tom the spa guy
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Posts posted by tom the spa guy
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I'm going to call the dealer about this, but I'm curious if it's a common problem and what it might be. We've had our Vita Spa for a year now, and I recently noticed a bunch of little "bubbles" or bumps in the surface under the water by one of the seats. Is that something to worry about? I don't think they were there before because they're in a spot where they would have been noticable to feel, i.e. near the foot jets in the lounger.
It sounds like your shell is bubbling - you may want to check your warranty for the shell, as this is usually a sign of a defect in the material of the shell.
Hope this helps.
tomthespaguy
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pg_rider:
If your cabinet is made of some sort of synthetic, then the only thing you'll probably have to worry about it the waterline / waterspots on the side of the tub. However, if the cabinet is real wood, then you should really treat it so that the water won't damage it.
Hope this helps.
Tom
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I was hoping someone might be able to help me out on a balancing issue. I have a new Bullfrog Spa. The manual indicates to adjust Total Alkalinity to 125 - 150 PPM. My initial TA test (using titration method) indicated TA of about 60 PPM. I used Alkalinity Plus (sodium bicarbonate) to raise the TA to the 130 - 140 PPM range. pH testing (phenol red method) then indicated high pH of 8.2 or higher. I began bringing down the pH with pH decrease (sodium bisulfate) and when I finally got pH to Bullfrog specs of 7.4 - 7.6 Total Alkalinity was back down to about 60 PPM. It appears that pH and TA track proportionally but how in the heck do I reach my target levels and raise TA without raising pH or lower pH without lowering my TA? I attemped to raise TA again and pH shot up too! Very confused!
FWIW - I'm using granular sodium di-chloro as my sanitizer, an occassional non-chlorine shock (potassium peroxymonosulfate) and calcium hardness is at about 200 PPM
One thing I noticed is that test strips tend to vary wildly on TA levels. While my HTH titration kit indicated TA of 130 - 140, I tried using both HTH and Clean Water Blue strips and they indicated much higher TA levels???
Thanks!
Hi Paul:
Your Calcium Hardness is a bit on the low side. Increase your CH closer to 350.
Be sure that when you are circulating your chemicals that you have turned off any air venturis or blowers, as air in the jet stream will raise the pH as well. Using a Total Alkalinity Increaser (Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate) will generally only raise the TA (the pH will be effected, but not as much as your experience has resulted). When you use chemicals like pH up or down (Sodium Carbonate / Sodium Bisulfate), your pH and Alkalinity will both be affected - however a proper TA level serve as a buffer for the pH.
Make sure that your water has circulated for at least 30 minutes between testing (turn all air venturis/blowers off).
Test strips can be accurate as long as they are not expired and you use them correctly - no swirling and lay the test strip against the bottle flat. Don't try to analyze the color - go with the first reading. Most test strips require a 15 second window to read (as it takes that long for the proper color to appear, which is why water test stations like PinPoint that use UDV's (unit dose vials) to read levels recommend filling the vials from "right to left" and then start testing "left to right"
Hope this helps.
Tom
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Hello Tom,
I also have a 24,000 gallon pool, and after changing the water last year with the same tap water, I didn't have any problem with the wild pH swings I get with the spa. BUT - I'll run down to the local pool supply store today and get a TA test kit, then report back here what happens.
Thanks, Bill
Hi Bill,
Something to keep in mind is that although we like to think of a spa as just a small pool, it's actually more like a large bathtub.
Because of the smaller volume of water (500 or so vs. 24,000), the spa (with it's hot water) reacts more with each addition of chemicals and/or (for lack of a better word) bacteria. Just think of this - dispense a cup of dirt into a large pool, and you'll hardly see it - but the same size cup of dirt in your small spa will show much more.
Alkalinity is the key, once it's in check it is easier to get the pH correct. And because each person's body has a different chemical makeup some people's spas are "easier" to keep balanced than others.
Hope this helps. Please let me know if I can help anymore.
tom
Bill,
One more thing . . .
Next time before adding your Bromine tablets, check your pH and TA and get them in check before adding the bromine. Not that you committed any sins by adding the Bromine first, it is just easier to get your initial pH and TA balanced without the additional chemicals.
Also be sure your Calcium Hardness (CH) is in the proper range as well.
Hope this helps.
