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My recommendation is to return the tub to Costco (cut your loses) and buy a high efficiency tub. Go to a D1 or a Hot Springs dealer and look under the hood on how a quality tub is insulated.

IMO, A thermal blanket on a poorly insulated tub is like insulating your attic with R60 insulation and then opening a window in your house. A thermal blanket will help but it won't cut your power consumption in half.

All tubs are not made the same. As they say, you can pay me now or you can pay me later.

Since I bought a poorly insulated tub a year ago, I have become one educated consumer.

'Got-soaked' We all read your several post about your experience with your $14K tub. I bet when you bought it you thought it was the best tub for the money. Now your making recommendations? :rolleyes: How much do you plan to spend on your next tub, $25K? Didn't you say you had other issues with your tub as well?

1. Energy consumption is 25KW per day (and it is warm out)

2: Thermal "pain" design is flawed since the base leaks too much air and can't retain the heat (inside the tub's skirt 87 degrees ambient temp 72 degrees)

3: 90% of the small jets will not turn (on or off)

4. Filter Cycle not operating properly

5. Chains to cover lifter separate skirting when opening cover

6. Leaks (1 slow drip can be seen coming from within the insulation by the control panel, there has to be more leaks with the amount of water in the tray.

7. Speaker hard to push down.

8. Foam insulation removed when the tech replaced 2 jets that were leaking. (leaky jets replaced a week ago still more leaks)

9. Replacing the two leaking jets the tech removed the existing poly rap and reinstalled by cutting holes and using tie wraps and duct tape

I haven't read any Box store buyers making these claims. In fact these are the problems that are unfairly associated with Box store tubs that cost $10K less then you paid. Now your saying,

"IMO, A thermal blanket on a poorly insulated tub is like insulating your attic with R60 insulation and then opening a window in your house. A thermal blanket will help but it won't cut your power consumption in half."

I disagree. If you buy a well made thermal blanket like those sold on "Dr Spas" site and follow the professional recommendations suggested in the link on my previous post, you should reduce your energy consumption.:ph34r:

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IMO, A thermal blanket on a poorly insulated tub is like insulating your attic with R60 insulation and then opening a window in your house. A thermal blanket will help but it won't cut your power consumption in half.

FULL FOAM is the only way to go if you live where its cold.

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I disagree. If you buy a well made thermal blanket like those sold on "Dr Spas" site and follow the professional recommendations suggested in the link on my previous post, you should reduce your energy consumption. :ph34r:

So what will you save?? Give us the numbers.

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My recommendation is to return the tub to Costco (cut your loses) and buy a high efficiency tub. Go to a D1 or a Hot Springs dealer and look under the hood on how a quality tub is insulated.

IMO, A thermal blanket on a poorly insulated tub is like insulating your attic with R60 insulation and then opening a window in your house. A thermal blanket will help but it won't cut your power consumption in half.

All tubs are not made the same. As they say, you can pay me now or you can pay me later.

Since I bought a poorly insulated tub a year ago, I have become one educated consumer.

At this point, I am no longer operating under the assumption that I have a poor quality tub - I made a mistake about the electric usage. I can honestly say that, even when the electrician was here hooking up the electric, I wasn't staring with fascination at what's hidden under the cabinet so I have no idea what is or isn't in there. But the ad for the spa says "high density foam insulation" - nothing about "thermal pane." On another thread, Ken Gorman posted great directions for adding 2 inch foam insulation to his Infinity. We spent $120 buying the materials to do that and spent $40 on a thermal blanket. I'm thinking that we're making an already good tub even better and our initial investment was just a fraction of what many others paid. For now, I'm a happy soaker!

Sandi

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Biggz,

I’m not making a judgment on the quality of any ones tub. IMO there is a difference in a poor quality tub versus a poorly insulated tub. But if they did buy a tub which consumes very high energy cost you may want to cut your loses and return the tub or try and reduce the energy consumption. The expense and aggravation of returning a tub is just a moment in time, the high operating cost of a tub will be biting into your wallet for years. As you know there are several posts out there that explain how people have insulated their tub. A thermal blanket is one step to take to help. You have to keep in mind though if you alter the tub you could be voiding the warranty. IMO if there is no or limited insulation in the skirt your savings with a thermal blanket will be minimal.

