I Need a Spa
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Posts posted by I Need a Spa
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Not all ozonators are created equal. Some are UV and some are CD. The UV type put out much less ozone and need a bulb change every 12-18 months or they become useless. The CD (which I certainly prefer) put out much more ozone but some require a chip change every year or so, some do not. Ask lots of questions and find out what you're getting before you make a decision based on price alone thinking they're all the same.
I can answer my own question now. Eclipse make the CD Ozonators for Sundance, and it looks like Del ozone makes Eclipse. I could be wrong, but they look exactly the same.
Sundance p/n 6473-126 is available for $138.50. (www.spaandpoolsource.com)
(I can't find the part my dealer wanted to sell me 6473-125.)
Any of you Sundance dealers have any info on that p/n? What's the difference?
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What company makes these for Sundance? My dealer wanted $250 for one. Seems high.
I noticed Del Ozone Platinum on e-bay for $171 delivered. Installation looks pretty easy, I think I can handle that myself.
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No. I've often said that sometimes it's more important who NOT to buy from (I have my list but I'll refrain) but in this case all the makers you mention are not only not in the "stay away" group but are top notch IMO.
Hey Spa Searcher -
What's your price point?
Last month I narrowed my search down to Sundance or Caldera. I found that for $5600 I could buy a Sundance Bahia and be happy with it, so I did. I also tested Caldera Geneva Utopia ($8500) and Hawaiian Paradise ($7200).
You asked for specifics so here it is:
- Geneva lounger is deep. People shorter than about 5'5" will need a snorkle (my wife) or a water pillow
- Hawaiian is great, but not $1700 greater thean the Bahia
- The low end Caldera tubs (whatever they call them) have a 2 year waranty but the Sundance Bahia has 5
Caldera makes a tub that is about the same as a Bahia, but given the warranty and 2 extra jets we went for the Sundance.
If money was not a factor I would have bought the Caldera Geneva Utopia. Engineering and build quality is better than Sundance and Hot Springs. (moto-massage is weird old technology). My wife would just have to sit on my lap.
Just my opinion.
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Just a note on what i did with my electrical. Instead of using the outdoor GFCI, i ended up (on the advice of my electrician) putting a GFCI breaker inside my house in my breaker box (he didn't like the idea of using breakers outdoors, no matter what kind of waterproof box, since it was a relative who installed several tubs, pools, etc i respected this opinion). Dug a trench 2.5' deep as per by-law codes for burying cable, needed about 45 feet of 8-3 tech cable. Installed an outdoor disconnect as well (required by law, and by almost anyone who will repair the spa if needed). Total time took me about 2 hours, along with my electrician (trench was dug by myself and 2 friends the day before in about 1/2 hour). We had to move a few of the breakers around (easily done) to fit the GFCI in my box. Total cost was about $360 Cdn for parts (breaker, outdoor disconnect, tech cable).
Kahuna - I read my post and the part about the gfci may be a bit confusing. My main panel is in my garage, and that's where I put the gfci, same as you. I feel much better with it there rather than outside.
-One more thing on the electrical; you may as well put in a 110 gfci at the same time and pull the wire with your 220. It's just a little bit more labor and you'll be able to add some outdoor recepticles whever you want. I used mine for the low voltage lighting transformer and it's also perfect for the Christmas lights I'm running around the deck rail! I put in a 20amp 110v gfci rather than a 15amp.
-We're using the Sundance version of the Nature 2 system. I can't tell if it's doing anythnig or not.
-I got a quote from our Sundance dealer to add the Sundance ozonator for $250 total cost. I'm leaning towards doing it myself with the Del ozone Platinum $155. (Check e-bay and you'll find it.) I need to get the cover off and see what it looks like first. Also, need to check to see if that voids my warranty.
Hey By the Way - Merry Christmas all. I'll be hitting the hot tub after the santa duties are complete on Christmas Eve, hope it snows.
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About a month ago we bought a Sundance Bahia, based on preference and what some you had to say about the brand, options and so forth. Here's some feedback for people shopping for a hot tub.
What we like about the 2005 Sundance Bahia:
-Good size and shape for a family, not too small
-Easy to move from one seat to the next
-Seems to be of good quality, no issues with performance
-Price $5600, good bang for the buck
What we'll get on our next tub:
-1 pump is 2 speed, the other only has 1 (high) speed. I'd rather both pumps were 2 speed.
