OttawaGreg

Here is my plan for November, once I dump the current water and refill. Thanks for all your help and suggestions. I still have a few questions though. I just bought a Nature2 Spa Clarifier from Zodiac. The SPA pro convinced me to give it a try. It lasts 4 months and is supposed to reduce your consumptions of oxidizer & sanitizer dramatically. www.zpc.ca. This will change slightly my method going forward. You place it inside your filter, I am thinking it acts like a Brita filter of sorts. It has these requirements: 1. Initial super-oxidation with sodium dichlor is required to burn off contaminants and activate Nature2 Spa. (this is in-line with Nitro's Dichlor then bleach method). 2. After each tub use add MPS as needed. (OK, just what is MPS? I mean, as in what product is this?) 3. As needed, shock with 1.5 tablespoons of sodium dichlor p/1000 litres. As an alternative to MPS, sodium dichlor can be used. I do not have dichlor. I have Trichloro & Lithium-Hypo. I looked at the SpaGuard product line and they have a "Stabilized Chlorinates Granules" product with near neutral pH. I am guessing then this is dichlor and will get this. 1. Dump tub - refill - superoxidate (chlorinate) with dichlor. 2. Balance water 3. Install Nature2 Spa Clarifier 4. ? Question Time ? - which sanitizer / oxidizer do I use for daily maintenance? a) If I go with Clorox bleach then my pH will drift up as it's pH=13. I can then use Muriac Acid to lower pH or pH-down or even Lo-N-Slow. Whichever has the least effect on T.D.S. I could even switch back and forth (sanitizer) with Trichloro as it will lower the pH as it's pH=3. I mean put the floater back in the tub with tabs for a few days to sanitize and lower pH instead of Clorox. If the Nature2 does it's job as advertised I just use very small amounts of Lithium or dichlor every few days. c) If my pH (for some reason) is very low I use Borax to raise it with little effect on TA. I should probably email the Zodiaz (Nature2) folks and ask them if their product will work with Clorox bleach as the sanitizer. Any thought on this plan? (before I actually try it :-) Greg

All, The SpaGuard Chlorinated Concentrate is Lithium Hypochlorite 29% The SpaGuard Smart Tabs are Trichloro-S-Triazinetrione 97% Are either of these Dichlor? I got a sample tested tonight and here are my readings; TDS - 1700 Tot San. - 2 Free San. - 2 pH 7.0 T.A. - 90 C.H - 140 So the T.D.S is high but I've seen it at worse. I just used it tonight and found very little to no odor. There is a bit of foaming but that appears to lessen the closer I get my pH to ideal. The SPA specialist who tested my water said 3 months is the usual max and I need to drain it. So, Should I dump the tabs & concentrate and go with bleach? Will this stretch my refills by adding less to the TDS? If so what kind of guide is there for the quantity of bleach to add? thanks, Greg

Richard, I've been thinking about moving to Dichlor then Bleach but have no idea how much Bleach liquid to add. Are we talking about 30->60 ML for an average dose and 300 ML for a shock? Or are the quantities larger? My tub is 280 gallons - 1050 litres. The other thing with the Dichlor/Bleach method is I use a floater with tabs, does that go away and I need to do daily (or more regular) doses of Bleach? When I leave for a long weekend I just top up the tabs and go, what do I do then with Bleach? To answer your question, yes, just Spaguard so Dichlor as my sole sanitizer. I will be getting a water sample tested by the pro's tonight and report back the numbers here for record. I am sure I know what they will say, dump and re-fill, but I am curious where I am at. Also about the CYA number as you mention. Greg

I'm trying to stretch my water another month before dumping and refilling. I've had it only 3 months but we use the tub allot. The water is balanced but I'm getting the foaming, which I believe is the sign that TDS is high. I really should bring a sample in and get it checked. My test strips don't measure TDS of course... Anyhow, I'm looking at these oxidizer products and their descriptions and wondering if they could help. Do they really do what they claim or just mask the problem and all the while add to my TDS? Anybody with experience? Here is a link to the Spaguard products that I use and their Oxidizer selection. http://www.biolabinternational.com/bioguar...rd/oxidizer.htm thanks, Greg

I use ; AQUACHEK TRUTEST DIGITAL TEST STRIP READER Which is just a digital reading of a test strip. Spaguard chlorine concentrate as a sanitizer and the other Spaguard chemicals for balancing. I just recently used muriac acid and Borax to balance instead of the Spaguard products and noticed a change in odor. It's not that strong an odor, but noticeable.

