LauraG

With a TA of 100 ppm, you must have added 3 TBS of Baking Soda to the water while cleaning the spa. Be careful about adding BS to the water while cleaning, because you'll end up chasing your tail. i.e. adding base then acid etc. Not only will you be wasting chemicals, you'll be adding to your Total Disolved Solids (TDS). Remember the less we put in our tubs, the longer the water will last. It will be interesting to see what your pH does with a TA of 100 AND Borates in your tub. With my TA at 100 (which is my tap water) I couldn't run my tub for very long without the pH going above 8.0. However, I didn't have Borates in it at the time. If your pH stays under 8.0 for any length of time while your jets are on, maybe that will mean the Borates are working better than we thought. On the other hand, the fact that you added acid to bring you pH down suggests your having a pH creep problem. I have yet to add acid (or MPS) to my tub since my last refill a couple weeks ago, and my pH has been steady at 7.8 Regarding your CC. As Chem Geek said it makes a difference when you test it, before or after you soak. Do you smell anything while you're soaking? When was the last time you gave it a good shock, 12ppm? Are you sure you have FC (3-5) in it before you soak? Also, if you add MPS, it could give you a false CC reading. I'd say if you're not smelling anything, you have enough FC in the tub before you soak everytime, and/or you're using MPS, you're ok. If not, give it a good shock with bleach (or MPS), and keep your FC a little higher. Thanks Nitro....... how much Purox should I put in to shock to 12 ppm let's say if the FC is at 3 ? It is usually about there when I test and before I add more Purox.

When did you measure this? If it's soon after a soak, then don't worry about it as that is normal and it will break down over an hour or two. If it's the next day just before your soak, then is there measurable FC as well? If not, then you aren't using enough chlorine as you should have some measurable FC before your next soak. I measured it around noon today, I was in it last night briefly. There was 2.0 FC still in it when I tested both the FC and the CC. I am pretty consitent with my times of adding the 'regular' daily Purox. It is usually around 3 in the afternoon daily. Then, when needed I add more at night. I have never let the FC get too low at all. In other words, there has always been measurable FC before I get in. As you know, the tub is used quite a bit, so I have to add an extra 6 or more oz. of Purox on average, sometimes during heavier bather loads I have to add even more. Do you think this is why there is a CC of 2.5? It seems to be using up the FC, so does this make sense? I prefer to keep the FC at about 5 or 6, so it was somewhat low today, but I added the usual 6 oz. after I had tested.

Ok then, I won't do anything right now. Let's say the pH rises to 8ish again, and stays that way, then I will just lower the pH or lower the TA? AHHl, now that I re-read Richard's comments, I will lower the TA and increase CH IF the pH rises. With the CC at 2.5, should I do anything?

I've been looking over your shoulder here and learning as I go. I put your numbers into the thepoolcalculator.com and it looks good. [.02] What am I missing? [or did you leave borate and salt numbers in- or not adjust your temp?] FWIW- and kind of a question for Nitro. I used the wheel that comes in the Taylor kit. It uses CH,TA, pH & temp. On that one you score a .04- where +-.5 is the range of balanced water. Is that still a good guide for the Nitro's clorox method? Jim Hi Jim. I really don't do much on my own so far here, I am relying on nitro and chem geek to tell me what to do.As far as leaving the borate numbers in...... you'd have to ask the experts!!! I haven't even tried to use the wheel yet!

How is your TA 100 ppm? That can't be correct, unless you added something to raise it, i.e. Baking Soda. You were at 75 ppm before, and you added some MPS (add acid), which should have brought your TA down even more. Could you recheck that TA to make sure? As far as being balanced, you are a little on the low side, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. I definitely wouldn't add any Acid or Base, as long as your pH is steady around 7.6. BTW, that's why it feels so good. If your pH starts to creep above 8.0, then you can think about adding acid. But again, test your TA again to make sure where it's at. It should not be going up if you're only adding acid. You could add some Calcium to raise your CH up to 200 ppm. That would bring your SI to ~0. Well, I re-checked everything today (before I added today's Purox) and I know that I've not been too'exact' with my tests so far, but I am trying to be more careful! the TA is surely 100. I did add some baking soda while cleaning the sides a week or so ago. I re-tested the CH as it was 175 before, (I checked twice today) and both times it was indeed 175. The pH today is still 7.6. the FC is 2.0 and the CC was 2.5 I am about to add some Purox. I won't do anything else until I hear from you. My guess is to add some MPS?

