sharkman009
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Posts posted by sharkman009
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I highly doubt that Master Spas would promote any program without having their attorneys look at it first. Fact is, some customers did get their money back, and the courts in Missouri ruled that Consumer's Promotions was to pay million$ back to the people they duped. Looks like most of you have made up your own minds though. Good thing our legal system doesn't work on rumor and enuendo.
I guess since you know so much about it you must have been at their dealers meeting in Mexico several years back where they were pushing this on dealers and telling them that exact thing. I'll tell you one thing if I happened to be one of the dealers that had listened to them I would be as ticked off at them as they guy that was making all remarks about them on this post. The other funny thing is they didnt learn their lesson when the news came out about this happening. Master decided to go somewhere where they thought know one knew about the scam and did a show down in Texas and tried to make the same offer to customers. This was AFTER the attorney general had seized the bank accounts of Consumer promotions and Master spa knew it. Now thats ethical.
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If Consumer's Promotions, Inc. duped doctors, car dealers, furniture dealers, boat dealers, and multiple spa manufacturers (according to Pool and Spa News), what makes you think that the blame lies with Master Spas?
I challenge you to find ANY other spa manufacurer that was connected to that program. Pool and Spa news tiptoed around that one very nicely in (my opinion) trying not to step on any toes.
When you have a manufacturer pushing a program like that to their dealers and telling them we have had our attorneys check this program out and it is totally legit there is plenty of reason to blame them.
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Please bear with me. I don't know the proper terms for the equipment which is giving me grief and I hope my description will make sense.
We bought a Polaris 65 pool cleaner which works off the um . . . water recirculation outlet (?). Normally, this outlet has a directional 'eye' which can be pointed downward or sideways to direct the flow of water. To utilize the Polaris quick-connect hose end the eye has to be removed and replaced with a universal adaptor. This adaptor has threads on the outside and the eye also has threads on the outside. Never the twain shall come together, I guess.
What I'm wondering is, is there a gadget, a threaded ring, yet another adaptor perhaps, which will let me attach the eye to the outlet when I'm not using the Polaris? Because the problem is, as things are presently, the outlet is just below the water level and it bubbles the water across the surface rather than shooting it below or to the side toward the skimmer basket.
I'm hoping you can visualize the situation because words fail me
Thanks for any ideas!
What your looking for is a return eyball assembly and any pool store should carry them but they do make two different sizes so if you have any losse parts you can take in with you that will help them match up what ypu need.
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They are made by Hawkeye manufacturing - they make barefoot, hawkeye, and the "Atlantis" spa on Costco's website (not the one I'm looking at.)
I've heard of Hawkeye and had even worked on a few years ago but I thought they had gone out of business. They may have been bought out by someone else or companies sometimes by dead spa companies and resurect them and change the name but use the old name to claim they have been in business longer than they actually have.
When you are looking at a small manufacturers product it is harder to find a track record because there are not that many of them out there.
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Gee, I thought Sunstar made HS covers.
You would be wrong they make their own and have for quite a few years.
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It seems that everyone has it all figured out. Might as well put everyone associated w/ Master Spas #2 on the list right under UBL ( or OBL, never could understand where the U came from.) Give everyone a brake...maybe Master just sells more than you do and the only way you can compete is to BASH everyone even associated with them. Great idea, I am sure you won't alienate any customers that way. People don't want to hear about the spa or anything, they just want to hear your RANTS about bull@%*&.
Talk about deceiving advertising tactics, how about the HotSpring "Energy Guarantee." I'm sure Masco is doiling out power meters by the thousands to make sure all their customers aren't paying more than an "average" of $20-$30 a month, that way everyone can keep a meter for the 12 months in a year. By the way, isn't energy more expensive this year...How does HotSprings do it!!
Why don't you take some initiative and get with a Master Dealer, that way you could do a "spa show." Or maybe you don't want to put up the CA$H to compete head-to-head.
The sooner everyone in this industry realizes that the real competition is RVs, motorcycles, plasma TVs, boats, vacations, snowmobiles, etc. the sooner our industry can grow. It doesn't do anyone any good to denagrade your profession by BASHING your peers. If I was a customer reading this forum, I'd be scared as hell to do business with ANYONE in the industry after reading this.
You dont think that any of the promotions that Master Spas has offered could be taken as misleading? Are you going to compare the Energy gaurantee to the rebate program that Master was pushing? Im sure that there are dealers for Master spas that honestly do try to do a legitimate business but the manufacturer is responsible for a lot of the bad rep they have.
