polyvue
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Posts posted by polyvue
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Hey guys, first i'd like to say i've been a lurker for a few weeks and finally decided to register.
Do any of you guys (Pros or not) know where to buy a darn floating garden hose? These things were available back in the 90's, but i can't find them anywhere nowadays, and all my pool tech friends want to get their hands on one too for their leaf masters.
I've been told Anawalt Lumber/Hardware, but they don't carry it. Neither does Home Depot or even other big or small hardware stores. No pool supply stores that i've been in or called carry them, nor can they locate floating garden hoses.
Welcome to the forum.
Other than the rather pricey floating hoses used for automatic pool cleaners that have built-in floats, there are regular vacuum hoses (perhaps you could thread the garden hose inside one?), and a Floating Skimmer.... perhaps you could just do a search for floats and buy cheap ones to tie to the garden hose. Hopefully someone else here is familiar with Leaf Master and can pinpoint what you need.
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Also, do not use Dichlor for shocking unless you intentionally want to increase your CYA level. You would normally use bleach for shocking instead.
For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Dichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 9 ppm.
I used dichlor because I will be changing the water soon anyway and was not too concerned with having it rise too fast. I have heard mixed things about bleach. I have read yours and Nitro's info re: dichlor then bleach method which makes good sense to me. I have had some people at the local dealer tell me to use bleach initially to activate the nature2 cartridge. I have had others say never use any bleach because it is "too strong." My owner's manual says never to use any nonstabilized liquid chlorine product and that it would affect the warranty coverage for the spa. The manufacturer's customer rep says never to use any bleach (she did not know what sodium hypochlorite was) because it is not strong enough- actually said because it is 6% concentration that I would have to use "6 gallons" to get the FC to the proper level! I am so tired of the misinformation and misguidance in this industry. Would love to talk to someone directly in my area that actually understands the chemistry behind the methods (as you do) as I have a science background.
SIX gallons?! In a spa? Invite that customer rep over to sit in that concentration for a while!
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I took the filter apart and the grids are all broken inside. I have my repair guys sorting it out. its turned from a clean into a repair job.
It happens. At least you know now what you're dealing with!
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They did test for calcium and it was at zero. I didn't see anything in the test results about CYA though. Why do you ask? What effect does zero calcium have in my cloudy mess?
I'll put 2 jugs of 6% Clorox in tonight when I get home. BTW... Last night was the first time during this nightmare that the chlorine level actually held high (1.5 to 2.0) but I understand what you are saying and I'll hit it hard with the right stuff tonight. And yes, I'm using the cheap pool test kit with colors. This is when it really sucks to be color blind. lol But I get through it by judging the different "shades" on the test kit.
Thanks for the help.
The CYA (cyanuric acid) level that Paul references is important because of its relationship with chlorine's effectiveness at sanitizing and oxidizing (including destruction of algae). Check out this link -- it's a handy chart that will give you a sense of how much chlorine is needed to maintain sanitation levels and how much is needed to shock. If you're not measuring CYA then you really don't know how much chlorine is necessary. Some CYA is good; too much can defeat your best efforts in shocking or defeating algae.
Another useful table is one that shows recommended levels of chemistry for your type of pool. You'll note that some calcium is desirable even in a vinyl-sided pool, and much more if your pool is concrete/plaster or tile.
You mentioned color blindness - a remarkably common condition - and there is a chlorine test that will work for you: a FAS/DPD chlorine test. It starts off pink/red and when the right amount of drops are applied to the sample water, all color disappears. It's available separately and in better residential test kits, such as Taylor's K-2006.
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Based on the fact that my TA is 200 and is possibly causing the cloudy water, should I....
1) add acid to the water to bring the TA down to normal levels then add Sodium Tetraborate to bring my pH back up? If yes then what kind of acid do I use and how much?
OR
2) Bring my chlorine level sky high in hopes that it will clear the water up so the pool liner folks can get the measurements? If yes then what type of chlorine should I use?
