jeffinpickering
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Posts posted by jeffinpickering
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It's my wife's favourite feature on our tub (it's called 'the volcano'). She's a foot person (loves foot rubs).
I on the other hand don't care for foot stuff. So I use it to massage my lower legs. I'm 6'1", and ours doesn't make me feel cramped.
You really have to wet test to figure out what's best for you. Lounger vs. no lounger, volcano/dome vs. not, etc.
Would you buy a car for $10K without test driving it? Not likely. Same for a tub.
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I would suggest you leave the cover off in the sun for a bit, until your bromine level drops to around 5-7ppm, then test your pH to see what it really is and take it from there.
Ways Bromine sanitizer levels will drop:
1. Using the tub
2. Sunlight
3. Something growing in the tub
It isn't going to just drop on it's own, so if you shocked it to 11+ppm, covered it, and left it for a week, and have an ozonator, it's not likely to move much, even if you left the floater out.
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Why not three step Bromine?
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Eight 30g capfuls of Arctic Adjust Down could have your tub pretty acidic at this point.
As a point of reference (I use the same Arctic Adjust Down to adjust pH down on the rare ocassion when I need to) - 1/4-1/2 of a capful of Adjust Down usually takes our pH down by 0.1-0.4. [Tub is 300 gallons]
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Thanks all, and thanks Spanky for the lead to CT.
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Has anyone used both the scumbug and the zorbie that can compare the two?
I've used the Zorbie several times, and have not been all that impressed with the job it did. Plus, it's expensive ($16 here) and non-reusable/cleanable (replaced at every fill).
Is the scumbug any better? I know it's cheaper, and sounds like it can last longer since it is reusable/cleanable, but does it do a good job absorbing oils, etc?
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Once you get done with decontamination, follow the Bromine instructions (if you're sticking with Bromine) in the Chemistry section (also, follow ALL of them; you can't really pick and choose which steps to follow).
Note that the bather load you suggest (4 people, 60 mins per day) adds up to 4 bather hours per day; nevermind that 2 of them are kids. Your sanitizer demand is going to be quite significant! All the floater does is help maintain a residual level between soaks. It is not likely going to take care of your bather waste or keep your sanitizer levels up on it's own (nor with the ozonator) with that kind of bather load.
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Could try a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser too.
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The key is to have a well compacted base. Pea gravel is small, rounded, and doesn't compact. It's basically decorative.
We used 6" of granular A (6" compacted depth), then put large paving stones on top, plus the spa has a 'forever floor'.
As for height, keep it at or slightly above the surrounding level, for drainage purposes.
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At a bather load of 3+ hours per day, your Bromine demand is going to be pretty high (for residential) and you'll probably have to have a fairly high setting on your floater. Try measuring the Bromine both before and after a soak to see how much you're using up.
Also, if there are bathers using a lot of lotions, oils, etc. on their skin, they should shower before tubbing. The worst thing I've found for water clarity (and foaming) is bathers hopping in who have residual soap in their suits, or use a bunch of crap on their skin (like teenagers who use bronzers). We've tried asking people to rinse their suits and not put crap on their skin if using the tub when coming over, but I guess some just don't think it's a big deal. We now have very few guests in the tub.
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Also, you indicated that on this fill you added bromine starter (99% sodium bromide?) and tabs in the floater, but didn't mention shocking to activate the sanitizer? .
Yes he did.
Also, I added a 2oz (wt) packet of Leisure Time sodium bromide (99%) to establish the bromide bank. I ran the jets for about 15 min before shocking with 6oz (volume) of 6% bleach.
He mentioned doing it the first time around, but not the second. Where did the subsequent post go where he said he drained and filled again and still ended up with cloudy water because of residual in the plumbing? That's where he mentioned adding bromine starter, and putting the floater in, but nothing about shocking to activate the sanitizer. I also suggested he vacuum/blow out with a shopvac when draining and filling.
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I haven't tried those apps but my tub has its own push button control panel mounted right on the top edge of the tub - very convenient!
LOL!
Contrary to the belief of basement developers, we don't need a stupid app for absolutely everything in life.
Now, if they came up with something that could accurately measure water chemistry without me having to take a sample and spend 5 minutes doing it myself, they would have something!
My tub also has that super convenient topside control panel! Amazing!