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Actually the 360 is the only 3 wheeled Polaris pressure side unit that does NOT require a booster pump but runs off the returns. It is similar the the 380 which does require a booster pump.The ATV is a suction side cleaner. There are merits to both types of cleaners but if they are planning a new pool it is very easy to put in a dedecated pressure side line since the pressure side, booster pump driven cleaners have many advantages over both non booster pressure models and suction side models.
And finally, it is NOT necessary to have the booster pump built in when you build the pool. They can be retrofitted into many existing installations!
Let me rephrase that then. You can install a polaris system with a booster pump after your pool is built if you dont mind cutting up your deck and drilling holes in the pool wall to install the pressure connections and trenching through your yard to run the lines. And it is just as easy to install a dedicated vacuum linewhile the pool is being built.
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I take it you have never seen a self contained spa in S FL during the summer with the cover left off for a week or two at a time
IF the spa is using chlorine as the primary sanitizer it will all be burned off in a very short time by the UV in the sun. Even if dichlor is the primary source of chlorine, the level of CYA in the water will not be high enough to keep a FC residual for any length of time right after a new fill. Adding CYA to the proper level will help maintain the FC level.If a customer leaves the cover off their self contained spa in the sun they are asking for bigger problems. That is one thing no manufacturer will warranty is an acrylic shell that cracks or blisters from being exposed to direct sunlight for extended periods of time. Let me rephrase what I said. If a customer takes care of their self contained spa properly then CYA is not going to be neccesary. Now if your talking about an inground thats a different story.
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My 10'x10' spa was a portable 480 gal spa and was on chlorine first two years (1999-2000) and then bromine until I replaced it with my current IG fiberglass pool and 300 gal acrylic spa last year. I get year round use since I live in Florida. My comment about the 10x10 hard cover was that since it was a two person job to take tit off or put it on it tended to stay off the spa for weeks at a time! I just keep a solar blanket on my current spa and it is very easy to put on and remove. Since I stated in the post that you quoted that my previous spa WAS a portable you might want to go back and re read it a bit more carefully. Then you might understand what I was saying. As far as a covered spa not getting algae I have seen mustard algae grow in a spa that was covered for almost a month.. TDS is not much of an issue if the spa is drained and refilled regularly but CYA levels ARE if chlorine is the primary sanitizer. It is important to get the CYA levels up to about 30 ppm on each fresh refill. My feeling on the subject is to balalnce the water, put in the right amount of CYA, and then use non stabilized chlorine for sanitation and shock. This way you KNOW what your numbers are until it's time to refill again and your regular maintenacne boils down to montering the chlorine and pH and checking water balalnce and CYA monthly---assuming a 3-4 month refill period.
Any type of algae has to have light in order for it to grow. Pink water mold and mildew will grow in a dark environment but in 20 years I have never seen any type of algae in a self contained spa.
In our customers spas I have never had CYA be a problem before the TDS gets to a point that the spa needs to be drained.
In a self contained spa there is no need to add CYA.
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Done it........ a few times. The solar panel will need to be a boxed glazed panel, and it's HIGHLY unlikely one 4x8 panel will do the job. I've got 3, 4x7 panels on my 350 gallon hot tub.
How ell does that do in the winter?
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Thank you.
One of the many great benefits about 100% No-Bypass Filtration that HotSpring utilizes is the prevention of hair, dead skin, dirt, etc from being introduced into the pump, heater, plumbing, and back into the main body of water in the spa. In our (East Texas Spa) 21 years of selling and servicing HotSpring Spas, we have had the good fortune to only replace 8 (eight) jet pumps during this period. One of our competitors actually calculated the failure rate for me one day and it came to about .002% which he admitted was FAR below his brand's failure rate.
If anyone cares to refute this statement, I am all ears:
It is better to filter hair, dead skin, dirt, debris BEFORE it ever enters the spas internals than NOT to filter hair, dead skin, dirt, debris before it ever enters the spas internals. HotSpring is the ONLY major spa brand that does this.
That's it!
Terminator
I just want to add that we do service and repair on all brands and it is not uncommon to pull a pump apart on a system that bypasses the filter and find the impellar with debris in the impellar and that can effect the life of the pump as well as reducing yor flow rates.