My vote would be #1 using muriatic acid, run pump/filter 24/7 for a day or two, then make final adjustments to pH/TA and start on #2 using 6% bleach (unscented) or 12% liquid chlorine.
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Hello,
I've had 500g spa since mid Feb '10 using Nature2 + MPS + dichlor shock prn. Follow Nature2 directions w/MPS testing prior to tub use + 1 oz/person-hour use time on exiting. Have had some skin changes (but no other spa user has had this) which may or may not be related to the spa, so I decided to shock w/ dichlor. CYA previously tested approx. 70 by visual cloudiness test. Poolcalculator.com recommended 2 oz dichlor in order to shock to 20 ppm given CYA level. FC was 33 ppm 30 min after adding dichlor + circulation. 24h later, level dropped to 1.4 by FAS-DPD test. Pool store then tested water w/ FC @ 0.5 ppm and CYA at 41 ppm by pinpoint analysis system. Should I keep adding dichlor until I get a more normal FC degradation time (in case there is something in the water that should not be there)? Or, maybe I should just wash the filters, clean the spa and refill it. I am due for 4mo recommended water change in mid June. Thanks for your help.
If this was my spa and I was able to document a 30 PPM chlorine drop in 24 hours I would drain, clean the filters, decontaminate and refill.
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So now I think I need to do this: Find someone reputable to install equipment and work on this pool. I expect to buy a good chlorinator. I'll probably have to buy a new filter but am wondering if I can't just replace the internal filter assembly (manifold and all). My wife thinks that because the filter is so old (18 years) that it is not cost effective to replace only the internal filter because the outside would probably develop cracks anyway in a couple of years. I am also thinking about buying a new two speed pump to save electricity. There are several trees in my yard and the pool gets a lot of debris.
I have been doing research online in preparation for calling someone. But this time I want to be educated first so we don't get burned again. I would appreciate any advice or comments.
I don't know too much about DE filters but if I had a trashed filter that was 18 years old I would replace the entire unit. If you elect to do this you can choose cartridge, sand -- or stay with DE. Nearly everyone believes their filter is best so I wouldn't presume to tell you which to buy. I've been quite satistied with the (somewhat oversized) 425 sq ft cartridge filter I have. If your pool cleaner is run and the skimmer/pump baskets are emptied regularly cartridge filters are the most convenient. Mine is due for its annual cleaning (hosing off) but it has never accumulated debris to the point of increasing the pressure so, theoretically, I could probably let it go two seasons. Two speed pumps are now required in California and I wish I had one. Save quite a bit on electricity costs by running them longer at a lower speed/flow rate.
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So, I suppose what I'm asking is;
1) A step by Step approach to refilling a pool and chemicals to apply and the order of those chemicals; AND
2) A breakdown of the methodology of applying a said chemical eg-Sodium Bicarb sprinkled, dissolved?, pump on or off, duration of time, max amount to apply in a given day/ period?????
I have found info on summer pool start up or after winter etc but still not very clear????
PS; We would be superchlorinating with Dichlor granules and we also use Trichlor in the pool floatersas our main chlorine source.
Can others assist please.
All of those varied instructions to add Sodium Bicarbonate! I don't think there's a good reason to ever turn off the pump/filter while adding chemicals to a pool. What would this accomplish? Some chems (though prob. not baking soda) can cause a lot of damage if they're not circulated into the water upon application. Keep it simple! Turn the pump on, add the bicarbonate of soda however you wish and be sure it's incorporated into the water by brushing it, stirring it, whatever.
It's always good to wait a period of time (which varies for each pool) between additions of different compounds. My pool has a very fast turnover (3 hrs) so I get away with 15-20 minutes between additions. Larger pools or those with a low rate of circulation, no main drain and only one or two return jets should probably pump for 24 hours between applications.