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Received two possible causes from Taylor:
1. "It sounds like you are having some interference with magnesium . Magnesium is an alkaline earth metal , I believe it reacts differently to the EDTA(R-0012) than the transition metals, copper and iron. This is why it has been suggested to use an additional three drops of the indicator(R-0011L) to overcome the stealing tendency magnesium has".
So it could be magnesium rather than copper or other ions causing interference. Today I will try with extra drops of R-0012 at the start, and additional drops of R-0011L.
2. They checked the lot of R-0011L mine is from, and found it to be weak in colour. They are sending me a free replacement.
Great service!
Thanks waterbear, and thanks Taylor Technologies for good technical support.
Foaming in the tub is definitely down since calcium boost, so I think I'm at a good level; just want to verify it with a test.
Happen to know your lot number? I am also having issues to get the pink color. I have to add lots to get any pink. I know my tap water is like <10ppm calcium and have added calcium to the tub. With test strips the calcium is good, but no luck at all with the taylor kit.
I had R-0011L - Lot 4064E, but I would recommend obtaining the lot from your bottle and emailing Taylor directly to see whether the batch is weak.
As for your test strips, are you sure they measure Calcium Hardness? Test strips usually measure just total hardness.
Also, try the above tips re:sample size or additional indicator at the beginning.
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What is your bromine level (ppm) before a soak?
What is it after (before adding bleach)?
Are you testing with a proper test kit (not strips)? While figuring out the ideal amounts of chemicals is a bit of trial and error that is unique to your level of tub usage and may take a few days or a week to hammer down, it will be impossible to do without a proper test kit.
You need to get this dialed in (including determining the right setting for the floater, and start using it), or you're going to be constantly chasing it or overdosing it, to the point where your head pops off from the stress.
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You simply aren't going to find a true 4 person tub that weighs under 2650lbs filled.
All manuf. are grossly guilty of overstating the comfortable person capacity of their tubs. 6 people means more like 4. 4 means more like 2. 5 means you might get away with 3 depending on the layout.
So for 4 people you're likely looking at a "6 person" tub, which typically means min. 300-350 gallons of water. The water alone weighs 2500-3000lbs, not including the weight of the tub itself (600-1000lbs), nor bathers in it.
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Without adding sodium bromide on the fill, you will have a chlorine tub until a bromide bank is built up (good think you've been using bleach instead of something else). Ironically, by doing something you shouldn't be (putting your tablets in the filter basket instead of a floater), you may have accelerated building up your bank.
You should get a floater for controlling the release of the tabs into your water.
The ozonator will simply slightly decrease the required demand from your tabs (ie. a lower the setting on your floater) necessary to maintain a proper sanitizer level.
It sounds like you're still sweating it too much. Just follow ALL the steps from http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30249
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Exact same thing happen to me with my Coyote.
Before you start popping panels off, push/jiggle the lights to see if you can tell which one is loose. That might at least save you pulling off multiple panels to figure out which light is the culprit.
In my case it was one in the foot area of the lounger seat - so people were probably playing with the light with their feet and worked it loose.
Fixing the culprit was a cinch, as there is no foam sprayed on the shell in my tub, and it was just a matter of tightening the backing nut that had been worked loose.
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I had to give up on reading all the replies you were just going in circles it seemed.
First off, the only mention I can find of the word SHOWER was to wash off after using the tub.
Let me say this loud and clear....ALL TUB USERS MUST SHOWER BEFORE ENTERING THE TUB.
I run a cottage resort with 7 tubs and I can tell you people do not get this.
:angry: The scum and film on your tub was from moisturizers and hair gels or conditioners and makeup and dead skin.... need I go on.
Have you ever swum in a lake? There is bacteria everywhere so lets not get worked up to much over this.
There is no need to flush and fill twice. SERIOUSLY it is not baking on in the pipes. Dump the water, fill it and add your sanitizer of choice. You can add some shock if you want but the proper sanitizer will deal with the miniscule amount of anything diluted into a tub full of water. If you are on city water which is chlorinated, that amount of clean water would eliminate anything that might have been in a jet.
Bromine does not burn off as fast in the heat of a tub as chlorine does.
Make sure before the crowd comes over that you have had the proper Bromine level for a couple days, this will mean you have enough banked in the tub
Make sure everyone showers FIRST.
when you have finished for the night put a cap full of spa shock(not pool shock) in the tub. In the morning, before noon if you can, check the levels. You will need to add Bromine usually if there has been many bathers.