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Not that it botheres me but from another website, someone said that Hotsprings tubs are the ONLY company to do 100 percent filtration without bypass. Funny thing is that LA spa says that they do 100 percent filtration. I never looked a the hot spring filtration, it never mattered to me because I didnt like the rest of the tub. But, I think the hot spring and LA use the same type if filtration. Fabric filter bags that can be placed in the dishwasher. Am I correct? I dont know since I never looked at the hot springs filter. How can hot springs say they are the only ones with the 100 percent no bypass? I am trying to post a pic for the first time so dont get mad if it doesnt come out. Personally the filtration wasnt a big decision maker for me. I was really focussed on being comfortable in the tub, not the filters.
How do you post a picture on here? I see the insert image button button but it only wants to have me pput in a url. The picture is on my local drive. Well, I will see if the link to the website will work.
Hotsprings is the only spa with 100 percent no bypass. There is a difference between saying your spa has 100% filtration and saying Hotsprings has 100% no bypass. What that means is when ANY pump on a Hotspring spa is on the water that is being pulled by that pump has to pass through a filter just like in Terminators diagram that he posted. On LA and a lot of other brands when the jet pumps are turned on there are bypass valves connected to the suction ports that you see around the footwell of your spa and a lot of that water is going through and right back to the spa. Totally bypassing the filter.
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Any comments on the barefoot spa?
That is a manufacturer that I had never heard of until I saw one on the Costco web site. I would be a little leary about buying from a small manufacturer with no track record.
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We've been extremely busy up until the last week. It's always slow around here leading up to Tax Day but then it takes off like a greased goose until August. Sales are up over this point last year and last year they were up 21% over the year before, so life is good! How about ya'll?
Terminator
We were slow January through mid March then it hit the fan. We cant hardly keep up. Now its warming up and everyone wants their pools running on top of spa sales going crazy!
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This is what they're trying to say as a picture is worth a thousand sales pitches:
You don't HAVE to set timers or filtration cycles or program a HotSpring Spa. When you get out, hit the CLEAN button, throw a little sanitizer in there, close the spa, and go enjoy the rest of your day worry free!
That's about as simple as I can make it for some of you folks.
Terminator
Are things slow in Texas? -
Guys come on now. It filters the same way with one person or 6 people using the spa please do not try and say it does not matter. We all know the water is dirtiest after a spa is used and if it used by more people than normal it is a real benefit to be able adjust your filtering to accommodate the extra use. By the way you sharkman brought up Hot Springs not me I only replied to the post about them. As for the line's how long does it take to purge them as the water that goes through them basically does so at a dribble. Hey Hot Springs builds a good product and stands behind it very well. But there are genuine choices that are just as good from other makers and depending on what you feel is best may be a better way to accomplish the same thing. But its what you feel is best for you.
I realize I brought up Hotspring but you made the statement "how many Hotspring customers are told "oh by the way if you dont use your spa for a few days make sure you hit the clean button to purge the lines.
The point I was trying to make to you is that you DONT have to purge the lines on a Hotspring spa.
Another point that spa tech made that you totally missed was the no bypass filtering. When the tub is being used there is NO water passing through the sytem that is not being filtered so the argument can be made that the water in a Hotspring spa will be cleaner even after heavy usage than competitors filtering systems.
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Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the veal and tip your waiter.
Now that you mention it the veal does sound good.
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Another point could be made that since Hot Springs jet pumps draw all their water through the filters there should be less need to run the pumps as part of a clean cycle after heavy bather load compared to a standard circ pump spa where the jet pump water has a bypass.
Good point.
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Thats not the point and also how many Hot Springs customers are told at time of sale "oh by the way if you are not going use the spa for a few days than be sure and hit the clean up cycle to purge the plumbing lines". This is not a knock on Hot Springs it is just that for most benefits (quiet operation) they come at a cost. Also what happens when you have extra use in a Hot Springs spa can you program it to add for the extra people. Say you have a spa the runs 2 hour filter cycles twice a day and you have guests over for a weekend and your spa is going to be getting some extra heavy use most spas that filter in 2 hours cycles can be bumped to 4 hours to off set the extra use. All I am saying is that there are trade offs to each.
First if you want to point out a fault on a system learn about the system you are talking about. If you look back at my post I said most spas with 24 hour circ systems dont circulate water from the jet lines. That is not the case with a Hotspring. The circ pump is drawing water from the filter compartment and the jet lines.
So the jet lines on a Hotspring dont have to be purged.
