TinyBubbles
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Posts posted by TinyBubbles
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Bo, I think that is something that you have to determine for yourself. I can tell you that I do not maintain a 1-3 ppm FC level in my spa. I raise it to about 3 when we get out of spa and usually have no residual at all the next day when we get in. I've done this for 3 months now, with no issue. I do use a N2 cartridge and ozonator. I know for a fact that there are many people out there that use a mineral cartridge and only dose with mps daily, no chlorine, except to shock weekly, and they have no problems. In my opinion, this proves it's not snake oil. We all have our own comfort level with germs, I'm a bit of a germaphobe, so I still use chlorine, plus I breakout when I use MPS. The people at zodiac do say that you can substitue dichlor for MPS for your daily dosing. You can look up silver and it's ability to kill germs and viruses online. Then there is ozone. Again, you have to read about it and form your own opinion. There are scores of articles out there that say that ozone kills all viruses. Then there are people that will swear it doesn't. It doesn't matter what anyone says, it only matters what the results are. As long as there are people out there with an N2 cartridge that throw in a capful of MPS when they get out of the spa, then I have to form the opinion that it is effective. I have a friend that owns a pool/spa supply store and every one of her spa customers have switched to that program and love it. I've spoken to them myself. I don't believe that anyone out there is trying to scam us by selling mineral cartridges or ozonators. I think they are offering us alternatives to strong chemicals. It's up to us to do the homework and make our own decisions. I do think that you can maintain a spa with or without them. People had spas without these products for years. I think people were looking for things to lower the amount of chemicals they use and to reduce the time needed to maintain their water, so these products were born. Don't forget, if you use a mineral cartridge, you need to run your filter for atleast 10 hours a day. In addition, ozone is only effective while the ozonator is running, it has no residual.
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Im thinking its plumbed in wrong and they just dont want to admit it. I have a useless pump on my hands and yes I may as well unhook it... I paid extra for this pump and I think Im going to go for a refund.. I think they think Im a schmuck!!
Here's what I think. This spa was designed not to have a circ pump to begin with which is fine until they offered to add one a$ an option but never had a plan to have it perform any meaningful function as that requires a plumbing redesign. If it isn't tied directly to the heating and/or filtering system it is doing NOTHING for you.
You say its wrong and that they won't admit it but it isn't "wrong" in their eyes if they never had any intention to have it part of the functional plumbing system. It unfortunaetly seems to have performed exactly as they planned, an added option to increase the margin.
I think you hit it right on the button.. I was going to post a pic of the pipes but I think it would be more confusing than anything.... I do know the circ pump ties in with the second filter with pump #2(a T fitting) and then goes directly to its own jet. It doesn't even come close to flowing past the element. Pump 1 runs through the other filter. The sad thing is they say they custom build the hot tub and they still did it the wrong way(the right way in their eyes) That company needs an eye opener... What a waste of $300. The description of the pump says that it is a low voltage pump designed for 24hr circulation and that it filters the water 24/7. I'm not going to back off that easy, it is definitely false advertising......
You mentioned that your circulation pump and pump #2 share a common filter. I saw this on ebay:
Pure Water Management System ($295.00 Upgrade)
Experience the pleasure of crystal clear water 24hrs a day! The Pure Water Management System is an energy efficient, silent running, constant water maintenance system. Spend your time enjoying your new Blue Water Spa, without the worry of constant water maintenance monitoring that may be common in other spa models. The heart of the system begins with it's dual 50 square foot filters. One of these filters is dedicated to 24 hour circulation, relieving the system of excess debris trapped oils that can affect the performance of your new spa. The system is powered by a low voltage circulation pump, evenly distributing ozone treated water through a dispersion injector to your spa 24 hours a day. No matter what time of day you choose to enjoy your new Blue Water Spa, it is always ready for use!
If this is where you bought your spa, it's clearly false adverstising. It says that one of the filters is dedicated to the circulation pump. It dosen't mention anything about heating, so that point probably can't be argued with them. Good Luck.
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1-go to www.photobucket.com and open a free account
2-upload the pictures you want to post
3-once your pics are uploaded there are several codes underneath each picture, click on the IMG code
4-click copy of the code
5-click on reply to the topic your in on the forum and right click paste in the response.
6-click add reply and your done.
If you can show spatech an actual picture that you've taken of the plumbing inside your compartment, specifically around the heater, I'm sure he can help you out.
