["vision" Cartridge For D1 Yea? Nea?]

I am also a newbie. I have a sundance which has a built in brominator in the gate. I started out whith granular chlorine (spa56) but I was having to add it almost daily too much work. So I started over with bromine tabs in my brominator. But they desolved too fast about 5 days. I now am using a floater which you can adjust the strength of bromine and it holds many tabs. It lasts the whole week. I then refill floater and shock the spa, weekly. I am also confused about the mineral purifiers. Nature 2 says not to use with bromine so does sun purity but spa frog is a floater that is bromine and a mineral cartridge. What is the difference and are they really good to use. They say you can keep your sanitizer at a lower level, if you remember to do that. Why cant you use 1 inch chlorine tabs in a floater? Thay say not to.

The mineral purifiers will work to a certain degree. Im always a little leary of new products that are presented to be the cure all. When some of these products first came out that is how they were presented to the public and we began seeing more customers coming into our store with psudamonis because they were using the cartridges and no other sanitizer. Now most manufacturers have changed their labeling to tell customers to add chlorine as needed. I have tried the cartridges and found change in the amount of chemical I was using. As you said about maintaining your sanitizer levels at a lower level it gives you less of buffer if you forget to go out and test your spa for a few days. The reason you dont want to use chlorine tabs is that they are made with Trichloro which is a strong form of chlorine that is made to treat swimming pool water where your gallon capacities are much higher. With these tablets it would be very easy to overdose your spa and if any of the pieces of the tablets come into contact with the surface of the spa it can damage it. Some manufacturers even use these tablets to test their shells. They place one on their shell and let it sit to see how long it takes for it to damage the surface.

[? About Bypass Filtration]

I am considering a few different hot tubs. The closest dealer-which sells both D1and Hotsprings (also charges $89 trip charge for warranty service) said that only HS has 100% filtration when the pumps are in use. Is this true? LA spa dealer says that their tubs continue to filter when pumps are in use and I can't remember what the Catalina dealer said. I do want my tub to be filtered when I am in it. Help... i am soooo confused.

Caren

Caren,

To answer your question, yes what they are telling you is true. But they should have explained to you what that means as it sounds like your getting confused from the different stories your getting. As you look at the different spas out ther one thing you will notice is most spas have one or two filters in them. On those systems when you turn the jet pumps on they can not get all of the water that they need through the filters so a bypass line is plumbed into the footwell area. This bypass line usually has a valve plumbed into it that requires a high flow rate to open so when the pump that is used as the circulation pump is running on low speed this valve will be closed and all of the water going through that pump is being filtered. When you turn the jets on the valves open and some of the water is now passing straight through the system and not being filtered. When you look at these spas you'll see suction screens in the footwell area. The more jet pumps there are the more screens you will see. The bypass systems do continue to filter the water while your using the jets it just doesnt filter all of it. The one exception to this will be if you get a spa that has a two jet pump system one of the pumps will usually be plumbed into the system without going through the filters and if you were using only that pump that water would not be filtered.

When you look at the Hotsprings you will see that it has more filters in it and no suction ports in the footwell. The circulation pump will have its own filter and each jet pump will have two filters so that enough water can flow through to supply each pump. In this situation all of the water is being filtered as it passes through the system. As far as I know up to this date Hotsprings is the only brand with no bypass. Catalina is a bypass system. I hope I didnt add to your confussion.

[Tiger River Spas V. Hs]

God help the spa shoppers.

Jim,

You take it upon yourself to assume to much. First of all you have absolutely no idea what I sell! Second of all my history is in service and I do know what it costs to build each of the tubs that you were knocking. If you want to make an argument for your position on something the least you could do is get your figures right. But then again if you did that you would find out your wrong.

[Placing A Hot Tub Indoor]

I think even if you are wealthy, spending money wisely is important. To put yourself in a situation knowing that it could potentially cost significantly more to deal with certain circumstances... is simply wasteful. Perhaps it may the the location where I live but everyone I meet cares about what they spend. Having money is one thing... staying wealthy is another. Hence a great topic posted here... how you can avoid any pitfalls BEFORE you put a spa in a certain situation (budget or not).

You make a good point and one that is overlooked in a lot of cases. Spas are installed in situations that they should never have been placed simply because "thats what the customer wanted". We have walked away from sales where the customer insisted on installing a spa in a place that would not allow us to service it. We have also had to be the bearer of bad news to customers who have had spas installed and when it breaks down you cant get into it to repair it. And things may be different in other parts of the country but in our area wealthy consumers scream just as loud about spending to much for a repair as those of us on a budget. In some cases louder.

