Chas

Our electrical installs - 220v/50a with sub panel - run from $300 for right next to the main electrical panel, to $1700 to upgrade to a 200 amp main house panel and connect to the tub with subpanel.

That is a great price on a great tub. Enjoy!

Yes. The Accolade is a medium-sized tub, and though it technically isn't an "HP," it kicks butt in the performance department. The Prodigy is a small tub, and is an "EE" model. Also, many folks think of the Tiger River Spas as "Hot Spring Spas without Moto Massage Jets." www.tigerriverspas.com

Not to worry yet. The finest spas made occasionally will have a leak. It sounds like they got out there and took care of it. The wet foam should be dug out - they may not get every drop, but it generally doesn't cause any issues once the foam is replaced and the siding closed up.

That doesn't surprise me - Sundance is always copying HotSpring. KIDDING!! But in reality Del most likely makes a similar ozone for the major brands.

I can only speak to HotSpring, Tiger River and Caldera on this one. Caldera puts an ozone system on all but it's lowest level tubs. Those tubs are ozone ready and can have a system added. HotSpring and Tiger River tubs all come ozone ready, and the unit can be added at any time. What these tubs all have in common is a 'contact chamber' which is a length of spa flex. Spa flex is schedule 40 PVC pipe, but flexible. And it has a spiral built in which works in your favor in this application, causing a perfect suspension of the ozone for maximum contact. The length of this tube varies from model to model, but its between 10 and 14 feet from what I have been told. I have seen this being plumbed, and it is rather a long bit of tubing - but wraps around the footwell area once, burried in the foam to keep it toasty warm and as close to flat level as can be to avoid clumping of the air bubbles and gurgling noises. The power outlet is already in place, the contact chamber is already in place - all you have to do is clip out a section of vinyl tubing in the motor compartment for the injector just where the decal says "cut here for ozone," mount the generator unit where that decal says to, and then plug in the little ozone connector tube which is already hanging in the motor comparment for you.

Truthchecker !! I love it !! :-)

Freak, Yes, there is a warranty issue. If you add a third-party ozone system the factory will not cover any damage that it does. It would not be accurate to say it "voids" the warranty, because they will still fix things which are not related to the ozone system. But if the unit somehow does something to your spa - that damage will be up to you to take care of. I have seen one unit installed by a pool guy which simply ran far more electrical current than the control system was designed for, and it did smoke a relay or some other part of the main board. The customer paid for the board and the labor to install it. But that was a rare thing: usually third-party ozone systems put out far less ozone, and draw the same or less current than the board is designed to handle so there is no problem. HotSpring is not looking for ways NOT to cover you, they are reasonable in that they will simply not fix something that wasn't their fault. As to the chip replacement: yes. The Eclipse unit uses a little chip which you either pay to have replaced, or replace yourself. The "Platinum" unit does not require this - and is rated at 15,000 hours. I have our version of that unit go much longer than 15,000 hours, but I have not seen many of the Eclipse units go much beyond the 9000 hour rating. Here are the two ozone-making parts side by side for comparison. Please NOTE that they are not to scale: the chip on the right is tiny(1 5/8" long) compared to the (4" long) chamber on the left. I can't remember the right html coding to get the pictures to the correct size but I'll work on it:

Tyler, First off, if you don't want to spend $500 on the ozone, don't. Ozone is not a must, and it can be added later as well. However, Your spa experience will still be good - you will simply be adding a teaspoon or two of Dichlor each time you exit the spa, or using a floater or other method of keeping things clean and clear. Our dealership sells about half of our spas with ozone these days, but its not because I push them: there is another dealer in the area who makes a big push on Ozone so people come in my door thinking they must have it. As far as price goes - there is a real difference in what you get. There are some inexpensive units on the market which truly are poor performers. If you would like ozone but would like to pay less, you can ask your dealer to get you a Del Spa Eclipse. Looks like this: And can be ordered with the appropriate power cord to plug right into the HotSpring/Tiger River spas. You can order these online and install them yourself too. If you don't mind installing a new cell every year - which sell for around $60 to $70 each - you can get by for less up front. If you have to pay for labor to have these cells replaced forget it. But, its not a big job to install the cell, you could ask the dealer to do it the first time and watch. Once you see it done you will realize how easy it is. Also, if the unit fails after the one-year warranty, you'll be out less money... As to the unit which HotSpring installs: Del makes it for them, but doesn't sell it direct - though I have seen them for sale in Australia for some strange reason... But Del does offer it's new "Platinum Spa Eclipse" which looks a bit different and appears to use the same huge platinum cell which is 'rated for 15,000 hours.' Looks like this: But be aware - the Del Platinum unit ends up costing, well let's just say that I have seen it for sale at about the same price you mentioned above. You get what you pay for. One last item: none of these systems pay for themselves in chemical savings. Most people use MPS and a Silver Ion cartridge with ozone, only using chlorine as a shock once or twice per month. Those chemicals cost far more than simply using Dichlor. And if you do a Dichlor regimen correctly, it is very easy and will not have a heavy chlorine smell.