Order of adding chemicals is just really not all that important. Under normal circumstances, adjust Total Alkalinity, then pH, then everything else (chlorine, calcium hardness, CYA and, if applicable, borates and salt). Take a couple of days, there's no rush.
But do take care to monitor your CYA level closely. Chlorinating with compounds such as TriChlor and Dichlor will rather quickly escalate cyanuric acid (CYA) content. If this were my pool I would pull out the TriChlor floater when the CYA reached 40-50 ppm and use 6% bleach or higher concentrated liquid chlorine on a daily (or twice weekly) basis.
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I concur with everything txpoolguy suggested... but I would upsize the filter for a 27K gallon pool to 525 sq ft. I have a 425 sq ft cartridge filter on my 14K gallon pool and it requires cleaning once a year, at most. Other suggestions that may annoy your contractor but help the flow rate: a.) minimum 2" ID PVC throughout but install 2.5" pipe on the suction side; b.) separate suction lines (not tied together until the equp pad) for main drain (if any) and each skimmer; c.) looped returns (equalize pressure of return jets by encircling the pool); d.) install a dedicated line for cleaner --- even if you're considering a suction skimmer-connected cleaner or robot (you may change your mind later & it will be very problematic to install then); e.) install a booster if you anticipate going with a pressure-side cleaner - they just work better; and f.) talk to contractor about installing long-sweep 90s in lieu of standard 90 degree elbows wherever possible.
And prior to contract signing, think and then think again about how much deck concrete you want (room for walkways, patio furniture, bbq etc). More is better and way, way cheaper than doing it later. Check out the equipment configuration in my signature, below. If you have questions about any of the equipment on my pool, post back.
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Thanks for your prompt response. I was careful with the acid strength, but after six cleanings, it just doesn't stay on longer than a couple hours. I called the representative for warranty. My water is good, volts good, everything is OK but the salt just falls off and then she goes into low salt cut out.
I will report back after I get a check from the technician.
Many thanks for your help.
Bob
It could very well be a faulty cell --- but 6 cleanings in one year is a LOT. I've had mine for 3 years and it's never required cleaning. When you state that your "water is good" it would be helpful to expand on that a bit. What is the typical pH, Calcium Hardness, Alkalinity, Free Chlorine and CYA in your pool? What is the salt reading reported by the PS-4 in the first couple of hours before it cuts out --- and when it does? Have you independently tested the actual Salt PPM in the pool water? And, if so, with test strips, drop tests, meter or via the pool store?
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I know that the pool supply store near me sells chlorine in the jugs that come in these yellow containers that hold I think 2 or 4 jugs per plastic container. I figure that chlorine must be like 10 or 15%, but I dont know what it costs. I have bought Clorox unscented bleach before and off-brand bleach from the grocery store (6%) and its cheap. So bang for the buck though do you usually get more from buying the stuff from the pool store or just buying cheap bleach at the grocery store? I dont know what each place charges, just curious what everyones experiences have been?
The more concentrated chlorine is much more sensitive to storage conditions than 6% bleach. I had a jug of 12% that probably lost half of its effectiveness from just a few months stored in my (hot) garage. If you're using liquid chlorine as the sole or primary sanitizing source for your pool, you may be able to save some money by buying larger sizes of highly concentrated chlorine. Find out what those 2-4 jug containers cost and do the math. Because I have a SWG cell and really only require liquid chlorine in the winter I've found it just makes more sense for me to buy a few jugs of 6% at the grocery store and then store them in the laundry room.
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Hi Guys I thought I'd share a few pics of a pool I'm renovating...
Waterline tiles have been installed and surface is being prep for Diamond Brite. Lots of work being done. only got 1 week left. will post more pics if you like when It's completed.
Please do. Great looking pool; it looks like all-tile on the floor. From the design I would guess this pool is in..... Indonesia? Thailand? Phillipines?
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Thanks chem geek for that link on Peak Boost, that was good information!!