-No air pump. It would be nice to have just air at times without water pumps being on.
-I'm adding an ozonator to this tub, can't hurt.
-Lighted keys on the controller. It's hard to see where the buttons are at night.
-Deeper. I'm 6'1" and only 1 seat is really deep enough to sit with water up to my neck. (selfish request)
Other observations
Electrical connection - Opted for GFI in the main panel and disconnect outside, rather than a "Hot tub" disconnect. The HT disconnect has a GFI breaker and the disconnect swith in one unit. It's in a nema 3r rainproof box, which is fine if it is somewhat protected. Blowing rain can penetrate the box and cause nuisannce tripping. My cost was $1k for the hook up, more than I expected. The other option is cheaper. Home Depot sells a 50amp hot tub disconnect but not the 60amp (in my area). Buy it yourself if you can. Get a quote for the electrical work first.
Chlorine and Bromine (dichlor) are working pretty good. I got in the second week with the water a little cloudy. Don't do that!!! I got a rash. Chemicals are your friend. No problems since. Dichlor after every use (1 Tbsp) and Chlorine every 2 days (2 Tbsp) seems to be maintaining the levels correctly. I also shock with Clorine every week (6 Tbsp). I try to do this late at night so it can sit for at least a day. I think is different for every tub so you'll have to find your own pattern.
We added SpaZaz. Don't do that. The smell lasts for about 1 day and the tub gets foamy. It does soften the water though, which was nice. You can get the foam out with your hands and that seems to help. Hope it isn't messing up my deck.
Hope this helps somebody.
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Our local spa shop has a chemical free water treatment called clear choice. I guess in short in adds good bacteria to fight bad bacteria, almost like a natural eco system? Anyone used it or familiar with it, any advice?
thanks
You might not want to sit in the middle of a bacteria war. MHO. Chlorine is your friend, just use the right ammount.
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I'm taking delivery of a Sundance Bahia tomorrow and the dealer recommended the Sundance version of the Nature 2 system. It's a mineral system that fits into the "brominator" on Sundance spas, rather than in the center of the filter. This is because of the way the filter fits in the Sundance. Lasts 4 months.
Has anyone used this and have comments?
Of course, chlorine is also used with this system, just like the Nature 2 system.
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I can't speak to your specific prices on the sundance models, but I know from my shopping experiences that prices do fluctuate and I recommend finding two dealers that have sundance and playing them off each other. So many of the deals that folks have ended with seem to include cover, lifter, ozone, start up chems and delivery. Work toward that list of extras and see where it gets you.
I ended up going with a dealer who was $500 cheaper and would deliver free over 70 miles away. I am not sure if I will have them service as I will pay a travel fee, but the local higher priced dealer already stated a willingness to service as well. Shop around and save some dough.
Grannie - I think spa-freak is correct in that strategy. If you can't find another Sundance dealer just tell them you're considering a Watkins product and you have a few choices in that same price range that you'd be satisfied with, Caldera Olympia, or Tiger River ?model. Worked for me (Bahia $5600).
BTW - I get the Bahia tomorrow, psyched!
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Sundance Bahia - $5600 including steps, lifter, cover, chemicals, delivery and setup. In stock, delivery this week.
Other quotes considered:
Caledra Geneva Utopia $8500, steps, cover, lifter, chemicals, deliv and setup
Sundance Cameo - $8000, steps, cover, lifter, chemicals, deliv and set up
Also considered the Caldera Olympia at about the same cost as the Bahia, but it only has a 2 year warranty. Very similar models. We asked if we could buy additional warranty on that tub and the dealer said no. Sundance has a 5 year parts and labor non-prorated even on their low end (700 series) spas, like the Bahia. That was important to us.
AND now for something completly different ... - SPA QUOTES - AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM
There's a post at the top of the forum about getting Spa quotes. It doesn't work. I got a reply (which I posted there and it was deleted) from the publisher explaining that they weren't gettnig any responses from the dealers, so they stopped offernig the service. If you submitt a quote request you will receive an e-mail referring you to your local dealer, depending on whatever brand you asked for. You won't get a quote.
