Vermonter
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Posts posted by Vermonter
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I was afraid of that.... well, perhaps I'll buy some more Hardness Increaser, and give it one more go, but I'm pretty sure the stupid pH Stabilizer I used is going to prevent me from increasing it without refilling... damn it. Well, thanks again and as usual for the advice....
Tony
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Well, the topic title pretty much summed it up... as some of you may remember (Hillbilly, Richard), I was having a problem with my Calcium precipitating out after adding a pH stabilizer (never again!)... It was at 40 a few weeks ago, but I tested it again today, and it was at 0 (drop-based kit, titration-type) My question is, is this going to do any damage to my spa? Should I drain and refill? I'm not scheduled for a refill until August, and would love not to have to do it early... what do you guys think?
Tony
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It's clear to me that bromine has the well known drawback of having a fishy smell. I just want some clarification however what specifically causes it, being that the smell it not always there, but there is always Br in the water.
What I observe is:
After starting the spa, the smell is the strongest, over two weeks the smell will dissipate and will not return unless I add Boost [br] sometimes there is a hint of the smell. Sometimes you can go in the tub during this time and smell nothing until after an hour or so of soaking.
1. Is there a reaction that releases something?
2. Why isn't the smell always there?
Mostly I don't find the need for Boost since Br level is pretty well maintained using just the skimmer and shock.
3. Do I need to add Br Boost if my chemical balance is perfect?
Hmm, that's a new one to me... I've been using Br for almost a year now, and have never noticed a "fishy" smell... Maybe it is the Boost itself that is causing this?
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I have seen, at my dealer, a neat idea. Its a "filter" that fits on the end of the garden hose. Has all the nice marketing stuff about cutting down on post-fill chemicals.
I live in the city, so its not overly harsh metals like a well may be. But, I'm sure its not good quality spring water either.
Has anyone tried a "pre-filter" (goes on the end of a garden hose) and found the post-fill chemical balancing is easier with it, than without ?
Here is one place that shows the product, this one is $49 and can be used multiple times. I've see others from $39 down to $19. Just a reference: http://www.pacificsands.biz/html/spa_pre-filter.html
Here is a $19 variety: http://www.hottubworks.com/cgi-bin/commerc...p;preadd=action
Let me know if its worked for you ! I need to refill later this week and may get one, if there is good feedback here.
I use one, and my Fe and Cu tests are negative, however, I'm not sure if there is any in my water to begin with.
I've asked on this forum, and have been told that they are effective, however the useful life varies from model to model. I think they are worth the cost... be aware that it will take longer to fill your tub, due to the filter's restriction of water flow. -
Jaime,
There is only one effective way to lower the pH and that is to drive out carbon dioxide out of the water. You do that by lowering the pH to around 7.0 or 7.2 and then aerate the water while periodically adding acid to keep the pH low. The process is described in this post. You only have to lower your TA if you find that the pH tends to rise and that you are frequently having to add acid. To lower the TA it will take the same amount of acid no matter what method you use or if you just live with it over time as the TA will slowly drop -- the procedure just accelerates the process.
Others can help you with shelf life of various products.
Richard
I believe he meant to say "There is only one effective way to lower the TA", but I could be wrong... seems to make more sense that way.
Tony
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So I got a drop-based kit last week sometime, and got the following results: TA 60, pH 7.5, CH 40 and Br 2. Pretty good right? So what do I do but mess with it this weekend... trying to get the TA up to around 80. I first raised the TA up to 80 with Alk Up, then brought the pH down with pH decreaser, and by the time I got the pH back into the normal range, the TA was at 40.