Shoppers: be aware that the long list of suggestions above are the opinions of a man who sells spas over the internet. In other words, as you read it keep in mind that he is simultaneously knocking other designs and making it sound as if his product is the only good one. Just a little info he forgot to mention. :-)

Well, that's interesting. When I did sell ozone for Non-Hotspring tubs, I have used the Delzone unit wich has the bulb serarate from the ballast, and it still stopped putting out ozone long before the bulb stopped lighting: about two years at most. Sorry the image doesn't line up better, but you can see the division: the part with the word "Delzone" is the ballast area, and there is a bulkhead separating it from the other chamber which has the light in it. Good design: you can replace whichever part you need to. I will have to look into this. Regardless, the cost of CD is dropping - I think they will replace UV.

Yes, there obviously IS a difference. I have a local dealer who puts 'free' ozone on every spa he sells, just because he knows I don't. I lose a few sales a year to the guy over it, but the people end up with an ozone which doesn't put out as much, and which will not run without the chip replacement. But they got their "Free Ozone."

Sorry I didn't catch this very good question earlier: The answer is twofold: the smaller Chip-type CD ozonators must have the chip replaced at about 9000 hours of operation, or when they stop glowing. This would include such units as the GEM, Del Eclipse, CalZone, and similar units. The HotSpring unit has a much bigger chamber which has a life expectancy of around ten years.

Yes Doc - that is so true! I have run into lots of people who have a glowing UV bulb which is ten years old and they claim that it is still making O3. Not. 9000 hours is typical, and at 24 hours per day that is just over a year.

Ditto.

There are many: Don't drink and dive (that was dive) - alchohol dialates all the same stuff as hot water, so drinking while soaking is not generally recommended. Having said that, I will say that I more of my customers do it than not. A single degree temperature change makes a huge difference. Try not to run your spa hotter than you need. I like Dichlor as a sanitizer. Cheap, easy, and works just about every time. If you don't want Chlorine, use Brilliance brand Bromine. One of the few ways to use bromine which actully isn't mostly chlorine anyway. If you have enough privacy, forgo the suits. They bring in stuff that your spa is better off without. If you don't have that much privacy, you have two choices: Sell tickets Have just one suit for the spa. Choose one suit for the spa, and just rinse it in clear water between uses. Also, air drying them makes them last longer, and if you do have to launder it, rinse it before using it in the tub.

I don't know how many responses you will get - please keep us posted if you do get some. I'm a dealer, but I cannot sell over the Internet. There are very few dealers who can. Most of us are here for two reasons: to help folks learn about the enjoyment of owning a tub, and to learn ourselves.

I don't like the fact that there is no reliable field test for ozone which a typical spa owner can perform. I have read posts on other forums where lab technicians had access to high-end equipment and they found very low amounts of ozone in the water on a HotSpring system - which will put out to about 750 ppm. Yet, most of our owners report rust colored stains near the return fitting - indicative of oxidation of metal in the water. And you can see an obvious reaction on the bottom of the cover and on the surface of the pillows in most tubs with a good ozone system. You can also smell the ozone if the system allows a buildup of ozone in the bathing area, and I have yet to find one which doesn't allow this to some degree - usually just when you first open the cover. As far as a noticable difference, I have had users on both side of the issue: some had a system inadvertantly disconnected by a service technician and they were on the phone in a couple of days demanding a callback because the spa water was so far from normal. After having the system brought back on line, they were happy to report the water and water-care returned to normal. Others have had the systems fail, they pulled the plug themselves and called in later to say they were not aware of any change in caring for their tub without it, so cancel the service call. I am sure that they were using a bit more chlorine, but since so many folks just toss in an unmeasured amount anyway, it is possible to change the dose from time to time and not even be aware of it. I personally had a spa in my backyard for nine months which had never had the ozone generator installed. The injector was there, the small bubbles where there, but the ozone smell never was. HotSpring has just put in a small fitting wich mixed the water one last time just before the end of the 'reaction chamber' which in their case IS a hunk of tubing about then to twelve feet long, and I thought it was just doing a better job of taking care of off-gassing than the previous year. But a serial number search and a service bulletin later revealed that they had given up on the fitting, and my spa was not so equipped. I finally opened the door and found out my delivery guys had never put the generator in - they put the injector in so they could fill and start the spa, meaning to send the generator home with my son for him to install, but they never did... I'm NOT saying I didn't notice any difference at all, but that I had no problem keeping the spa clear and safe with good 'ol Dichlor, all along thinking that the normal cover/pillow burning and smell had been designed out.