And you are absolutely right my tub is plagued with other operating issues. I believe the other issues are resolvable and wouldn’t concern me if the dealer had a plan to reduce the energy consumption.

There are good reasons to buy a thermal blanket i.e., extending the life of your cover and reducing evaporation along with a slight reduction in your energy cost are three of the biggest benefits. If you have a well insulated cover with a thermal blanket and the four sides of your tub along with the bottom isn't insulated the saving will be minimal.

And yes, when I bought my LSX1050 Master Spa I was an uneducated consumer who got caught up in the Master Spa tent Sale. I figured that Master Spa couldn’t advertise the operating cost of the tub being a $1 a day if it wasn’t true. There may be a spa company out there that has perfected the thermal pane design but I can tell you that it isn't Master Spa and at $14,000 the tub isn't cheap.

If you live in a cold climate and want to save on operating costs go fully insulated. That is why so many of the readers are interested in learning how to better insulate their tubs. With the LSX1050 having so many air gaps in the skirt 101 thermal blankets wouldn’t reduce the energy consumption.

Again IMO, if you have a well fitted and insulated cover the savings with a thermal blanket will be minimal. You can’t insulate the top and ignore the 5 other sides of the tub.

My agenda is to educate people and let them learn from my mistake. I don’t know how the spas are insulated that are sold by the big box stores. I have visited several major brand spa dealers show rooms to pick their brain and look under the hood so my next spa purchase will be decided by facts and not emotions.

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My recommendation is to return the tub to Costco (cut your loses) and buy a high efficiency tub. Go to a D1 or a Hot Springs dealer and look under the hood on how a quality tub is insulated.

IMO, A thermal blanket on a poorly insulated tub is like insulating your attic with R60 insulation and then opening a window in your house. A thermal blanket will help but it won't cut your power consumption in half.

All tubs are not made the same. As they say, you can pay me now or you can pay me later.

Since I bought a poorly insulated tub a year ago, I have become one educated consumer.

At this point, I am no longer operating under the assumption that I have a poor quality tub - On another thread, Ken Gorman posted great directions for adding 2 inch foam insulation to his Infinity. We spent $120 buying the materials to do that and spent $40 on a thermal blanket. I'm thinking that we're making an already good tub even better and our initial investment was just a fraction of what many others paid. For now, I'm a happy soaker!

Sandi

Sandi, That sounds like a plan. Ken's post was a wonderful blue print on improving the tubs performance in cold weather. I do think that if you live in a very cold climate a full foam tub would hold the heat more efficiently, but if that's not what you bought you have to try the next best thing if you want to use the tub in the Winter. I don't believe the claims that any manufacturer makes regarding electricity, because there are just too many other factors, and those number represent the best performance that the tub can produce and not an average. I live in South central Fl. so my number are going to be much different then a user in the North. Since purchasing my tub, I haven't seen a big difference in my bill at all with no modifications what so ever. Despite this I will still add some insulation in 3 of the corners and buy a 1/4" thick, closed cell foam blanket to help protect my cover and reduce heat loss. B)

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I'm thinking that we're making an already good tub even better and our initial investment was just a fraction of what many others paid. For now, I'm a happy soaker!

Sandi

Sandi you are allowed your opinion of this, but remember, we are also allowed our opinion of this brand. And we are allowed our opinion of the of an 8000 dollar spa as being effiecient and having a record of longevity, while you are allowed yours. But to say you paid a fraction of what others paid is really not fair because you got what you got and they got what they got, whether you think there's any value in it or not.

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Sandi you are allowed your opinion of this, but remember, we are also allowed our opinion of this brand. And we are allowed our opinion of the of an 8000 dollar spa as being effiecient and having a record of longevity, while you are allowed yours. But to say you paid a fraction of what others paid is really not fair because you got what you got and they got what they got, whether you think there's any value in it or not.