So I tried bringing the TA way up to around 130, and after adding ounce upon ounce of acid, got the pH to 7.8... and the TA is back to 50. And that's where things stand now... so my question is, is 50 too low for the TA? I just don't want to spend the rest of my Sunday getting the pH back down (not to mention I'm just about out of acid) and I seem to be fighting a losing battle for some reason anyway. Could that be because of the pH stabilizer? Where should I go from here? Thanks in advance,
Tony
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Hmm, just and added thought to this... when adding a scale remover with the intent to refill, say, the next day, does it make sense to take your filters out completely for that period (overnight, for instance), so that the scale that's removed doesn't end up in the filters? Or is there some reason I haven't heard about whereas it's a terrible idea to run water w/o filters in place?
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Hmm, can't seem to find a web site for Omni products, do you have a link handy? And, new filters!? These WERE new filters! Argh! Stupid pH balancer, what garbage! Well, wish me luck, perhaps with some perseverance I will be able to save them. Also, I run a product called Shimmer Plus made by Blue Wave which is a clarifier, but also claims to be a "concentrated stain and scale preventer which inhibits stain and scaling in spas and prevents calcium buildup on spa surfaces." It calls for 1 oz. once a week... does this sound right? Thanks again!
Tony
P.S. Just looked at the bottle of pH balancer I used, and it says not to use in cases where the CH is higher than 350 ppm, which certainly was not the case for me (I was around 200-ish)... think I can sue them for a new set of filters?
P.P.S. Finally got a drop-based test kit, and ran some numbers today... CH was around 40 (low, as we expected), TA at 90, pH around 7.5, and Br at 2.0... everything seems pretty decent, except that low CH number. Where should I keep my other values until the next fill? It seems to me the pH and TA should be kept towards the high side of OK to compensate for low CH... is this right thinking, or am I over-analyzing?
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Okay, so, I found all that extra calcium... it was in my filters. Rinsed it all out, seemed mostly to be loose, not scaled yet. At least mostly, there was a little scaling on the filters.
However, during my soak today, I got a "rHNf" error message, which means in my case something to the effect of "no flow"... I figure it must be the scaling clogging the filters. Any recommendations for a filter soak that removes scaling? I remember someone recommending CLR ("as seen on TV") on another thread, but I would prefer a soak, as 1) I'm lazy, and 2) I'm thorough. That would be great! Thanks,
Tony
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Well, since adding the 2 oz of hardness up yesterday evening, and checking again today, it was registering on my strips at 100 ppm, so maybe I should quit while I'm ahead... I actually only added the pH buffer because my girlfriend accidentally bought it for me instead of pH up, so I said what the hell, I've got it, might as well use it. That'll learn me.
In the meantime, what am I supposed to do about this? Is it going to be real bad for the spa to have a low TH level for the next few months? Everything else is in proper range, I'm going to bring a sample to the dealer next week just to recheck everything, but how worried should I be if the TH is at, say, 89 or whatever?
And no, Richard, I haven't checked the filters, though I will do that tomorrow for sure. Not that it will do much for my current situation, I suppose, but force me to clean my filters.
I mean, is this enough of a problem that I should drain (or partially drain) and refill?Tony
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Hello Richard,
It doesn't say on the canister which kind of Calcium it is, but either way I don't want to add any more, correct? I was shooting for 250 because both the tub manufacturer and the chemical manufacturer say the the target range is between 150 and 400, so I was shooting for the low-middle of that range. No good, I guess.
I am using Bromine, and am planning on buying the T-2106 sometime this month.
Oh, and by the way, my CH apparently starts out around 0, this according to the dealer I brought a water sample to.
Thanks again,
Tony
First, your tub maker and chemical company suggest 200-400 because the new pumps have ceramic disks in them and they want to make sure that the CH is high enough to prevent trying to "pull it out"of the disks.
Second, check the test strips exp. date, have they been in direct sunlight or places that temp changes a lot. Has any water/moisture got into them or do you put your fingers in the canister to grab a strip? The least little contaniment will effect the strips and it seems as if the CH test is the first to go wacky.