AN UPDATE: I used muriatic acid to lower both TA & pH instead of Lo N Slo. It did the trick. TA = 110 pH=6.2 Next I slowly use Borax to raise the pH. 30g takes it from ph=6.2 to 6.4. TA=119 Next day 60g Borax and pH=6.7 TA=122 I will keep using Borax to raise the pH as it appears to have little to no effect on TA. Now, I know my water is 3 months old and probably the TDS is quite high as we use it allot, but there is a slightly different odor now. A chemical sort of odor that I can feel in my eyes a bit. The Chlorine has been steady around 2.2 -> 3.3. The water is clear but foams a bit with the jets on high. Is anybody else using Borax and finds it gives an odor? I made sure it was simple Borax and there was no detergent, scent, phosphates etc. in it. thanks for the suggestions, Greg

Mine foams up when the PH is too low. I too noticed more foam when jets are on high and the pH was low. When I would raise pH there would be less foam. The foaming never goes away fully as I was told it is a factor of my total dissolved solids (TDS) being high. I don't wash the swim suit as often. Wipe down armpits to remove deodorant. You can use a baby wipe ;-) Sometimes take the water level down a bit and top it up with fresh water. Greg

thanks for the information. I am interested in trying Borax but do not think we have the 20 Mule product here in Canada. Does anyone have an idea where to get it and in what form/product? I am guessing this may be something I'll find at Home Depot, Reno Depot, Canadian Tire? thanks, Greg BTW I just dumped in 30+ grams of pH-UP and brought the pH from 6.6 to 7.5, perfect. TA went from 131 to 164 though.

You know, I do that most evenings by just using the tub. Say 1 hour each night with the air full and jets on high and it's never (noticeably) raised the pH. I keep a spa log of readings and it's always the same thing, pH is too low and TA is too high. I can fix either one but the other then goes out of wack. pH-Up or ALC-up will raise both (pH & TA) Lo-N-Slo will lower both (pH & TA) I am starting to think pH is MORE important then TA as when my pH is in range the water behaves better, less odor and less foam. What about baking soda? is it any different? thanks for your suggestions, btw I have read (and re-read) your link and refer to it often. Greg

thanks for that. Easy then, a trip to True Value it is...

My Ph was 6.5 and TA 141. I dumped in a full cap (30 grams) of Ph-UP and the next day it read Ph 7.0 TA 165. The good news is less foam with the jets on high. I know, my TDS is probably up there now but I'm stretching it before our next water change. The bad news is TA goes up with Ph. I leave my air on full at all times to try to lower TA. I don't want to add Lo-N-slow as it will take my Ph down along with the TA. I've read about Muriatic Acid but don't know what it is or where to get it. Any suggestions? thanks, Greg

Does anybody know a good place to buy this kit in Canada, and more locally Ottawa Ontario? My local water testing place said they will special order a kit for me to test CH but I assume that will come with a special price as well

My Watkins Caldera SPA manual states the correct range for TA is 125-150. Most research I've seen on the web have folks quoting 80-120. My AquaCheck manual agrees with 80-120. As for the tub, it has had the pH range of 7.4-8.2 while TA has bounced around 145-220. The target I was using is pH 7.5 & TA 120. I've been lowering the TA and last night it was 145. So, do I go for 120 or is lower better? thanks in advance, Greg

HydroDog, what a simplistic but great idea! I have been curious about my ozonator and will give this a try.

Hi, I'm new to SPA's and just got a Caldera Cumberland model a month back. I am using SpaGuard Lo'N'Slo to bring down the TA & pH. I believe it's Sodium Bisulphate. Anyhow, I find it very confusing all the directions stated that say "first reduce TA, then lower your pH". Even the product I use states this (as seen below from their website), yet it is the same product that is used to do both! I've also been told to reduce the pH first then watch TA. Isn't pH just the balance and a byproduct of TA? What I've been doing is watching the pH. If it's acceptable 7.2-7.6 I leave the water alone even if the TA is a bit high. If pH is high (it has never been too low) I throw in an amount of Lo'N'Slo and watch the numbers fall a bit by periodic testing. I have never managed to get all three (TA, pH, CL) to be happy. I use an AquaCheck tester. One is either low or high, and in the case of CL it's usually 0.0. But as my spa pro tells me as long as the water is clear, no odors, and no markings on the tub just throw in a bit of chlorine (I use Lithium) and be done. Don't fret over a slightly raised level of TA or pH. Greg >>clip>> Always adjust the Total Alkalinity first, followed by the pH. Total Alkalinity is simply a measure of all the alkaline minerals (carbonates, bicarbonates and hydroxides) in your water. High Total Alkalinity will mean that pH adjustment will be extremely difficult, scale will form and the water clarity in you tub may be affected.