Vermonter

Thanks for the response, Richard. The TA tested out at 100ppm and is supposed to be 120-150 according to the guidelines for my spa. It had been 120 ppm before I added the Ph decreaser. The Ph has been 7.8 or higher for a while, regardless of the decreaser I add. For my chlorine and shock regimen, I add 1 cap chlorine every other week and 1 cap non-chlorine shock every week. The spa has a vision cartridge (silver) and an ozone filter. I was told this would help lessen the need for sanitizers. Should I keep trying to bring the Ph down even if the TA will go lower than recommended. Should I add decreaser every other hour or every other day until it reads properly. Thanks. I am fascinated by your water maintenance. If you've had your tub since May and haven't had any problems with water quality, that's unreal. I know that the companies that manufacture the silver cartridges suggest low chlorine, but they usually recommend daily dosing with mps. How often do you soak and how many people usually soak? How long have you gone between water changes. Sorry to give you the 5th degree, but this is interesting. I forgot to ask what temperature the spa should be set at when I am away on business. I have been leaving it at 99 degrees all winter, 24/7 and adding sanitizers in between trips. I primarily use my hot tub on the weekends, so during the week I keep it down at 90 degrees... my (very basic) understanding is that the "operating temperature" for a hot tub is at least 85 degrees, so you definitely want to keep it above that... not sure if this makes sense or not- I've actually been really curious as to whether it uses more energy to heat from 90 back to 102 on the weekends, or to keep it at 101 or whatever all the time... logic dictates that it would save energy keeping it down, but I'm not sure. Anyone else? Tony

Very helpful, thank you! I started last night with the 2 oz. shock treatment, and will do so for the next few days, and see if things look better. I don't know how many fills have gone through the pre-filter, only one since I've had it (plus a couple of "topping offs"), and since it's only a year old, I would guess 3 or 4 more when the previous owners had it? And I will certainly run a de-scaling soloution when I next fill it, seems like a reasonable thing to do... is "Swirl Away" the name of a specific chemical? Brand name or product name? I'm looking forward to that time where it becomes easy!! I'm trying to keep my frustration level low, because I do understand that, as with most things, there is a learning curve. Tony

HAHA! Seems like that's pretty much where it's headed, doesn't it? And yeah, it does seem as if the quality of the strip would make a huge difference in the results... I'm just gonna get a kit (as soon as I use up all those damn strips... the things are expensive!

Fliter Cleanse is formulated with a detergent to remove oils and acids to remove mineral deposits. Since scale is an indication of water that is too high in calcium, I would imagine that it should be pretty effective. If you're also running into scale outside the filter, then I would suggest a dilute solution of muriatic acid. Omni, which has now switched to Simplicity has a great filter cleaner also. I maintaine several tubs in Vermont homes and scale and iron are a problem. The scale and if you have iron (most vermonters do) will chew up your Bromine also. Its working to remove the metals. Water tables and amounts of minerals changed dramatically this year in certain Vermont and NH areas. not sure why. Have you ever used a metal and scale remover in your tub? Richard is right, a tub your size should be shocked with 2 ounces of MPS and daily use by 2 people is heavy use. Yes, I have used a metal remover, not sure if it was for scale, too, or just metals... it was a used hot tub, and I think the scale that formed on the filters was from the previous owners (I noticed it before I had the thing running)... haven't noticed any additional scale build up since I've owned it, about 2 months now. I just switched out the filters for brand new ones, so I guess I'll know pretty soon if any of it is coming from my water... the hot tub came with this pre-filter thing which is supposed to filter out metals, but who knows? So, are you saying I should shock with 2 oz MPS every time I use it? I do tend to use it for long periods of time (like an hour or more at a go), with two of us in it, but only a couple of days a week (usually).... seems like a lot of shock (expensive, too!) but if it will make the thing work... Also, did you read my post about shocking with 1 oz of MPS after each use and then 8 oz 6% bleach once a week? Does the 2 oz. dosage take that into consideration? Thanks! Tony