ALSO and this is big as well. Cloudy foamy water from many bathers can be as simple as detergent residue in the swim suits. Many people are using the 2x or 3x detergents and still using a cap full which is way to much. This does not wash out completely in the laundry. When they land in the tub without showering in their swimsuit all the detergent rinses out nicely in your tub. I see this all the time and can just about tell which laundry detergent they use. There is no chemical that can counter this.
"I had to give up on reading all the replies you were just going in circles it seemed."
Huh? What kind of smug statement is that? Most responses here provided the same information, and linked to the same helpful instructions for decontaminating and having a properly sanitized spa.
Your response however, is a mix of both ok thoughts(showering, keeping suits detergent free) and misinformation (comparing a hot tub to a lake, suggesting that the chlorine level in tap water could kill anything in a hot tub, that bromine only has to be kept at the proper levels for a couple of days prior to bather use, confusion of the difference between a bromide bank and the available level of bromine sanitizer, that biofilm and bacteria do not multiply in the plumbing, etc).
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The Decontamination procedure here (http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19115 ) varies from this procedure http://www.spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/spa-contamination.htm - why does this board recommend flushing FIRST and then chlorine and then filling again (2 drains!!) versus chlorine first, then flushing (1 drain!)? I'm just trying to understand the difference in protocol.
That question is answered in the corresponding thread. Basically, superchlorination and flush at the same time will impact the effectiveness of the flush.
Given what you experienced, I would definitely follow the two fill procedure from this site, as it sounds like you had a biofilm disaster. What process did you employ when starting the tub to ensure it was not only balanced, but sanitized as well?
2.)I've read that even crystal clear water can contain bad bacteria. This is very disheartening and frankly I will NEVER get in the hot tub again - but nothing I can do to prevent the hubby from it. So how do I know if my water is good or not? We are pool owners and I know how to judge that - if my pool water is crystal clear you can darn well bet my water chemistry is fine! But I read that with hot tubs, none of that matters - water can be clear and water chemistry good and you STILL have bad bugs. So what's the point? Seriously? What am I missing here? There has to be some way of knowing your water is ok and really clean? Testing will tell you your water chemistry but if bad bugs can live in proper chemistry then I am puzzled as to how to know if your water is ok or not???
Clear does not equal sanitary in a pool any more than it does a hot tub, though hot tubs may be more prone to rapidly growing biofilm and bacteria due to temperature and smaller volume. The key to knowing if your water is good or not is to deconaminate and make sure you ALWAYS have the proper sanitizer level from the get-go.
Also, appears to me that hot tub water chemistry is much more complex and difficult.
Not really. Read the sticky on 3-step Bromine in this section of the forum. It's pretty easy. Bromine requires less frequent work than chlorine for a tub.
Take a deep breath, start from scratch, and follow:
1. Decontamination process here, and then
2. Pick which sanitizer you want to use and follow the corresponding sticky in this forum.
3. Enjoy having a tub!!
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Ok, dollars and cents aside....
From a filtration and water quality standpoint, does it make a difference whether the tub is programmed to run one 6 hour cycle per day, vs. two 3hr cycles, vs. three 2hr cycles?
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What is your calcium hardness?
Total hardness doesn't mean much. Our tub was foaming, and very low calcium hardness was the culprit.
If your calcium hardness is low, and you raise it, and still get foaming (and you know it isn't attributable to - or is more than what is attributable to - body oils, detergents, etc.), you may need to do a full-on decontamination. Instructions are posted as a sticky in this forum.
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Ok, here's a question for the power usage experts.
The following outlines the rates we pay in our area:
http://www.veridian.on.ca/pdf/TOU_Prices_Winter_2011.pdf
Based on the cents/KwH differences, is it worthwhile to try to program the filter cycles to run solely in off-peak hours?
And, in a general sense, what is the ideal total filter cycle duration per day? Our tub sees an average of 5-7 bather hours per week. On our control pad I can set number and duration of cycles per day (1-4 cycles, and 0-6hrs per cycle are the limits). We do bromine as our sanitizer, and there is an ozonator in the tub.
Once the appropriate number of hours of duration has been established, does the number of cycles make any difference? (eg. if 6hrs per day of filtration cycles is ideal, does it make a difference whether we do one 6hr cycle, or two 3hr cycles, or three 2hr cycles, etc).
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Cover Too Big And Sweating A Puddle
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
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Does your tub cover have straps with clips to hold the cover down tight to the tub?
If not, you could try adding some.