cramp11

I have to clean my filter weekly which is a pain in the @ss, but I suck it up. Hose season... no problem. Blast it with the hose until it's clean. Voila Winter months... more of a pain. I bought a hand held shower head with multiple settings. One setting is a jet and that gets it clean. I tried the TPS and ended up with a bit of foam so I haven't used it since. Maybe I'll try again in the summer when I have a hose and can rinse it better. My filter soaks in a 2:1 solution of water:chemical after I spray it clean. I have 2 filters that I rotate.

I would 100% recommend emptying the tub and refilling it instead of trying to neutralize the peroxide. When I was having problems with my tub, I made it worse by mixing bleach and peroxide. In the end, decontamination was done, I refilled and haven't had a problem since. *knock on wood* As for peroxysan not needed anything else balanced (pH, TA, etc)... our dealer or peroxysan (I can't remember which) said that peroxide doesn't react to a high or low pH, TA, etc. Chlorine and Bromine do. If it's too low, something bad happens... if it's too high, some other bad thing happens. I sort of balance the pH and TA, but only test once in awhile with a crappy strip. As long as I keep my peroxide level over 100ppm... it seems ok. My tub was filled Nov 28/09.

I guess salty was a bad word of choice. I just know you're not supposed to use softened water in a hot tub and with the filter being soaked in softened water, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't causing a problem. (like my lesson learned by mixing bleach and peroxide ) I'm guessing the reading is 18 grains per gallon. I never asked. That's just the number they told us to set it at on the softener. I've never had a softener, but it seems to be working fine. No more white deposits around the taps, etc... My wife hasn't had a chance to hit the spa place. I only have test strips for my levels. pH : 7.0 TA : 80 Calcium : my strips don't tell us that... that'll come from the spa when she goes. The test strips we have suck. They seem to stay the same colour and just get more faded as the level gets lower instead of going from pink to orange. My coworker is trying to get hooked up with a Taylor kit from the States. I'm hoping I can get one too. Our dealer said that we don't need to balance anything with Peroxysan. It doesn't matter. I still would prefer to keep it balanced.

We did not fill the tub with water from the softener. We used the outside hose which bypasses the softener. Even my 'top ups' are no from the softener. I fill up 5 gallon pails with a tap that bypasses the softener. The only time softened water is used is when I clean the filter (in the shower) and soak it (in a pail). Our softened and unsoftened water doesn't take salty. I was referring to the softened water in my last post. Our untreated water hardness is 18. That's what we have the softener set at as per directions from the water test the company that sold us the softener. I'm starting to think that the softened water isn't the issue. I'll still get the calcium level tested. The pH and TA look fine, but I'm only using crappy strips. I'm sure they'll do a full test on the water and give us the results. Thanks for the input. I'll keep everyone posted on my findings...

I don't have a way to test the calcium level in the tub. I'll have to have my wife take a sample to the spa place near her work. If I need to add calcium, I'll get her to pickup whatever it is we need to add to raise the level. Our water doesn't taste salty at all. I just don't have access to my outside hoses that bypass the softener and the kitchen tap doesn't produce enough pressure to clean the filter. I guess I can start rinsing the filter in the kitchen before I put in back in the tub. (if that's the problem) The 2:1 solution of Peroxysan and water that the filter soaks in (I rotate 2 filters) is softened water. I might throw that solution out and make a new batch with non softened water. I just don't understand how that little bit of water left on the filter being put into 1100L of water could cause problems. I'm still learning though.

Just a little over a month and a half since we decontaminated our tub... We're noticing a bit of foam in the tub when we have the air jets on. We've never had foam... even when we had that white crud in the tub. The only thing different in the house is a water softener. I clean the filters weekly in the shower with a power jet hand held sprayer. Could this be causing the water to become salty (???) and cause foaming? When we need to top the hot tub up we do it with a tap that bypasses the softener. Not sure what else it could be. Oh... I did clean the filters once with TPS, but I rinsed and rinsed many times, but it was rinsed with softened water. Any thoughts would be great.

I bought a hand held shower head with a power sprayer option. Works pretty good considering the hose is packed away, but it's a bit awkward to use since you have to hold the filter in one hand the the shower head in the other. I tried TSP for cleaning my filter last time and for the first time in the tub, I noticed foam. I'm guessing I didn't rinse it well enough, but I sprayed the crap out of it. I change my filter weekly due to the chemical I use. The filter has never looked really dirty.

