dalehileman

"Your post seems to indicate that you never really knew what your cyanuric acid level was." Sorry Guru, I was using a strip system, notoriously inaccurate to be sure, that appeared over 100 although a sample taken to or friendly local Bill's Pool and Spa was declared "normal" "The easy way is to not add too much cyanuric acid in the first place." I have never deliberately added CYA although I'm advised that the continued use of tab as well as some forms of shock do increase it and that's one reason why I'm curious to learn what's considered the absolutely lowest FC level one may tolerate, in order to minimize requirements for maintaining it at the higher level of 1.0 to 3.0 usually recommended It had been suggested that part of my problem keeping FC concentration up might owe to excessive CYA after some 12 years exclusive use of tabs whereupon it was suggested I replace at least half the water So accordingly I replaced 2/3 which brought it below 100. But I still find it difficult to get "normal" FC readings without frequent use of shock. Instead it has been suggested I use bleach but my Better Half won't let me

Their being OT I was merely suggesting such matters might better be discussed via another medium such as email

bear, thank you for that But alas you seem angry Though not to be excessively OT I will discuss anything with anyone, am dalehileman@me.com and apparently don't care who knows it

With an in-ground of 35,000 gal, for about 12 years I had fairly successful results with a weekly dose of supermarket algi-clar simply using tabs as needed to provide FC. However when recently it became difficult to maintain FC it was suggested my CYA might be too high so I invested in a bottle of strips which although somewhat inconclusive appeared to confirm that possibility However we were told that the only practical way to reduce CYA was to replace the water. So we drained 2/3 of the pool, then replacing it with tap water, after which sure enough CYA had evidently dropped and I was able to easily achieve a reasonable FC level Maybe after 13 years it was about time. However I am wondering if there isn't an easier way. I remember vaguely from high-school chemistry that almost any base will neutralize almost any acid. So couldn't regular applications of soda ash reduce CYA Or is the problem that this approach might also increase pH to an excessive level Thanks all

txp thank you for these observations ......The dual timer system has been used very successfully for decades. Yes but it's of no value should the main pump lose prime. With my proposed system nearly any failure upstream of the filter would turn off the booster. Your second timer is of no use if the booster should go dry for almost any reason whatever then self-destruct Yes, the pressure switch could benefit, but you may end up spending more money for very little advantage. I hope to have a far superior system for about $12 Cleaner pumps are not "self-priming" pumps, as your main pump is. "Self'priming" is not meant to indicate that it will always prime itself...... Forgive me if I was not clear but I never said it would. In fact, even if it could, without additional protection such as I propose almost any upstream failure would deprive the booster of water so in the conventional system it would go dry anyhow .......You don't want to spend the money on a 2nd timer, so you you probably wouldn't spend an extra 200 on a different design of pump. I won't need to, if I can only find the right switch The repair you refer to could not have cost more than a few hundred bucks max About $100. However if the malfunction occurs once a year I would have spent $2000 over the period during which I hope to live ............I'd remind you that, in a free enterprise system, you're welcome to design and market a superior product and become a self-made billionaire. In fact I am an erstwhile writer and inventor but the time and cost today of finding a publisher for my book or a sponsor for my inventions might far exceed any returns so I offer the Pool Establishment my pressure-switch invention gratis, only hoping it gives me some kind of credit: "The Hileman Boost Protector" Most issues of failed equipment in our industry can be eliminated by 1. Proper installation, and 2. Good maintenance. Alas txp, the latter might entail you running out to your pool for inspection five times a day for 20 years Please don't blame the designer/engineer. Your statment of "I'm lazy and hope to minimize cost" points to the main reason that equipment fails - not just in your yard, but across the world. We all suffer from that flaw. Sorry if you happen to be one of them but I still consider the Pool Engineer grossly incompetent by comparison if he considers his second timer superior to my simple pressure switch The key is to understand that you're getting a good product, I'm not ..........and to maintain it per manufacturer's suggestions. This is all that any of us can do. Except me, I invent a better way There will be the cost of ownership and maintenance, but there is no product on the face of the earth that does not require regular maintenance and repair. Yes but one can minimize such needs by intelligent design of which the Pool Establishment is notably lacking Good luck Thank you txp. In spite of our disagreements I judge you must be a really fine fellow and I'd be most happy to discuss nearly anything being dalehileman@me.com