Keep in mind MPS is acidic and will lower your TA/pH. You might want to check your TA and see where you're at. I believe you were at 75 ppm before. Is that correct? I'm glad this method is working out for you. I believe this method is not diffcult, and anyone can/will learn it, especially if they knew the whole story. Hi. I just completed my tests, and according to your figures, mine is not a balanced tub. Even though, it looks good and feels great, and my husband has had no skin troubles since I have not added any MPS. Here are the results: pH 7.6 FC 3.5 TA 100 CH 150 CYA 35 I forgot to check the CC....will do that later. I know the old "if it aint broke. don't fix it...." but, do you suggest that I lower my TA and raise the CH? I put in 4 oz. of Purox before 3 went in, and afterwards, I added 9 oz. That was around midnight. I did my tests today around 1:00, I was thinking that I'd have a bit more FC left. Oh, and I did have to add acid this week, to lower the pH. I put in 1 tablespoon in on Tues, then I needed to add another on Wed. It has been fine since then.

Laura, It really comes down to whether or not Purox is more concentrated than bleach. If it is, then it might be economical, but if it's about the same strength as bleach, then bleach is less expensive. If you go with bleach, make sure it is unscented and not a "special" type such as one that says it's for "outdoor" use. Basically, Clorox Regular that says "6% Sodium Hypochlorite...5.7% Available Chlorine" is the best. If you get an off-brand bleach, it may need to be Ultra to be at full strength -- in Canada maybe even the Clorox needs to be Ultra (the Regular is OK, but if both Clorox Regular and Ultra are available, then the Regular is probably 5.25% while the Ultra is unlabeld in strength and probably 6-7%). Richard thanks Richard, I have taken down the information. I have 4 bottles of Purox, and things are going well, so I am not too inclined to change , but it is nice to be informed!!!

Thanks Mike, I will check Walmart again... What kind of Clorox are you going to get? I have found that the Purox is working quite well, but, if clorox will do the same for half the price.... why not?

Yes, I would skip the MPS before the next soak to see if it happens again. My mottos are "less is better" and "don't fix it if it ain't broke". If you're not having problems with using just Purox, I'd stick with it. However, if you find you're having trouble keeping up with oxidation during high bather loads, then you can use MPS to help out. If your CC gets too high (>1), or you smell Cloramines dispite shocking with bleach, you can shock with MPS once a week. I must be getting better at this because I sort of suspected that you would say pretty much what you said!!! That is pretty cool, considering that just a few weeks ago I knew absolutely zilch about this stuff!! You and chem geek should be proud of yourselves, and I again thank you very much!! I tested earlier and the pH was down, it was 7.4, which is kind of strange since I was expecting it to rise....the pH creep that you mentioned to watch for. I areated for over an hour tonight. I checked the Ph then and it was 7.8 or 7.9, BUT it was after my husband put in 6 oz. of purox.

One thing to keep in mind, some people are more sensitive to MPS then others. That could be the reason for your husbands rash. Has he ever had problems before you used MPS (i.e. Chlorine only)? The CC readings will show higher if MPS is in the tub. However, 1 tbs of MPS should be used up pretty quick, depending on bather load. Chem Geek could probably estimate it closer than I. I wouldn't worry about it though. If your using MPS you shouldn't have a problem with CC, and therefore don't need to check it. He has had quite a rash in bromine. He does seem to have more sensitive skin than I, but he really seemed to have trouble with the bromine. This has been the first 'incident' while using bleach, but as I mentioned to him, he was in for a very, very long time. And , now that you mention it, he did not have any trouble earlier when I did not use MPS. So, perhaps, the next time, I will just add the Purox, before, during and after the soak and see what happens. What do you think?

Yes, the CC was measured before the next soak. So, then you are saying that my CC readings should be normal by today then? I did add 2 more tablespoons yesterday as well. I was just about to go out and take some tests. Now, just to make sure.... the Non-chlorine shock container that I have (again with no ingredients listed) is indeed MPS?

