LauraG
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Posts posted by LauraG
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I've just completed my tests.
FC 5
pH 7.2
TA 50
CYA 30
CH 200
I have not cleaned the 'ring' with the baking soda yet. I will do that tonight. Then I will areate again.
Are these reading ok? They are all lower than Nitro's.
Have you been aerating? That pH is still a little low. You need to get it up to 7.6-7.8. If you're having trouble getting your pH up, you can raise your TA to 60 with Baking Soda. But remember, you'll be using Baking Soda to clean that stain. Don't add any BS until your done cleaning, because you may not need it afterward.
Have you been using MPS? If so just remember that's acidic and will lower your TA/pH.
Also, do you have Borates in your tub? If so that will require you to raise something (TA or CH) even more.
A balanced hot tub is CH 200, TA 60 and pH 7.8. If any of those numbers are lower, you're acidic, and need to raise either TA or CH. If you can get that pH up to 7.8, you'll still be a little acidic, but not bad. If it worries you, you can raise your TA to 60 or CH to 250 and be perfect. However, if you raise your TA you may have pH Drift issues, and if you raise your CH you can't take it back out without refilling.
I would just continue to aerate, clean the stain and test again.
Thanks Nitro..... I have been aerating. Actually, the pH was up to 7.8 on Saturday after adding pH up and lot's of aerating. So, I was surprised to see it drop down by today.
I have not used any MPS so far.
As far as the Borates, I have put in Omni Presense Plus (which is supposed to be the same as SpaGuard-Canadian) Hopefully this is mostly Boric Acid, but there are no ingredients on the container! I am going to try to find out what is in it.
I will do nothing until I use the Baking Soda tonight.
I'm going away for the weekend and want to make sure things are ok before I go. My daughter is going to check it (I'm sure she'll be using it as well!! LOL)
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Richard, the pH was still 7.0 so, I added just one teaspoon pH up and aerated for an hour, now it's 7.8. I am developing a yellowy brownish stain around the water line, and I can't scrub it off. This was before the 7.8 pH, although I have no idea if this is a factor.
Is that a stain, or is it more of a film? Is it slippery to the touch? Try putting a little Baking Soda on a wet rag and wipe it off. Careful with the BS, because it will raise your TA if you use too much.
It is a stain for sure, and not slippery to the touch. I will carefully wipe with the BS. Thanks.
I've just completed my tests.
FC 5
pH 7.2
TA 50
CYA 30
CH 200
I have not cleaned the 'ring' with the baking soda yet. I will do that tonight. Then I will areate again.
Are these reading ok? They are all lower than Nitro's.
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Richard, the pH was still 7.0 so, I added just one teaspoon pH up and aerated for an hour, now it's 7.8. I am developing a yellowy brownish stain around the water line, and I can't scrub it off. This was before the 7.8 pH, although I have no idea if this is a factor.
Is that a stain, or is it more of a film? Is it slippery to the touch? Try putting a little Baking Soda on a wet rag and wipe it off. Careful with the BS, because it will raise your TA if you use too much.
It is a stain for sure, and not slippery to the touch. I will carefully wipe with the BS. Thanks.
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I just can't thank you enough (again) for all of your time and help. I've just got to tell you that you have no idea how much your help (and Nitro's too ) means to me. I am learning so much and I'm actually enjoying it. I promise that I will be more dedicated to the exact measurments. You might not like this, but I did add one teaspoon of pH up just to help me out, as the areating for over an hour did bring up the pH, but not enough IMHO.
It's funny that you mentioned another site as I was going to ask you about that. Would you rather I started posting my test results there instead of here? This site does make me nervous after last weekend.
You are most welcome. You can continue to post here for now, but my "home" is really at Trouble Free Pool (TFP) and if this site continues with the spam posts I'll probably be leaving. If you want to move to TFP you are certainly welcome to and there are others there who can help you -- Nitro has signed up over there and waterbear has always been there (he used to post here more frequently).
Richard, the pH was still 7.0 so, I added just one teaspoon pH up and aerated for an hour, now it's 7.8. I am developing a yellowy brownish stain around the water line, and I can't scrub it off. This was before the 7.8 pH, although I have no idea if this is a factor.
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So Richard, should I consider raising my TA to 60ppm?
Why don't you wait until you've finished the chemical additions including Omni Presence Plus and have you using Purox. We can then see what sort of pH stability you have and get a better sense for your numbers. Then, we may increase TA a little and possibly CH as well, but this isn't urgent. Having these numbers somewhat low isn't going to cause damage quickly. It's when people have virtually no TA and let their pH crash (i.e. drop precipitously) that problems can occur more quickly.
So enjoy the tub, test regularly, and report how things are going. We can then see how things look for you day-to-day.
If this site continues to get spam as it has recently, y'all might consider posting to the Spa / Hot Tub Care section at Trouble Free Pool.
Richard
I just can't thank you enough (again) for all of your time and help. I've just got to tell you that you have no idea how much your help (and Nitro's too ) means to me. I am learning so much and I'm actually enjoying it. I promise that I will be more dedicated to the exact measurments. You might not like this, but I did add one teaspoon of pH up just to help me out, as the areating for over an hour did bring up the pH, but not enough IMHO.