About 10 years ago, we entered the world of boating (talk about an expensive hobby with gas prices what they are today!) Our first boat was a 14 foot aluminum runabout with a 25HP engine. In 10 years, we have bought 5 other boats - we went larger, and then larger again, and then changed the style of boat b/c we moved and were doing our boating in different waters, then changed styles again, and just 2 weeks ago, changed styles yet again. When we started, we didn't know what size/type of boat would meet our boating habits, plus our needs changed over the years. I think we were smart to start with a small investment.

We approached this spa thing with that experience in mind. We had been in other people's spas a few times and liked it but having never owned a spa, had no idea how much we would really use one once the initial novelty wore off. Turns out that, after 3 months, we're only using it once or twice a week. If I had spent $15K for a spa and was only using it once or twice a week, that's when I would think I had wasted my money! If, after a couple of years, we are still liking the experience of owning a spa, we may very well buy a different one. On the other hand, if we decide that maintaining a spa year round is more trouble than it's worth for the amount of time we use it, I'll feel like we didn't spend a lot of money to find that out. And again, only time will tell if this spa costs me a fortune in electricity - it's too early for me, or any other Infinity owners who got their spas in July or August to know that. If it turns out that I made a poor purchase, I promise that I will admit it on this forum. But for now, I'm happy with the choice I made, just as I'm happy for anyone else who is happy with the choice he/she made.

Sandi

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OK, can we please stick to the topic of this post? I personally dont want to to be criticized for purchasing my Sun Peak or told what a mistake I made and should have bought another brand, I told you sos etc. The fact is is that we own it, and we like it. The purpose of this forum is to help one another and I have some questions. When the pump is on to heat the water is the water also being filtered at this time? If so, what is the purpose of having preset filtration cycles ie. 2hrs every 12 hours(the minimal to save energy)? We want to have the tub at a constant temp because we use it alot so economy is not an option. It seems that the pump is runing an awful lot. Is this normal? Looking for a helpful answer.

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OK, can we please stick to the topic of this post? I personally dont want to to be criticized for purchasing my Sun Peak or told what a mistake I made and should have bought another brand, I told you sos etc. The fact is is that we own it, and we like it. The purpose of this forum is to help one another and I have some questions. When the pump is on to heat the water is the water also being filtered at this time? If so, what is the purpose of having preset filtration cycles ie. 2hrs every 12 hours(the minimal to save energy)? We want to have the tub at a constant temp because we use it alot so economy is not an option. It seems that the pump is runing an awful lot. Is this normal? Looking for a helpful answer.

The spa will filter a certain amount per day (typically it comes on two times per day, two hours each) and separate from that, any time the spa temp drops to a certain point the spa calls for heat and the pump comes on for that reason. When it's on for heating purposes it is drawing the water through the filter so it is also filtering. If the spa isn't very well insulated or it is just very cold outside (or both) you may indeed find the pump on often as it is cycling on/off throughout the day to keep the temp up.

For that reason, some people put the spa in economy mode to limit the heating/filtering to save $$ but that can be a problem for people who use it often as economy mode only calls for heating during the filter cycle so you may go to use it and find a low temp if it's been awhile since the last filter cycle. For that reason I would simply lower your filter time, knowing you're filtering plenty during the heat cycling In addition, many thermal pane spas are not very well insulated so if your pump really seems to be on very often throughout the day you need some insulation improvement to keep your utility bill reasonable and after doing so you should hear your pump on less often.

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Sandi, I read about your situation on your other post. I thought there must be something else affecting your power bill. Glad to see there was. Thanks for posting about your "goof". I'm sure it helped alot of people to read that it wasn't just your spa increasing your bill. So, aside from your energy consumption scare, how do you like your spa?

