Spanky
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Posts posted by Spanky
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Yes that's correct, but unfortunately you wont be able to take advantage of the offer.
The arrangement between Taylor an Lowrey is so strict that it legally blocks all U.S. vendors from selling to Canadian addresses. You'll find this out when you get to the Checkout, you'll see the message that the item cannot be shipped to Canada.
It apparently has to do with the MSDS format and miles of red tape involved in importing chemicals. Lowrey converted all the Taylor data into Canadian format and filed everything with Ottawa. Now they're the only distributer legally allowed to import the products into Canada and make a handsome profit from the ridiculous mark up.
Apollo has to buy their inventory from Lowrey and obviously have to add some profit margin for themselves, but as I stated earlier, Apollo does their best to make it up to Canadian customers with phenomenal customer service
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Ozonators can help but the're "after the fact" since most set ups do not allow the ozone to function while the spa is in use. They are programmed to start 1/2hr after the last panel input an therefore not much help during a Spa Party. Even if the pumps are not running , the ozone will not start until 30mins after the lighting is turnrd off. If you don't add chlorine during the party the sanitizer will reach 0!!! Unless you start with a dangerously high level. During these situations there is no substitute for hourly dosing. This is similar to "Public" spas, which are required by law to have constant sanitizer injection, usually a peristaltic pump. Under normal use private spas never need this but during Spa Parties the situation is diferent
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Winter is actually the best time to use the spa!!!
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I wouldn't add more than 2oz at a time, then aerate to bring the pH back up then repeat. Muriatic can crash pH very quickly!!
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I just posted this to the Water Chemistry side. This may help you
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Apollo is basically the only "web" source for Taylor in Canada. The pricing is not their fault, it's the result of an exclusive arrangement between Taylor and the Canadian distributer. By the way Apollo's customer service is outstanding and their shipping costs, by Canada Post is fast and reasonable.
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During "Hot tub / Pool " parties, I always add about 2oz of chlorine bleach into the filter box every hour or so. Adding to the filter box, with the pumps running, disperses the chlorine so that your guests are not exposed to high level.
I also make a point of shocking the pool before I turn in for the night and shock the tub as soon as I get up in the morning.
Pool/ Spa parties are great fun but they're a lot of work for the host... Food, bar etc.. AND maintaining a safe sanitizer level in the spa at all times!!!
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There appear to be a multitude of places to purchase a cover. Any suggestions?
As for U.S. vendors, I can't really offer any assistance, but for the benefit of Canadian members I can strongly recommend Hot Tub Covers Canada.
My spa is a Sunrise (made in Grimsby,ON) and HTC's factory is in Mississauga, apparently they are , or were, the OEM vendor for Sunrise. When my cover was damaged it the great GTA ice storm last year, all I did was give them my spa model & year and the new cover fit exactly as the original. The cover quality is excellent and their customer service is outstanding.
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Pump could be toast. That would explain thr low flow and overheat. If the pump tries to start and the breaker trips, it could be a damaged impeller. You need to pull the pump to see what's going on. The motor might still be ok
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It's possible you fried the heater element. A multimeter is the best way to check. Disconnect both lugs, measure the resistance between the lugs . It should read about 8-10 ohms . If it shows 0 or close to it then it's toast
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The main problem in all cases is the base sinking. In my case, the existing patio (35 years+) was extended by 3' (to accommodate the spa) into what was lawn. That's the corner that sank under the load of the spa. You cannot expect a freshly dug section of lawn to have the same compaction strength as a patio compacted for over 35 years. This is why building codes specify that house "Footings" must be placed over "Undisturbed" soil but in most cases that would mean excavating 8+ feet!!!
If you pour a concrete slab over an excavation of equal compaction, then hopefully when it settles, and it will settle, it will remain relatively even but if there is any potential differential in compaction then I personally would avoid concrete.
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Mine's on 24 x 24 patio pavers and I've never had a problem. I do agree with the post about using sand, mine's on crushed limestone.
As others have stated, the problem is settling, and they often do settle. Mine did. In the first year 1 corner settled about 1-1/2" lower than the rest. With the pavers it was a very easy fix. During the routine spring water change We slid the tub of the pad, lifted the pavers, re packed with more limestone, put the pavers back and slid the tub back on. Has never moved since. If it was concrete I'd be screwed. Jacking & repacking the corner of a concrete pad, while not impossible, is very difficult and expensive.