It's funny that you mentioned another site as I was going to ask you about that. Would you rather I started posting my test results there instead of here? This site does make me nervous after last weekend.
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Chem Geek,
I just changed my water, I'm debating on how much Calcium to use. Before this refill, I had my TA at 60 ppm, and my pH was locked at 7.6-7.8. However with CH at 150 ppm, that's a little acidic. What would be the issue with having a higher CH i.e. 200-250?
At a 100F temperature, and with 50 ppm Borates and 30 ppm CYA, the saturation index is from -0.32 to -0.18 so is on the corrosive/dissolving side. So IF you keep your TA at 60 and your pH in the 7.6-7.8 range, then a CH of 200-250 would be better. The 50 ppm Borates contribute around 9 ppm to the TA at this higher temperature (at 80F, it only adds around 6 ppm to TA). So between the Borates and the CYA, the carbonate alkalinity is 40 (at pH 7.6) to 35 (at pH 7.8). The good news with that is greater pH stability, but it does mean you can compensate for these low carbonates with higher calcium hardness.
This just points out that when having higher CYA or having Borates, one should probably not go below 60 ppm in TA. The 50 ppm TA floor I sometimes refer to would be with no Borates and the lower 20 ppm CYA level.
Richard
So Richard, should I consider raising my TA to 60ppm?
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Chem Geek,
I just changed my water, I'm debating on how much Calcium to use. Before this refill, I had my TA at 60 ppm, and my pH was locked at 7.6-7.8. However with CH at 150 ppm, that's a little acidic. What would be the issue with having a higher CH i.e. 200-250?
AAHH crap....I did think it wasTBS. I will surely be more cautious. Thank you both for your help!
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Nov. 13 pH was 7.4, TA 100
I added 2 TBS Dichlor (the last two!!)
added 2TBS pH down aerated for olnly about 5 min. I thought the pH didn't need to go down, that is why. Am I correct here?
Later on tonight I was going to add the 'Omni Presence Plus' . Hopefully it is the same as the SpaGuard Plus.
The directions say this,"1. For initial application, broadcast 200g (approx. 13 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres of spa water, with the filter running. 2. On a weekly basis thereafter, 30 - 45 grams (2 - 3 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres to maintain optimal performance."
When they say "with the filter running", do they mean the jets?
Can you give me how much you think I should put in?
Also, I suppose I will just keep on slowly adding the pH down to reduce the TA? So far, as you can see, nothing seems to have happened to the TA.
Laura,
The reason for adding pH down was to lower the TA since pH down will lower BOTH pH AND TA while aeration only increases pH with no change in TA. So by doing both acid addition and aeration, the TA gets lowered.
You probably won't need to add the Omni Presence Plus every week -- it doesn't break down and I don't think you have a lot of splash out (evaporation doesn't remove the product). I can't find anything on the web about this specific product. Is their an ingredients list on it and if so, what does it say?
"with the filter running" means having at least the circulation filter on. You don't have to have the jets on. Your spa should have a mode where the water is circulated even if the jets are not on. If you can't figure out how to do that, then run with the jets on but I'd add the product near and not in front of a jet since you don't want things to splash out (in your face, etc.).
If the Omni Presence Plus product is mostly Boric Acid, then 200 grams per 1000 liters would raise the borates level by 35 ppm. For your 380 gallon spa and to get to 50 ppm Borates, I would add 14-1/2 ounces weight or a little more than 8 fluid ounces volume (that's one cup which is 16 tablespoons). You say that 200 grams is approximately 13 tablespoons which would be a density of 1.04 g/ml -- was the "approximately 13 tablespoons" something they said or something you estimated or something you actually weighed? The density of Boric Acid is more like 1.66 g/ml -- Borax is closer to 1.0 g/ml. So if you have a scale (say, a postage scale), weigh 1 cup or some other large amount of the product. I would expect 1 cup to weigh about 14 ounces (about 410 grams). If it instead weighs closer to 8 ounces (about 225 grams), then the product is more likely to be Borax and may not be pH balanced.
Richard
I typed the directions that were on the label. It also say the is a " Mulit-Functional water enhancer with corroision inhititors.
Makes water feel soft and silky. Enhances bather comfort. Improves water clarity. Protects metal surfaces and equipment.Does not affect pH and improves water comfort."
It does not however list any ingredients. I was assured by the spa store that it is the same as the SpaGuard product.
I started with the Purox last night. We had 4 in for 5 hours. Great fun. I added 1/3 cup in during the soak, and another 1/3 after, with 2 more TBS pH down.
This morning I added another 1/3 cup Purox.
Just now, I added 3 TBS pH down, along with the aeration, and then 7 TBS of the Omni Presence Plus (brings it up to 16 TBS in total)
The FC according to the test strip seems fine. I am going to re-test everything with the Taylor Kit a little later on today.
hmmmm Here are the results. I am not sure if you are going to like them much:
pH 7.0 (still aerating) about 20 min so far.
TA 50
CH 200
CYA 35
FC 5.5
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Nov. 13 pH was 7.4, TA 100
I added 2 TBS Dichlor (the last two!!)
added 2TBS pH down aerated for olnly about 5 min. I thought the pH didn't need to go down, that is why. Am I correct here?
