be holding, I was wondering what your thoughts on this are and if there's any risk besides the obvious PH jumping possibility. I've only been using Dichlor and the CYA is ~25.
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Ok, I've been given a hot tub cal spa 1997, from my inlaws and I have read many postings about starting up but I am looking for the dummies version. What is TA? Is there a step one, type version? I will be filling with water softened well water ( my pool had no issues but some iron I filtered out - never had to adjust ph (perfect) and only added chlorine ever) but heated water and spa care and set up is new world. Walmart sells products- bromine or chlorine? I'm thinking bromine is less work? I am starting from scratch. Link to idiot level instructions??
You have a lot of reading to do. Since the tub was used by someone else, I would follow Nitro's decontamination guide that's stickied in this forum.
TA stands for total alkalinity and has a direct relationship with PH. You need to get this relationship balanced before proceeding with sanitation/other chemicals. Get a good water testing kit first of all. TA should be in the 80-120 range and PH should ideally be 7.4-7.6. TA can be lower if that's what is needed to get the PH in range, but PH will be more volatile when TA < 80, so small changes once down in that ALK range could have large effects. Higher PH can cause scaling while lower can cause corrosion.
I use Chlorine and over 50% of hot tub owners do the same.
I'm relatively new at taking care of a tub, but I've read so much material in the past 2 weeks that I feel like a new man. If you are going to manage a tub, you have no choice but to read and learn how to operate it, otherwise bad things can happen. I recommend reading and trying to understand everything that user "ChemGeek" writes.
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Just wanted to update incase anybody comes across this post in the future. I believe this is nothing but a scale problem after further research. This site describes the issue exactly - http://www.poolsandcues.com/Scale_in_Hot_Tubs.pdf. The circulator pump runs 24/7 and deposits the scale on the tub bottom every day next to the drain.
This issue developed due to the high PH over an extended period of time. I've been netting it out and the water each morning and the water looks better everyday. Also, I created my own little net to put over the drain which makes the cleanup a lot easier.
Water now:
FC - 7
CC - .4 (this is strange, maybe the high FC is bleaching out the results)
ALK - 70
CH - ~200
CYA - 33
PH - 7.6
Going to run either leisure time jet clean or spa flush through the system this weekend, install new filters, and the tub should then be in tip-top shape.
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My thoughts on the stain &amp;amp; scale were just to soften the water overall. I'm not sure what the CH level is, but I will know tomorrow. I was thinking bleach would destroy any mold which I why I ruled it out, but you think differently huh?
The tub has not been moved but I have drained and wiped it down. This was before I knew about system flush/spa purge...etc. The crud seems to be in the piping and maybe the vinegar I injected into the system has helped loosen it which is why it keeps spewing out of the drain. I've been netting it out and rinsing the filters for the past 3 days and I soaked them in a super strong chlorine solution yesterday for about 4 hours. I do know that my chlorine levels dropped to near zero from yesterday to today which is kind of weird but I've only been monitoring it for a few days with less than perfect test strips.
One thing I may have neglected to mention is that one of the jet pipes actually burst and the tub sat without water for ~2 days. I don't know if this is long enough for calcium to stick to the pipes? I really just wish there was a foolproof way to identify what these little chips are.
Thank you very much for the advice and the detailed cleaning instructions.
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The next 2 are when this crud has dried out. As you can see, it's very flaky.
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I'm thankful to have stumbled across this site. I'm a spa noob and I've already learned a bunch by reading the various threads. Considering doing a spa flush and then Nitro's decontamination but I'd like to totally understand my problem first. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
My friend has had a tub for a few years now - hot springs 400gal with ozonator(FreshWater III). I guess we can classify this tub as semi-neglected with water that has been on the high PH side (maybe 8.0+) for what I'm assuming a couple years now. The problem right now is there's white particles floating around and in particular, coming out of the drain pipe where the ozonator bubbles flow from. These vary in size and have a pasta color and turn into mush when rubbed between your fingers. I filled a container with bleach and water and they flakes do not disintegrate so I'm thinking it isn't mold.
Stats from the pool store sample:
TC - 3.9
FC - 3.4
PH - 8.5
Total ALK - 169
Total Hardness - 215
Since then, I've been adding PH/ALK down and we are in the 7.8-8 range. ALK is ~100 now. I'm adding more PH down every couple of days. I also bought some stain and scale preventer to bring down the hardness. The ozonator tubing was clogged with buildup and I ran vinegar through it to loosen. I have a Taylor 2006 kit arriving tomorrow and plan to really keep things under control for now on. The filters are original and we thought the flakes may be pieces of them that have broken down. Does that sound plausible? They look fine upon inspection.
So I guess I'm looking for advice on the best plan of action. What is this stuff first of all? Should I flush the system? I'm going to order new filters today.
Now that I'm thinking about this some more...some of the flakes are the same color as the ozonator tubing, is it possbile that the buildup inside that tubing actually broke it down and now the tubing is "leaking" into the tub?
Pics below. Thanks in advance.
What Chemical Reactions Take Place When Adding Cl?
in Hot Tub Water Chemistry
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I knew you would have the answers! Great link, a lot of info there that will take me some time to absorb. Thanks!