JRM75

I think I have algae present; it looks green on the surface, beige when I skim it off, and it smells like pond water. The system is near a set of overhead doors, so it gets plenty of outside air and a little bit of sun. We also have fluorescent lighting, which (from what I understand) also promotes algae growth. Are you saying that if I use Baquacil I will need a separate algaecide, or that its algaecidal properties are sufficient for the limited environment I have? Well, now that you mention there being sunlight and algae, you will need to add algaecide. If there's an algae bloom, it will be even hard to control it with chlorine (you would have to shock many times); so you can imagine that with Baquacil's low-oxidizing properties it would be much tougher or you wouldn't notice any improvements at all. You will need an algaecide, oil/grease removers and probably phosphate removing chemicals to keep algae growth to it's very minimum without the use of chlorine. As for bacteria, viruses, and other organics, Baquacil and periodic hydrogen peroxide treatments (this is a dangerous and expensive treatment) would sanitize the pool water properly; but, the Baquacil alone could still be beneficial if no one will be swimming in the water. Also, it doesn't have to be Baquacil, you can look for similar oxidizing agents/pool sanitizers. For example, you can add periodic doses of MPS (potassium monopersulfate) which is a fast-acting oxidizer that destroys ammonia, chloramines (from tap water), and most organics, and all you have to wait is just 15 minutes. There's 3 things to know: If your source of water is tap water, you will be introducing ammonia+chloramines. If there's fluorescent lighting and/or sunlight, algae---unlike, most organics--- will be present and is hard to get rid of, so you will need an algaecide,etc. Finally, if your pool is exposed to other living organisms like bugs, people, animals, etc, you will need a good oxidizing agent/ pool sanitizer or a weak sanitizer if your pool is not for people and animals to swim in.

I bought a color-changing liquid called "Blue-Lagoon", which gives my pool water a more bluish look. For some reason my sand filter filters it out every few hours. The instruction on the bottle's label says to keep filter running, but it seems more like I need to keep it on "recirculate". What's causing the color to be filtered out? Is it the added clarifier that's mixed with the blue liquid?

Ever thought of using a non-chlorine shock treatment like Potassium Monopersulfate? Although, it does not sanitize your pool completely, it will still remove all the ammonia, chloramines, etc. These treatments are usually fast-acting and are not recommended as an alternate sanitizer for pools and spa's, because it does not stay in the water very long nor sanitizes the water as much as chlorine does. So, instead of super-chlorinating, you can do this type shocking treatment and then add regular amounts of chlorine to keep your FC at the recommended range for regular sanitization.

Thanks for the info. I discussed the borate/boric acid option with my boss, and while that combination is used as a corrosion inhibitor in certain applications (nuclear reactor coolant being one), it can also cause corrosion in some circumstances. He pretty much said "no" to that. So I haven't taken any action yet. Based on some of what you've said, and on a whole bunch of surfing around pool sites, I'm seriously considering either Baquacil or a product called "Echocide" which is sold by an ultrasound company (their proprietary blend of N-Alkyl (C12-16)-N,N-dimethyl-Nbenzylammonium chloride). (I see that chloride there, but it's only a small fraction of the total composition of the substance, which will itself be diluted a whole lot.) I have not yet heard from other companies who have tanks like ours, but I've got inquiries out there. Should I even consider either of these two products? Keep in mind that no one will be swimming in this (and I do feel a bit out-of-place posting under this circumstance). I'm no pool expert, but if your going to use Baquacil you will have future pool problems like water mold and algae. Here's some information pertaining to common pool problems & solutions when using Baquacil: Baquacil in Swimming Pools Baquacil isn't a strong oxidizer, so tough grease and oils in the water will be a problem. Your going to have to buy separate "Oil/Grease Removers" for swimming pools. Also, periodic additions of algaecide should control the algae more than with the Baquacil alone; although, if you have the pool indoors (away from sunlight), then there's no need for an algaecide. Indoors provides better protection against airborne bacteria and other microorganisms; so if it's indoors and no one will be using it either you can just use Baquacil for all your sanitizing needs.