My CYA seems to have gone down when I added some fresh water due to evaporation. Should I just hit it with some dichlor to get the CYA back up. I refilled about 6 weeks ago and have been using bleach for about 5 of them.
CYA shouldn't go down for this reason. If your testing shows that it has reduced a small amount that's likely due to testing variabliity. DiChlor is a convenient method to increase both CYA and chlorine. The alternative is cyanuric acid granules or liquid conditioner.
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Can the grids go bad on a 4 year old Pentair DE filter? They do not clean up during a normal BW,rinse,BW,rinse,BW,rinse cycle. If I take the filter apart after the BW rinse cycles the grids are still caked with debris. If I remove the grids, hose them off, reinstall them in order and reassemble the filter housing the R pressure comes down to 18psi. I have plenty of pump pressure, the valve appears to be switching fine. The pool stays clean, but again I cannot seem to get the grids clean during BW.
Its a salt water, 40K gallon pool and I have just recently had this problom. Yesterday I was looking at 30psi of R pressure so I BW for 3 mins, rinsed for 90 seconds and repeated 3 times but I never saw any dirty disscharge through the transparent waste water tube. The disscharge flow out of the waste water pipe was great but like I said the waste water was clear as a bell. the R pressure droped to 20PSI but I have yet to add any DE. I usually add about 8 cups of DE after BW.I just checked and I am approaching 30PSI of R pressure again. I bet if I pull the filter apart I will find stopped up grids! Again, pool water stays crystal clear. The mainfolds in the filter look OK. Any ideas
Check out this thread for a general overview and some tips and tricks pertaining to cleaning/maintaining a DE filter.
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Guys, the problem is not the polaris. THe problem is not enough pressure to no pressure to power the polaris. I do have a screen/filter on the polaris.
OK. Presume you know this at least in part because you've checked pressure at the pool cleaner return or by counting wheel revolutions. Is the flow from your eye-ball returns also impeded -- or just at the pool cleaner return? If the problem is at all returns, the next step would be to check flow after the pump/filter. If possible, try plugging some returns or partially shutting off water features, etc to see if you can increase the flow. If the problem is only at the pool cleaner return start by checking feed to booster pump (off the return line) and the flow out from the booster. Inspect flex lines here to ensure they're not crimped, leaking etc. Remaining component is the PVC cleaner line between booster and pool. A flow meter might aid your diagnosis.
Beyond this, one of the hydraulics/pump experts on this board may be able to provide more specific advice.
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I am going to purchase an inground swimming pool. I cannot decide if I want concrete or vinyl. I would love to hear feedback on both types. I live in southcentral Pennsylvania. We have hot summers and cold winters.
Winters are not as cold here in Sacramento; it seems that a super-majority of pool owners opt for poured concrete with fiberglass coming in a close second. Not too many vinyl pools here but I know they are favored back East. Not sure why -- perhaps they stand up better to all of that heaving during winter/spring thaws.
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I do have a booster pump installed and ready to go - -does that make a difference?
Having a booster means that you'll probably be a bit happier with the performance of whichever pressure-side cleaner you decide upon. Sorry, I don't have any information on robotic cleaners -- price is not where they shine, anyway. A 40 foot pool length is right at the point where a robotic cleaner starts to make sense; and yet, a booster-assisted pressure-side cleaner should still work just fine. ThePoolCleaner has already been mentioned. You should also consider the Polaris line: model 280, 380 or 3900 Sport ($550 - $900 new). I have the 280 and it is quite dependable in my 16'x29' pool. Check out this matrix of pool cleaners, complete with prices.
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I have a ps234 test kit. Pretty sure my results are good reading because the wife took a water sample late yesterday to the pool store (dont think she trusts me) and their reading were almost the same as mine. They told her something in pool was consuming the chlorine. Their advise was to add 3lbs of shock. And if cholorine does not come up in 24hrs to double the shock treatment. I'm still an newbie with the pool only second year but I think I've done ok. Let me ask you another question, Polyvue, what type of pool products do you use. I used pool life last year but switched to bioguard this year. Probally catch alot of crap over the chemical question. But thanks again for your help. Love the links dont think you can have to much info on pool care.