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OK, can we please stick to the topic of this post? I personally dont want to to be criticized for purchasing my Sun Peak or told what a mistake I made and should have bought another brand, I told you sos etc. The fact is is that we own it, and we like it. The purpose of this forum is to help one another and I have some questions. When the pump is on to heat the water is the water also being filtered at this time? If so, what is the purpose of having preset filtration cycles ie. 2hrs every 12 hours(the minimal to save energy)? We want to have the tub at a constant temp because we use it alot so economy is not an option. It seems that the pump is runing an awful lot. Is this normal? Looking for a helpful answer.

I have never ever criticized anyone for there purchase unless of course they pay 15,000 for an 8-9 thousand dollar spa. A top of the line well insulated spa with a proven record for longevity and dealer support can be had for 8 grand or less. The problem seems to be the comparision some seem to make to this 8 thousand dollar spa, that they somehow bought for 3-4 grand. Let's keep that in perspective. The bottom line is for 3-4 grand you get 3-4 grand worth of spa. For 8 grand you get 8 grand worth of spa.

Sandi said it very well with the boat comparision. I to did the same thing with boats. Bought an inexpensive one first and second and since have stepped up, spent more money purchased the top of the line manufacturers product and KNOW the differences first hand. Some of the more seasoned KNOW the differences in the tubs first hand but get accused of criticizing for simply defending the differences when a comparision is made.

Purchasing an inexpensive tub is a great thing. Comparing it to a more expensive tub is not!

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I have never ever criticized anyone for there purchase

This statement is laughable. :lol::lol::lol: Let's see how much truth there is in your post. In the thread

"Costco Infinity Or Discovery"

QUOTE(Wanna a tub @ Oct 21 2007, 03:23 PM)

I will admit I'am confused. I am on a budget and would like a spa. I was going to get one a Costco but now I'am not sure. I went to a local dealer Recreation Warehouse and I felt like I was getting ripped off. My neighbor had bought one through them for $4000.00 but when I went in the price went to $7000.00 and I still don't know the brand of tub. So much for local dealers!!! I just want a decent tub on a budget that want kill me on my electric bill. Anyone have the Infinity or Keys that is happy with it? Any suggestions for a tub? Help!! Thanks.

Your response

"Have you looked at Nordic or Great Lakes or the Everyday Line from D1? Or the @home tubs from Marquis. There are several lines of tubs that are made and sold through reputable dealers that will only cost you a little more or about the same as Costco's garbage tubs"

"Infinty Spa - Not From Costco, Ebay internet buying experience"

QUOTE(kengorman @ Sep 6 2007, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regarding the circulation pump, it is a monster. It's rated for up to 50 gallons per minute and weighs in at a hefty 15 lbs. Infinity definitely didn't throw a cheap pump into this tub.

Your response

"100-150 I get those 48 frame cookie cutter pump and motors for. But most I work on have them for primary jet pumps and they move 90-120 GPM, A 56 frame cookie cutter will go for 150-200. a bit more for the better ones. But you can also get them for up to 4-5 hundred. There are several levels of pump and motors out there."

"Keys Spa From Costco, Keys let me view theientire manufactring warehouse in TX"

QUOTE(jwillard @ Aug 6 2007, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All large retailers dictate to vendors...welcome to business 101. 20 years ago that might not have been the case but it is a completely different world out there now. .

Your Response

"Nope...they dictate price by commiting to quantitys and nothing more. The manufacturer dictates the product. This is closer to business 101. Costco says they will buy x amount and they will only pay this much each unit. Manufacturer says no problem and starts the assembly line as inexpensivly as possible to make there dollar.....simple.

Once a few years goes by and everyone gets there dollar, then the failure rate starts to rise and guess what? No warranty left....oops, let the buyer beware everyone is off the hook except the buyer. Costco gets a bunch of complaints and chooses another manufacturer, new and improved Platimum 4 made by ????????? who cares same outcome.

Welcome to the real world and don't let Costco Marketing fool you."

"Costco Discovery Ecstasy And Infinity Sun Peak Spa, Worth Buying?"