Looks like your going to need everything that doesn't corrode metal, so your going to need some copper and silver minerals as a slow-killing sanitizer like the "Nature2" filter system, periodic additions of algaecide or optionally you can add borates (pool store has it or buy it cheap from grocery stores, in the detergent section, which is called "20 mule team borax") to the pool to control algae and fungi, and/or possible use an Ozone system together with everything to have a stronger sanitizing effect in the pool w/o use of chlorine.*If your going to add borates, add about 5 boxes per 6,000 gallons and 38 ounces of 31.46% (31% is close) muriatic acid per box of borax to reach 50ppm of boric acid in that amount of water (you should add the acid simultaneously w/ the borax). Now, if your thinking of using those mineral systems, then you will need to almost always keep the PH levels in check, because water discoloration and stains can become a serious problem having a lot of metals, like copper and silver, in the water. You should keep the PH between 7.2 and 7.8 (add muriatic acid to adjust TA and PH). You should first deal with balancing the water with the right PH, CH, and TA. TA or Total Alkalinity should be between 80 and 150 (or more depending on how much you want to resist PH fluctuations---with a higher TA it's harder to adjust the PH). CH is calcium hardness. You should post some of the specs. (PH,TA,CH,etc.), so some chemistry experts here can help you to balance the water before you install/add any minerals (copper/silver) to the pool, so stains and water discoloration won't be headache in the future. You can visit this website: www.troublefreepool.com ----for more detailed advice on anything you would like know (some sections don't require you to register either). Note: I'm not using a mouse right now, so I can't give you the direct link to site.

This is completely off-topic, you should've PM'ed me instead; but my post (although, off-topic as well) was to warn the customer and other members of the possible consequences for going to websites like those. If there were active moderators in this forum, then this wouldn't have gotten so complicated. In any website, where we help others to the best of our knowledge, we want them to be satisfied with our answers and give regards to the website. We don't want them to visit a site that mistakenly got infected with a virus/trojan (maybe it was before or it happened today), and then we are blamed for the trouble the customer went through because his computer got infected when he took our advice. So, before you just visit a website and think it's alright for others to check out as well, Google the site and see how good it is or use LinkScanner to check for unknown samples of trojan/virus code that may exist on that site.

Shocking=Super-chlorinating=Enough chlorine to kill all algae+bacteria+viruses+other organics/organisms

You should use an algaecide as well, because the chlorine alone will take longer with that much algae. Also, you don't know if they're is black algae, so you should still use an algaecide. Remember, follow the directions on any label. The left over dead algae can be scooped out or vacuumed out after. For such a small pool, you should use no more than 1.5 gallons of liquid chlorine (10,000 gallon shock, which is more than enough). Also, if you want you can add 2-3 boxes of 20 mule team borax (in local grocery stores, detergent section) to control algae and fungi; you should not add this chemical periodically, because not only it can be toxic for pets but it can only be taken out/reduced from water drainage/backwash, or splash-out. 20 mule team borax adds borates to the water, and to balance PH use 38 ounces of muriatic acid per box of borax (you should add acid and borax simultaneously, so the PH won't drastically change). Many pool owners put borates in their pool, because it aids in controlling algae blooms, makes the pool water "softer", and gives an overall "sparkle" to the water. So your procedures are: 1) Shock your pool 2) Add an algaecide 3) Add algae & fungi inhibitors (borates/borax), which is optional. Also, if you want add soap you can, but to remove it you would have to shock your pool to oxidize all of it as it doesn't react well with chlorine in the water. Soap would take a lot of time though to remove the algae, and more time+labor to shock your pool to remove the soap, unless you can successfully drain all the water without collapsing the structure. If you would like better tips and details, check out the "Pool School" section at Trouble Free Pool