I was told to run the filter 2 times day for 4 hours, but since I'm using peroxide, I'm running it more. Peroxide directions say to run it 24/7, but I'm not doing that. I'm running mine 3 hrs 4 times a day for 12 hrs total. Also, if I know I'm not going to to use the tub, I put it on high for about 5 min with the jets on. Probably don't need to do that, but I figure it can't do any harm.

TSP worked great. I'll have to figure out how much water my filter container holds so I use the right amount. No point using too much. We've been adding 1 cup of Peroxysan every 4 days as per recommendation of the dealer. (no matter how often the tub is used or what the ppm level is at) We're also adding 1/2 a cup of 35% for every 2 people that get in the tub. So far it's only been my wife and I using the tub 2-3 times a week. We're also debating about shocking the tub with the 35% peroxide monthly. Not sure if that's necessary or not and if so, how much. I dumped in 15 cups last time when I thought there was new white stuff in the tub. (It was stuff from the filter I should have thrown out) Anywho... day 23 and still ok. My co-worker is renting/buying the same tub I have. They offered him Perosysan, but he went with Bromine. I'll be interested in comparing notes. I also told him to have the tub decontaminated before it's delivered.

^^ TSP is on my shopping list. ^ Sounds like you need to do a detox too. Crazy cold weather though. Yikes. I've cycled my filter twice now since I detox'd and haven't noticed anything. I think the stuff from the pics is just dead crap that was stuck on the old filter. That's not in my tub. It used to be though before the detox. I opened the tub today because I was home early (ie there was still daylight) to have a look in the tub. Looked crystal clear. I did notice white marks on the cover though so I sprayed them with a 5:1 mixture of 35% peroxide. The stuff fizzed I scrubbed the crap out of the cover and coated it with the spray. I hope the heck the lid isn't contaminated and just waiting to get back into the water. If the weather is somewhat decent this weekend, I might wipe the cover with bleach. I just have no idea how to rinse it since the hoses are packed away. I don't want bleach getting into the tub. (lesson learned re: neutralization) Anywho... bed time for the wee one... then the tub for me...

kevinjones.... any updates on what you decided to do?

Good info about eczema. The peroxide seems to be keeping it at bay. I haven't flared up in a long time. It's usually hockey that gets it going and I'm playing 3-4 times a week right now. Day 17 and still ok. *fingers crossed* I just read another post about cleaning filters and someone recommended TPS or Cascade with phosphates. Since I have to rotate my filter weekly, I'm going to give it a shot. I usually just blast it with the hose and soak it in a 2:1 solution. I'm going to try blasting it with the hose, soaking it in a phosphate solution, rinse it well and then soak it in the 2:1 solution. Learning something new everyday...

I can't wait to have a tub in the snow. That nasty storm the other week had too much wind. I think the cover would have blown down the street. So far I've only tubbed in the rain. I'm looking forward to snow and a tuc. (yeah I'm Canadian so I get it... ) H2O + CO2 → H2CO3 =

I'm not anti chlorine or bromine. When we bought the tub, they threw in a case of Peroxysan with the tub and I snagged a 5 gallon pail from someone right after we filled the tub. That's a lot of chemicals I didn't want to waste. We almost bought a hot tub years ago, but the dealer (another place) actually talked us out of it due to my eczema. It's not that bad, but he felt very strongly that the chemicals and heat would flare it up. We snagged a sauna instead (again, from somewhere else) I grew up with a sauna so I knew it was going to be fine. When you read about chemicals online, most sites say, "Chlorine for the pool, bromine for the hotub" I honestly didn't even know what we were getting when we bought the tub. I thought we were getting biguanide. So... we're sticking because we have it. If it fails again, we'll move on (unless they give us a new tub and restock our supplies) I am somewhat nervous about switching and finding out I react to chlorine or bromine badly. I never had good experiences in pools as a kid. Rashes, hives, etc... probably just not a balanced pool/tub, but I'd hate to find out after I do a fresh fill.