Thanks again for all the help... Let's see, exp. date is 04/2009, no direct sunlight (at least on my watch), and I keep them in my basement, which is cool and fairly dry... no dipping of fingers into canister, they actually have a flip-top lid so you kind of shake out one at a time. Also, one of those little moisture absorbing silica packets. None-the-less, it's good to know that the CH is the one to go, because that would at least offer up a possible explanation for the problem.
It is still reading as "0" on these strips, btw, and I've just attributed it to the strips at this point. Should I be more concerned? Should I get a sample to a spa dealer for verification? I live in Vermont (in case you couldn't tell from my handle), which means everything is an hour away, otherwise I wouldn't ask that question, I'd just do it. Is there any reason after adding 12 oz of hardness increaser (whichever the type) that it would actually still be low? Is there anything else which can interfere with the addition of CH to the tub? It seems CH is the one element of water chemistry which is fairly independent of the others... is this a correct assumption? Sorry for the string of questions, my curiosity tends to get the better of me. Thanks for whatever help you can provide....
Tony
We have been having the opposite problems with test strips here, they read 400 when the level is only 109.
I would bring a sample to a dealer when you are going their direction, just keep you PH in check untill you do and you should have no issues. What part of Vermont are you in? Usually most of Vermont has fairly hard water to begin with (we are on the vermont border, next to Springfield) we have many customers from Vermont and usually most of them do not need calcium hardness.
There should be some reading with that amount of hardness added. We have zero here on town water, it takes me 24 ounces to bring my 540 gallon tub up to 200ppm. I would not add more untill you have it tested because if you get it to high the only way to decrease it is to partially drain the tub.
I'm heading that direction today, so I will do that. The pH hasn't been an issue, nor the TA, so at least there's that. I live in Southern VT, between Stratton and Mt. Snow, about 45 minutes away from Brattleboro. The initial hardness seems to be at or very near 0 here, well water, deep well, don't know what the surrounding rock is (I would guess granite, but not certain.) I will let you know what the dealer finds, just for curiosity's sake.
Tony
We have many customers in that area, specially for service calls. My husband is up there today doing a couple of repairs. Let me know what you find out, your direction of Vermonet does not seem to have as bad of water issues as saxtons river and north. Major iron and lime in the water for those people. Good luck!
Okay, so this is what I got from the dealer... TH was 39, even after, what was it I said, 12 oz hardness increaser. So my strips at the very least agree with their strips. pH was a little low (7.1), and TA was 77, which, of course, they said was low but as I know from this forum is just fine. Also, she checked for Cu and Fe, which were both at 0, which is great.
I have since added 2 oz. of hardness increaser, this morning, just checked it again (5 pm) and it still registers 0 on my strips. I am getting ready to dump the rest of the bottle in there, as we speak, which is only about 3 oz. at this point. What in the *?!@ is going on here? Now I'm up to 14 oz and still registering low... I ask again, is there anything which can interfere with Ca absorption? The only difference between this fill an the last, as far as I can see, is that I added a pH stabilizer this time... could this be the problem? If so, where exactly is all that extra Ca going? I don't see any precipitate and my water is still nice and clear... hmmm....
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Hello Richard,
It doesn't say on the canister which kind of Calcium it is, but either way I don't want to add any more, correct? I was shooting for 250 because both the tub manufacturer and the chemical manufacturer say the the target range is between 150 and 400, so I was shooting for the low-middle of that range. No good, I guess.
I am using Bromine, and am planning on buying the T-2106 sometime this month.
Oh, and by the way, my CH apparently starts out around 0, this according to the dealer I brought a water sample to.
Thanks again,
Tony
First, your tub maker and chemical company suggest 200-400 because the new pumps have ceramic disks in them and they want to make sure that the CH is high enough to prevent trying to "pull it out"of the disks.
Second, check the test strips exp. date, have they been in direct sunlight or places that temp changes a lot. Has any water/moisture got into them or do you put your fingers in the canister to grab a strip? The least little contaniment will effect the strips and it seems as if the CH test is the first to go wacky.