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Another tidbit: If you use Ozone with Dichlor/Bleach, check your system low level programming.
When I used Bromine, my ozonator was set to "Always ON" but after switching to Dichlor/Bleach I changed it to "On every 1/2 hr."
This helps to prevent the FC loss by reducing the time the Ozone is produced when the spa is not in use. I also increases the life expectancy of the CD chip
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The Del Ozone tech. suggested I use chlorine because of the reaction that ozone has with bromine.
Sounds to me like the Del Ozone tech got it backwards!!! The reaction between Ozone & Bromine is a positive (beneficial one) whereas the reaction between Ozone & Chlorine can be detrimental !!!
All manufacturers claim that installing Ozone allows you to use less sanitizer. This is nothing but sales BULL!!!! There is absolutely NO truth to it.
It's sad that there are too many cases of so called "Spa Experts" associated with dealers and manufacturers giving out confusing, and in some cases, outright bogus information to unsuspecting spa customers. Just my opinion.... My apologies to those true professionals out there that are honest and properly versed in the FACTS
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Good luck trying to convince the wife on that one!!!! lol
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There is no simple answer to your question.
Ozone will oxidize everything in it's path including chlorine. If your bather load is high then both systems may benefit from the additional oxidation of waste, but if your bather load is low, then the ozone can actually lower FC.
Bromine, on the other hand, does not suffer from this depletion, and ozone helps return bromamines into bromine. Unfortunately most ozone systems are not highly effective as the O3 does not remain in the water long enough. The gas mostly bubbles to the surface and can shorten the life expectancy of the spa cover.
You have to weigh all the pro's and con's and decide for yourself. In theory Bromine has an advantage over Chlorine, in regards to Ozone
BUT
Chlorine (Dichlor/Bleach) has a huge advantage over Bromine in water clarity and change interval. Bromine usually requires a water change every 3-4 months whereas Chlorine often lasts 6-12 months
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Once again let me remind you of what is in a dirty filter.
FECES, URINE and BODY SWEAT!!!!!!
Feel free to put that in your dishwasher if you want but a bucket with TSP is more practical
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Is the tub new or used? Either way you need to flush with Ahh Some, then decontaminate. Used tubs usually end up with biofilm and even new tubs have many oils and residue left over from the manufacturing process. You'd be amazed at what gunk comes out of a brand new tub!!!
Folow the flush &decontamination steps then see if the sanitizer demand stabilizes.
Another source of film/oil is make-up and body lotions, so after you get the tub properly cleaned, invest in a "Scumbug" They work great
P.S. Saying pH etc.. is "fine" doesn't help us you need to provide accurate test results!!!
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So has anyone used the dishwasher trick to wash their Spa Filters?
Filters contain remnants of feces, urine and body sweat/bacteria!!!! You can certainly put it in YOUR dishwasher but I sure as H*ll won't put one in mine!!!!
All joking aside, I use a small plastic "Picnic" cooler that my filter fits just about perfect. I fill it with warm water, add TSP then drop the filter in and close the lid. Let it soak a few days, giving it a bit of agitation once in a while, then rinse with clean water. Filters easily last about 2- 3 years.
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In my experience, using MPS to activate Bromine tends to end up with cloudy water. Use bleach instead!
Was the Br 5ppm before or after 4 adults soaked for 1 hour? if before then the 0 makes sense.
You have to deal with the large instant bather demand by adding about 2oz of bleach/person/hour. After a bit of experimenting you'll find the correct amount for your tub and bather load.
Do you have an Ozonator?, they can help with high bather load with Bromine.
Try a simple experiment, shock the tub to about 15ppm Br (use Bleach NOT MPS), wait 24 hrs. then recheck the Br. If it's low, you still have a high sanitizer demand, most likely Biofilm. Best way to deal with Biofilm is to flush with "Ahh Some". Most other "Flush" products are somewhat ineffective in dealing with Biofilm. Once the biofilm is gone, decontaminate with Chlorine (bleach) to about 100ppm.
It's not uncommon for a used tub to require more than 1 round of decontamination but if I had to guess, I'd say the Flush product you used was ineffective. SeaKlear Spa System Flush works, but AhhSome works the best.