QUOTE(SpaSearchin @ Jul 10 2007, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm looking at these two spas, both from costco:

http://tinyurl.com/2n4e5a

AND

http://tinyurl.com/3y6556

They are cheaper than brand names their size; they seem pretty reasonable to me. Any experinces on these? Opinions?

Thanks!

-m

Your response

"Here's an opinion for you. They're exactly what they are, an inexpensive spa that may or may not last longer than 5 years. There fit and finish is poor and there energy consumption is high. They are noisy and just plain poorly built. There are several new owners here that will tell you they are the best thing since sliced bread, and as long as you go into it with open eyes you WILL save some money up front."

There seems to be an obvious pattern developing here IMO. All you do is criticize these tubs. No one is comparing them to a $10K, Oh wait lately you've been saying $8K tubs except you or DP Roberts. No one. If the forum wants to read any more of your independent unbiased opinions just do a search on Roger. It makes for great reading. :lol::lol:

Now I know your going to get mad. Just remember to put your caps lock on when you start yelling. :lol::lol::lol:

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OK, can we please stick to the topic of this post? I personally dont want to to be criticized for purchasing my Sun Peak or told what a mistake I made and should have bought another brand, I told you sos etc. The fact is is that we own it, and we like it. The purpose of this forum is to help one another and I have some questions. When the pump is on to heat the water is the water also being filtered at this time? If so, what is the purpose of having preset filtration cycles ie. 2hrs every 12 hours(the minimal to save energy)? We want to have the tub at a constant temp because we use it alot so economy is not an option. It seems that the pump is runing an awful lot. Is this normal? Looking for a helpful answer.

I have never ever criticized anyone for there purchase unless of course they pay 15,000 for an 8-9 thousand dollar spa. A top of the line well insulated spa with a proven record for longevity and dealer support can be had for 8 grand or less. The problem seems to be the comparision some seem to make to this 8 thousand dollar spa, that they somehow bought for 3-4 grand. Let's keep that in perspective. The bottom line is for 3-4 grand you get 3-4 grand worth of spa. For 8 grand you get 8 grand worth of spa.

Sandi said it very well with the boat comparision. I to did the same thing with boats. Bought an inexpensive one first and second and since have stepped up, spent more money purchased the top of the line manufacturers product and KNOW the differences first hand. Some of the more seasoned KNOW the differences in the tubs first hand but get accused of criticizing for simply defending the differences when a comparision is made.

Purchasing an inexpensive tub is a great thing. Comparing it to a more expensive tub is not!

I am not comparing tubs. This topic is about Infinity Tubs. Go back and read the first entry on this thread. I also wasnt accusing you Roger of criticising. Were you feeling guilty? Perhaps you could start your own thread for those that want to argue or have the last word. Count me out of that one. If you cant stick to the topic than dont post. You wont hear any more responses from me.

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This statement is laughable. :lol::lol::lol: Let's see how much truth there is in your post. In the thread

There seems to be an obvious pattern developing here IMO. All you do is criticize these tubs. No one is comparing them to a $10K, Oh wait lately you've been saying $8K tubs except you or DP Roberts. No one. If the forum wants to read any more of your independent unbiased opinions just do a search on Roger. It makes for great reading. :lol::lol:

Now I know your going to get mad. Just remember to put your caps lock on when you start yelling. :lol::lol::lol:

Speaking of laughable, it's amusing that you spent the time to go back and dig up my opinion of Hydrospa.....oh wait, they went out of business!! I stand by my opinion of the hydrospa and the infinity line and any big box store discount non dealer brand. Except the HS available at Costco.

They cost 3-4 grand and they are nothing more than an inexpensive tub with no dealer support. Any comparision o a top of the line tub will get commented on by me, now make sure you get back on topic there Z.

And by the way...I dout anyone is interested in your knowledge either. Or wait, your a new tub owner right.

Seems it takes less to get you mad then me....you forgot the caps though.

And for comparision purposes, do a search on biggz also to complete your laugh.