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Spatech, is that something that the person he bought the spa from would have done? I know when I was spa shopping one dealer wanted to sell me a tub that did not have the options I wanted. They said they could just add them on at the store. When I shopped at a different dealer for the same brand, they said that you have to order the tub with those features. I ordered the tub the way I wanted it, I was leery of someone adding things on later. Also, is this something that could be changed for him now, or is he stuck with the way it's plumbed?
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It's difficult to know exactly what they've done but it sounds like they're throwing things together. I have a few ideas of how this is set up but can't tell from here. I wonder what this circ pump is supposed to be doing for you.
Typically the circ pump is tied to the heater to circulate water through the heater and also draws that water through the filter. The idea is to get quiet water flow for heating and filtering without need for the main pump coming on low speed. Instead it seems like they just plumbed one in and it doesn't have much of a purpose since the heater is still tied into the main pump (I'm wondering if the filter is even tied to the circ pump). When you tell the controller you have a circ pump it probably wants to run it 24/7 and assumes any time it’s energizing the heater that the water is run through the heater by the circ pump and doesn't think the low speed of the pump needs to be on when the heater is energized. That is why they wanted you to change the dip switch back.
Could they really have just plumbed in a circ pump without tying it into anything, therefore rendering it totally useless? I'd ask the manufacturer if the circ pump is tied to the heater or filter. If neither the heater nor filter is tied to that circ pump they're just adding it for no purpose at all other than to charge more $ and you might as well just shut it down. If its tied to just the filter and the heater is tied to the low speed pump and it only disables the circ pump during heating but the circ comes back on for filtering when not heating that at least shows a function for the circ pump.
Hopefully Balboa can straighten this out for you.
I concur Dr. My manual says that if there's no circ pump then pump #1 comes on LOW at timed cycles for filtration/heat... especially noticeable on initial startup (just flipped breaker to ON) as the circ pump primes, and when no circ pump-> pump #1 comes on LOW to prime. I would have to assume the dip switch is for that option as my pump#1 also has no LOW setting, just HIGH... and of course as I said before I do have a circ pump, so when I first power ON spa, circ pump runs to prime (display reads Pr) and water only comes out of heater and ozonator holes and not any jets per se.
BTW I have a Down East Exeter with Balboa controls and there are online general resources listing Balboa codes that are easily g00gle-able (balboa error codes) ...but there are no error codes for an improperly plumbed spa. Insist on a hands on visit/repair and good luck. Please come back and tell us how that went. Other people may be able to help more if you get a negative response to your request for service. Keep in mind we can only guess at your true remote configuration/situation.
Thanks for the replies! What you two are saying is exactly what I'm thinking is supposed to happen. Here is the latest from the manufacturer......
Tells me to leave the dip switch to the off position... I question why I should turn off a circulation pump when it is obvious that it should be turned on... He says it is used to move the water around better when the heating cycle kicks in and it should run when pump #1 runs at low speed during the filter cycle.... Ok so please tell me why you would want to run pump #1 normal when filtering and then have a low voltage(120v) pump filter though a filter right beside the pump #1 filter..... So in the end we determined that the circ pump will only run when pump #1 is in its filter cycle..... I told him that sounds pointless and he said it is a circulating pump and circulating is what it does so it moves the water around better making it easier on pump#1 and the heating...... I think pump 1 does a pretty good job moving the water around by itself since water comes out of a dozen jets.... Im thinking its plumbed in wrong and they just dont want to admit it. I have a useless pump on my hands and yes I may as well unhook it... I paid extra for this pump and I think Im going to go for a refund.. I think they think Im a schmuck!!
That does sound really bizarre. Anyword yet from Balboa? Usually you either have a 2-speed pump running on low speed for filtering or your circulation pump. To have both sounds like overkill. It seems like it would increase the electrical costs of operating the spa. There are alot of experts on this site, could you take a picture of your equipment compartment? Maybe they could look at it and help you out.
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I don't want to confuse you because you need information specific to your tub. My tub has a circ pump and it runs 24/7. It comes out of the heater outlet (has the collar to prevent you from blocking flow) and another hole under my spa light... that is obviously my ozonator as bubbles come out of there. I can feel the heated water coming out of the other. My understanding was it was a lower powered pump that continuously drew water through the filter... which it does.
Bo, you have a "24-hour circulation pump". I, being new to spas, assumed that all circulation pumps were "24-hour circulation pumps". Circulation pumps are lowered powered motors. Some controls run them automatically 24 hours a day, other controls require that you program them to the amount of time you want them to run. I feel better than I'm not the only one that has a hard time wrapping my head around the concept.