Later on tonight I was going to add the 'Omni Presence Plus' . Hopefully it is the same as the SpaGuard Plus.
The directions say this,"1. For initial application, broadcast 200g (approx. 13 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres of spa water, with the filter running. 2. On a weekly basis thereafter, 30 - 45 grams (2 - 3 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres to maintain optimal performance."
When they say "with the filter running", do they mean the jets?
Can you give me how much you think I should put in?
Also, I suppose I will just keep on slowly adding the pH down to reduce the TA? So far, as you can see, nothing seems to have happened to the TA.
Laura,
The reason for adding pH down was to lower the TA since pH down will lower BOTH pH AND TA while aeration only increases pH with no change in TA. So by doing both acid addition and aeration, the TA gets lowered.
You probably won't need to add the Omni Presence Plus every week -- it doesn't break down and I don't think you have a lot of splash out (evaporation doesn't remove the product). I can't find anything on the web about this specific product. Is their an ingredients list on it and if so, what does it say?
"with the filter running" means having at least the circulation filter on. You don't have to have the jets on. Your spa should have a mode where the water is circulated even if the jets are not on. If you can't figure out how to do that, then run with the jets on but I'd add the product near and not in front of a jet since you don't want things to splash out (in your face, etc.).
If the Omni Presence Plus product is mostly Boric Acid, then 200 grams per 1000 liters would raise the borates level by 35 ppm. For your 380 gallon spa and to get to 50 ppm Borates, I would add 14-1/2 ounces weight or a little more than 8 fluid ounces volume (that's one cup which is 16 tablespoons). You say that 200 grams is approximately 13 tablespoons which would be a density of 1.04 g/ml -- was the "approximately 13 tablespoons" something they said or something you estimated or something you actually weighed? The density of Boric Acid is more like 1.66 g/ml -- Borax is closer to 1.0 g/ml. So if you have a scale (say, a postage scale), weigh 1 cup or some other large amount of the product. I would expect 1 cup to weigh about 14 ounces (about 410 grams). If it instead weighs closer to 8 ounces (about 225 grams), then the product is more likely to be Borax and may not be pH balanced.
Richard
I typed the directions that were on the label. It also say the is a " Mulit-Functional water enhancer with corroision inhititors.
Makes water feel soft and silky. Enhances bather comfort. Improves water clarity. Protects metal surfaces and equipment.Does not affect pH and improves water comfort."
It does not however list any ingredients. I was assured by the spa store that it is the same as the SpaGuard product.
I started with the Purox last night. We had 4 in for 5 hours. Great fun. I added 1/3 cup in during the soak, and another 1/3 after, with 2 more TBS pH down.
This morning I added another 1/3 cup Purox.
Just now, I added 3 TBS pH down, along with the aeration, and then 7 TBS of the Omni Presence Plus (brings it up to 16 TBS in total)
The FC according to the test strip seems fine. I am going to re-test everything with the Taylor Kit a little later on today.
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In Europe, people usually have scales since most everything is measured by weight and not volume. This is technically a much better way to go, both for cooking and for chemical additions to pools and spas. In the U.S. we tend to measure things by volume, so that's where the density of the substance becomes important. Unfortunately, density is not something that is consistent (except for solid blocks of a substance) since it's very dependent on the granularity of powdered products.
I've roughly determined the density of various pool chemicals and have that info built into my spreadsheet. 1 g/ml density (about the density of water) is equivalent to 0.96 fluid ounces per ounce weight (1.04 ounces weight per fluid ounce volume). This post gives the bulk density (which is what you purchase) of many common dry pool/spa chemicals, most of which I have measured myself.
Richard
Just to keep you updated (before I'm asking for advice again!!! )
Last night I put 1 TBS pH down around 5:00 and areated
2 people in tub from 7 until 10:40
at 8:30 I added 1 TBS Dichlor
checked at 10:30 pH 7.6, FC 8.0, TA 100
10:45 added 1 TBS pH down aerated 15 min.
Nov. 13 pH was 7.4, TA 100
I added 2 TBS Dichlor (the last two!!)
added 2TBS pH down aerated for olnly about 5 min. I thought the pH didn't need to go down, that is why. Am I correct here?
Later on tonight I was going to add the 'Omni Presence Plus' . Hopefully it is the same as the SpaGuard Plus.
The directions say this,"1. For initial application, broadcast 200g (approx. 13 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres of spa water, with the filter running. 2. On a weekly basis thereafter, 30 - 45 grams (2 - 3 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres to maintain optimal performance."
When they say "with the filter running", do they mean the jets?
Can you give me how much you think I should put in?
Also, I suppose I will just keep on slowly adding the pH down to reduce the TA? So far, as you can see, nothing seems to have happened to the TA.
By the way, just got the computer back!!
oops, 3 people in tub...2 sweaty men, and moi! LOL
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In Europe, people usually have scales since most everything is measured by weight and not volume. This is technically a much better way to go, both for cooking and for chemical additions to pools and spas. In the U.S. we tend to measure things by volume, so that's where the density of the substance becomes important. Unfortunately, density is not something that is consistent (except for solid blocks of a substance) since it's very dependent on the granularity of powdered products.