bart6453, great info. I'm beginning to believe that the stuff I found is dead. I put in a new filter last night and didn't find anything floating around in the filter solution this time. We haven't been able to use the tub the last couple of nights due to the weather. (winds are way too strong) I guess when you detox a tub, you need to let the filter go. I just can't get the stuff off. I stuck the filter in the garage on nail. I'll let it sit out there for the winter. Maybe the stuff will shrivel up and fall off by spring. If not, I'll pitch it. The tub has been crystal clear this week. *knock on wood* chem geek, I know peroxysan hasn't passed the EPA DIS/TSS-12. They say they do pass, but can't afford to pay for the test. (uh huh...) The diff they say is they have Peracetic acid in their solution which Wikipedia says, "Peracetic acid can be used as a cooling tower water disinfect where it prevents bio film formation and effectively controls Legionella bacteria." The Sani-Cleen was just peroxide and peracetic acid, but at really high levels. I think it would have melted my skin. Anywho... I'm just hoping to make it to the spring. I'm only two weeks into a fresh fill so it's too early to know anything yet.

I believe that some people asked me to keep them up to date on my tub. I'm sharing it and am asking questions about the product I'm using. I'm sure in the world people are using peroxide and/or peroxysan. Maybe they don't come on to boards like this for the obvious reason that no matter what, it gets bashed. Why can't you accept that fact that I'm using Peroxysan until I choose to go a different route? Seriously... why? Let it go already. You don't need to call me a weiner or say that I can't talk sense into my wife. This isn't her decision... it's our decision. My wife likes roses if you decide to visit the ICU. If it's me... bring beer. ------------- quantumchromodynamics, excellent info. Thank you very much. I think I've been a little too aggressive with it. Yikes. Peroxysan is only 27%. I can do the math for it. chem geek, Nature2 with MPS was something else we were reading about. I'm not what the MPS is, but a hockey buddy of mine uses Nature2 with chlorine in his pool. He seems to like it. Something we'll be considering down the road for sure.

So jumping in the tub at 1276ppm probably wouldn't have felt good eh? How did you come up with 278 ml = 100ppm? Is this based on my tub being 1100L? My wife and I have the debate about pouring in 1/4 cup per day vs 1 cup every 4 days. I personally don't see a difference, but 'they' want us to just add it every 4 days. Your thoughts? After 2 refills, I'm still wishing we used a spa flush. Seems to be the smart thing to do no matter what chemical you use. Just got out of the tub. I'll let you know how hockey goes later. I'm ready for a nap.

I just read through my recordings. My 400ppm level was after we emptied the tub and instantly saw white stuff in the tub. They had us dump tons of peroxysan in. Didn't do jack. My levels were probably 200ppm when I tried the chlorine so I guess the chlorine didn't do anything except neutralize everything and make some lovely gas. Oops. The active ingredient : Calcium hydrochlorite ... 65%. So my wife got some feedback today... "The stuff floating around is dead. If it were alive, it would cling to things." He also said to get new filters so we don't recontaminate the tub. (the filters were soaking in the solution they gave us overnight) A bit of a contradiction. It's all dead, but get a new filter because it's not dead. When we poured that solution in they gave us, the stuff went into a ball, turned white and floated right to the top. Not fluffy, semi-transparent kleenax looking things. Thought some of you might have found that funny. Anywho... I put 15 cups of 35% peroxide in the tub the other day. I couldn't even get an accurate reading on the strip. Bubbles everywhere in the tub. We'll use it again once it's down to 200ppm again. At this rate, I'll be out of peroxide soon. On a good note... snow last night. no wind... wicked hot tub experience. (since I'm a noob)

"you would need about 2.08 ppm of chlorine per 1 ppm of hydrogen peroxide to end up with a zero balance for each" was in another thread. I bought a 1Kg bottle of Aquaruis Shock 2. Superchlorinate a 10,000L pool with 150g. I didn't weigh what I used, but the bottle is almost half gone so 400g to 500g was used. My tub is 1100L. Whatever peroxide was in the tub should have been neutralized with plenty of chlorine left. I added it in two stages. The initial pour foamed and made a gas (which was expected). When I added more, nothing happened. If the chlorine level was zero, why did the test strip go really dark instead of just staying white like it does when I just have peroxide in the tub? I'm not trying to start an argument... I'm just trying to understand why this stuff won't die. My wife is sending the pics to the company today to ask what to do now. We used the tub last night and didn't see anything in the tub. Edit : Here's a video... (Please don't comment on youtube since we're sending this to the company)

Thanks Dan... I am enjoying the sauna. Def a hell of lot easier/ It's been a week and we think we noticed a few things floating around the first day after their remedy. Thought maybe it was dead crap floating around... we just went with it. We had 3 ppl in the tub all week. (me twice, my wife once) I changed the filter after the first week and this is floating around in the 2:1 mix of Peroxysan and water the filter was soaking in AFTER a blasted rinse. I'm pretty sure this stuff is not dead. So Peroxide/Peroxyacetic didn't kill this stuff and chlorine didn't kill this stuff... jolly...