Tom
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Periodically I change the water in my spa, using tap water. I then put 2 bromine tablets in the filter and let the pump run for a few hours while it heats (220 VAC) up the water. When I check the pH, it is very high, so I use dry acid (pH down) to bring the pH down to 7.4. The next day I check the pH, and even though nobody has used the spa the pH is very high again. This will keep happening for 10 days or so, then the pH will stabilize. I've thought about adding stabilizer (cynauric acid) to stabilize the pH, but been told that this will work only with chlorine levels. So why does is take so many days to stabilize the pH level? What can I do to have it stabilize right away?
Thanks, Bill
Hi Bill,
It sounds like you don't have your Total Alkalinity in check. It should be 80 - 150 ppm. Having you alkalinity in the proper range will act as a pH buffer and will help you in getting the pH to stay in the proper range. Without the TA in the correct range, your pH can up and down without any "reasonable" rhyme or reason. After adding pH increaser or decreaser, it should only take about 1/2 hour of circulation for you to see a change in the level.
Hope this helps.
tom the spa guy
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I am switching from Nature2 to a Bromine system. I was looking into the Spa Frog Floating System. Has anyone had good luck with this system? Is it easy to understand and use?
Also, does anyone like any other Bromine spa care kits?
The Spa Frog system is basically a Nature2 system made to be compatible with Bromine.
If you were happy with the Nature2 system, you should be fine with the Spa Frog - you'll still have to keep your water balanced, but basically a set it and forget it type of a system like the Nature 2.
Hope this helps.
tom the spa guy
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as the title says. are their other products that we can use to sanitize our spa that are not so harsh? We have one in the family that is getting nasty chemical burns from the bromine. It effects nobody else. We do use this spa a ton and need a very good sanitizer. thank you. steve
Hi Steve,
Bromine is sold in different qualities - most bromine has as much as 60% - 80% chlorine in it - check your labels. As you purchase bromine from Walmarts and Home Depots, etc. you'll see higher chlorine contents.
There are a couple of alternatives:
BaquaSpa is a hydrogen peroxide based sanitizer that is chlorine & bromine free. The sanitizer does not get "used up" unless it is actually disinfecting, as opposed to bromine/chlorine tablets that melt away and get broken down by the high heat. It is also pH independent, so it's sanitizing effectiveness is not diminished by high/low pH / alk levels. It does cost more on a per-bottle basis, but since you only add the sanitizer as needed (if you don't use the spa as much one week as the next, you'll add less or even none), the average cost is about the same.
Another alternative is Brilliance for Spas, also distributed by Arch Chemicals. Brilliance for Spas is Bromine that is 100% chlorine free, so the harshness is really reduced. I've had great success with it from my customers. In addition, their metal control has Soy, and their Oxidizer has mineral salts as well so it also leads to a pleasant feeling.
A 3rd alternative is to get a Bromine Generator - effectively a salt water system for spas. It utilizes Sodium Bromide (a lot of it), to produce the bromine. As (all) the bromine disinfects, it lets off bromamides - i think that's the correct term - and that contributes to a good portion of the "bromine smell" (as well as the chlorine). With a Bromine Generator, it takes the bromamides and converts it back into bromine - so the smell is effectively eliminated. You can turn the levels of bromine up or down to maintain a good 3 - 5 ppm, and to also get proper levels when you're expecting heavy bather loads (like a party). Because there are no glues and such holding tablets together, the water stays clearer longer, and water changes come about every year or so (instead of 90-120 days). Although you don't have to continually add bromine with the generator, since it makes its own, you still have to maintain proper pH, alkalinity, and calcium hardness levels.
All good alternatives - the final decision will be based on a little more research for the best solution for you including your budget and willingness to "learn" a new chemical system. My preferential order is: Bromine Generator, Brilliance, Baqua, and last on the list would be chlorine or bromine (sold at walmarts, home depots and similar places as well as spa dealers)
Hope that helps.
tom the spa guy
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Its better when the manufacturers have confidence in their spa line RATHER THAN A DEALER! Hey Tommy boy who else has no jet warranty? Warranty is only as good as the manufacturers warranty. Any warranty promise from a Cal Spa dealer other than whats written on the manufacturers warranty MEANS NOTHING and has no legal binding agreement. Extended warranties and a promise to cover parts that aren't covered under a Cal spa warranty again MEAN NOTHING and the dealer for what ever reason can change his mind. What if the Cal Spas dealer goes bankrupt or they no longer carry Cal Spas then how good would your extended warranty hold up TOMTHESPAGUY? Thats why u have a manufacturers warranty, its for your own protection. You have your house, your car and your spa which is the 3rd largest investment and it so important that you protect it with more than a handshake from a spa dealer. Spa dealers come and go so, be smart and think !!!MANUFACTURERS WARRANTY!!!