I've roughly determined the density of various pool chemicals and have that info built into my spreadsheet. 1 g/ml density (about the density of water) is equivalent to 0.96 fluid ounces per ounce weight (1.04 ounces weight per fluid ounce volume). This post gives the bulk density (which is what you purchase) of many common dry pool/spa chemicals, most of which I have measured myself.
Richard
Just to keep you updated (before I'm asking for advice again!!! )
Last night I put 1 TBS pH down around 5:00 and areated
2 people in tub from 7 until 10:40
at 8:30 I added 1 TBS Dichlor
checked at 10:30 pH 7.6, FC 8.0, TA 100
10:45 added 1 TBS pH down aerated 15 min.
Nov. 13 pH was 7.4, TA 100
I added 2 TBS Dichlor (the last two!!)
added 2TBS pH down aerated for olnly about 5 min. I thought the pH didn't need to go down, that is why. Am I correct here?
Later on tonight I was going to add the 'Omni Presence Plus' . Hopefully it is the same as the SpaGuard Plus.
The directions say this,"1. For initial application, broadcast 200g (approx. 13 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres of spa water, with the filter running. 2. On a weekly basis thereafter, 30 - 45 grams (2 - 3 tablespoons) of Omni Presence Plus per 1,000 litres to maintain optimal performance."
When they say "with the filter running", do they mean the jets?
Can you give me how much you think I should put in?
Also, I suppose I will just keep on slowly adding the pH down to reduce the TA? So far, as you can see, nothing seems to have happened to the TA.
By the way, just got the computer back!!
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I was planning on adding 2 more TBS of Dichlor tomorrow, then 2 more TBS on Thurs. then begin using Purox Friday, (CYA should be around 30 by then) but if I need to add more Dichlor when we use the tub tomorrow, this would move my switch date to Purox to possibly Thursday correct?
I know it sounds strange about the lap top, and really doesn't make sense, but it still is maddening as hell!! It happened around 4:45 on Nov.8. Did you notice when this site had the troubles? My computer is still in the shop.
If you add a lot more Dichlor earlier then you could switch to Purox earlier, but I wouldn't worry too much about that -- getting it exactly right isn't a big deal. If you switch on Friday I'm sure it will be fine. So long as your CYA is roughly in the 20-50 ppm range, that should be OK.
It seems that the site went down on Saturday, November 8th and after it came up the next day about one week's worth of posts were gone. They probably had some sort of crash and restored what they had from their last (apparently weekly) backup.
Hi Richard:
I put in one tbs pH down last night.
This morning I added 2 tbs Dichlor
At about 3:00 today I tested... pH was 7.6 or 7.7( it was in between the two colours)
FC 11
TA 100
Should I lower the TA now, and if so , how?
Also, someone is coming over at 7:30 tonight for a hot tub, is the FC too high?
corection...I put on one teaspoon pH down last night NOT one TBS
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I was planning on adding 2 more TBS of Dichlor tomorrow, then 2 more TBS on Thurs. then begin using Purox Friday, (CYA should be around 30 by then) but if I need to add more Dichlor when we use the tub tomorrow, this would move my switch date to Purox to possibly Thursday correct?
I know it sounds strange about the lap top, and really doesn't make sense, but it still is maddening as hell!! It happened around 4:45 on Nov.8. Did you notice when this site had the troubles? My computer is still in the shop.
If you add a lot more Dichlor earlier then you could switch to Purox earlier, but I wouldn't worry too much about that -- getting it exactly right isn't a big deal. If you switch on Friday I'm sure it will be fine. So long as your CYA is roughly in the 20-50 ppm range, that should be OK.
It seems that the site went down on Saturday, November 8th and after it came up the next day about one week's worth of posts were gone. They probably had some sort of crash and restored what they had from their last (apparently weekly) backup.
Hi Richard:
I put in one tbs pH down last night.
This morning I added 2 tbs Dichlor
At about 3:00 today I tested... pH was 7.6 or 7.7( it was in between the two colours)
FC 11
TA 100
Should I lower the TA now, and if so , how?
Also, someone is coming over at 7:30 tonight for a hot tub, is the FC too high?
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Laura,
You can lower the pH a bit using pH Down. Don't worry about the TA yet, especially since you're still using Dichlor. Just see how the pH goes and add acid to lower it as needed -- over time the TA will slowly drop and if you want to accelerate that process later you can do so (i.e. aerate more and add more acid, as Nitro described for the TA lowering procedure).
You can see what the Calcium Hardness (CH) test should look like here. To prevent a fading endpoint, you can add some drops of titrant to your sample before you add the calcium buffer. Just add the number of drops of titrant you add to your total number of such titrant drops (the 20 drops of buffer never count towards this).
It's not critical when you add the SpaGuard Plus, but I'd add it the day before you switch to Purox.
I don't think this particular website had anything to do with your computer crash, though this site did have some sort of problem where it lost a week's worth of data so perhaps you were online when that happened and it did something to your browser -- that shouldn't have hurt your system, however. There are viruses your computer can get from visiting certain websites that exploit flaws in a browser, but if you keep your system up to date with automatic updates, you should be avoiding most such problems.
Richard
Thank you Richard!!! I was trying to guess as to what you would say, and I came up with lowering the pH!!! I did not do it though....waited for advice. I will do it now.
