quantumchromodynamics
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Posts posted by quantumchromodynamics
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What kind of a chlorinator do you have? If it is a trichlor feeder, is best to remove the tabs from the feeder because the tabs will continue to dissolve and the concentration will become dangerously high. Do not put wet tabs back in the bucket.
Once tabs get wet they continue to dissolve and are dangerous. About 30 minutes before opening a trichlor feeder, you need to turn the feeder to full to allow any concentrated chlorine to be flushed out; otherwise, you could get chlorine gassed.
You also need to get a real test kit that will test for free chlorine, combined chlorine, total chlorine, pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness and cyanuric acid. The strips are not going to give you enough information to avoid the kinds of problems that you are experiencing.
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I recommend that you begin to take the necessary steps to reduce your calcium levels to below 270 ppm. The easiest step would be to use softened water as fill from now on.
Having your salt cell before the heater is not a good idea. The chlorine going through the metal heat exchanger will corrode the metal. If possible, you should run them in parallel to avoid conflict.
There is also a small risk of hydrogen accumulating in the heater and causing problems. The salt cell generates hydrogen gas that usually harmlessly comes out of your returns and into the atmosphere. It is best to avoid any pockets where hydrogen could accumulate. Especially anywhere that contains fire, like a heater.
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More advice:
Heat pumps are much slower than Natural Gas Heaters. If heating speed is an important issue, then you should consider a natural gas heater if you have natural gas available. Be sure to specify the corrosion resistant heat exchanger, either cupro-nickel or titanium.
I think that the best type of filter to go with is a high capacity DE filter.
I think that you should also go with a corrosion resistant steel rebar in the concrete, such as mmfx steel as shown here:
http://www.mmfx.com/prod_steel.shtml
I don't think that epoxy coated rebar is a good choice for corrosion resistant rebar. Epoxy is good in theory, but in the real world, cuts and scratches in the coating create corrosion focus points.
For any concrete decking, be sure to specify full rebar throughout the entire deck. This is critical for strength and for electrical bonding. Without full rebar or wire mesh, you run the risk of stray currents causing you to feel small amounts of electrical current when you touch the water.
If you have young children, I recommend that you include a pool alarm. The type that senses subsurface waves is more reliable and has fewer false alarms. Get one that comes with a wireless remote.
I recommend against floor returns. Some builders like them. Part of the argument for them is a supposed benefit of better efficiency of the heating system due to introducing the water lower in the pool. I don't think the benefit is significant at all. To achieve the same thing, you could just put 90-degree elbows at the wall returns to direct the water downward. Floor returns tend to cause metal staining around the returns.
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I recommend that you retain a geotechnical engineer to do a complete geotechnical engineering study to evaluate your situation and advise you on all aspects of the project.
The geotechnical engineering study should include a core sample to provide an assessment of the soil conditions and determine whether or not any type of structural piers will be needed. Piers, or piles, can be installed in several different ways, such as being driven in, augured in or by drilling a hole and filling it with concrete.
My recommendation for a concrete pool is for the concrete thickness to be 12 to 14 inches thick, the rebar to be 7/8- inch in diameter on 9 inch centers and the strength of the concrete to be 7,000 psi, or higher. Anything less has an unacceptable risk of structural cracks developing within 10 years.
Have the two main drains plumbed together with 2-inch PVC pipe and then run a single 2.5 or 3.0-inch PVC pipe all the way to the pump. Do not connect to the skimmer. I am sure that the code does not require that the drain be run to the skimmer. If the builder insists, have them show you the exact code that they are referring to.
My recommendation is to have 4 skimmers with each having its own 2.5-inch line going all of the way to the pump with a 2.0" Jandy "Never-Lube" valve for each line. With four skimmers, you will get increased surface cleaning and less chance of your skimmer baskets becoming overloaded. The skimmers should have (2) 2.0-inch threaded holes at the bottom, use the back hole for suction and use the front hole as an equalizer.
You should have a 2.0 H.P pump. The 2.0 h.p pump should have a 2.5" intake. You should have 3 separate 2.0" return lines going from the output of the filter back to the pool and entering the pool as wall returns, not floor returns. The wall returns should have threaded fittings so that they can be plugged, if necessary.
The big advantage of having multiple lines comes if you have a leak in the plumbing. If you have a leak, you can simply plug the affected line and continue filtering uninterrupted, and deal with the leak at your leisure.