Tiny, I finally saw the light, bubbles.
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There is a difference between having a circulation pump and a 24 hour circulation pump. If your controls do not support a 24 hour circ pump, then it could be that your dip switch was in the right position in the first place. I had some confusion with the wording when I first got my spa also. Had to get it through my head that a circulation pump can be capable of running 24 hours a day without actually being a 24 hour circ pump. I almost messed with my dip switches as well, so I know where you are coming from. My circulation pump can be programmed by me to run 24 hours a day. If it was a "24 hour circulation pump" it would run 24 hours a day and you couldn't change this fact. Does that make sense? I wish I was at home so I could look at my dip switches. I think that mine were set the way yours were originally and it confused the heck out of me. I feel your pain cause it drove me nuts! In the end, my spa was delivered exactly as it should have been. Balboa set me straight that my controls did not support a 24 hour circ pump which is why the dip switch was not set to that position. The manufacturer confirmed that they made this change because customers did not like the fact that they couldn't adjust the time their circulation pump ran and were upset that there water was overheating.
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ummm, turn up the volume?
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Well, if the pipes don't go through the heater, I can't help there. But Balboa is a good place to start. I know the controls on my spa were recently changed. They used to be preset to run 24 hours, but too many people complained about their spa water overheating, especially in the summer months. There is always the possibility that the guy who sold it to you threw something on aftermarket to boost the price. Good Luck, I hope everything works out for you. Has he offered to take the spa back and replace it if there is a problem?
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You could have a lemon or you could have a poorly maintained tub. Since you have a second hand tub, it's like buying a used car. You have no way of knowing if the previous owners maintained their spa properly. Some people have a mechanic look at a used car before buying it and there is the option of having a spa technician look at a tub before buying it. While the hot springs people told you it would be $800 to repair the tub, it could have come back fully functioning. There is no way of knowing if the discounted $300 repair is the reason for the continued problems. I don't think it's unusual for a company to take a spa to their facility to be repaired. When we inquired about the repair process while spa shopping, every dealer told us that depending on the problem, they may or may not fix the tub at our home. This is especially true of fully foamed spas. The equipment compartment is the only place that they would easily be able to spot a leak. In all fairness to Hot Springs, they were the ones that informed you about the spas repair history. I think your anger should be focused on the previous home owners. Parts go bad on spas, no matter what the brand. Since someone else had posession of the spa for 5 years, I'd cut Hot Springs a break. I doubt it would be hard to sell the spa. Perhaps the repair technician that worked on it would be interested. There are many people out there looking for a good deal on a spa and don't mind doing some work on it. Before deciding on selling the spa, you might want to shop for a replacement to see how much money it will cost. It might be worth fixing what is already there. Best of Luck.
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Hi Joey, I would email Balboa with info. on which controls you have and they should be able to help you with specifics. If you have a circulation pump, that should be the one running when the spa is heating. When you say no pump came on to circulate the water when the heat came on, you could have been mistaken. The circulation pump is small and quiet. Depending on which Balboa controls you have, it very well may not have come set to run 24/7. I have Balboa controls and a circulation pump on my spa. I can program it to run from zero hours to 24 hours, my choice. Regardless of how I have it programmed, it will come on when the spa calls for heat. I have to put my head up against the cabinet to hear it running. By flipping the dip switch, you stopped the low speed of pump 1 from running during heat cycles and switched the operation to the circulation pump. Balboa will be happy to send you operating instructions for your particular controls if you email them with the specifics. I had them do this for me in the past. Good Luck.
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I have friends in southern NC that use their tub every single day of the year. Believe or not, they keep it set at 104, even in the hot summer months.
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Well, I had to add a ton of dichlor yesterday for my readings to stay between 3-5 after 30 minutes. Before treating, I rinsed my filter, which was a little dirty (in stripes, is that normal?) I also added a little mps and de-foamer, and ran all jets for 1-2 hours total.
Today, I opened up the spa to clear water, but it took 24 hours, and it smells like chlorine even though my strips again show no chlorine!
I will bring my water in to be tested tomorrow and pick up a taylor kit. Is there a certain one to ask for? I will go to pinch-a-penny.
That's not unusual at all to have readings of 3-5 ppm and then 0 the next day. The confusing thing is the smell. Are you testing for FC and CC? Any chance what you are smelling is the ozone? It can build up under the cover and then you can get a good wiff of it when you open it up. I get foam when the jets are on too, but it goes away when they are off, so I never pay it any attention. With friends getting in the tub with suits on, it's gonna happen. When you get back, it's probably a good time for a drain and refill and start over with a clean slate. From all the posts here, it seems really common for the firt fill not to last very long. How did you clean your filter? I've soaked mine in bleach before and then smelled bleach for awhile after that. Look on the bright side, the fact that you got clear water is a step in the right direction!