I went to the CH link you sent and it looks as though I did indeed do the test correctly.
I was planning on adding 2 more TBS of Dichlor tomorrow, then 2 more TBS on Thurs. then begin using Purox Friday, (CYA should be around 30 by then) but if I need to add more Dichlor when we use the tub tomorrow, this would move my switch date to Purox to possibly Thursday correct?
I know it sounds strange about the lap top, and really doesn't make sense, but it still is maddening as hell!! It happened around 4:45 on Nov.8. Did you notice when this site had the troubles? My computer is still in the shop.
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Bummer! I had some good posts in the last couple days, about balancing water. I hope LaruaG took good notes. Looks like I'll have to repost my thoughts, after saving them myself first.
Does anyone know if that data is gone for good?
Nitro.....I took notes for the re-fill. I can't even use my lap top anymore. It is totally screwed. I don't have all the great info that both you and chem geek gave me.
I must tell you though, that Sat. night we had 7 at a time in the tub, and I did what you said about checking the water every hour or so, and added purox. It worked great. I added msd and lot's of purox after the soak as well, and voila!! perfect!
Do you know about how much Purox you added, and what FC you started with? Just curious.
Well, On Nov. 8, I added 10 TBS of Purox and the FC was 6.5 The pH was 7.0 in the afternoon.
I added 5 oz. of Purox and 50 grams of MPS after about an hour and a half or so (I was in there having fun too, so it's hard to keep track!) By then it was about 2:30 a.m. Then after about another hour I added about 10 oz. of Purox. We were eating and drinking in there, and being noisy too--poor neighbors!!!! The next day The pH was 7.2, FC was 7.0 . I added pH up (about 13 grams) added Metal Guard (just poured a bit in) and areated. I sort of wanted to see what would happen as I was going to change the water any way.
On the 10th, I added about 1/3 of a cup of Purox. Just 2 of us were in it for about 45 minutes. Today is a new day with new water!! By the way, I've got a proper measuring spoon now, plus I will get a proper measuring cup for the Purox before I switch over from the Dichlor.
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This post needs to be stickied to the top of the page!!
[/quote
Calling Chem geek and Nitro!!
Hi there.
Well, today we have re-filled the hot tub. I think that I have followed the correct procedures, but.... I put in 8 TBS of calcuim increaser, plus 2 TBS of Dichlor. I aerated for 17 in. Needless to say the water is still quite cold. I tested. Here are the results: pH 8.0 , CH 175, TA 100, FC 10.0.
My question for now is this- when testing the CH is says the water should turn blue. Does this mean a 'pretty vibrant blue', or more of a 'violet lightish blue?' If so,(violet sort of blue) the CH is perhaps about 150.
Should I adjust the TA to 80, or wait a bit and see what happens as the water heats up?
Also, I went to the store to get SpaGuard Plus, but got the their brand name's version of SpaGuard Plus. There were no ingredients on either bottle (the store actually had an empty bottle of the SpaGuard Plus beside their version) but the instructions and purpose were the same.
When exactly should I add this to the hot tub. I know it should be before I switch to Purox, which will more likely be Friday, so perhaps I should add it on Thursday? I should follow the directions on the bottle?
Hmmm, I guess I have asked too many questions again!!!
By the way, I had to take my lap top in to get fixed. I am a little worried about using this site. It did cause my computer to shut down. I tried to contact the webmaster, but alas, it was not allowed.
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Bummer! I had some good posts in the last couple days, about balancing water. I hope LaruaG took good notes. Looks like I'll have to repost my thoughts, after saving them myself first.
Does anyone know if that data is gone for good?
Nitro.....I took notes for the re-fill. I can't even use my lap top anymore. It is totally screwed. I don't have all the great info that both you and chem geek gave me.
I must tell you though, that Sat. night we had 7 at a time in the tub, and I did what you said about checking the water every hour or so, and added purox. It worked great. I added msd and lot's of purox after the soak as well, and voila!! perfect!
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Well, after losing some posts about balancing water, I decided to organize my thoughts and put them all down in one place. And of course save it on my own system incase anything happens to the forums again. So here we go.
Introduction
There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and Sanitation. There are a few different methods to sanitize your hot tub, Bromine and Chlorine being the most popular. However, I will only cover Chlorine, because that's what I know the best, thanks to Richard (Chem Geek). It is based on his famous Dichlor/Bleach method. However, Water Balance is related to all sanitation methods, so it could be helpful to anyone.
I will assume you have a fresh fill of water in your tub. If you don't and you're having problems, or it's close to the time to refill, you're better off just refilling your tub and starting over. Hot tub water should be changed every 3-5 months depending on usage. However, if your tub has serious problems, or you bought a used tub etc., you may want to decontaminate your tub. Hillbilly Hot Tub has laid out the process nicely here.
In order to really maintain your water properly you need to test it. Test strips are ok for getting rough estimates, but IMO will make it more difficult to maintain your tub. It would be difficult for me to keep my tub as well tuned as it is by just using test strips. For a novice, I can see it being really difficult, especially if you have Well Water. Do yourself a favor and get a Drop Test kit such as the Taylor K-2006.