Hey Don I'm not sure who you are to send others to these type of websites, but either you should get banned for doing pranks or simply not post these links/website url's at all; it's hard to tell if you did not mean to type that url on purpose and you should remove/erase it as soon as possible, so no one visits that website. If a moderator were here to do that it would be much easier than explaining all this. www.flextile.com contains sample of JS: Agent-AV Trojan Horse/Virus, either as a Redirect Code or it's embedded onto a link in the website. I'm an expert in Computer & Browser Security, so I know what I'm saying. The Norton, Avast!, Webroot, McAfee, and AVG anti-virus databases all contain the same signature(s) of the samples collected on that website. Shortly, I will be contacting the admin. of that website and give them a bug report and a "Hijacked" website report that will be stored in the national SiteAdvisor databases for McAfee, and LinkScanner databases for Grisoft Technologies and Exploit Prevention Labs.

Well, I can give advice or you can ask the Super-Pool-Chemistry-Experts (S.P.C.E.) like Richard or "Chem Geek"--- if you want to PM him. Your worse possible damage is stains and severe water cloudiness, if not intense eye irritation for anyone who swims in your pool. As for the acid, if your adding too much in one spot or in a shallow region, you can seriously damage the pool floor or bleach the paint. First, what is the volume of your pool (how big it is) ? Second, How much acid are you adding at once? Third, How high (specifically, in terms of ppm) is your PH? Finally, what type of pool system do you have? Are there any waterfalls and/or do you have an SWG system? [EDIT]: As the subject you mentioned it being 8.2? Well, I've seen higher PH for others that had worse problems, but it's mostly because they have an SWG system or a waterfall/cascade causing the water to aerate and release carbon dioxide (carbon dioxide is a weak acid that usually keeps the PH somewhat low, most of it is from the bicarbonates in the water converted to CO2 when the water has a PH below 8.3 ). In other words, all the acid in the pool is in form of CO2 when the PH is below 8.3, so if something is aerating the water, then the PH will rise constantly. This is what I understood from this link, if not Richard can just correct me. For pools that average to 12,000 gallons... It's probably the acid your using, since the TA didn't lower either, or your using too little. Try with 48 ounces of Muriatic acid (31.45%) diluted in a few buckets of water (I would say 12 ounces of acid per bucket) and distribute it across the pool. This will not only lower the PH, but keep the TA from reacting with the acid as much (although, it will still lower the TA a bit). Now, about your TA, if you want you can add 32-48 ounces of Muriatic acid directly into the pool (no dilution), at the deepest end and aerate the water to release carbon dioxide in order to accelerate the process; this link provides all the details and a complete summary. Note: you should do one of these options one at a time, if not one step every few hours to let the water settle, so you can re-test your PH and TA and give us your readings after.

My pool is about 11,000 gallons. It depends on the heat, amount of sunlight, and how clean (how many times people bath,etc) your pool is, to know how much chlorine your pool needs. People use my pool every weekend, it's always in direct sunlight, and the pool temp. is between 70-80 degrees Fahrenheit on average. I like to super-shock my pool on Monday nights with 2.5 gallons of liquid chlorine, since at night there's isn't any sunlight and/or very little heat---so the chlorine can last longer or work more efficiently. Note: 1 gallon of liquid chlorine is the recommended dose for 10,000 gallons of pool water, while 1.5 gallons of liquid chlorine is enough to shock 10,000 gallons of pool water; 2 to 2.5 gallons is "super-shocking" your pool for extreme cases, in which chloramines are abundant in the water (you smell "bad-chlorine") or there has been less than 1 ppm of chlorine (using CYA, the ppm level may affect you differently) for more than 2 days. In your case, 1.5 gallons of liquid chlorine plus the 2 cap fulls of trichlor granule should be equivalent to at least 2 gallons of liquid chlorine, which seems to be enough as a regular shock treatment; but, since your adding cyanuric acid, you have to add more chlorine if your adding that amount of chlorine (above) for shocking purposes. Chem Geek should have the right answer/explanation for this situation...