Thanks again for all the help... Let's see, exp. date is 04/2009, no direct sunlight (at least on my watch), and I keep them in my basement, which is cool and fairly dry... no dipping of fingers into canister, they actually have a flip-top lid so you kind of shake out one at a time. Also, one of those little moisture absorbing silica packets. None-the-less, it's good to know that the CH is the one to go, because that would at least offer up a possible explanation for the problem.
It is still reading as "0" on these strips, btw, and I've just attributed it to the strips at this point. Should I be more concerned? Should I get a sample to a spa dealer for verification? I live in Vermont (in case you couldn't tell from my handle), which means everything is an hour away, otherwise I wouldn't ask that question, I'd just do it. Is there any reason after adding 12 oz of hardness increaser (whichever the type) that it would actually still be low? Is there anything else which can interfere with the addition of CH to the tub? It seems CH is the one element of water chemistry which is fairly independent of the others... is this a correct assumption? Sorry for the string of questions, my curiosity tends to get the better of me. Thanks for whatever help you can provide....
Tony
We have been having the opposite problems with test strips here, they read 400 when the level is only 109.
I would bring a sample to a dealer when you are going their direction, just keep you PH in check untill you do and you should have no issues. What part of Vermont are you in? Usually most of Vermont has fairly hard water to begin with (we are on the vermont border, next to Springfield) we have many customers from Vermont and usually most of them do not need calcium hardness.
There should be some reading with that amount of hardness added. We have zero here on town water, it takes me 24 ounces to bring my 540 gallon tub up to 200ppm. I would not add more untill you have it tested because if you get it to high the only way to decrease it is to partially drain the tub.
I'm heading that direction today, so I will do that. The pH hasn't been an issue, nor the TA, so at least there's that. I live in Southern VT, between Stratton and Mt. Snow, about 45 minutes away from Brattleboro. The initial hardness seems to be at or very near 0 here, well water, deep well, don't know what the surrounding rock is (I would guess granite, but not certain.) I will let you know what the dealer finds, just for curiosity's sake.
Tony
We have many customers in that area, specially for service calls. My husband is up there today doing a couple of repairs. Let me know what you find out, your direction of Vermonet does not seem to have as bad of water issues as saxtons river and north. Major iron and lime in the water for those people. Good luck!
Okay, so this is what I got from the dealer... TH was 39, even after, what was it I said, 12 oz hardness increaser. So my strips at the very least agree with their strips. pH was a little low (7.1), and TA was 77, which, of course, they said was low but as I know from this forum is just fine. Also, she checked for Cu and Fe, which were both at 0, which is great.
I have since added 2 oz. of hardness increaser, this morning, just checked it again (5 pm) and it still registers 0 on my strips. I am getting ready to dump the rest of the bottle in there, as we speak, which is only about 3 oz. at this point. What in the *?!@ is going on here? Now I'm up to 14 oz and still registering low... I ask again, is there anything which can interfere with Ca absorption? The only difference between this fill an the last, as far as I can see, is that I added a pH stabilizer this time... could this be the problem? If so, where exactly is all that extra Ca going? I don't see any precipitate and my water is still nice and clear... hmmm....
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Hello Richard,
It doesn't say on the canister which kind of Calcium it is, but either way I don't want to add any more, correct? I was shooting for 250 because both the tub manufacturer and the chemical manufacturer say the the target range is between 150 and 400, so I was shooting for the low-middle of that range. No good, I guess.
I am using Bromine, and am planning on buying the T-2106 sometime this month.
Oh, and by the way, my CH apparently starts out around 0, this according to the dealer I brought a water sample to.
Thanks again,
Tony
First, your tub maker and chemical company suggest 200-400 because the new pumps have ceramic disks in them and they want to make sure that the CH is high enough to prevent trying to "pull it out"of the disks.