One more note. Before I got my hot tub, I knew nothing about water chemistry. After I started studying hot tub water chemistry, I realized there was a lot more to keeping a hot tub water safe then I anticipated. However, after learning it, I realized it doesn't have to be difficult or time consuming. This may get a little technical, but once you learn it, you'll have no trouble keeping your water balanced/sanitized.
Water Balance
Water can be either Acidic, Balanced or Alkaline. If your water is not balanced, it could cause all kinds of problems. If it's too Acidic it could cause corrosion. If it's too Alkaline it could cause scaling. Both of which will reducing the effectiveness of your sanitizer. If your water is not balanced your water is not safe for you, or your tub. So it's really critical to get this correct.
There are four main parameters to keeping your water balanced. Water Temperature, Calcium Hardness (CH), Total Alkalinity (TA) and Potens Hydrogen (pH). Assuming your water temp is around 100 degrees, we'll just focus on CH, TA and pH. The best way to test these is with a Drop Test kit, like the one mentioned above. IMO Test Strips are just not accurate enough to test these, especially for a beginner.
Calcium Hardness: CH is basically the amount of Calcium in your water. The lower your CH, the higher your TA and pH need to be to have balanced water. The higher your CH, the lower your TA and pH need to be. The first thing you should do is test your CH in your tub. If you haven't filled your tub yet, test your tap water for CH using a drop test kit. If you have a water softener in your house, it will remove most of the Calcium in your water. That means you may get a different reading from your indoor sink then from the outdoor hose. Check both to make sure. If you have really bad well water i.e. lots of metals etc., you may want to fill your tub using the water softener water, then just add Calcium afterward. If your water is city treated water, you may be ok straight from the hose. Also, consider getting a pre-filter that attaches to your hose, and filters out some of the metals.
Here's my recommendation. If your CH is much below 100 ppm, you should add calcium to bring it up to 130-150 range. If your CH is over 100, you can leave it alone and just make a note of what it is. The CH level will be used to determine your TA/pH levels. To raise Calcium you add Calcium Chloride, aka Calcium Increaser. You can find it at most Pool/Spa supply stores. The good news is you only need to add Calcium once per water change, because it will stay relatively the same until your next water change.
Potens Hydrogen: pH is the measure of acidity in your water. It's on a scale of 0 to 14, 7 being neutral. The human eye has a pH of 7.5, so the ideal range in Pools/Spas is 7.4-7.6 with a min of 7.2 and max of 7.8. However, and this is important, just because you have a pH of 7.5, doesn't mean your water is balanced. If your CH is too low, you could be corroding your hot tub heater. If your TA is too high, you could be forming scale in your tub. Both of which will reduce your sanitizer effectiveness. So it is very important to have balanced water along with an ideal pH.
Total Alkalinity: Alkalinity is a pH Buffer. High levels of TA will not allow pH to change from additions of acid or base. However, a high TA requires a low pH to have balanced water. On the other hand, very low levels of TA will allow the pH to change with very little acid. A very low TA level could cause your pH to drop to low levels, very fast with little acid. Also, the lower your TA, the higher your pH needs to be to have balanced water. So as you can see, a very low TA can become very unstable.
However, pH will have a tenancy to rise with aeration (i.e. use of jets and air), more so if your TA is high. Although, as long as you're not adding Acid (or anything with a lower pH) to your tub, the pH will not usually drop. Therefore, in hot tubs the problem is normally pH rise (or Drift), because of all the aeration. So the trick is to get the TA high enough to not create an unstable situation, and low enough to not allow pH to rise too much.
Let me repeat the last sentence, because it's the single most important thing to keeping your water balanced. The key to having balanced water, without pH drift, is having the correct TA level. If you find your pH rises too high (>8.0) after using your tub, your TA is too high, and needs to be lowered. If you find your pH is too low and/or your water is continually acidic, your TA is too low and needs to be raised. By fine tuning your TA, you can get your pH perfectly balanced, that rarely needs adjustment.
SO, what's a good TA then? That depends on your CH. If your CH is around 150 ppm, your TA would need to be 80 ppm for your water to be balanced with an ideal pH of 7.6. How did I come up with those numbers you ask? Easy, I went to The Pool Calculator website, and plugged in a Temp of 100, CH of 150, pH of 7.6 and adjusted TA until the CSI was close to zero. This website allows you to calculate your Saturation Index, based on the four Main parameters, Temp, CH, TA and pH. If CSI is less than zero your acidic, if it's greater than zero your alkaline and of it's close to zero your balanced.
OK, how do we adjust TA then? If TA is too low, you just add Baking Soda to raise it. However, if TA is high, it's little more involved. You'll need Acid (Dry or Muriatic). Depending on how high your TA is will depend on how long it will take you. Plan on it taking around an hour to decrease TA by 100 ppm. So if your TA is 300 ppm, plan it taking around 2-3 hours. First, uncover your tub and turn on all your jets, air, blowers, waterfalls etc. Test your pH. When it's greater than 7.8, add enough acid to bring it down to 7.0. Keep aerating until your pH is 7.8 again, then add more acid and repeat. Everytime you add acid you're lowering your pH and TA. When you get your TA tuned perfectly, your pH will rise to a level (i.e. ~7.6) and stop, then you know you're at your ideal TA level. If your pH is rising too high (>8.0), bring your TA down a little more. If your pH doesn't rise enough from aeration (after an hour or more), you over shot it and need to add a little Baking Soda to raise your TA. After a few days/weeks of monitoring it, you'll get your TA tuned perfectly. You may need to add a little Dry Acid once a week or two, but your water should be well balanced at that point.