ph unreadable, well that's quite impossible because in any aqueous solution there is a PH. Low Alkalinity and Chlorine could lower PH drastically. Your Total Alkalinity cound have gotten that low due to various reason such as: Water Replacement, Acid is being used to lower PH (lowers TA as well), or your water source simple has little or no alkalinity. Go to the grocery stores and buy 2 pounds of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) for every 10,000 gallons of water. This will increase the Alkalinty based on how much you add (2lbs/10K water= approx. 40 ppm). You can lose a lot of chlorine in a pool and very quickly due to various reasons: The Sun's UVrays, heat, too much organic matter in the pool, chloramines, and especially Low PH. You should first increase alkalinity levels between 80-100, though this will raise your PH you need to maintain it between 7.2-7.8. You can use muriatic acid in small quantaties day by day to adjust to proper PH. Now since you have more total alkalinity the PH won't drift as much or it won't go off unbalance as quickly. The main thing now is to add chlorine. If your chlorine is liquid chlorine then your PH will rise very high, so you must balance it out again with acid (DON'T USE BOTH CHEMICALS AT THE SAME TIME!). Note: your chlorine levels may have dropped significantly, because you haven't super chlorinated once in a while to super-oxidize organic matter in your pool including alagae, oils, ammonia, bugs, and bacteria. Uusally super chlorinating is raisning the free chlorine levels from 10 ppm and above .

1) I'm using sodium tetraborate as an alternative to my chlorine stabilizer, which reduces chlorine consumption (Even if UV rays eliminate them), plus it reduces algae growth and seems to make my water look more sparkly. 2) the calcium chloride I'm using says that it will only raise my calcium hardness to 400ppm, but I didin't mean that I dump it in one go (during the sixth month period I split between 25 pounds per 3 months, usually before the spring and summer months as I don't need to backwash as often) 3) I'm using liquid chlorine, and use up one jug per week. Even I sometimes have free chlorine in the pool it smells like there's always chloramines for some reason, that's why I superchlorinate and use one pound of shock (Potassium Monopersulfate) bi-weekly. 4) for the CYA levels, well it's pretty self-explanatory for the borates are the ones reducing the chlorine consumption in my pool, but usually I dump 9 pounds of cyunaric acid every 3 months to reach 120 ppm (although the ppm is high, but that's what my pool store recommends) 5) The readings/numbers for the chemicals in my pool are shown to me at my pool store when they test my water (they use a drop test or something that uses liquid,etc. testing). 6) the pool store also tells me that I should atleast add 64 ounces of acid every month and borax ( 2lbs per 10,000 gallons) if i want to be cheap about stabilizer, sodium bicarbonate, and algaecide.

I have a 11,000 gallon pool, It runs on a sand filter 17 hours a day. The return jets are manually placed upwards to move water-surface-debris and dirt to the skimmer. It is a pool that uses chlorine and sodium tetraborate (8 pounds a month). These are my weekly Pool water chemistry statistics: PH: varies each week, but the average is 7.688. This week it is 7.092 Free Chlorine: approximately 4ppm constantly Total Alkalinity: approx. 70 ppm (varies each week as well at about -20ppm to +20ppm) Cyanuric Acid: approx. 10.2 PPM constantly Calcium Hardness: 125.9 ppm I put 48 ounces of 51% sulfuric acid (diluted) weekly to balance out the PH rise from my chlorine in my pool. I also add 8 pounds of 20 mule Team BORAX once a month. I brush/vacuum the pool and backwash/rinse the filter weekly. Every 6 months I dump 50 pounds of Calcium Chloride in my pool to balance/increase hardness. I use chlorine-free shock and superchlorinate Bi-weekly. My pool's fiber glass is etching away, I have metal stains on floor+walls, and my pool's floor/wall paint is degrading very quickly for some reason. There are also some black smudges like hand prints on my fiberglass paint, which cannot be brushed off (even if I use ascrobic acid) My Pool isn't cloudy and it's pretty crystal clear as of now. But, How can I improve on the etching away of the fiberglass?