Second, check the test strips exp. date, have they been in direct sunlight or places that temp changes a lot. Has any water/moisture got into them or do you put your fingers in the canister to grab a strip? The least little contaniment will effect the strips and it seems as if the CH test is the first to go wacky.
Thanks again for all the help... Let's see, exp. date is 04/2009, no direct sunlight (at least on my watch), and I keep them in my basement, which is cool and fairly dry... no dipping of fingers into canister, they actually have a flip-top lid so you kind of shake out one at a time. Also, one of those little moisture absorbing silica packets. None-the-less, it's good to know that the CH is the one to go, because that would at least offer up a possible explanation for the problem.
It is still reading as "0" on these strips, btw, and I've just attributed it to the strips at this point. Should I be more concerned? Should I get a sample to a spa dealer for verification? I live in Vermont (in case you couldn't tell from my handle), which means everything is an hour away, otherwise I wouldn't ask that question, I'd just do it. Is there any reason after adding 12 oz of hardness increaser (whichever the type) that it would actually still be low? Is there anything else which can interfere with the addition of CH to the tub? It seems CH is the one element of water chemistry which is fairly independent of the others... is this a correct assumption? Sorry for the string of questions, my curiosity tends to get the better of me. Thanks for whatever help you can provide....
Tony
We have been having the opposite problems with test strips here, they read 400 when the level is only 109.
I would bring a sample to a dealer when you are going their direction, just keep you PH in check untill you do and you should have no issues. What part of Vermont are you in? Usually most of Vermont has fairly hard water to begin with (we are on the vermont border, next to Springfield) we have many customers from Vermont and usually most of them do not need calcium hardness.
There should be some reading with that amount of hardness added. We have zero here on town water, it takes me 24 ounces to bring my 540 gallon tub up to 200ppm. I would not add more untill you have it tested because if you get it to high the only way to decrease it is to partially drain the tub.
I'm heading that direction today, so I will do that. The pH hasn't been an issue, nor the TA, so at least there's that. I live in Southern VT, between Stratton and Mt. Snow, about 45 minutes away from Brattleboro. The initial hardness seems to be at or very near 0 here, well water, deep well, don't know what the surrounding rock is (I would guess granite, but not certain.) I will let you know what the dealer finds, just for curiosity's sake.
Tony
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Hello Richard,
It doesn't say on the canister which kind of Calcium it is, but either way I don't want to add any more, correct? I was shooting for 250 because both the tub manufacturer and the chemical manufacturer say the the target range is between 150 and 400, so I was shooting for the low-middle of that range. No good, I guess.
I am using Bromine, and am planning on buying the T-2106 sometime this month.
Oh, and by the way, my CH apparently starts out around 0, this according to the dealer I brought a water sample to.
Thanks again,
Tony
First, your tub maker and chemical company suggest 200-400 because the new pumps have ceramic disks in them and they want to make sure that the CH is high enough to prevent trying to "pull it out"of the disks.
Second, check the test strips exp. date, have they been in direct sunlight or places that temp changes a lot. Has any water/moisture got into them or do you put your fingers in the canister to grab a strip? The least little contaniment will effect the strips and it seems as if the CH test is the first to go wacky.
Thanks again for all the help... Let's see, exp. date is 04/2009, no direct sunlight (at least on my watch), and I keep them in my basement, which is cool and fairly dry... no dipping of fingers into canister, they actually have a flip-top lid so you kind of shake out one at a time. Also, one of those little moisture absorbing silica packets. None-the-less, it's good to know that the CH is the one to go, because that would at least offer up a possible explanation for the problem.
It is still reading as "0" on these strips, btw, and I've just attributed it to the strips at this point. Should I be more concerned? Should I get a sample to a spa dealer for verification? I live in Vermont (in case you couldn't tell from my handle), which means everything is an hour away, otherwise I wouldn't ask that question, I'd just do it. Is there any reason after adding 12 oz of hardness increaser (whichever the type) that it would actually still be low? Is there anything else which can interfere with the addition of CH to the tub? It seems CH is the one element of water chemistry which is fairly independent of the others... is this a correct assumption? Sorry for the string of questions, my curiosity tends to get the better of me. Thanks for whatever help you can provide....