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Speaking of laughable, it's amusing that you spent the time to go back and dig up my opinion of Hydrospa.....oh wait, they went out of business!! I stand by my opinion of the hydrospa and the infinity line and any big box store discount non dealer brand. Except the HS available at Costco.

They cost 3-4 grand and they are nothing more than an inexpensive tub with no dealer support. Any comparision o a top of the line tub will get commented on by me, now make sure you get back on topic there Z.

And by the way...I dout anyone is interested in your knowledge either. Or wait, your a new tub owner right.

Seems it takes less to get you mad then me....you forgot the caps though.

And for comparision purposes, do a search on biggz also to complete your laugh.

Roger, Roger, Rodger, you lied and said that you never ever criticize anyone's purchase. I only wanted to point out the gross inaccuracy of your post. I doubt (spelled correctly) seriously that you are what you claim to be. An independent professional would not waste their time bashing the products that they claim to put money in their pocket. They wouldn't care. They wouldn't make idiotic comparisons to tubs costing 2 or 3 times as much. You alway bring up how long they'll last (5 years) knowing good and well (if you do) that old components could be replaced and upgraded . Your post read like your nothing more then a puppet of the spa dealers. That's fitting since "Mr Roger" was a puppeteer. :lol::lol: I read a post where you couldn't tell the difference between a jet pump and a circulation pump, and when you were pressed on your error you conveniently tried to change the subject to a elbow fitting in the line. I read another post where you claimed to service 100 of these tubs in your area. When it was pointed out that you statement made absolutely no sense you folded like a weak paper bag. The fact is your comments are well documented on this site for all to see. I don't claim to be a professional in this industry. I'm a new spa owner (Keys Backyard) who is very happy with my purchase. I thought I read somewhere that you don't own a tub. Why? A professional could build a fully functional tub from a shell. They would add the necessary components to get it up and running. Yes Mr Roger, you post is full of lies. Anyone that purchases a tub from a big box store will get there tubs serviced as per the warranty providing they don't void it. They don't need dealer support. They'll call the manufacturer and the manufacturer will send the service tech in their area. Let's just hope it's not you. :D

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Roger, Roger, Rodger, you lied and said that you never ever criticize anyone's purchase. I only wanted to point out the gross inaccuracy of your post. I doubt (spelled correctly) seriously that you are what you claim to be. An independent professional would not waste their time bashing the products that they claim to put money in their pocket. They wouldn't care. They wouldn't make idiotic comparisons to tubs costing 2 or 3 times as much. You alway bring up how long they'll last (5 years) knowing good and well (if you do) that old components could be replaced and upgraded . Your post read like your nothing more then a puppet of the spa dealers. That's fitting since "Mr Roger" was a puppeteer. :lol::lol: I read a post where you couldn't tell the difference between a jet pump and a circulation pump, and when you were pressed on your error you conveniently tried to change the subject to a elbow fitting in the line. I read another post where you claimed to service 100 of these tubs in your area. When it was pointed out that you statement made absolutely no sense you folded like a weak paper bag. The fact is your comments are well documented on this site for all to see. I don't claim to be a professional in this industry. I'm a new spa owner (Keys Backyard) who is very happy with my purchase. I thought I read somewhere that you don't own a tub. Why? A professional could build a fully functional tub from a shell. They would add the necessary components to get it up and running. Yes Mr Roger, you post is full of lies. Anyone that purchases a tub from a big box store will get there tubs serviced as per the warranty providing they don't void it. They don't need dealer support. They'll call the manufacturer and the manufacturer will send the service tech in their area. Let's just hope it's not you. :D

And so you reduce yourself to insults because you spent so much time in your previous posts telling everyone that you could not see any difference in your choice and the choice of others costing thousands more. It does not suprise me at all that a guy like you would buy the brand you did. And as far as service your right, I hope they don't call me either because like all the box store manufacturers I will have to argue with the customer and explain to them why they have to pay me. I repair, they pay me. If they want to chase the manufacturer for my reciept they can, but I won't. It's the same everytime, somehow guys like you and other big box customers seem to think it's my fault, I need payment to repair because the warranty they have isn't worth the paper it's wrote on. So I wish you luck in your first repair, come here for advice as you fix it yourself.