For the separate pump for waterfall/slide with 2 intakes in pool, what will be the horsepower? If it will be more than 1.0 H.P, use (2) 12-inch x 12-inch main drains. I don't think that you need vacuum arresters on anything as long as you have multiple drains with the proper separation and proper covers.
The Polaris pulls water from the return line after the filter and not from the pool directly. No need for a vacuum arrest.
I recommend against ozone. It does not provide any benefit. It actually destroys chlorine. It will also cause metals to stain your white plaster.
I recommend against minerals. They will stain your plaster and they do not eliminate the need for chlorine.
Chlorine tabs cannot be used for more than about 10 to 30 % of your chlorine needs. Any more and your stabilizer levels will get too high. If you use the trichlor tabs, you have to use another source of chlorine to provide the rest of the chlorine needed. Liquid chlorine is the best.
Salt generators work well and are very convenient. However, the salt water is more likely to cause plaster and metal corrosion. A plaster pool requires that the Calcium Saturation Index not go negative, or the life of the plaster will be significantly reduced. However, a salt generator requires a slightly negative index for optimal performance. They can go together, but there is a compromise.
My recommendation for your sanitizer is chlorine to be supplied by liquid chlorine or bleach.
I recommend against the mesh cover. The mesh allows sunlight, rain and dirt to get into the pool. If you go with the mesh, you need to keep your pump and filter running and periodically vacuum the pool and adjust the chemicals. If not, the pool will get dirty, stained and full of algae.
The solid cover is much better; it blocks the sunlight, rain and dirt. The solid cover comes standard with a center micro-mesh drain panel to allow the rainwater to go through while filtering out the larger dirt and debris.
I prefer to specify No drain panel, and instead use an automatic cover pump to pump off the water as needed. I recommend the Little Giant Model Number: 5-APCP as shown here:
http://www.lgpc.com/Product/ItemDetail.aspx?ProductID=932
You should contact your local water softener company about dealing with the minerals in the water. They can rent you a set of water softeners to use while you fill your pool. Have your water tested for iron, copper, manganese and calcium.
I like the Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump as shown here:
http://www.haywardnet.com/inground/product...ers/HeatPro.cfm
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Some pool stores try to scare you with terms like "extremely high phosphate levels" so that they can sell you lots of expensive treatment chemicals. Phosphate remover should be avoided unless there is a very good and specific reason to use it.
Some pool stores are full of excess lie. The pool store employees add the excess lie to stabilize their profit margins. Without the excess lie, their profit margins would rapidly deteriorate. Unfortunately, the excess lie causes your Visa Debt and frustration levels to skyrocket.
By the way, what were you told that your phosphate level was?
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As well as making sure that your plumbing is sized correctly, you also need to be sure that the electrical supply is sufficient.
Undersized or minimum sized wires will also cost you in efficiency. Like plumbing, over-sizing wiring costs a little more initially, but pays off in the long run. Whenever possible always go 230 volts.
Be sure to include extra electrical conduits from the power supply to the equipment area to allow for the addition of extra equipment at a later time.
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Tell me about your budget, and what you want for a pool.
I recommend that you retain a geotechnical engineer to do a complete geotechnical engineering study to evaluate your situation and advise you on all aspects of the project including a design for proper water management strategy.
If possible, have the pool built as high as reasonably possible to reduce the water table issue. Make sure that the well points are left available for use when the pool has to be drained again.
For a vinyl liner, avoid steel walls or anything that would rust or otherwise be affected by water.
For a concrete pool, be sure to increase the concrete thickness, rebar diameter and concrete strength rating. I would recommend 12 to 14 inches thick, 7/8- inch rebar and 7,000 psi or higher rated strength concrete.
Make sure that there is sufficient hydrostatic relief valve capacity.
Have the geotechnical engineering study include an assessment the soil conditions and determine whether or not any type of structural piers will be needed. Piers, or piles, can be installed in several different ways, such as being driven in, augured in or by drilling a hole and filling it with concrete.
Make sure that any concrete decking contains rebar and wire mesh throughout.
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If you can provide a full set of chemical reading, we can better assist you.
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http://www.pleatco.com/index-2B.html
What is the procedure to clean my filter cartridge?
1) Remove the cartridge from the filter housing following the manufacturer’s instructions
2) Use a garden hose with a straight flow nozzle to wash down the filter element. Work from the top down, holding the nozzle at a 45 degree angle, and wash all the pleats with emphasis between the pleats.