A few years ago, after doing a lot of reading in this forum, TFP and PoolForum, I elected to install a salt water chlorine generator (SWG), so that's what I use to chlorinate on a regular basis. Though I have in the past used TriChlor powder (Leslies' Genesis shock) my CYA levels were very low at the time, so I wasn't concerned about adding too much cyanuric acid in the pool.
If I didn't have a SWG I would use either 12% pool chlorine or 6% clorox unscented bleach or generic equivalent and check the chlorine levels at least twice a week. The SWG lets me test only once a week and only in the winter do I need to supplement its output with bleach. The only chemical I add nearly every week is muriatic acid (MA) 31.45% -- to keep the pH down to a reasonable level.
What else? Calcium chloride to increase CH (rarely needed). Bicarbonate of Soda ("Alk Increaser") to raise TA (rarely needed). 100% Cyanuric Acid granules (aka "stablizer" or "conditioner") to increase CYA. Only add this stuff when the CYA goes down below 40-50 ppm. Sodium Tetraborate (20 Mule Team Borax) to increase pH. I hardly ever need to raise pH.
There are pool owners on this forum and others whose seasonal (annual) cost for chemicals is less than $75-$100. It's hard to accomplish that with name brand chemical treatments. Besides the cost, practicing the so-called "BBB" protocol delivers an easier way to treat pool water.
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Sorry it took me so long to post back with the info I left off. tc .4. fc 0, cya 70, alkalinty 118.. ph was 8 today added ph down. Have not checked ph again since I added it today..
St Louis? (just noticing your username)
What type of test kit or meter do you use to get these measurements? If your pool has .4 PPM Total Chlorine and 0 PPM Free Chlorine, you have no active chlorine in your pool. This is precarious because it is the Free Chlorine that does almost all of the sanitizing and oxidizing and prevention (of algae and bacteria/viral growth). With a reading of 70 PPM Cyanuric Acid (CYA) you should have at least 5 PPM of Free Chlorine in the pool at all times. If you reduce CYA (over time via backwashing or splash-out-- or right away, by draining some pool water) the required level of Free Chlorine drops, and you'll have an easier time shocking the pool if the need presents itself.
The relationship between CYA and Chlorine is explored here. In addition to the links suggested in my last post, I recommend that you read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. It's not just for beginning pool owners... though its content may be a bit foreign to what you've learned from other sources. You're right, of course, to keep your pH down below 8. Reducing your alkalinity (TA) further should help stabilize the pH.
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Almost all Cl generators say that you should put a check valve in. Having said this, there are a few things that don't really warrant a check valve, but the manufacturer(s) say to install one (just to be safe) and it covers them. If your generator is wired correctly, the unit shuts off when the pump does, chlorine prodution stops and there isn't any more chlorine migrating from the cell, unlike an erosion feeder that never stops dissolving Cl. Also, your percent adjustment controls the amount of time that the unit runs, not the amount that is produced.
I don't have a check valve prior to my Goldline Aqua Cell but there is a 5 foot straight run between the heater and the cell. I think Goldline mentions this in their installation manual. That probably mitigates any chemical backup, however slight, back to the heater following shut-off.
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So I drained and refilled my hot tub. I do this every few months, never had a problem until now. The main reason I drained it was because the water had turned a little brown. When I refilled it I accidentally bypassed the heating element. The water was as clear as can be for the two days I had no heat. Once I figured out the heat was bypassed the water turned brown over night. What could cause this. I may have clipped a little too much chlorine into the tub when I refilled it, but I am not sure.