Lastly, there is one more thing I haven't mentioned that you can add to your tub that will help buffer your pH, Borates. The easiest way to add Borates to your tub is to get a product called Gentle Spa. It is pH balanced, so there is no need to add acid to counter balance it. The ideal amount is ~50 ppm, and only needs to be added once per water change. That will help keep your pH from drifting from aeration. Not to mention, actually make your water feel silkier. I highly recommend it.
BTW, I'm purposely not giving the exact amounts of Calcium, Baking Soda or Acid to use, because The Pool Calculator will calculate that all for you. Just enter your tub size at the top, enter the current level in the left column, then enter your goal amount in the right. It will tell you the amount and what you need to add. For instance, if you enter tub size of 320 gal, a pH of 7.8 in the left column and 7.0 in the right, it calculates .4 oz or 2 tbs of Dry Acid. All you need to balance your water perfectly is Calcium Chloride, Baking Soda, Dry Acid and The Pool Calculator.
Sanitation
I'm only going to discuss Chlorine here, because I don't know enough about Bromine to comment on it. This is based on Chem Geeks Dichlor/Bleach method. I have found this method to be very easy and safe to use. I have yet to have a problem. I don't want to get into pros and cons, because that's better suited for it's own thread. If you don't know his method, this should explain it to you. If you do know it, maybe this will help you execute it better. I'm not going to get too technical. I'm just going to discuss everything that's important to keep your tub sanitized easily. If you want more details, search through Chem Geek's posts. You'll have plenty to read. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to convince you to use this method. I'm just explaining it. Please weigh all options before making a decision.
There are really two main things happening when your pool/tub is being sanitized. Organic waste is being oxidized, and bacteria/viruses are being killed. Chlorine does both, very well. That's why it's the most popular sanitizer in pools and spas. However, in order for chlorine to be effective there needs to be a Free Chlorine (FC) level in your tub at all times. If it drops to zero, bacteria will multiple within hours. So the number one rule with using chlorine as a sanitizer is, never let it drop to Zero for any length of time. Now lets get started on the procedure.
The first thing we are going to use to sanitize our tub is Dichlor. Dichlor is actually two things, Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid (CYA). CYA is a chlorine stabilizer, which slows down dissipation from UV rays (sunlight). It also acts as a buffer to hold chlorine in reserve. Having CYA in your tub will stop the chlorine from dissipating as fast while waiting for something to do. However, CYA also cuts down on the ability for the chlorine to sanitize. So in other words, the higher the CYA level, the longer the FC will wait in the tub, but the less effective the FC is. With no CYA in the tub, using bleach would be too strong and not practical to use. So, there needs to be a happy medium. Luckily Chem Geek has come up with one for us. He suggests a CYA of ~20 ppm. Personally I use a CYA of 30 ppm for reasons I won't get into here. But I think Chem Geek would agree anywhere between 20-30 is fine. Where the problem comes in is when CYA gets too high (above 100) after weeks of using Dichlor. Then your FC needs to be really high to get the same sanitation effectiveness. That's why we switch to bleach after we get our CYA to 20-30. Bleach doesn't add anymore CYA.
So, I'm going to assume our target CYA is 30, but feel free to use 20 and adjust as necessary. I find that it's easier to keep track of how much Dichlor you're adding to the tub and calculate the CYA, rather than testing CYA with the drop test kit until you get a 30 ppm reading. For every 10 ppm of Dichlor you add to your tub, you add 9 ppm CYA. So roughly 34 ppm Dichlor will give you 30 CYA. On a fresh fill, and after your water is balanced by the above method, shock your tub with Dichlor to 10 ppm FC. Then over the course of the next days, depending on bather load, add 24 ppm more FC using Dichlor. You want to keep your FC normally between 3-6 ppm everyday. This means you will be testing your FC EVERYDAY.
For example: On one day you test your FC and it's 1 ppm. You'll then add 5 ppm FC to bring it to 6. The next day you test FC and it's 3. You then add 3 ppm FC. You will do this until you add a total of 34 ppm FC to your tub using Dichlor. After that, you then switch to using bleach (Clorox Regular Unscented). Important: if you're not willing to test your tub everyday, at least for the first month or two, this method is not for you. I'd recommend another sanitation method
When you use your tub (this applies to when you are still using Dichlor or after you switch to bleach), the rule of thumb is, you'll use approximately 7 ppm FC per person per hour. Now this will depend on a lot of things, water temp, cleanliness of the users etc. If it's just two people, after taking showers, using no swimsuits, with the temp at 98 you may only need 2 ppm FC/person/hour. However, if you have 6 people in their clothes, drinking (spilling) beer, with a temp at 102 causing everyone to sweat, you may need 20 ppm FC/person/hour. So this is where you may need to judgment call and/or experiment. Remember, the Chlorine has to do two things, Oxidize Waste, and Kill Bacteria. If your tub is being subjected to a lot of waste (sweat, beer etc), your FC will be used up and not be able to kill bacteria. Not good! So I'll give you two scenarios and how you might go about running an experiment. Remember, all this up front work is only necessary in the beginning, until you learn how much FC is being used in your tub. Once you know, it becomes easy to maintain. The rule of thumb is, assuming CYA is 20-30 ppm, FC should normally be between 3-6, with a min of 1 and shock to 12 once a week.