Thank you again, Richard, for your patience and understanding. I'm glad you have some, because as you suggested, I'm running out! I hope you understand that my frustration was in no way directed towards you... on re-reading my last post, I could see it being construed as such. Not at all! Your help has been incredibly informative, not just your responses directly to me, but your posts all over this forum. Waterbear, the entire hot tub is exposed to sunlight (i.e. it's in a sunny location), but the water itself is rarely exposed to sunlight... it's covered all day, every day, and I almost always use it at night (or around dusk, I guess)... Tony

Yeah, it's so-so. I'm definitely going to get a test kit sooner than later anyway... the readings vary quite a bit, even when taken one right after the other. This one is a digital strip reader, though- I'm not sure if the one you were talking about is the same or not. There was a link posted somewhere on this site for a machine which was a bit more expensive- I think it was $100 to $150 US... drop in the bucket for you guys though The weakness of the digital strip reader is, of course, the strips. It is still better than trying to figure out what color is what on the strips by eyesight alone, though... so like I say, it's a toss up. I'd look into the more complex machine (wish I could help with the name) which someone was claiming was quite accurate. Good luck!! Tony

Okay, thanks again Richard for the good advice. Tony

First off, thanks for the recommendation, poolyeti... does it remove scale pretty well, or would I be better off using CLR spray, as I have read in another thread elsewhere on this forum? And now.... so, when the MPS instructions say "2 oz per week, or more often for heavy bather loads", that is basically a load of bull, no? I mean, what exactly do they consider a "light bather load"? 2 person hours per week? 3?? It drives me nuts that the manufacturers of these chemicals don't give more specific instructions... I mean, "heavy bather load" is rather vague, don't you think? Argh.... Well, I superchlorinated once again today, which I imagine will help... I'm considering this schedule: 1 oz MPS after each soak (which tend to be long soaks rather infrequently, probably around 4 to 6 hours a week over 2 days) , and 8 oz. 6% bleach once a week (perhaps after the weekend) ... what do you think? And so, you don't think that the problem could be not adding enough Bromine in the first place? Oh, and isn't 10.1 ppm Bromine plenty to be reactivated? I thought 2 to 4 ppm at a time was enough? Could you please explain to me why not? Thank you!! Tony

Is it my imagination, or did I read somewhere in another thread that with an ozonator, it's better to go with Bromine for your sanitizer? If so, why, and how much better? The reason I ask is I'm considering switching to the bleach method at my next fill (my warranty is already null anyway, since I bought the thing used and the warranty doesn't transfer), but I'm also considering getting my ozonator fixed and/or replacing it... so which way should I go here? Stick with the Br and fix the ozonator? Go with Cl and not fix it? Or Cl and ozonator both?? Tony

Thanks for the recommendation, Hillbilly.... I will definitely look into it. Now, for my update. It has been 4 days since my last confession... er, since I started this post. My Bromine levels are back to 0.0 ppm as of this morning, and they have slowly been dropping since I superchlorinated 5 days ago. I have only used the tub twice (on Saturday and Sunday), both days for about an hour each with my girlfriend (which means a total of 4 person-hours)... we both showered before getting in (yes, we used soap), and afterwards I shocked with 1 oz. of MPS each time. And yet, the level is back to zero. Oh, and I installed a BRAND NEW set of filters 4 days ago, so that should not be the problem. This must mean, don't you think, that I'm not introducing enough Br in the first place? It can't possibly be that dirty, this has been going on for a couple of weeks now, and I've superchlorinated 2 or 3 times in that time, and used nearly 2 lbs of MPS... what do you think?? Oh, my pH and TA are 7.6 and 81, respectively, also as of this morning (I am using a digital strip reader, which is definitely spotty, and will get a test kit as soon as I can, but I think the results are at least close to where the truth lies)... thanks again! One other thing (a bit off topic)... does anyone have a filter soak they strongly recommend? The one I used didn't get the scale off the old filters. Tony