I give my opinion freely (you can call it bashing if you want) Seen it to many times to not mention it, a guy like you pays 3-4 grand for a tub they think is the same as the 7-8 thousand dollar dealer tub. And they purchased it thinking the differences were so minumal it wouldn't matter. Then 4-5 years go by and there tub is getting junky yet the 7-8 grand tub is still performing well and looking good. 5 more years go by and customers like you are paying through the nose to keep there tubs running or have purchased there second cheap...oops inexpensive tub. While the other is still going strong. But I digress you will drop off the radar in a year or so so we won't know a full opinion just your happy just purchased opinion.

I'll try (unlike you) to keep the insults to a minumum.

We'll see you in 5 years...no wait sorry I assumed again that you would be around then as your tub starts to deteriorate.

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Roger, Roger, Rodger, you lied and said that you never ever criticize anyone's purchase. I only wanted to point out the gross inaccuracy of your post. I doubt (spelled correctly) seriously that you are what you claim to be. An independent professional would not waste their time bashing the products that they claim to put money in their pocket. They wouldn't care. They wouldn't make idiotic comparisons to tubs costing 2 or 3 times as much. You alway bring up how long they'll last (5 years) knowing good and well (if you do) that old components could be replaced and upgraded . Your post read like your nothing more then a puppet of the spa dealers. That's fitting since "Mr Roger" was a puppeteer. :lol::lol: I read a post where you couldn't tell the difference between a jet pump and a circulation pump, and when you were pressed on your error you conveniently tried to change the subject to a elbow fitting in the line. I read another post where you claimed to service 100 of these tubs in your area. When it was pointed out that you statement made absolutely no sense you folded like a weak paper bag. The fact is your comments are well documented on this site for all to see. I don't claim to be a professional in this industry. I'm a new spa owner (Keys Backyard) who is very happy with my purchase. I thought I read somewhere that you don't own a tub. Why? A professional could build a fully functional tub from a shell. They would add the necessary components to get it up and running. Yes Mr Roger, you post is full of lies. Anyone that purchases a tub from a big box store will get there tubs serviced as per the warranty providing they don't void it. They don't need dealer support. They'll call the manufacturer and the manufacturer will send the service tech in their area. Let's just hope it's not you. :D

I'll try (unlike you) to keep the insults to a minumum.

We'll see you in 5 years...no wait sorry I assumed again that you would be around then as your tub starts to deteriorate.

Roger, I'm sorry if you took my post as an insult. I wanted to point out that you do criticize puchases or potential purchases of big box tubs. Mr Rogers was one of our nations greatest educators. See Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers

I guess you just didn't know that. Anyway your right, "Mr Roger". your righttttttttt. :D

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Im pretty sure I called you out, Roger, on the Gatsby bashing just to see you back down in a hurry. Im not sure what your agenda is, but your story smells fishy. I know for one as a tech myself, I try not to downgrade anyones purchase, and dont go out of my way to make my face to face customer feel like crap about buying something nice for their family. All are money in my pocket when it comes to service, chems, etc. You dont outright lie, you just twist what you know when you spout off. You lumped Gatsby into your previous run in with me, without really knowing what you were talking about, found someone who did know about the company in question, and didnt back down to the bullying.

So what I have to question, what do you really know about the company in question for this topic or are you just shooting from the hip again, shotgun style and blasting anything that isnt part of your hidden agenda?