Don't give up you will get it working properly. I'd ditch the MPS and use Bleach, It's more effective, IMHO, and a h*ll of a lot cheaper!!!
Waterbear, Chem Geek - can you guys think of anything I've missed?
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Stop adding Sodium Bicarbonate!!!
Adding Baking Soda increases TA and pH. Adding acid (dry or Muriatic) lowers pH and TA, you're chasing your tail by adding acid to lower TA & pH then adding Sodium Bi Carb, increasing TA & pH.
Carbonate in the water (TA) outgasses CO2 with aeration, which raises pH
Let the TA drop naturally to about 50ppm. Do Not add BS until it drops below 50. You can also add 50ppm borates which tends to stabilize pH with a TA of 40-50 but that's a more advanced topic. It sounds like you're new to spa's and hopefully following Waterbear's "Bromine for Beginners" this system normally has a pH range of 7.6 - 8.0 and naturally tends to drift up. Yes Waterbear's instructions call for an initial TA of 100 but that's designed to build a "Safety Net" against pH dropping too far (which can damage the Spa). Bromine is "Net" acidic and newbies often make measuring errors when dispensing acid.
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1 bottle for pH and one for Cl/Br sounds to me like an OTO type kit. I actually have one and find it useful for a quick pH / Cl check, more of a Go/No-GO test. I don't consider it accurate enough to make any adjustments with. For any adjustments, I use the K-2006.
One major feature of the K-2006 is the acid/base demand test which gives you precise data to make pH adjustments. This is very important for a spa, because of the small water volume. A pool is more forgiving simply due to it's large volume. Secondly. the FAS-DPD method is extremely accurate.
How are you measuring TA and CH?
OTO type kits have no TA/CH capability and "Test Strips" are inherently inaccurate!! Often referred to ,on this forum, as "Guess Strips".
Follow Waterbear's 3 step Bromine for beginners, It's a proven and well thought out system. The only thing you eventually need to change is to use a lower TA and add 50ppm Borates but that is a more advanced topic. To start out, just monitor and adjust the pH ( it most likely will drift up ) and let the TA fall naturally. Once you gain confidence and experience, you can add borates and reduce your TA.
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Yes use regular Clorox. Just make sure it's not any kind of "Specialty" bleach like "Splashless" etc..
Read up on the posts I mentioned, and one serious piece of advice: GET A PROPER TEST KIT!!!!! for Bromine it's a TAYLOR K-2106 but I also noticed you have a pool which I presume will be Chlorine? In which case you use a K-2006 and just multiply your Chlorine test result by 2.25 when measuring Bromine. I have both a Pool and a Spa. I ran the Spa on Bromine but converted to Dichlor /Bleach after installing the pool. You might want to consider that option too.
***NOTE*** When I read your post I saw you added "Bromine Booster" double-check what that product actually is. I suspect that it is MPS which activates Bromine (So does Chlorine Bleach) but may not contain any Sodium Bromide.
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Ok first things first, welcome to the Forum.
Now for your problem:
You mentioned your tub is "used", yes you cleaned it with a flush product (We strongly recommend Ahh Some) but you made no mention of "Decontamination"
Do yourself a big favour and read the "Stickys" at the top of this forum for Decontamination and read Waterbear's 3 step Bromine for Beginners.
Essentially your tub is consuming Br at a rapid rate. But I also don't see where you built a "Bromine Bank". Just adding 3 tabs to the floater will not build the required "Bank" it could take weeks, you have to add Sodium Bromide then "activate" it with either "Chlorine" (Bleach) or Non-Chlorine Shock (MPS).
Please read the suggested articles and feel free to ask any questions you have. The members of this forum are great people and are always willing to help.
Extreme Chlorine Depletion After Heavy Usage...
in Hot Tub Water Chemistry
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Be careful with trichlor!! It also boosts CYA which reduces the effectiveness of the chlorine. If you suspect biofilm then your only option would be to flush & decontaminate. When you refill, use dichlor then bleach, NOT trichlor!! You'll find it a very effective system an extremely economical.
The next time you have a Spa Party don't forget to hourly dose and shock immediately the next morning. At 102deg F and 0 sanitizer bacteria will grow exponentially!! Biofilm can develop in mere hours.