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Woo Hoo 103! Post pics when you get a chance. We looked at the Tahitian. It's such a pretty spa. Happy soaking.
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The issue of warranties being voided due to the use of bleach is brought up alot. If chlorine is chlorine, can a manufacturer prove if bleach was used in a spa?
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Unless it is a Hot Springs policy not to offer a customer orientation, than I would run away from that dealer. I can understand them not filling your spa or even adding the chemicals themselves, because it could be a liability issue. Not giving you a demonstration on how to run your spa, once it's at your house and filled, is not reasonable. Sounds like a lazy dealer. When I had the man out to show me how to work the spa, he actually made me push every button and do everything myself, to make sure I understood how to run the spa. This is who you are going to need to turn to in the future, if you have any problems with your spa. Doesn't sound like he's going to be too helpful. I think there are other hot springs dealers on the board, maybe they could let you know if this is normal Hot Springs procedure or not. If it isn't, I would contact Hot Springs and let them know about this particular dealer. Hot Springs has a solid reputation and I'm sure they wouldn't want a dealer tarnishing it. As far as pricing goes, I don't think you can hold that against the dealer. He has a price he needs to charge and you have a price you can pay, if they aren't the same, that isn't anyone's fault.
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If it was me, I would just start heating it. But, if you are worried, use the metal sequestrant and balancing stuff from the kit you have and then just switch it out with the bottles in your new kit when the guy comes back. The only difference between the kits should be the sanitizer. Good luck and congratulations. Keep the lid closed as much as possible and run the jets to help it heat faster. You could add some buckets of hot water from your tap, also. Good Luck!
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Hi Diamond, Have you been to Artesian's website? They discuss the lights that come standard with the platinum elite spas. Then you can click on options to read about the dynabrite.
http://www.artesianspas.com/showroom/platinum/features.asp
http://www.artesianspas.com/showroom/platinum/options.asp
If I remember correctly when buying my spa, the plain system will change the light colors but it doesn't have the options and combinations that the dynabrite offers. I'd ask your dealer if they have both systems in spas in the showroom so they can show you the actual difference.
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What is the TA that you consider to be too low? If your spa already has a tendency for the pH to rise, you can have a lower TA, at least below 80, but probably not below 60. A lower TA should help reduce the tendency of the pH to rise. Also, try a target pH of 7.7 as the pH will rise less at lower TA and higher pH.
Also, what is your chlorine and shock regimen (how much, how often)?
Richard
Thanks for the response, Richard. The TA tested out at 100ppm and is supposed to be 120-150 according to the guidelines for my spa. It had been 120 ppm before I added the Ph decreaser. The Ph has been 7.8 or higher for a while, regardless of the decreaser I add.
For my chlorine and shock regimen, I add 1 cap chlorine every other week and 1 cap non-chlorine shock every week. The spa has a vision cartridge (silver) and an ozone filter. I was told this would help lessen the need for sanitizers. Should I keep trying to bring the Ph down even if the TA will go lower than recommended. Should I add decreaser every other hour or every other day until it reads properly. Thanks.
I am fascinated by your water maintenance. If you've had your tub since May and haven't had any problems with water quality, that's unreal. I know that the companies that manufacture the silver cartridges suggest low chlorine, but they usually recommend daily dosing with mps. How often do you soak and how many people usually soak? How long have you gone between water changes. Sorry to give you the 5th degree, but this is interesting.
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Well, I brought my alk and PH up, finally. On 4 different brand strips all levels seem OK, except hardness which is low. Until now, when my water had a VERY low Alk & PH, my water was crystal clear. I opened my tub this morning to cloudy water.
I have a Caldera Niagra w/24 hour filt, ozone, frog and dichlor/mps. I haven't checked or used my tub since Wed or Thurs when I shocked. Today is Sunday.
I am also going away from Thurs-Tuesday this coming week, so I don't want to drain and refill, only to have problems when I return. Any suggestions? What causes cloudy water?
I also have foam when the jets are on, but just added defoamer (to the cloudy water) and dichlor. Still cloudy, though the foam has decreased.
