southsider
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Posts posted by southsider
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I bought a Dreammaker Big EZ this spring and love it (I posted a review at SpaDepot if you want to learn more). It does use forced friction to heat (contrary to what others said above), which makes it easy on the wallet. Yes, it takes longer to heat the water on fill-up, but that's not a big inconvenience to me. If it's a concern of yours, buy one of the new hybrid heat models, which have a supplemental heater--the cost is only a few hundred $ more. As an aside, Dreammaker support is awesome. They helped me with an ozonator installation problem I had (returned my call within 10 minutes). If you want a spa with lots of bells and whistles, this is not the one for you. However, if you want a reliable basic tub with adequate jets and a great price, I strongly recommend Dreammaker.
Quoting from the Spa Depot itself in the product information about the Big EZ that you purchased:
"Standard DreamMaker spas are single speed (high only) and the water is warmed by recovering heat generated by the motor."
They also recommend that you add a REAL heater for more efficiency:
"The Econ-Circ system uses a 2-speed pump plus an efficient 900W heater which runs on low speed, only when needed. This is a more efficient heating system with shorter, quieter cycles. This option reduces monthly energy costs, and is especially recommended for those living in colder climates. Water heating time is also reduced, and the temperature is better maintained."
The Big EZ may be a good spa, but, as I have pointed out above, the "Hot Stick", supposed "friction" heating is completely bogus. I suspect that is why the Spa Depot does not even mention it.
However, they do mention this:
"DreamMaker models with the Econo-Circ upgrade meet the stringent California Energy Commission standards for portable spas. This upgrade can save you serious energy dollars, year after year."
What does this tell us? It tells us that the heater-less models that just use waste heat from the 110 motor on high speed are too wasteful to pass the California energy standards. Leaving a pump on high speed for hours and hours is NOT an efficient way to heat the water!
Pumping water through a piece of red plastic DOES NOT HEAT THE WATER!
A 110 volt pump working hard at high speed DOES HEAT the water over time. Many low cost tubs use this method to heat, and they have no "HOT STICK!"
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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.
I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.
If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.
If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!
But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.
It does NOTHING!!
One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.
It does work - how else will the spa heat 1 1/2 degrees per hour and get up to 104. They stopped using the heat jacket on the pump so it definitely heated by friction. The ribs on the PVC fitting don't restrict the flow a lot, but that configuration does cost a lot to heat.
very simple: The heat of the motor is heating up the water passing through it at 1.5 degrees per hour or whatever.
If it were anything other than that it would be a HUGELY patentable breakthrough and would revolutionize the heating of water for many uses.
Again - just pull the stupid "stick" out and see what happens -- it still heats -- at the same rate!!
OK, I guess that's possible - have you pulled a stick out and tried that? I kind of find it hard to believe the pumps they use could thermally heat the water that much...but I defer to you on this one.
I should know this since we sell them.
Yes I have tried this and you should too. It is a very easy thing to prove\disprove. And, as such, I think it is quite telling that DreamMaker does not run such tests and publish their results.
If these things really worked that is what they would do, but since they are bogus no such testing or measurement is done. Where is the data that shows how much heat the silly stick gizmo adds over the heat added by the motor?
And if you know about the inflatable small hot tubs available from various manufacturers, you may know that all of those are 110 volt units that heat entirely via pump waste heat.
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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.
I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.
If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.
If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!
But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.
It does NOTHING!!
One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.
It does work - how else will the spa heat 1 1/2 degrees per hour and get up to 104. They stopped using the heat jacket on the pump so it definitely heated by friction. The ribs on the PVC fitting don't restrict the flow a lot, but that configuration does cost a lot to heat.
very simple: The heat of the motor is heating up the water passing through it at 1.5 degrees per hour or whatever.
If it were anything other than that it would be a HUGELY patentable breakthrough and would revolutionize the heating of water for many uses.
Again - just pull the stupid "stick" out and see what happens -- it still heats -- at the same rate!!