Thanks for the info, guys... what I've learned, then, is: 1) More shock It really seemed like I was using too much already, but maybe I just let it get away from me... makes sense. 2) The best explanation for not putting tablets right into filter compartment I've heard- thanks a lot! and 3) Replace my ozonator. Hillbilly, do you have a particular model of ozonator you would recommend? Right now I have this one installed, so one that would fit in the spot where it came out of would be great. Richard, I will try shocking the hell out of it (actually, I just superchlorinated yesterday, and it seems pretty good (if a little high- around 4ppm FC) when I checked this morning)... like I said, I switched out the filters for new ones yesterday, as well, which will hopefully help somewhat. It looks clearer already, which is a good sign. Tony

Thanks again for the help, Richard- So, the tablets are 86.4% BCDMH and 8.6% DBDMH, and provide 66.8% Available Bromine and 25.4% available Chlorine. It says on the back of the container "Each tablet weighs approx. .8 oz (23 grams)". The feeder holds around 4 tablets, maybe 5, and this lasts around 2 weeks, I'd say. I've been messing with it quite a bit though (opening and closing it.... I know, not very empirical) so it's hard to say. The spa manufacturer suggests "placing 1 or 2 tablets directly in the filter housing once a week." Do you think I should just put 2 in there and call it a day? Doesn't seem very accurate, but at least I should get some results, I should think. Tony

Hello again, Forum.... I'm still having problems keeping my Bromine levels up, for some reason. After shocking with MPS, the levels seem to come up to normal (sometimes very high, actually), but by the next morning, they are back to zero again. This has been happening consistently for several weeks now. I've cleaned my filters (a few times, actually)... I'm using the large bromine tablets (approx. 23g each), and it says on the container that they are "slow dissolving". I've been using one of those floating feeders, and have had the thing pretty much cranked all the way open, which doesn't raise the levels until I use the MPS (this is when the levels are really high, of course), but still back to 0 by the next morning. I've just changed the filters out for new ones, but I doubt this will have any great effect. One thought I've had... is it possible that my bromide reserve has been used up from too much MPS? I added 2 oz to 350 gallons at the time I first filled it, which was around Thanksgiving (1 month ago-ish) A related note.. I found out recently that my ozonator chip is worn out (could be the whole unit, I suppose, but hoping it's the chip)... I bought the thing used, and it's about a year old. I read on one of the threads that the ozonator helps to keep the Bromine "free"... does it make it much easier to maintain with the ozonator working? I've been wondering if it's worth the $36 plus shipping to get a new chip, starting to think maybe it is... Any help is, as usual, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance... Tony

Thanks again, Richard, that makes sense... How about the cover staying off for an hour, even though it's only for 1 Tb shock? How necessary is this step? I mean, on "warmer" (i.e. 20 to 30 F) days, I have no problem doing this, but on those really cold nights, can I get away with shocking and leaving the cover on? I understand this has something to do with allowing gases to escape (please correct me if I'm wrong), but does it need to be done every time? Once again, thanks in advance for the info! Tony

Hello again, forum!! For starters, I've been a member of this forum for about a week now, and I must say I have found it hugely informative... just randomly clicking on forum topics has taught me quite a lot... thank you, contributors!! Now, for my question: my spa guy told me I should add a tablespoon of non-Cl shock every time I get out of the tub, and he even gave me a formula to follow: if it has been more than 1/2 "man hour" in the tub (2 ppl for 15 minutes, 1 person for 1/2 hour), then I should do this. Does this make sense? And, if I'm adding only 1 Tb, do I still need to leave the cover off for 1 hour? It's been -10 F here the last few nights, and an hour without the cover seems a bit extreme. Really, I'm also just trying to get a feel for the honesty/knowledgeability level of my spa guy... any answers you guys can give to this would be great! (BTW, it's a 350 gallon tub on Bromine, with a currently non-functioning Ozonator) Thanks!! Tony

I just ordered basically the same thing (different maker)... the AquaChek TruTest I'll give a review when it arrives.