^ what he said. My tub was a second so who knows how long it was lying around after being tested. I've had my tub 100 days and am on day 6 of a fresh start. If things go bad now... I'll know it's user error, chemical choice ( ), etc... I don't know if the Nitro's decom method would be an overkill, but you'd sure know that you're starting with a perfectly clean tub. Good luck

No worries and no hard feelings. Who knows... in a month I may be posting that it's back, but I'm going to go in positive and hope for the best. I have so much peroxide and peroxysan right now since they gave me another 8L on top of what I had already. Cost is nothing. Time, frustration, etc... I'll chalk it up as life experience. Sometimes you have to fail before you can succed. It's cold this morning and I was out scrubbing the cover with a soft brush. The water keeps freezing. I think I'll wait until the sun comes around the house and it again this afternoon. I can't see how the heck anyone could change water in the winter no matter what chemical is used. Yikes! Anywho... after hockey, I empty the tub, wipe it down, fill it up to rinse, empty again and then fill 'er up for use. Fingers crossed. It was def amazing to watch this chemical do its thing. When we poured it in, the fluffy stuff instantly went into a ball, turned really white and floated to the top. The only good thing about all of this... having no tub made me use the sauna for the first time since we got the tub. I missed it.

"unless a thorough high oxidation cleaning is done" Would that stuff I listed above be considered that? We got it for free (thus wanting to give it shot), but it's only $50 a treatment. I'd be willing to do that once a year. Spa Purge on roids. This stuff smells horrible though. I will def keep everyone posted. I'm not on this site to cause problems. I'm here to share what I've been through. If this ends up working for us, great... if not, I'll have full documentation of whole process. We're going to do everything exactly how they want us too. Hopefully if people like Kevin come to the site, there will be more experiences to review. Cheers.

After doing our own research, we're sticking with Peroxide. I never said that I was going to switch. I just wanted to research my options. I like keeping an open mind and not be bullied into making a choice. My reason for this post was about killing the stuff and saving the water. That wasn't an option. So the decomtamition reading began. Looks great, but the method we chose was Sani-Cleen (23% peroxide and 4.3% Peroxyacetic acid) It's doing it's thing right now. Thanks, Cramp

Hey Kevin, I use peroxysan as well. You can look at my posts for my adventure. I ended up with "white mold" a few months into having my tub. I poured a ton of chlorine in the tub to kill it, emptied it and refilled it. It came back in 2 weeks. I actually was back as soon as I turned the air jets on. Obviously I never cleaned it properly. My dealer advised me to add 6L of Peroxysan and it would be gone. That didn't work. They apologized and replaced the Peroxysan I wasted. I worked with my dealer and the Peroxysan people. We're in the middle of shocking the tub with Sani-Cleen which was supplied by Peroxysan. It's 23% peroxide and 4.3% Poeroxacetic acid. To say the least, when I poured the jug in, the white stuff that was in the tub instantly floated to the top. I've circulated the jets on/off a few times today. I'm to leave it overnight and then drain it. If I still have white mold, the dealer is going to come and get my tub and replace it with another one. This board is great, but it's very anti anything that isn't the bleach method. I say give'r. My dealer and peroxysan have stood behind me. Do some reading on white mold. It can happend with ANY chemical. It's enviromental. Things we could have screwed up that may have caused it... 1. We didn't change filter weekly as required 2. We closed a bunch of the jets (I still don't know why we did that) 3. We filled from the hose without running it first. Our hose sits in the sun all day 4. We got lazy and didn't add Peroxysan as per directed (2 cups a week) I'm sure there will 100 replies now saying that I'm satan, but I'm ok with that. Do your own research and do what you want to do.