We'll go with the easy one first, two people, showered, no suits etc. (Note: Some people prefer to use the tub with very little FC. That's your choice. I'm just telling you how to determine how much FC you're using in a safe manner). Test your FC and add Chlorine to get to 5 ppm FC. After one hour of soaking test FC again. If you find you have no FC after an hour, next time start with 6 or 7. If you find you still have 3 ppm FC, next time it's safe to start with 3-4 ppm FC. Get it? The trick is to have the lowest amount of FC without ever dropping to zero. If you plan on staying in the tub longer than an hour, either start out with more FC, or add some during the soak. However, you don't want to get into the tub with the FC much above 8, unless of course you like a strong smell of chlorine. I got in once with FC at 10, and it was a little too much for me, and I like the smell of Chlorine.
On the other extreme. Full tub of people drinking, sweating etc. Do the same as above, but start out with more FC, maybe 6-8 ppm. Check the FC in an hour (or even a half). If you have no FC, you need to add some and check more often. If you still have FC, add some, and check again in the same time frame. It's the same as above, but you're just using more FC, more often. However, having the FC drop to zero for a short time with your lover, is not the same as with 4-5 other people, if you get my drift. So it's much more important to keep FC above zero at all times during a Hot Tub Party.
If you find you're having trouble keeping FC in your tub during party's, and/or you smell a foul odor during your soaks, you can add Potassium Monopersulfate (MPS or Non-Chlorine Shock) before (and/or during) your soak to help the Chlorine Oxidize waste. The only thing I would say is, go easy with MPS. Use only the amount needed and not much more. It is acidic and will lower your TA/pH if you use a lot. Start out with 1-2 tbs in addition to your normal FC, and see if that cuts down on the FC usage. Up it to 3-4 tbs, or add another 1-2 tbs during the soak if needed. MPS will help oxidize waste. However, it will not kill bacteria, so you still need FC. Also, you can use MPS as a shock once a week to help oxidize leftover waste, and reduce Combined Chlorine (spent FC).
Wow if you made it this far, you did pretty good. It seems like a lot to learn, but it's really not. I'll summarize it here.
Summary
Water Balance
If your CH is much below 100 ppm, raise it to ~150 ppm. Otherwise, make a note of it.
Adjust your TA to ~80 ppm to start with then fine tune from there. Use Baking Soda to raise it, or Acid/Aeration method to lower it.
pH should be between 7.2-7.8. Aerate to Raise pH. Acid to lower it.
If pH creeps up too much (>8.0), lower TA. If pH is to low, and doesn't raise enough by aeration, raise TA.
Add ~50 ppm Borate. (Borox/Acid or Gentle Spa)
Calcium, Baking Soda, Dry Acid and Borates is all you need to balance your water.
Use The Pool Calculator to calculate exact amounts to add.
Sanitation
On a fresh fill use Dichlor until you get to 20-30 ppm CYA. (10 ppm FC = 9 ppm CYA)
Then switch to Clorox Unscented 6% bleach.
Never let FC drop to Zero for any length of time. Keep it between 3-6 ppm normally, min of 1 ppm, and shock to 12 ppm once a week.
Use MPS if needed before hot tub party's and/or once a week to help oxidation. Don't use more than needed, because it's acidic and may lower your TA/pH.
Dichlor, Bleach and MPS is all you need to keep your tub sanitized.
Use The Pool Calculator to calculate exact amounts to add.
Lastly, get a drop test kit such as the Taylor K-2006. Also get FC test strips. They come in handy for a quick FC estimate, during party's etc. The only two things you need to check regularly are FC and pH. Check them everyday and after soaks. Adjust TA as needed. If you have your water well balanced, you'll rarely need to adjust your TA. You'll just be adding chlorine everyday, and after soaks. Shock once a week, and/or after high bather loads. Use MPS if you have party's, and/or don't want to use as much chlorine. Easy as can be, and your tub is always ready.
I hope that helps you to understand Water Maintenance a little better. It helped me just to write. If I missed anything important please let me know, I'll be happy to add it.
Happy tubbing!
Nitro, thanks so much for the information. I have also saved this, and will also print it off. I am not able to retrieve any of the earlier posts!!! NOT GOOD! My computer shut down while I was on this site and hasn't worked since. Very upsetting for a new chemist!!! LOL . By the way , tomorrow is the official re-fill day!!! yippee
Nitro's Approach To Water Maintaince
in Hot Tub Water Chemistry
Posted
Hi chem geek and nitro
I am going to use the baking soda to clean, plus add 2 teaspoons pH up along with aeration now.
I will try again to get 20 Mule Team Borax, as I didn't try too hard because I was hoping the Omin Presence Plus would do the trick. I will re-check the pH after 1/2 an hour.
As my TA is 60, I will be very careful with the BS.