I know how you feel... my Total Calcium Hardness was "0" when I brought my water to be tested when I first filled my hot tub. The guy seemed a bit surprised (but not alarmed, at least)... should be a good thing, right? Just means your water is just "water"

I've tried opening it up all the way, no go. And it is one of those that opens up quite a bit. The thing is, it was fine up until last week. Actually, as of right now, I've just dropped 2 tablets into the filter housing (which, believe it or not, it was the instructions that came with the spa recommends doing), we'll see if that helps. Also, as of this morning, the strips were still registering 3ppm Br, although this could be residual Cl from the shock treatment I gave it yesterday. Should have a better idea tomorrow morning. BTW, Happy New Year everyone!! Thanks for the info, I've ordered some kind of soak already, not sure what the active ingredient is. It seems to me that by soaking for as long as necessary they are bound to come cleaner than just spraying, but we'll see.

Well. It's been 3 days since my hot tub has been used... the new filters still haven't arrived, so I am still running the old (and probably quite dirty) ones. Each morning since my last post, I've checked the Bromine levels, and they read as 0ppm. I've then added non-Cl shock each time, and it brings the levels back up to 3 to 6 ppm, and then the following morning, back to 0. Three consecutive days of these results (including today)... Today I added another 8 oz. dose of 6% bleach in hopes this will somehow rectify the problem. I mean, that water can't have been that dirty, can it? I do shower, after all, as do the other people who are using it! Do you guys think it could just be the filters somehow?? Oh and, it does seem that the chip for the ozonator has burned out... but even still, that much Br shouldn't be oxidizing even without use, should it?

Hey thanks a lot, you two... I actually was able to string together a couple of different posts and came up with an 8 oz. dose of 6% bleach (I'm sure you were involved in the mathematics somehow, Richard)... I'll check it again tomorrow and see where things stand. And also, thanks for the filter advice... any particular soaking product you would recommend? I have my own septic system, so something a little more environmentally friendly would be great! Any suggestions on when to replace filters? Or should they last "forever"?? Also, it seems my Ozonator is on the fritz, which may be part of the problem. It's a Del Ozone SpaEclipse ECS-1, guess I have to replace the chip or some such business. Like I said, I have a ton of questions (it's in my DNA, I think), not sure if I should use separate threads for each or what, hopefully someday I can provide some answers!! In the meantime, thanks for the help... Tony

Hi folks, new to hot tub ownership and new to this forum. I spent about 2 hours browsing around the forum last night, and I think I now have even more questions than I started with!! First of all, I have a 350 gallon Gulf Coast spa with an ozonator... I bought it "used" (about 1 year old) just after Thanksgiving, so I'm still really trying to get the hang of the thing. I've managed to get most of my indicators in the right range, which took a little time but I got there. What with the family having been here for Christmas and all, my water is looking a bit green. I am using Bromine in a floating feeder. It seems to me I have been having to add an excessive amount of non-chlorine shock, far too often, in order to get the Bromine to register on the test strips at all... almost 2 oz. every time I use it. In the last couple of days, however, I have added a total of 4 oz., which seems to bring it back to 3 ppm briefly, but then by the next morning I am registering at 0ppm again. This is where things stand this morning, registering on the strip as 0ppm. I read somewhere either in this forum or somewhere else that it may sometimes be necessary to shock with chlorine shock when things have gotten away from you, even if I am using bromine. My question is: can I use bleach? If so, how much? And are there any special procedures (leave the cover off, etc.?) How long do I have to wait before using it again? I think part of the problem may be my filters. I have cleaned them twice now with only a jet of water from a garden hose (very cold water at that, this being Vermont!) Unfortunately, I don't have a dishwasher, which seems to be the easiest way to go. How often do filters need to be replaced? I think the previous owner may have had pretty hard water, as there was some sign of scale on the filters and in the filter compartment. And what is the best method, barring a dishwasher, to clean filters? I've ordered a second set, but I would love to get the old ones looking new again, if possible, so I can switch them out the next time. Well, that's probably enough for now. Oh, one more: anyone ever use a home water test computer, the kind you put the strip into, and are they worth the $50 to get one? Thanks a lot in advance to any help you guys can give me!!