Again, my posts were deleted at the top, so I'm putting it here.
Good luck consumers, thanks to the sales"people" who offered some insight. Over and out.
I needed a Spa
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I have a gulf coast spa and the problem I have with it is MY water, not the spa. My water is has an elevated Calcium Hardness and My pH is out of this world. Of course I have only had it since June 05.
I am using the local guy for help now and the water still acts the same. I just visit him in person instead of over the phone.
Sounds like "no fault warranty" isn't in the Gulf Coast vocabulary. If I were considering the purchase of a Spa whos manufacturer did not include a "no fault" product, I'd have to ask exactly what the parameters on wtaer hardness, PH, and so forth are in order to avoid damage. I wonder if the product specs sheet or user manual defines the acceptable range for measurable water quality attributes, i.e. PH or water hardness?
Anyway, no Gulf Coast for me. I'd rather pay now than later.
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have not heard of this brand but whatever you do donot buy the gulf coast spa that has been running on infomercials nothing but problems.
Frank - It's interesting you mention Gulf Coast. I called on an ad in the local paper this weekend posted by what seemed to be a lady who had bought a tub, but was relocated and wanted to sell it. The ad said she paid $8900 but would take $3900 because she had to sell. It turned out that "Karen" was selling Gulf Coast spas, and there was a ton of background noise when I called (chatter) so I doubt she was in her kitchen.
I "googled" the ad and found the excat same text that ran in a Raleigh and Charlotte, NC Newspaper. The local phone number she posted in the ad was an answering maching that gave another phone number to call. Anyway, the whole thing smells like fish.
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I haven't seen any discussion about this brand, Bullfrog Spas. Does anyone have any comments about the Bullfrog model 682?
We're leaning toward the Caldera Hawaiian, Paradise series. The Bullfrog is bigger and cheaper. The wet test will be the decision maker.
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Just to add to chas's comments, there are models without the Moto, but you can't take a moto out and replace it with something else.
thanks Guzz for the straight answer.
Stallion - No I didn't post here a year ago, not the same person. I don't expect Hot Springs to change their design, but the salesman mentioned jets can be customized or configured differently. I forgot to ask if that applied to the moto-massage, so I though one of the HS guys could give me a quick answer.
I'm buying something this week, I can't imagine a buyer lurking in here for a year, that's weird.
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All you HS Peeps, Can I get a HS Spa without the Moto-Massage?
I'd prefer a regular stationary jet instead. Please don't get hung on the phrase "regular jet". I know there are several different ones in a HS spa. They turn and pulse and whatever. I just don't want the Moto-massage.
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Clay - I got a quote for the same stuff for $7900 on the Envoy.
The only thing I don't like is the weird moto massage.
Hey Clay - What was the $ quote you got on the Sundance Cameo? Sorry if it's already in your message somewhere, I got tired of reading about how hot tubs suck.
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Don’t take this offensively, but you definitely are not comparing apples to apples when comparing the Palermo to the Envoy and Tahitian. A more accurate comparison would be the Sundance Cameo.
Chris - Yea you're right. It holds 400gals though, a bit more than the other at much less cost. The quote on Cameo I got from the Sundance rep was $8500, which is nuts.
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It is quite amusing to see the Jacuzzi and Sundance dealers both claiming that they bought out the other. In a way, they are both correct. Jacuzzi, the parent bought Sundance but Sundance, the company builds all the spas.
Somewhere floating around in my office I have a copy of the original press release regarding the purchase and the arrangement.
LOL - SpaTech you're still jabbin at me after my first post when I said something like "don't tell me to do a wet test or it all depends on personal preference". Hey, I agree, the wet test is the ultimate factor. But you gotta understand that to a vrigin like me every spa feels awesome! (probably even a Jim-the-Jim special). I can't wait to see the follow up to that comment.
I've narrowed the hunt down to a Sundance, Hot Spring, or Caldera model. Sundance is winning on cost vs. size and Caldera is winning on overall quality. But I haven't wet tested anything yet.
SO far here's the models and price quotes I have:
(includes cover, cover lifter, steps, deliver and set up)
Sundance Palermo $5900
Hot Spring Envoy $7900
Caldera Tahitian (or Hawaiian) $7300
Electrician $400 or so
Wine $?