As far as excessive swimmer loads the turnover rate with the small circ pump is more than adequate to deal with heavy loads. It is actually overkill for regular use.
If it wasnt able to maintain the spa you know as well as I do that with as long as they have built spas this would be something compettitors would be all over.
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You are right the small circ pumps can not pull the water though the main plumbing. As for the surface tension drop a piece of thread in a spa that only uses the small circ pump and come back in the next hour or the next day it won't matter because the thread will still be floating on the top. The surface of the water should be broken.
With most spas the cover is on the spa 95% of the time and as I said the other times the spa is being used with the pumps running which skims the water when the tub would be open and exposed to debris entering the spa.
The bottom line is if you ask customers that own a Hotspring spa how often do you open your spa and find debris floating in your spa you would be hardpressed to find one that has problems keeping their water clean or finding debris floating in their spa.
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Yes, after about one hundred phones call from me and Home Depot but it took almost five months to get it fixed and my husband had to install the last three items, they were easy to put on but if they had responed on Nov 1, 2005 the tub could have been fixed in a week, but no they denied we had a warranty and wanted us to fix and pay for parts.
Thats the problem that we were running into with that company when we were doing repair work for them. They would drag their feet getting customers info to us when they had a spa breakdown and when the customer would call them weeks later to see why nobody had contacted them they would try to blame the delay on us. Then when we had the parts ordered they would lose orders and we would be waitng for a month for parts.
These are all problems are common when dealing with mass merchants.
Im glad you at least got your spa running.
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Yes they are quiet, and that is really their biggest benefit. However at the expense of being quiet you give up water turnover and the breaking of the waters surface during filtering. Many of todays makers have acknowledged this by having the bigger pumps turn on during the day or going to a much larger circ pump than was previously used. A small 24 circ pump does do a some things well but it is lacking in other areas.
The reason most manufacturers have their jet pumps turn on every day is because the water in the jet lines do not get circulated and can get stagnat. They dont have them turn on because the circ pumps dont turn the water over fast enough.
A small circulation pump running 24 hrs is more than adequate for most spas when calculating turnover rates.
As far as breaking surface tension of the water the only time that is an issue in my opinion is while the spa is being used. As people sit in the warm water body oils come to the surface and need to be skimmed off.
When people are sitting in the spa they usually have the jets on and that is adequate to skim the water and keep it clean.
The rest of the time the cover is on the spa and debris in the water is not an issue.
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Well, it turns out it was something very simple. I had to prime the pump. I didn't know how to do that but I got a hold of the service guy and found out what I needed to do. All is working fine now.
If I understood you correctly from your first post your pumps are in a hole next to the spa. If the pumps are below the water level of the spa they should have no problem maintaining a prime. Im glad you got it going but you shouldnt have to go out and prime it after a power outage.
You may have another issue.
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I am about to purchase a new hot tub, but so far, I have gotten very mixed answers, regarding insulation. Arctic Spas for one, say that there system of insulation is the best-which is the floor and tub are sprayed but that there is a cavity open around the plumbing and motors. They claim that it makes it alot easier to work on and the heat off the motor heats the water as well, which cuts down on power. They also claim with a power failure at -20F, that there pipes and motors won't freeze for 5 days.
When you go to another dealer they claim the only way to go is full insulation.
What dio you guys think?
Mike
Oh Boy you dont what you've started by asking this question.
I would not own a spa that is not foam filled. Now you will hear people tell you they are harder to repair but that is about the only benefit in my opinion. A spa that is not foam filled is going to be more prone to leaks due to the plumbing not having support and when jets are turned on the lines will move over time the flexable pvc joints can weaken and begin to leak.
The foam insulation will help to support the lines as well as the shell. The foam will help to muffle the sound as the spa runs.
As far as the comparison when there is a power failure, a foam filled spa will hold heat just as well.
If you do choose a spa with the thermal lock I would stick with Arctic or Coleman. My opinion.
Need Large Entertainment Spa: Recommendations?
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
I didnt bash a dealer in Texas so dont try putting words in my mouth. You are arguing about something that you dont have facts on! Your wrong when you say they dont do sells there are people high up in Master spas that do take spas around the country and do spa sales. It wasnt a dealer that did that sale it was Master spas. You must have totally missed the part where I said "Im sure there are some Master spa dealers out ther that are trying to do a legitimate business. How is that convicting the rest for a few bad apples?
I also noticed that you kind of skipped around the question of other manufacturers that were involved with that rebate scam.