[Tiger River Spas V. Hs]

I think Jim exagerates the differences in prices a little. Jim it would be great if you could not knock down other Spa companies. All every consumer wants is a little advice and knowledge on what is true. Also every Spa company out there has to make a profit. From what I've seen none of them give away a spa. so if you don't like their prices You could buy a cheap spa to last you a few years or build your own Spa.

Jim is way off on his figures and a perfect example of what is wrong with our industry. There will always be customers out there that are focused only on price but most customers realize a dealer needs to make a profit to survive and to support the products that he offers.

[Tadpole Vs Bullfrog Spas]

Bullfrog is a unique concept. Your company builds spas like everybody else. There is no misleading consumers when it come to the new concept. At some point you will be forced to see the light.

TBK

God Bless

Happy Hunting.

I would have to say that when you lead a customer to believe that there are no holes drilled through the shell when in fact there are holes drilled through the shell that is misleading. If you feel that the product you sell is superior to everything else on the market then why dont you sell on the strengths of your product and teach the customer how they will benefit from those strengths instead of telling people that a Caldera is junk compared to yours? Thats the problem with the spa industry, dealers bad mouthing each other and giving bad info to customers to sell their products. The last consumer study that I read ranked spa dealers one step lower than used car salesman. My opinion.

[Hot Springs Vs Dimension One Vs Master Spas]

I have wet tested 3 spas so far and will be wet testing a 4th on Tues. The 3 tested so far were HS Envoy, D1 Chairman 2 and Coleman 481. The 4th will be Master spas LSX. The Coleman was nice but was not comparable to the others, it would have been nice if the dealer had the more comparable model- 705 or 706. The Envoy was a great tub and for me it was great but the lounge seat was too big for my wife and she could not get the benefits of it( a spa pillow would not work since the bend for the legs was too long and her calves were hitting where the back of her knees should have been). The moto massage was much nicer then I expected. The D1 Chairman 2 has the best overall package and fit for both of us. It has a nice lounge and a really nice max therapy seat. The last tub we have to compare is the Master Spas LSX which looks to be comparable to the chairman in size, seating and therapy...I guess only the wet test will tell.

I have not researched the Master Spas much yet. I see that it and the Chairman 2 cover the spectrum of a lot of the debates on this forum, full foam vs polar wrap, UV vs CD ozonation, metal frame vs wood....

The price ranges for all these units are all over the place, $9900 for the highest and $6500 for the lowest. So you can see the dilema of, is the best worth $3400 more. It is amzing how you cannot find pricing for any spas anywhere..makes you a little uncomfortable trying to purchase one. Are you getting a good deal? Some of the pricing starts out at $8500 to $9500 and they will reduce the price down to $7700 to $6500, makes you wonder how much of a mark up is on them. I'm not trying to get something for free but also don't want to get taken to the cleaners. At least when you purchase a car you can find MSRP of it.

Any input to help in the decision, barring sales pitches and my product is best comments, would be helpful. These all appear to be top of the line spas and have established dealers and service in my area.

Thanks

As the old saying goes you get what you pay for. There are areas things that can be done to build a spa cheaper. I know to most customers they all look the same but that is not the case. Just because you got a cheaper price doesnt mean that you got a good deal. You are doing the right thing by doing your homework on the different lines of spas. The lines of spas that you mentioned are good brands but the Master spa is not quite as high a quality (IMHO) and you will probably see that reflected in the price. Another thing you will want to check is the dealers history. Do they do their own service? How long have they been in business? Do they stock parts for what they sell? You can purchase a good quality spa and have a dealer that does a bad job on the service end and you can end up with a cheaper spa that the dealer is excellent at customer service. If possible check with others in your area that own spas from the dealers that you are looking at to find out their experiences with those dealers. Most spa manufacturers have MSRP that you should be able to get from the dealer but prices are going to vary from different areas. It costs some dealers in larger markets more to do business. For example a dealer in San Diego may pay $8000.00 a month for rent and the same space in our area would be less than half of that. You want a good deal but you also want the dealer you are buying from to be in business 6 years from now.

[Sundance Capri - A Good Choice?]