Tony
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Hello Richard,
It doesn't say on the canister which kind of Calcium it is, but either way I don't want to add any more, correct? I was shooting for 250 because both the tub manufacturer and the chemical manufacturer say the the target range is between 150 and 400, so I was shooting for the low-middle of that range. No good, I guess.
I am using Bromine, and am planning on buying the T-2106 sometime this month.
Oh, and by the way, my CH apparently starts out around 0, this according to the dealer I brought a water sample to.
Thanks again,
Tony
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Just thought I'd add my two cents as well, although it's pretty much the same as above... the first few weeks on my first fill (I'm only on my second now, but don't ask me how long that first one lasted
) were rather frustrating, although not doing it right at first didn't help. (Not adding enough Bromine, for instance, and having to deal with the green water syndrome for a bit)... That was before I found this forum. After, oh about a month of fiddling, it was much like Whoneeds said... throw in some baking soda every couple of weeks, refill the floater, and I find I need to shock after every use or there is no Bromine left the next day. I think I just sweat a lot.Can't say anything for the Chlorine method, as I haven't tried it, but with Bromine, it's pretty much a breeze. And you, unlike myself, found this forum before setting up your tub, which is a big step in the right direction.
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Is it possible for my calcium hardness level to be too low after adding 12 oz of Calcium Chloride to my 350 gallon spa? This is on a new fill (about a week old now I guess)... it seems to me that 12 oz is about the amount I added on my last (first) fill and that got me into the 250 ppm range... I am still using strips to test (I know, the K-2106, it's been a long hard winter, I'm working on it
) and I'm wondering if something else could be interfering with my readings? Mathematically, this should at least register on the strips (the increments are 0, 100, 250, etc.... it's definitely reading as "0") I'm using the same brand Hardness Increaser I used the last time. Should I keep adding more or is something wrong here? Oh, one more thing.... It was registering as 100 ppm, but I had to add some acid to bring the pH down, and that's when I first noticed it reading as 0... then again, I could have just not been paying attention to that pad for the past few reads. Thanks in advance for the help,Tony
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Anyone have any ideas?
Yup... Unless you put a kW meter on the spa and record how many kW it uses over a period of time, all you're doing is guessing at how much power it's actually using. A difference in power consumption between this year and last year only indicates, well, a difference in power consumption for your entire house.
There are many things besides a spa that can increase your power consumption..... Some other appliance that's malfunctioning (like the extra fridge in the garage), a new TV that has a high power stand-by mode, a new computer that's left on all the time, a well pump with a leak, colder ambient temperature (the average temp is a poor indication of expected power use), or any other of probably 100+ things.
It's easy to blame the spa, but all the things I've mentioned above have been discovered to be the real power hogs over the years, and eventually reported on various message boards.
While this may be true, in my case, I haven't added anything but the spa in the last year... and the power consumption for every month over the last year is almost exactly the same: 750 kwh/ month. Doesn't go down in the summer, or up in the winter, it's pretty steady (I don't use A/C or electric heat, or even a drier for that matter, so there's not much to change season to season, except perhaps lighting, and I use CF's in all my fixtures)... so I'm pretty darn sure the increase to 1790 kwh is entirely the hot tub.
So, can I just add some foam panel insulation to it?
Thanks,
Tony
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I have a Gulf Coast LX-7000, just got my first full month's electric bill.... for the month, my electric bill jumped above my average over the last year of 750 kwh/ month, to 1793 kwh/month... ouch. At 12 cents per kwh, this is an increase of about $120 for the month. The average temperature, according to my bill (it lists this on the bill in VT) was 24 degrees. I think I'd like to take the side panels off and add some 1" (or whatever will fit) foam board insulation. Are there any reasons I should not do this?