Wow! Pretty intense.
I merely stated that most manufacturers don't cover the jets, seals, and bearing - and that it just wasn't Cal Spas.
Some manufacturers don't even list their warranty on their website.
You're right - dealers can come and go. So can manufacturers - anybody get warranty service on a Yugo lately?
You've obviously got an axe to grind somewhere on someone - too bad you can't take a non-confrontational post like the one I made (simply stating that Cal Spas isn't the only manufacturer with exclusions and that there are dealers out there that will back you up as well - in writing - and that some will even go above and beyond the manufacturer warranty - I'm not just talking about Cal Spas dealers, but others as well).
Sure, the warranty maybe only as good as the manufacturer says it is, but ultimately, it's the dealer who supports in and backs it up and says "you're my customer, I'll get it fixed for you".
Sorry if you couldn't see that. Oh, and the name's Tom. Not Tommy Boy. You must have me mistaken for another one of your friends.
tom the spa guy
PS. Who else has no jet warranty? Hot Springs (they only cover their MotoMassage Jet), Catalina, Dimension 1, Coleman, and too many others to mention. Large and small manufacturer's. You know how they usually get out of that warranty, even if they do cover it? By blaming the failure on improper water chemicalization. Oh, and if I've inadvertently listed a manufacturer that does cover the jets, please let me know so I can revise my post.
tom the spa guy
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It's not a Cal Spas exclusive.
Other manufacturers have the same exclusions - seals, bearings, jets, trip charges, etc.
The reason why bearings, seals, and jets are usually excluded is because most of the time (97%+), they fail due to improper water chemicalization including water balance and calcium hardness levels. It's like driving your Mercedez Benz without engine oil, burning it up and returning it to the dealer and expecting them to replace everything "under warranty"
Some dealers have enough confidence in their spa line that they offer extended warranties. Even extended warranties that cover the bearings and seals. Check around and ask your Dealer what they will or will not repair. You'll be surprised - some adhere strictly to the specific manufacturer's rules, others will cover you.
tomthespaguy
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I used bromine for the past 5 years and I got tired of the smell, and of the bright white waterline rings on my tub.
I recently switched to Baqua, and now have that peanut butter goo, my blue light cover deteriorated, and I still have the bright white rings.
I've drained the tub. And I'm willing to try again with the Baqua - but would love some advice:
1. How do I get rid of the amber goo? How do I keep it away? I was able to be a little lazy with the bromine (was able to ignore my tub for a month at a time); will I have to be religious with the baqua chemicals?
2. I unplugged my ozonator (retailer told me it'd burn off the baqua chemicals too quickly) - would leaving it plugged in help?
3. Can I find a light cover that the baqua won't deteriorate? (I like the blue light in the water)
4. Does anyone know how to get rid of the white tub rings? I've used plastic brillo, baqua shell cleaner, orangeclean, even a soft-scrub product; no luck.
Thank you!
Cosmos
Hi Cosmos:
Baqua is a very good product. Here are some tips:
1. The amber goo that you describe is a couple of things. Partially, it's the contaminants in your water that the Baqua Spa could not dissolve and dissapate. Baqua actually coagulates these contaminants so that your filter can catch it and you can wipe it off, so a little of the amber goo will be present each time you drain and refill with fresh water or add a significant amount of water (from spillage/evaporation). The other partial reason for the goo is Metals in the Water. There are over 80 metals out there, but we only test for 2 - copper and iron. Using Metal control (it's the one chemical that you can put in your spa and not worry about overchemicalizing) will also help to control the goo.
2. Tests with an Ozonator and Baqua Spa showed that it "ate" up Baqua Sanitizer more than no ozonator. However, the results were very minimal - Baqua puts it in their literature that you should check your sanitzer lever more often if you have a sanitizer, but just because their lawyers said they needed to. But the difference is really minimal.
3. The white cloudiness is usually caused by high Ph, Alkalinity, & Calcium Hardness Levels. If any or all of these are extremely high, there is more potential for the white waterline ring.
Hope this helps.
tomthespaguy
Little "bubbles" In The Plastic
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
Good points to look at . . .
tomthespaguy