A CC of 1.0 isn't bad, and is actually quite good considering your high bather loads. You're doing a good job of sanitizing your tub. Are you smelling Chloramines (i.e. CC)? You can give it a good shock with Chlorine (12 ppm), leave the cover off and let the jets/air run for 30-60 mins. Or you can start using MPS. Just remember, once you start using MPS your CC readings will no longer be valid. Also, MPS is acidic and might bring your pH down. Just aerate if it goes below 7.6. If it were me I wouldn't start using MPS unless I was having trouble keeping the smell of CC down, and/or I was having trouble keeping FC up during high bather loads. MPS will help a lot at oxidizing waste, so if used before a party your FC will last longer. oh oh, I read this AFTER we were in the tub for 5 hours last night.....yep, that's what I said, 4 people for 5 hours. We sure do love it. Anyway, I put 1 tbs. MPS before we went in. I checked the levels after about 2 hours, it was getting low, so I added 5 oz. of Purox.....stayed in and checked again, it was fine. Afterwards, I added 6 oz. of Purox. (I checked 3 times throughout the evening). At 1:00 today, the FC was 1.0, I added 6 oz. purox, then about an hour later, I added 2 tbs. MPS. the sides were a bit grungy (for lack of a better word), but not bad at all. I wiped it off. Areated for only about 10 min. The pH was 7.7(before the aerating) My husband has sensitive skin, and his arm has a bit of a rash today...... the rest of us are fine...... I know 5 hours it a bit extreme, but this is what we do. The temp is set at 99 degrees, this is why we can stay in for so long, that plus the few 'pops' that we consume. I am not really smelling chloramines when the lid is opened. It smells clean, and looks good. So, because I used the MPS, the CC readings will no longer be valid for how long?

Do you think I should shock with MPS weekly? My CC was 1.5 yesterday. Sorry, the CC was 1.0 . pH is 7.8

I'd say that bleach is old and lost some of it's effectiveness. Luckly bleach is cheap, and you just need to add more. Just go by your FC level and not the actual amount you add. Keep testing FC after you add it, so you know you're adding enough. Careful when you get a new jug, because it should be stronger. Mine doesn't really have much of a bleach smell. I have to use more than I once thought though. We have high bather loads, so on those days, I am putting in about 6 oz. then sometimes, during the soak I add another 4 or 5 oz. (depending how many people and how long) then again after the soak I add another 6 or 8 oz. Now, most days, I just add 6 oz. It is perfect. My water has been fantastic. Nitro and chem geek have done so much to help me. Could you find the 20 Mule Team Borax that they suggested? I haven't found any, so I am using Omni Presence Plus for my borates. I just got another 4 bottles of Purox from Canadian Tire.

Glad to hear that. And it sounds like you have pH creep under control. Refresh my memory. Do you have Borates in your tub? EDIT: I remember you do have Borates. Do you have the recommeded ~50 ppm though? I believe that I do have Borates. I put in Canada's product of 'Omni Presence Plus', which is supposed to be the same as another Canadian product that chem geek told me to use (SpaGuard Optimizer Plus). I put in the required amount- 16 tablespoons. This was to take the place of 20 Mule Team Borax. Although, I can only hope the salesperson was correct, there we no ingredients listed on the container!!!

Ok, then, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing as it sure seems to be working!!!!

Laura, Glad to hear everything is going good for you. If your pH is hovering between 7.6 and 7.8, you are perfect. Don't change your TA at all. Have you been adding any acid to keep pH down? As far as CH, that's up to you. It will be fine if you leave it where it is. I have mine at 200, but my TA is a little lower at 60. As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Just curious, how often is the tub being used? Hi Nitro..... I haven't added any acid since the very beginning, when I was trying to get things 'into line' so to speak. I am using more Purox than I initally expected, but when I re-read the amounts needed per- person per- soak, it is right on. There a re lots of us that use the tub, and for long periods of time. It is used every day. I love it. I've got to tell ya---the water feels fantastic. I am so proud of myself!!!! LOL I can't thank you and Chem geek enough for all your help and continued suppport. You guys are great!!!! Hopefullly, I can keep learning and get better at it. It just seems too good to be true.

Hi. I've been away, plus too busy to be online!!! I have been keeping up with the spa regiment. The water sure feels good. The TA seems to be holding at 75, and the pH tends to go from 7.6 to 7.8 (after aerating). I haven't checked the CH or the CYA for a bit. Do you think I should re-test and see how it is. The CH was 175 on Nov. 18. CYA was 30. I was wondering if the CH should be higher, as well as the TA( perhaps to 80?) Or should I continue to monitor and see how it goes?

I am using Purox from Canadian Tire. It is 10.8% sodium hypochlorite and the available chlorine content is 10.3%.

Yup. That's correct. If you limit the dry acid to one tablespoon, that shouldn't go to far at lowering the pH and will lower the TA by about 6 ppm each time this is done. If there were no Borates, the pH would get lowered from 8.0 to 7.4 at a TA of 80. With Borates, it will move a lot less. It will be interesting to see what it does -- perhaps the Omni product Laura used wasn't as strong a Borates product as we thought -- we'll see. So, we were in the tub for about 45 min. areated for about 20 or so..... (hard to keep exact track sometimes) when I got out the pH was still 7.8 and the TA was still 75. The FC was down to almost 0 (just used a test strip). I added 6 oz. purox. When I tested at 4ish, the FC was 5, so I can see that your figures about the usage of the purox are right, and I will remember!