Tony
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The idea behind this is that the outside air is so much colder that it drops from 90 to 89 just as quickly as 102 to 101, the the computer is requesting at the same intervals. It is the intial heating of the water that takes the most juice. I have an economy mode on my tub. It allows me to have the tub only come on to heat dueing filter cycles. This happens 2x per day. My tub drops about 3-4 degrees between filter cycles. Having this on has made no difference in my electric bill as of yet. I have tried it several different times in the past 3 years at different outside temps. Maybe it is because my tub is so well insulated that I do not lose much heat I am not sure, but like I said before, our biggest concern in this area is the power going out in fridgid weather and having the tubs that much closer to freezing, specially where alot of these are second homes and no one is there to notice for a week. I would love to hear from someone in the electrical department too besides my dad, anyone out there??
Hmm, I guess... my hot tub is not so well insulated though (my first electric bill, from December, added some ungodly amount... something like $150, though I think I've blocked out the exact number)... so I feel like anything I can do is bound to help... I think it would be one thing if I was turning it down to 90 every night, and back up to 102 the next day, but when it's at 90 for 5 days in a row, then 102 for 2 or 3, it just seems like it can't hurt. The power outage part, however, certainly has crossed my mind
Especially since we've had a couple so far this winter...Tony
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Waterbear-
Nope, not testing right after shocking... it was about 18 hours later, actually. However, the sanitizer levels were fairly high (somewhere around 5.6ppm TC, which is actually Br in this case, so 12.3-ish ppm TB)... by the way, my total hardness readings are right where they should be (on the low side of normal, around 250 ppm), if that helps figure things out. I actually had to add about 10oz. of hardness up when I filled my tub, as it was reading 0ppm (this at the dealer and according to my strips)... Oh, and I'm not using a test kit (yes, yes, I'm going to buy one)
using a digital strip reader, and regular strips as a "back up", both read around 8.0 pH, and TA down somewhere around 100.Tony
First of all, total hardness is a bogus reading which is one reason why strips are not that useful. You are interested in calcium harndess since calcium is what causes scale deposits. Total hardness is a combination of calcium and magnesium hardness. Magnesium does not produce scale.
How important high CH is depends mostly on the material your tub is made of. Acrylic and fiberglass tubs only really need around 150 ppm CH and that is really mostly because hard water has less of a tendency to foam then soft water. A plaster spa or one with grouted tilework would need a higher CH, usually between 200-400 to protect the plaster from surface damage. If you are worried about metal parts such as your heat exchanger, pH is the main factor in whether they will suffer any corrosion or not. Just make sure to keep yours above 7.2 at all times.
High sanitizer levels will interfere with pH testing. Levels above about 10 ppm will cause the pH to read high. I would be interested in knowing what your pH reads with a drop based test when the sanitizer levls are within normal range (say about 4-6 ppm total bromine, not free bromine, as tested with either OTO or DPD testing). If your total bromine is above about 10 ppm then I would look at the pH readigs you are getting as suspect.
You can actually get much more accurate sanitizer and pH readings from a $7 Taylor K-1000 pH/OTO test kit for these two measurements then you can from strips in a $600 strip scanner. At least it would get two of your measurments more under control. IMHO, the best testkit for a bromine system for home use is a Taylor K-2106. It really does make water balancing so much easier and it's much easier to read than strips. ( and no guessing as to whether the TA is closer to the 80 ppm or the 120 ppm block. Strips just don't have the precision needed for balancing water.)
Thanks for your time, once again. Do you have a link for the Taylor K-2106? I saw in another post of yours a link for the Cl based kit, went to that site, and couldn't find the 2106... if you have a link handy, that would be great.