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I will not be dragged into an argument but the method of heating used by dreamaker involves putting a restriction in the water flow. This restriction causes the velocity of the water to decrease. This decrease of water velocity causes an increase in heat. This is required due to the conservation of energy with which the universe operates. This is where there "heat stick" terminology comes from. Granted it is a misleading term. A small part of the pump heat is also captured but it is mimnimal.
I can understand where you are coming from because you truly have no argument.
If the heat stick (which is nothing more than a piece of red plastic pipe inline with the pump) actually heated the water, it would be very easy to measure how much heat it adds: Compare the rate of heating to an identical setup with the heatstick removed. If it really worked, this easy test would prove it. If it really worked, DreamMaker would perform such tests and publish their results - which could be duplicated. This is how technology is developed - it must be something that can be demonstrated to actually work. Otherwise, it is likely just mythology or superstition or just plain stupidity or fraud.
If it really worked, and could be demonstrated to work, somebody would have patented it. This thing would be installed on every hot water heater in the world!
But the reality is that this is just a piece of red plastic pipe.
It does NOTHING!!
One more thing - 110 volt hot tubs without the heat stick also heat the water. How do you suppose that happens?? - The heat from the electric motor heats the water passing through it - very slowly and inefficiently. And, good luck using such a setup in really cold climates.
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Yes, running water through electric pumps will slowly heat the water but it IS NOT the friction! It is the heat from the pumps! Hot Stick "technology" is total bunk!
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A 220 model will actually use less power in the long run, in that the 110 volt model only uses the waste heat from the pump to heat the water - VERY SLOWLY, and requires the motor to be running and pumping water CONSTANTLY - this uses plenty of electricity. Having a 110 volt heater element to do the job is MUCH quicker and more efficient and will ALSO WORK IN COLD WEATHER. The so-called "Hot Stick" heater is total bunk. If there was a way to heat water by forcing it through a small opening, don't you think this technology would have revolutionized the water heater industry? Does your garden hose heat the water passing through it? No wonder they give a lifetime warranty on the Hot Stick - IT DOES NOTHING! (except violate the laws of physics)
Their hot tubs might be ok, but if they really think the Hot Stick gizmo is valid, then I question their judgement in general - which may have a bearing on the overall quality of their products.
Dreamamker Spa
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
I love it! You use Dreammaker's own propoganda to support their claim that their hot stick is a valid heater.
Heating the water through friction? Really?
If this hot stick is adding more heat than is added by the waste heat of the motor itself then how much? Why does Dreammaker not have and publish this valuable information? I know why - because it does not add anything and any testing they did would reflect this. It is fake. If it were not fake it would be patented, but it is not patented because the patent office would just laugh. If it were not fake it would be used elsewhere in other applications. It isn't. A device that could heat water by simply causing it to swirl in a vortex would be a HUGE energy discovery. Why have we not heard of it anywhere else? Because it is bunk.
Have you seen what this hot stick looks like? It is nothing more than a red plastic pvc threaded adaptor.
That's it.
If you really think this thing is adding heat then I want to sell you some magnets to put on the gas line of your car to improve your gas mileage. I also have some crystals to tape to your forehead to cure headaches, and some garlic to tie around your neck to prevent colds.
Yes these tubs don't have a heater to fail but they also don't have a heater to heat the water. And, because of that, they take hours and hours to heat the water in a very wasteful manner - running the pump on high speed to get it hot enough so that the water passing through it picks up some of that heat. Moving the water that way uses plenty of electricity for nothing useful even though some of the heat that is generated is captured to heat the water.
As was mentioned by someone else in this forum, if you capture the waste heat while running the pump normally, then that is great. However, if you are running the pump for hours on high speed ONLY to generate enough heat to warm up the water passing through it, you are WASTING electricty. It may mean the hot tub is cheaper and there is no heater to wear out, but it is nevertheless a wasteful way to heat the water, and is certainly shortening the life of the pump when it is run for hours on high speed. This is probably why this method of heating was rejected by the California standards.