abcd

I don't agree with using a single pole switch on 240 volts. Quant I don't blame you and I advise all against it, especially if you bring in outside help as your contractor could electrocute himself. However I'm lazy and hope to minimize cost Even if the main pump failed, the booster pump would still draw water from its source. Thanks for the tip Cal and I understand the theory but you'd be taking an awful chance since there ae so many ways the main flow cold be interrupted or air introduced.. I'd think also for instance that if the main pump failed and the filter were badly clogged or its impeller put up quite a bit of resistance then even if continued flow were possible and the system were still airtight the obstructions might overload the booster Incidentally I wonder if this one--just $11.40--might work http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HE6DX...;pf_rd_i=507846 though actuating pressure is a little higher than I would like. However ads such as this are terrible by not supplying enough information: For instance this one doesn't even give load capacity nor does it specify whether NO or NC

"The switch closes at 2 psi and stays closed above that pressure. This switch would work for a pump wired for 120 volts that only needed to interrupt one leg of the supply. This could be put after the filter and should work fine." Thank you quant for that suggestion. It had never occurred to me connecting the switch at the output of the filter. However, have you actually tried this? I'm not sure it would work "fine" because the instant the booster comes on, wouldn't the pressure drop to zero or even to a slightly negative value, causing it to shut off. Thus the booster would be repeatedly switching itself off and on "For a 240 volt wired pump, you would need a double pole, single throw switch to interrupt both legs of the power supply." This is definitely the safest way to go. However in a 240-v system where both sides are above ground, a single-pole switch in just one side will work just fine. Of course for subsequent servicing you'd have to make sure to shut off the main breaker back in your house lest you electrocute yourself

Guys forgive me again for bubbling this back up but meanwhile in my vast ignorance about such matters I've encountered some more questions A. What's meant in some ads by "low-pressure cutoff" http://www.amazon.com/Square-FSG2J24M4CP-P.../ref=pd_cp_hi_1 B. Some ads give a range of pressure, eg, 40-60 psi. But I'm baffled by this as I had envisioned a pressure switch as closing at a preset value and remaining closed above that pressure, while opening when the pressure drops below it Incidentally I agree that a flow detector would be a superior way of addressing my requirement but a typical pressure switch costs as little as $12 so you can see why I stick with this proposal

I'm not sure i'm understanding this. Are you saying that there is currently no time clock for the booster pump, and that it always comes on with the filter? And you want to add a pressure switch to ensure there is pressure to have the pump run correctly (with enough water)? Clown You seem to have grasped my idea First, the booster pump needs a separate time clock. Yes as I agreed in an earlier post this might certainly help but i I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of main pump failure, which your timer doesn't address If your system is loosing prime when you have not opened the system (i.e. to empty pump basket), you have a problem that needs to be fixed. That is certainly the case. However many other exigencies could cause the main pump to draw air as I pointed out, eg, pool surface level falling below skimmer outlet, a break in the tubing leading to the pump, a long period of disuse where the water in this tubing has evaporated etc etc etc Adding a pressure switch only treats a problem, it's not solving it. Why not? The switch would permit the booster to come on only if the input pressure to the filter was high enough to ensure at least moderate flow into the booster. Of course we're in trouble if the tubing between the filter output and the booster input should rupture but that's pretty unlikely Also, keep in mind, a pressure switch does not know if the pressure is water, or air so that may not even address this problem but perhaps aggravate it. If it does have a switch, turn it off while you are servicing the filter pump. I do that of course and in fact the booster can't come on if the master switch is off but that doesn't eliminate every contingency, eg, during normal operation if the main pump were to quit owing to say loose wiring, with your scheme the booster would keep running. Furthermore I believe you are wrong about the switch being unable to distinguish air from water. If the main pump is delivering only air, its pressure would drop far below the 15-25 psi required to close my pressure switch ........ booster pump without a time clock is not only the wrong procedure, but costly as well (electrical use). Pool cleaners generally don't need to run nearly as long as the filter pump does, and should be controlled as such. As I pointed out above--with your scheme there are simply too many ways the booster could keep running even though the main pump goes off or draws air. Furthermore a separate timer for the booster pump might cost appreciably more than the switch After rereading the first post again, it sounds like that if the pool owner would periodically check his water level and fill as needed, this problem of the system running dry shouldn't even be happening. I have to be missing something here... I think if you reread the pertinent posts as well as the above you will see that is indeed the case. .......... I don't think i have ever been to a pool that doesn't have a time clock for the booster pump That doesn't make it the best solution by any means. If your confusion has arisen from a lack of clarity on my part I once again apologize whilst hoping that now you comprehend my position