Now, since I know for a fact my TH was 0 ppm (or darn near) when I filled the tub, and all I added was Calcium Carbonate (I think that's what it is, right? Anyway, the Ca-based TH raiser), then I know that my TH is entirely Ca-based... so... at least I have that going for me
The strips have to be reading only Ca on the hardness pad, correct? That's the only one that has remained constant since I filled the thing, so please don't tell me I have to worry about that one, too!! Also, I agree about the accuracy issues, even with the strip reader... the TA tends to be all over the place, even on back-to-back reads, but for whatever reason the pH seems to be, if not accurate (since I have no baseline to compare, I guess), at least consistent. In other words, two back to back readings tend to get the same pH numbers, while the TC and TA readings tend to be a bit more hit or miss.
That being said... I added 8 oz. pH down, and the last reading I took was pH of 7.4 and TA of 119, TC of 3.2 ... I almost added another 4 oz of pH down just to get the TA down a little more, and I stopped myself at the last second, thinking: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!
Tony
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Also, new problem for me: my pH just seems to like to "hang out" at 8.0, maybe a little lower (7.7 to 7.9 at the lowest)... no matter how much acid I add (I've added an entire quart in the past few days), it always seems to end up there again.... my TA has been on the low side of the normal range (somewhere in the low 80's). Richard has told me that MPS will lower my pH... my question is: how bad is this? Is it going to damage my equipment very quickly, or should I just wait for the MPS and Br to bring the level down to an acceptable range?
Tony
what we have learned is that it does not save alot to turn the tub down much.(my dad worked foe PSNH) It takes the same amount of electricity to keep a tub maintained at 102 than at 90. the tub senses the heat has dropped 1 degree, be it to 89 or 101 and turns the heat on to bring it back up. takes the same electricity to bring it up 1 degree no matter if its to 90 or 102. When you turn it down it does not heat untill it reaches below the 90 degree mark, but it has to work to bring it back up to the 102. The other reason we have people keep the temps up is when you live in the northeast, have a storm, power is out and tub started at 90 its that much closer to the freezing point. If it is kept at 102, than it takes longer for it to get to the freezing point, just keep the cover shut.
For you PH being high, I still think you have a mineral issue...scale from vermont is quite frequently lime and this would cause a higher PH. High PH causes scale.. Just a thought, but it goes along with your bromine being chewed up too. Seems to be going hand and foot to me.
Hmm, it makes sense that it would take the same amount of electricity to increase the heat 1 degree- however, I would think keeping the tub at a higher setting would make the computer request heat more often than if you kept it at a lower setting. However, like you said, this savings might be lost when I go to heat it up to 102 at the end of the week... any physicists/electrical engineers out there?
Tony
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Waterbear-
Nope, not testing right after shocking... it was about 18 hours later, actually. However, the sanitizer levels were fairly high (somewhere around 5.6ppm TC, which is actually Br in this case, so 12.3-ish ppm TB)... by the way, my total hardness readings are right where they should be (on the low side of normal, around 250 ppm), if that helps figure things out. I actually had to add about 10oz. of hardness up when I filled my tub, as it was reading 0ppm (this at the dealer and according to my strips)... Oh, and I'm not using a test kit (yes, yes, I'm going to buy one)
using a digital strip reader, and regular strips as a "back up", both read around 8.0 pH, and TA down somewhere around 100.Tony
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Also, new problem for me: my pH just seems to like to "hang out" at 8.0, maybe a little lower (7.7 to 7.9 at the lowest)... no matter how much acid I add (I've added an entire quart in the past few days), it always seems to end up there again.... my TA has been on the low side of the normal range (somewhere in the low 80's). Richard has told me that MPS will lower my pH... my question is: how bad is this? Is it going to damage my equipment very quickly, or should I just wait for the MPS and Br to bring the level down to an acceptable range?
Tony
Ch Down To "0"... How Much Of A Problem?
in Hot Tub Water Chemistry
Posted
Okay, I have already ordered some Swirl Away (as per your previous advice), but what is this Spa Defender you speak of? And how important is it since I've already place my order?
Tony