Hi Ivie, I got cloudy water once, in my case it was clearly caused by my fastgloss application. I added a little clarifier and then ran the jets for about 45 minutes to an hour. I rinsed the filters off during this time. Water cleared right up and has stayed clear. You mentioned dichlor and mps, how often do you add them? Did you shock with MPS or dichlor on Wed. or Thurs? How old is your water?
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Hi plunge, it's me again. LA spas has a spa called an UNO that fits your size requirements. I know there is a dealer in the Marietta area. It can be wired for 240v, which I think is a plus. http://www.laspas.com/las_tropical_uno.asp. Check it out.
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Hi plunge. You are SO limited by those dimensions. Have you considered going to your HOA and trying to get a variance? You don't really need the whole 96", but 51" is way too small. Perhaps you could ask them to let you change the dimensions without adding any square footage. You could rework the patio area into a square rather than the narrow rectangle it is now. Just a thought. Also, the spa that Blake mentioned by DM industries, I believe they are connected with Vita spa. If you are in the Atlanta area you might want to talk to Adam or Damion at Atlanta Spa and Leisure. They are great guys and might be able to get it for you.
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I would like to hear from people who have the Costco Infinity Sun Peak. How is it doing? How is your electric bill? Any concerns? I know one owner posted that her electric bill was sky-high since she hooked it up. Please respond so I can get some first hand reviews. Thank you!!
Purchased Infinity Spa Aug. 3rd, 07, biggest mistake I ever made. I have 3 jets I can't open, called for warrenty service in Aug problem still not resolved. My oct. electric bill, ( wich I received mid Nov. ) was $60+ avg monthly temp 48 deg. needless to say I drained it before Thanksgiving. Tub is poorley insulated, maby 1/4 in of spray foam on shell and that's all. Stay away from Infinity Spas!!!!!!! Product is CHEAP! Service is WORSE.
Hi, sorry you are having a bad experience with your tub. I just wanted to clarify something. In this post you mentioned that the average monthly temp. was 48 degrees but in another post you mentioned that your heat was off during this period. Either one of those is a typo or you really need a hot tub so you can soak in it to warm up.
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Large swimming pools are increasingly being converted from Chlorine/Bromine systems into salt chlorine generator systems. Are small spas of 250 to 450 gallons applicable to this type of system?
In my research I found a company a chlorine generator. These systems use the process of electrolysis. When water passes over a device (the chlorine generator cell) it is instantaneously transformed into hypochlorous acid. This acid kills algae and other harmful stuff in water. Using table salt, the generator converts the salt atom through electrolysis into chlorine and back into salt. The system doesn't loose any salt in the process and maintains the proper pH. Testing is still required, but the calcium and mineral deposits inside the generator are the big secret which need replacement.
The only chlorine generators I could find on the Internet treat as little as 15,000 gallon pools for about $700.00. After using a spa for the last six months, water treatment chemical use and filtering is not a perfect science. There are too many different chemicals, too many variables and as a layman I am trying to keep my costs low and my enjoyment of my spa high!
You don't want to use a salt system designed for a pool on something as small as a hot tub. You won't be able to keep the chlorine levels low enough. The information about the systems not losing any salt is not exactly accurate. You don't add salt once and never again. Of course, you wouldn't need to add much to something as small as a spa. Salt systems are fantabulous for pools. The water can be corrosive to certain materials, such as limestone. I don't know if it would effect the shell of a spa or not. One drawback I've seen with salt systems designed for spas is the need to float it in the spa water and remove it when soaking. In addition, you are supposed to add a shock packet before and after each soak. It just doesn't seem easier to me, unlike the completely automated pool systems. Of course, there might be projects out there that I'm not familiar with.
Down To Three - Bring It On!
in Portable Hot Tubs & Spas
Posted
You need to do what's best for you and your family. If you prefer the master spa, then buy it. Just realize that master spa owners seem to have the most complaints about their energy consumption. You are lucky that you've seen posts relating to that and can factor them in when making your decision. My husband and I considered a master spa, and at that point, I saw nothing on the forum about their high energy use. Now that I see them, I say "phew" that we didn't purchase that spa. That might not be something that matters to you, so you can just file the energy consumption in the FYI folder. If it factors into your budget and you aren't a "green" type person, go for it! Marquis and Hot springs both have many satisfied customers. I have a brother, coworker and friend that are all satisfied hot springs owners. They particulary like the moto-massage. Marquis seems to be very popular with people that want an intense, theraputic soak. Try making a list of what you really want out of a spa, then list the pros and cons of all the spas you are looking at. Whichever one has the most pros and matches with your needs is the one to buy. Good Luck.