Did you determine why the water took on the brown color last time? In diagnosing problems such as these it's essential to know the current water chemistry. What are the present levels of pH, Free Chlorine (FC), Combined Chlorined (CC), Total Alkalinity (TA), Calcium Hardness (CH), Cyanuric Acid (CYA) and borates (if applicable)?
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Hi! I am buying a house with a pool and would like to know what the components are. There is something wrong with the pump, and I will have a pool inspector who will look at it. The pool is drained and looking ugly right now.
What is the Grey & Black pots? And I guess the pump & motor, and then the white box. Is the box a timer or just a fuse box? I plan to make a sun cover over the entire unit, since it is plastic materials.
Gas heater; Sand Filter; Jandy valve with split return below and to the left; the white box could be a controller or a subpanel, possibly with timer; Jandy valve (suction side) with joined pipes entering main circulation pump (it has a clear lid over the pump basket). Can't tell for sure from the photo but the two pipes adjacent to the downspout may lead to solar panels. 2nd photo: Dirty water -- However, judging from the photo, the deck, coping, tile and plaster look good.
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Ok had a inground spa installed at myhouse
specs 7x7
2" piping was used
2.5 hp jandy pump pump is only 5 feet away max
2hp blower
filter system
Eco smart heater
remote button start and change settings push button
I have 16 waterway jets with swivel heads
My problem I have no pressure with all this power I have no pressure and with my blower w/ pump on all I do is make a mess water flys out of the spa
it's no massage Ijust make a mess with blower off jets work better but it still not powerful I'm going crazy trying to figure this out any help
please !!!
You're employing a 2.5 HP single-speed pump to circulate/filter water for a 7x7' spa? That's way, way too much pump for this system. What type and size of filter do you use, and what is the PSI reading at the filter?
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Based on my latest tests from the pool store, by Stabilizer is at 100ppm. My understanding is that I should be around 50, maybe a bit higher since the pool receives direct FL sun for most of the afternoon. That said, I'm going for another test tomorrow, to see if we've dropped at all during the week. If not, I plan to drain some of the pool water and refill, to drop my CYA. Growing up with a sand filter, we would just backwash to drain. I have Pentair Cartridge filter on this pool and am not sure the most efficient way to drain the pool. I dont see any plumbed outlet in the established plumbing for draining the pool. Am I missing something?
Rain overflow and splash-out (from swimming) will reduce CYA and CH given time. If you want to reduce it quickly, see if there isn't a hose bib on the pressure side (return) piping on your equipment pad. You may be able to pump out some of the water by diverting water from skimmer(s) (which can suck in air causing your pump to lose prime) if there's a jandy valve that controls it, suctioning water only from the main drain. I use an inexpensive (< $100) submersible pump, available at home supply and hardware stores and a garden hose, turn off the pool's circulation system and pump 10-15 inches of pool water at a time to waste (yard, drainage, sewer, street, etc). Refill with multiple hoses to mid-tile and then turn the pool pump on to circulate.
1St Time Pool Owner
in All Swimming Pools Types
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There's not quite enough information to enable a good answer. How large is the pool in gallons or liters? Type of pool shell? (Gunite/plaster, tile, vinyl, fiberglass etc.)
I'm also a bit concerned that the measurements for chlorine and stabilizer (0.15 and 2015) don't seem to fit with what I know. What did the pool store use to determine these test results? It's much more helpful to discuss chlorine in terms of Free Chlorine (FC) and Combined Chlorine (CC) but I suspect that Total Chlorine (TC) is represented here. A Free Chlorine level of .2 (in parts per million (PPM) or mg/L) might be acceptable with zero stabilizer in an indoor pool that used supplemental methods of sanitizing, but that level of chlorine would be inadequate for most outdoor pools. What does the stabilizer consist of? If this is cyanuric acid (CYA) then a reading of 2015 PPM is very unlikely. There are a number of good threads that cover shocking a pool to kill algae. Here's one. Read through some of the threads in this forum that cover shocking and do post back with pool capacity if you need a more specific response.