Amen to that! As waterbear has often said "a pool (or spa) is NOT a science experiment!". I seem to enjoy 'tweeking' water too, however I seem to make mistakes!! So... I will do as you both say, and leave it alone for a bit. I will test the TA and pH as directed. Tonight I will only add the Purox after a soak. Also, if you guys don't mind, I will re-test again tomorrow and post the results. And yes, the stain did come out. It looks great. Hopefully, it won't come back. I WILL get good at this!!! ok, one more thing tonight---- just to be perfectly clear and not to make a mistake- when you say 'add a little acid to bring TA down" , what exactly do I use again, and are you sure I should use a tablespoon?

Amen to that! As waterbear has often said "a pool (or spa) is NOT a science experiment!". I seem to enjoy 'tweeking' water too, however I seem to make mistakes!! So... I will do as you both say, and leave it alone for a bit. I will test the TA and pH as directed. Tonight I will only add the Purox after a soak. Also, if you guys don't mind, I will re-test again tomorrow and post the results. And yes, the stain did come out. It looks great. Hopefully, it won't come back. I WILL get good at this!!!

Well, that's very weird. Even 1-1/2 teaspoons of baking soda plus 2 teaspoons of pH Up and 4 ounces of Purox would go from a pH of 7.2 and TA of 50 to a pH of 7.6 and TA of 67 (so around 70) assuming you've got around 50 ppm Borates now. The soak with jets on would aerate the water so the higher pH is understandable, but a TA of 100 is not -- unless more baking soda and/or pH Up was added than you thought. If it was 1-1/2 tablespoons of baking soda and 2 tablespoons of pH Up, then that would get you to a pH of 7.8 and TA of 88 (so around 90 -- 100 if you started at 60), but you're sure you are using teaspoons, right? I'm also assuming, based on a PM from you, that your spa is 380 U.S. gallons (not U.K. Imperial) even though you thought it might be U.K. Imperial in a post of yours. As was noted by some other posters, in the future you should probably add less than you think and remeasure at least 15 minutes after mixing to see where you are at. At this point, watch the pH and add small amounts of dry acid to lower the pH to not lower than 7.5, say after your next soak. Don't add more than one tablespoon (3 teaspoons) of dry acid at a time without remeasuring. It's more about seeing a pattern and you should measure the pH at the same point in your procedure, such as soon after your soak and before you add more chlorine. I wonder if you're bringing something in with your suits when soaking, though I wouldn't expect baking soda in them (detergents shouldn't raise the TA). Richard Well, the tub is 1430 litres, and it is pretty close to 380 U.S. gallons right? Or am I wrong? A far as I know, no one's suit is carrying baking soda....but I will ask them all!!! LOL Seriously though, I have a 'proper' measuring teaspoon now, not one from the kitchen drawer!!!

Well, I have re-checked again (twice) very carefully. FC 5 TA 75 pH 7.8 CH 175 What do you think? Should I do anything? Also I should mention that I looked at the bowl my husband was using and he didn't use as much as I had first thought. I was using a teaspoon, not a tablespoon.

I think you are pretty close to being tuned. What you don't want to do is keep overshooting the ideal TA. Anything you do to change TA now should be in very small increments. Your ideal TA could be 55. Just cleaning the water line might add enough Baking Soda to bring your TA up to ideal. BTW, ~1 tbs of Baking Soda will raise your TA from 50 to 60. Keep that in mind while your cleaning, so you don't add too much to the water. After you clean it recheck your TA/pH. Hi chem geek and nitro I am going to use the baking soda to clean, plus add 2 teaspoons pH up along with aeration now. I will try again to get 20 Mule Team Borax, as I didn't try too hard because I was hoping the Omin Presence Plus would do the trick. I will re-check the pH after 1/2 an hour. As my TA is 60, I will be very careful with the BS. Well, I tried to be very careful, but.....the TA is now 100. oh oh pH was 7.8 This is good news I put a bit of BS in a bowl and just dabbed some on the end of a sponge to scrub. My husband helped me, and I believe it was HIM who over did it. All in all, there was approx. 1 to 1 1/2 teaspoons in the bowl... After the soak, I added 4 oz. of Purox, as the FC was almost nil. Now it is 7.0 Surely by now, I must be driving you both crazy!!!