3) Rinse until all dirt and debris is gone
4) For all spa cartridges and elements used in swimming pools where perspiration, suntan lotions, and other oils are present, soak the element for at least one hour (overnight is most effective) in:
A. a commercial filter cleaner, or,
B. one cup tri sodium phosphate (TSP) to five gallons of water
C. one cup dishwasher detergent to five gallons of water.
5) Rinse the cartridge again to remove oils and cleaning solution.
6) If the filter has a coating of algae, calcium carbonate (residue from calcium hypochlorite), iron, or other minerals, soak the cartridge in a solution of one part muriatic acid to twenty parts water until all bubbling stops.
7) Rinse the filter cartridge clean and reassemble housing.
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Start keeping your pH at about 7.3. This will cause your alkalinity to start to drop to the 75 that Richard mentioned. You can also add a stain and scale control chemical to help prevent the scale.
1) How did your calcium hardness get so high?
2) Is your heater before the salt cell?
3) Does the flaking increase when the heater is on?
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To build any pool under those conditions, the local water table has to be pumped out until the pool is completed and full of water. It's a manageable thing if the builder knows what they are doing.
The builder will have to put well points and pumps in the area to pump out the water and keep them running until the water in the pool is higher than the normal water table.
An empty fiberglass or Gunite pool will float if the water table is high enough.
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Plaster is a mixture of white cement and an aggregate, such as marble or quartz.
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What was the chemical in the "shock"? If it was calcium hypochlorite, then you received very bad advice from that pool store employee.
Calcium must never be put in the pool on the same day as pH increaser. The calcium combines with the carbonates and hydroxides to form calcium carbonate and calcium hydroxide.
If you can provide a full set of chemical reading, we can better assist you.
Pool stores are full of excess lie. The excess lie causes your Visa Debt and frustration levels to skyrocket.
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Nitro, what would the purpose of a neutral SI be for a tub that does not contain plaster or grout? Is there a significant detriment or risk to materials like fiberglass?
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I have had the same problem.
Cut the weir to size by cutting equal amounts off each side. Then use PVC glue to glue a thin strip of flat PVC to the sides of the weir. Make sure that you allow for the thickness of the PVC strip. You can get sheet PVC at a specialty plastics place. Just look under "Plastics" in the phone book.
Your skimmer will probably crack at some point due to the stress. It is not very strong at all. You can patch it with PC-11 Marine Epoxy. Patch when dry, not underwater.
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Get a 2-inch hose. A 2-inch hose has 1.78 times more volume capacity than a 1.5-inch hose.
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If the blower goes out, the heater will shut down. Sooting is caused by incomplete combustion of the fuel. The heater flame should be a clean blue with no orange or red. Orange or red indicates incomplete combustion.
Anytime you have cracks in a pressurized piece of equipment, like the filter, it is best to replace it.
mah48092, it doesn't make any sense for your heater not to have a thermostat. How does it know when to turn on and off? It would be extremely irresponsible for a service technician to remove your thermostat.
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What size is your pump?
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If
pH = 7.5
Alkalinity = 100 ppm
Calcium = 150 ppm
Temperature = 104 F
then your water is almost perfectly balanced based on the Saturation Index. If your hot tub is plaster, has grout or other such material that requires a near 0 saturation index, then that's fine.
Some tub manufacturers recommend specific calcium levels for longevity of the tub surfaces and elements. You should follow their recommendations.
However, the water in the heater is substantially hotter than the general ambient water temperature. This can lead to scaling of the heater element, and that can cause premature failure because the scale acts like an insulator trapping the heat and overheating the element.
I like to provide a little bit of a negative index to protect the heater from scaling.
Remember the rule that calcium needs to lose heat to dissolve and gain heat to precipitate. The heater provides the heat that causes the calcium carbonate to precipitate and form scale.
I think that going with a 100 ppm calcium is the best level. I don't think that going up to 150 will give you any better performance or results.
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I like the Pentair Mastertemp. It's quieter than the Sta-Rite shown in the video. I prefer a heater that has a forced air design. They are much more reliable in higher wind areas. Without forced air, the flames can be pushed backwards and burn up your heater. This is especially a problem when the heater is near a structure where air can hit the structure wall and be diverted downwards onto the heater. Get the cupro-nickel heat exchanger for corrosion resistance, especially since you have a salt-water pool.
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The first time I used dichlor, they failed to tell me it could eliminate chlorine levels in my pool, I just wanted to know if hypo will have any effect on chlorine or ph.