ps of course you're right again, such a timer wold help only if you could be sure the main pump is drawing. That's what I meant though apologies if I wasn't clear Meantime I looked into spa pumps but the info given by the Amazon ads was of virtually no help whatever as you will see by my customer review in this link http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-Models-Press...6222&sr=8-4

The Forum participant frustrated over the maintenance of his plunge may be interested in the following exchange to which I was privy owing to a lapse in Internet software security But to summarize without requiring a busy Forum participant to read the entire exchange below can you help me out here: (1) Is my plan the usual way of handling the difficulty and (2) if it is, what would the unit be called besides just "pressure switch" and (3) could you recommend one, preferable carried by amazon.com. On Feb 9, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Elad wrote: As my Polaris booster pump is damaged if run dry for only a moment, entailing a massive repair bill, I'm wondering if you know of a pressure switch with a load capability of about 13 amps that would turn it on after the psi at the output of the main pump has reached, say, 15 to 20 psi. If you know who might carry such a device could you please send me some info about it—Thank you kindly—Elad On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:27 AM, Sien Glensker [Elad’s fellow pool owner] replied: Is it possible that the pump is running dry when the pool sweep accidentally moves up a wall surface high enough to get part of the head out of the water and thereby taking in air, which is causing your problem? Hi Sien: No, the Polaris operates under pressure from that auxiliary booster while intake to the main pump is derived from the skimmer port. However, when water level has fallen to near the bottom of this port some air is drawn in along with the water though it's hard to imagine the mixture could so damage the booster But after a period of system disuse (during extended maintenance for instance) the tubing leading from skimmer to main pump partially empties owing to the latter—incredibly--being situated at a higher level so that when the system is re-energized it is unable to draw water, blowing the system full of air I believe it can also be caused by failure to adequately tighten the cover of its input pump-basket vessel; air leakage here owing to a worn or damaged O-ring; a problem in some intermediate system such as an in-line chlorinator; if during maintenance you should happen to somehow energize the booster before the main pump…... Under these circumstances the only way to restore the system to operation is to prime it with a big bucketful of water poured into the vessel, then quickly closing the vessel, remembering of course the O-ring. While doing so remember also to hold down the right side of your mouth with your left index finger while farting to the tune of Auld Lang Syne Thus it's possible I had inadvertently left the booster on during one such episode causing it also to run dry with the consequent disaster I'll never get over in this day and age of aerospace exploration and miraculous new invention how primitive are our pool systems wherein the tiniest flaw causes disastrous, irreversible damage entailing exorbitantly expensive repairs while reinforcing the almost universal notion that the pool owner must be mostly wealthy while the “engineer” who provides us with such technology --since he cannot read a clock--after work is tapped on the shoulder by his secretary who must then lead him to the door when his wife now drives him home