We are considering a Sundance Capri. Our alternatives are Hot Spring (Jetsetter) and D1 (Triad2). Jacuuzi Premium (Kios) could be afourth alternative, but we have heard that do not come up in same quality as the others. No other brands available where we are. We have wet tested the first two and we preferred the Capri to the Jetsetter.

Anyone can provide their eperience on a Capri, or any of the others.

What is the price in the US of a Capri? In our country (Europe) the price is more than 11 000 USD, probably chocking high to most of you.

Thank you for any comments that help us make our final choice.

Your right your prices overseas are a lot higher than in the US. The three brands that you are looking at are good brands. Comfort is going to be an important factor but another big factor is warranty and service. You can buy a excellent spa but if it breaks down and you cant get it serviced in a reasonable amount of time the quality of the spa probably not going to matter to much to you. So check out the dealers and make sure they service what they sell and that they stock a good supply of parts, regardless of the brand.

[Tadpole Vs Bullfrog Spas]

Bullfrog spas has 90% less plumbing than any other brand in the industry. It has jet packs in the shell instead of drilling all those holes in the shell. There is nothing else out there like this. If it is your opinion state that. Because we all have different opinions on what Quality means. (Ferrari is to Gocart as Bullfrog is to Caldera). My opinion.

TBK

God Bless

Happy Hunting.

Thats a stretch. First of all Bullfrog does build a good spa [but] they do not have 90% less plumbing than any other spa on the market. Bullfrog uses a manifold from the top of the seat down into the shell at each seat and most other manufacturers use a manifold at each seat on the outside of the shell. There are holes drilled in a Bullfrog spa, any foot jets in the spa, all suction fittings, the filter compartment. It is a different design but some of the information that is presented about them is misleading consumers. My opinion.

[Ah, The Spa Business]

That's got to be the most sleezy, scum bag of a salesmans made up lie I think I've ever heard of in the industry.

How about I help you with some more.....................

You don't want more than one pump as the electormagnet feild of additional pumps could cause cancer.

Our jets are as strong as possible so as to not risk "psupatio skin disease" cause by forcing water into the pores.

LED lighting might cause retna damage.

The noise emitted by a waterfall can reduce some peoples *** drive.

the off-gassing of plastic siding can cause lung damage.

oops........... pizza's here........ gotta go

You forgot to mention that excessive noise from more than one jet pump may cause hearing loss and how about the cancer causing effects of the chemicals that we use.

Just when you think you've heard it all.

[Oxy-brite By Aquachlor.]

I have been recommended this product for use with a cd ozone unit. They recommend about 10gms every two days. And to use no other chemicals. The active ingreditent of this product is Potassium Peroxymonosulphate. Is this peroxide?

My biggest problem is how to use the Ozone unit with the minimum of chemicals and this is what has been recommended. Has anyone else used this?, what were the results?, is the recommended dosage correct for 1500 ltrs of water? A search of the site did not bring up this product. It is made in Australia by Water Co Ltd.

I have only had my spa for a few months and I have been logging on to your forum as a guest. I have had so many of the problems everyone else has had and you have answered all my queries. THANKS

That chemical is a non chlorine shock. If you do as they are recommending you will eventually have some problems. For one thing Potassium Peroxymonosulphate is not a sanitizer, it is a shock to burn off chloramines , persperation, cosmetics, and body oils. With their recommendation the only sanitizer that you will have being introduced is the ozone gas. Ozone is great at killing bacteria but one of its shortcomings is that it is a gas so it is only effective while it is in the water. Since it is a gas it will dissipate as soon as it leaves the return jet in the spa and rises up out of the water. Ozone works great but you will still need some type of sanitizer such as chlorine or bromine. The nice thing with a ozonator you can maintain your sanitizer levels at lower levels so that you dont get the strong chemical odors and the drying effect on your skin when you get out.

The next thing to consider is your sanitizer has nothing to do with your Ph or total alkalinity and both of these things are important to protect your spa equipment. Be careful of instructions that make it sound to easy as we see a lot of customers that end up with rashes and infections due to lack of sanitizer because of such instructions.

[Baqua And Shell Deterioration]

There are two products, one is baquacil and the other baquaspa. Can anyone explain the difference to me as one is cheaper than the other.

Baquacil is a brand made for swimming pools and the peroxide (your sanitizer) and other chemicals are in dosages made for a pool. What ever you do do not add the Baquacil to your spa. Baquaspa is made in dosages for a spa and the chemicals are designed for a spa.