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Hey Terminator,
Went to wet test the Envoy at the dealer that quoted it for $9,100 but the only had the Vista to test. So I tested the Vista, dealer was telling me the jet pressure and feel etc. would be the same as the Enoy. Is this true?
Then I left there and tried the Caldera Geneva Utopia spa at another dealer. Did not feel it was of the same quality as the Hot Springs.
So I thought I would go up the road further to another Hot Spring dealer and they had the Envoy but I had to "dry test it" the Captain's seat did seem a little nicer (hard to tell with no water). This place gave me a quote that put the other to shame. A package including CD ozone, cover removal system, startup kit and steps for $7,9995. This is over a $1,000 difference. They also had the Coleman 481 for $7,495 but have not heard alot about them. Both Hot Spring dealers have been around for over 15 years and are in good standings with BBB. Think I may go with the Envoy for $7,995 Should I insist on wet testing the Envoy before I buy or just use the Vista testing as a gauge?
Clay
Clay - I got a quote for the same stuff for $7900 on the Envoy.
The only thing I don't like is the weird moto massage.
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I went to look at Caldera Spas today and they looked great. The Caldera salesman mentioned that he had prior experience selling Sundance Spas, and that the build quality of the Sundance brand has gone down in recent years. I believe he said Sundance had been sold/bought in the last few years.
Are there any recent changes in the build quality of Sundance Spas?
My understanding is that the brand is well recognized and generally considered one of the better spa manufacturers. The local Caldera salesman says they aren't making them as well as they used to and that service calls run high on the brand in general.
I'm really interested in the Sundance Palermo model, but now I'm a bit leary of the brand. I'm just looking for a 2nd opinion, if anyone can offer a comment.
Thanks
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HotSpring dealers only mark their spas up $10.
Terminator
OK that solves my problem, I'm buying a Hot Spring. Jim - I know you're in Texas - do you get those from the Mexico plant?
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We're not telling!
OK - I'll assume there are a bunch of spa sales"people" (for Amanda) here. I have 6k to spend in Richmond, VA. I'm buying something in the next 30 days.
I never read the rules for this forum but I'll bet it says no selling allowed. If anybody wants to sell a name brand tub send the info to:
2trippie@comcast.net
We'll keep it out of the forum after that. I will not repeat any quotes back into the forum. You won't be stepping on any local dealer toes because I haven't been to any other than Vita Spa. I don't think the Keyes backyard junk at Home Depot counts, I'm not considering that brand anyway.
Thanks
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I don't think it's a matter of being ashamed but the folks in the forum are mainly here to help give positive advice and not "bash" other companies. A reputable dealer will provide suggestions on how to get the information you need to get the information you need to make your decision instead of telling you another company is "bad/ stinkers/ rotten eggs and/or ripoffs". The best thing I can recommend is to look in the Better Bus. B. for information regarding a spa company not in good standing. It'll only take a couple of minutes and it is a pretty good way to find out if there are outstanding unhappy customers... although this is a guide. If you find that there are outstanding "marks" on their BBB standing, don't hesitate to talk to the dealer about it and how it's being handled. Also, see if the company you are interested in can offer some long time customers to talk to that are happy with the service they've been provided. To make your search easier, pick 3 of the local companies (preferrably built close by) and compare how they are built, quality of materials and lead time on their service calls.
ok. Does everybody here sell hot tubs?
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Thanks Chris. That's the correct models. I eyeballed them yesterday. The new models are coming in and he's wanting to clear out the old models.
I'm a newbie, but those prices seem reasonable. I'm starting to see that markup is huge and MSRP doesn't mean much. Ever buy a new car at MSRP? It seems like hot tubs are similar. MHO.
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That is a very good point. Most news spas will feel good. They will not necessarily all "fit" you well but the hot water and jets will feel good. Pay attention to whether it seems sturdy, what your dealer is like and how long they've been around and whether the manufacturer is known to be good about covering their warranty.
So, with all that said... Are there any SPA manufacturers that are really bad? Stinkers, rotten eggs, rip-off companies that I should not even consider?
If I can reduce the field that would help.
Don't be ashamed people...Who has a crappy hot tub? WHo made it?
What's The Typical Spa Price Markup?
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
Dumpster dive your dealer for a week or so, you'll find out.