I say go for it. You will have to locate the leak, and that's most of the battle. The Moto will most likely have to be replaced as a unit, but that's less than $90 in most dealers, and it's a breeze to install. Get the tub up on blocks - lots of blocks - keep it well supported. Poke a few holes through the tough layer of foam which covers the bottom so you can spot were the water exits and start from there.

Ah. Now I can see why you go around attempting to slam this product all the time. You don't get it! Sorry Jim, but this spa is ETL listed using the ANSI/UL standard. It wouldn't be if it had unsafe suctions. Let me try once again to clear it up for you: having NO suctions in the bather area is far safer than having them at all, let alone many of them. And as for having one area of suction, you are again wrong: there are three or more inlets on that grey wall between the filter area and the spa area. The sliding door and two vents. BUT, waterflow into the filter area is strictly under the flow of gravity, not pump-driven. Shoppers: I and many others have tried to explain this simple fact to Jim over and over for years. Yet he keeps coming back and posting incorrect data trying to make this very safe and effective design look bad and his design look good. Next time you are in a HotSpring Portable Spa store, ask them to run a Grandee, Envoy or Vista (More powerful pumps for a better demonstration) and then put your hand in the filter area and TRY to get stuck on anything. Then take out one or all of the filters and try again. Finally, shut off the pumps and try to take out the standpipes. They are threaded in place but a thread lock is applied.

OK. Thank you Jim.

I don't know why I am getting into this: it always ends up in childish name-calling. However, since this time it was started by a poster who generally remains calm and has proven to have a keen grasp on the truth... Chris, as long as we are stirring up this hornet's nest, we might as well give our best shot out of the gate. HotSpring does NOT follow ANSI standards for suction fittings. HotSpring EXCEEDS the ANSI suggestions. They have NO suction fittings in the bathing area at all. NO suction fittings beats SOME suction fittings hands down when talking about safety. HS runs all the water through a group of filters, and those filters offer hudreds of planes, walls and so forth. They also are impossible to get stuck on. Even if you take out the filter, there is a tall plastic tube with hundreds of little holes all over it: again impossible to get stuck on. Now to make things work better and add yet another layer of safety, all of this is set into a separate box behind a floating weir. Oh - and the standpipes are glued in place, though you can remove them if you are very strong or have a tool in your hand. Children would never break the bond on them. Now, by comparison: there are many tubs out there which do not have a standpipe inside/under the filter. On these units, running the pumps with the filters out could cause a serious problem. But if you look at suction-related tragedies, they don't happen in Portable or Self-Contained tubs. They happen in pools, in-ground spas, and the huge majority of them happen because somebody had broken or removed a safety device, cover, grate or other important part of the system. Yes, there are some accidents which take place in pools/spas which were built before certain standards were in place, but those - again - are not portable self-contained tubs, they are usually home pools but especially commercial pools and spas which can have huge pumps plumbed to a SINGLE point of suction. For shoppers out there who are reading this and are suddenly concerned about a safety issue, let me say that simply sticking with a tub which is UL listed assures you of a safe suction system. ETL listing is the equal to UL since they use the very same ANSI/UL standard. To ease your mind, simply go to the ETL or UL website (HS uses ETL) and simply verify that the tub you are looking at is listed.

Always glad to offer an opinion. I know several good people who work at Beachcomber here in Southern Cal - they have a nice place here which they are hoping will be the point of major expansion into this market. I have toured this center, and looked very closely at the tubs. IMO: Good insulation - yes. Best insulation - no. They mount the equipment in a container outside of the spa, which allows them to fully insulate the fourth wall of the tub where others need to carve out a niche for the equipment to go. That is their reason for claiming 'best insulation.' They also claim that is makes the equipment quieter, but in my experience it is about the same. In their sales pitch they don't want to allow for the heat loss as a result of not having the equipment tucked up close to the tub like everyone else. So I think it's a wash - motors outside, but fourth wall fully insulated. The combination works fine: but I doubt that you would see a savings in dollars compared to a tub with the pumps in the cabinet. In fact, the "Pro Tech" feature costs more to ship and install, though this is generally built in to the prices you see. They have a lot of nice features, and are very comfortable for most folks. I get the impression they are trying very hard to become the biggest name in tubs.

I don't get it Jim - could you explain please?