Thanks
What do you mean that the dichlor eliminated chlorine levels in your pool? Dichlor adds chlorine, it doesn't eliminate it.
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The main drain line is a suction line. It is not a pressure line like a return line. The only "pressure" on it comes from the static pressure exerted by the depth of the water when the line is not being used. The pressure increases by 1 psi for every 2.31 feet of water depth.
When the line is being used, the pump pulls a vacuum to create suction. Technically, there really is no such thing as suction or a vacuum. Suction or vacuum is just a pressure lower than ambient pressure.
Therefore, the pump really doesn't pull water. The water is pushed by the ambient atmospheric pressure when you lower the pressure in the suction line to lower than atmospheric. That's why it would be impossible for a pump to "pull" water up higher than 33.9 feet (2.31 x 14.7).
The water would begin to convert into a gas if the pressure were to go lower than -14.3 psi. This is what causes cavitation. The water actually "boils". The bubbles are not air; they are steam. The water undergoes a phase change to a vapor (gas).
If you arbitrarily assign the ambient atmospheric pressure a value of 0, then anything less would be considered suction or vacuum and can be referred to as negative pressure.
Since the ambient atmospheric pressure at sea level is about 14.7 psi (29.92 inches of mercury), the maximum vacuum pressure that can be created is -14.7 psi.
Pressure or vacuum can be measure in many different units, such as inches of mercury (Hg), inches of water column, pounds per square inch, atmospheres, kilopascals etc. They are all interconvertable.
Some vacuum gauges are typically marked in units of inches of mercury, but they could just as easily be marked in units of pounds per square inch.
1 pound per square inch = 2.03625437 inches of mercury
1 inch of mercury = 1.13 feet of head
The suction head is created by static and dynamic forces. The static head is created by the height of the suction inlet above the surface of the water being "sucked" in, and the dynamic head is created by the amount of resistance caused by the water flowing through the pipe.
In most cases, the inlet of the pump is not more than 3 feet above the surface of the water and the static suction head is offset by the static drop of the water returning to the pool. For properly sized suction plumbing, the dynamic suction head should not exceed 4 psi or 9.24 feet of head.
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Generally, you want to add 50 to 75% of the calculated amount and then retest before adding more to make sure that you don't overdo it.
Be careful about adding too much calcium because it can form an insulating scale coating on the heater element and cause the element to overheat. I would not exceed 100 ppm unless there is plaster or grout that you need to protect.
Be sure to dissolve the calcium chloride in water in a clean plastic bucket before adding it to the hot tub. Never add more than 4 to 6 ounces per gallon of water because when the calcium dissolves it generates heat.
I would also advise that you use a higher purity than the 77% calcium chloride. Look for something that has in excess of 90% calcium chloride.
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As I noted, adjusting the pressure switch and/or adding a valve were not the best ideas.
If the return line is properly sized, there is a second pump pulling water from the return and the pump strainer basket, skimmer baskets and filter are partially dirty, reducing flow rate, there may not be enough pressure to close the pressure switch even though there is sufficient flow through the heater.
In that case, the installation of a flow switch that would be set to the minimum recommended flow rate of the heater is advisable.
Sometimes it is just a case of cleaning the skimmer and pump baskets and the filter, but they should not need to be immaculate for the heater to function properly.
You can add a vacuum gauge before the pump and a pressure gauge after the filter and before the heater to monitor those metrics. You can also add a flow meter after the heater to see what your actual flow rate is.
To add a pressure or vacuum gauge you can drill and tap a 1/4 inch pipe threaded hole directly into the PVC. Drill a 7/16 hole in the PVC and then use a 1/4 inch pipe thread tap to cut in the threads.
New Pool Advice...
in All Swimming Pools Types
Posted
To the best of my understanding, according to the VIRGINIA GRAEME BAKER POOL AND SPA SAFETY ACT (PUBLIC LAW 110-140), the primary requirement for private residential pools is that the drain cover be ASME/ANSI A112.19.8-2007 certified.
The other requirements are primarily applicable to public pools.
However, it is my opinion that it is the best interest of the pool professional and the residential pool owner to always use at least two separate mains drains that are at least 3 feet apart to minimize the risk of entrapment.
Furthermore, I would recommend that main drains be limited to 0.42 gallons per minute per square inch of the main drain. For example, a 12-inch x 12-inch main drain would be 144 square inches. Therefore, 144 x 0.42 = 60.48 gpm.
Other city and/or state laws and codes may apply and should be strictly adhered to.