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Roger, Roger, Rodger, you lied and said that you never ever criticize anyone's purchase. I only wanted to point out the gross inaccuracy of your post. I doubt (spelled correctly) seriously that you are what you claim to be. An independent professional would not waste their time bashing the products that they claim to put money in their pocket. They wouldn't care. They wouldn't make idiotic comparisons to tubs costing 2 or 3 times as much. You alway bring up how long they'll last (5 years) knowing good and well (if you do) that old components could be replaced and upgraded . Your post read like your nothing more then a puppet of the spa dealers. That's fitting since "Mr Roger" was a puppeteer. :lol::lol: I read a post where you couldn't tell the difference between a jet pump and a circulation pump, and when you were pressed on your error you conveniently tried to change the subject to a elbow fitting in the line. I read another post where you claimed to service 100 of these tubs in your area. When it was pointed out that you statement made absolutely no sense you folded like a weak paper bag. The fact is your comments are well documented on this site for all to see. I don't claim to be a professional in this industry. I'm a new spa owner (Keys Backyard) who is very happy with my purchase. I thought I read somewhere that you don't own a tub. Why? A professional could build a fully functional tub from a shell. They would add the necessary components to get it up and running. Yes Mr Roger, you post is full of lies. Anyone that purchases a tub from a big box store will get there tubs serviced as per the warranty providing they don't void it. They don't need dealer support. They'll call the manufacturer and the manufacturer will send the service tech in their area. Let's just hope it's not you. :D

I'll try (unlike you) to keep the insults to a minumum.

We'll see you in 5 years...no wait sorry I assumed again that you would be around then as your tub starts to deteriorate.

Roger, I'm sorry if you took my post as an insult. I wanted to point out that you do criticize puchases or potential purchases of big box tubs. Mr Rogers was one of our nations greatest educators. See Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers

I guess you just didn't know that. Anyway your right, "Mr Roger". your righttttttttt. :D

I didn't take the post as an insult at all. The fact that you called me a liar a pupeteer and corrected my spelling shows me you are upset. But I won't resort to your tactics of insult, of you personaly. You may be a nice guy, who knows and who cares. A speck of internet dust with to much time on his hands. And you seem to have a vast knowledge that us who have been around tubs for years should admire. After all you bought a 8 thousand dollar tub for 4 grand. I read it in one of your past post's! You feel the dealers are ripping people off and stores like Walmart and Costco are going to take over the world because of that fact. I guess we will both see.

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Costco and Sam's stores do sell some products at a reduced price, that is a fact. I have a friend that works for Sam's club at a corporate level. I don't remember all the numbers, but he has given us the breakdown on what they make or don't make on certain items. He, also, informed me how to tell which items are basically "lost leaders", which items will have further markdowns, etc. based on coding built into an item's price. It is a fact that these stores make a great deal of their money on their memberships. Other than one silly person on this site that thinks he's the "big box store" avenger, I haven't seen anyone say the spa they purchased from Sam's, walmart or Costco is a top of the line spa at a fraction of it's "real" cost. I have seen educated consumers who took the time to research spas on an online forum, make a decision to buy the best tub for them. They have every right to share their experiences and opinions on a spa that they personally own. Right now, we are shopping for an inversion table. They range anywhere for $150 to $2,000. We have no idea how much relief my husband will receive from one of these tables. While I could easily write a check for $2k to buy one, I am not going to do so. I'm sure the $2,000 table is a fantastic, quality made item. I'm not ready to invest that. Good for the person that is. I have shopped tables and found one at Sam's for $149.00 that I can't find anywhere else for less than $249.00. We are buying that item at Sam's club today. Is my $149 inversion table from Sam's the same as the $2,000 table, no. Is it exactly the same as the $249 and up table, yes. So, buying at Sam's, I don't think I am getting a $2k table for $149. I know that I am getting a $249 to $279 table for $149. I think biggz and other "big box" spa purchasers are trying to say that they can soak in warm water in their tub, just like someone can soak in warm water in a $10,000 spa. Will they be the exact same soaks, no. Different strokes for different folks. I'm just glad they are getting to enjoy a spa. Everyone's needs are different. Half the time, we sit in the tub with everything off, just staring at the stars. I know biggz and others here can do this in their tubs too. It is possible that they can enjoy their $3k spa as much as I can enjoy my $7k spa, and I can enjoy mine as much as someone that spent $10k.

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I didn't take the post as an insult at all. The fact that you called me a liar a pupeteer and corrected my spelling shows me you are upset. But I won't resort to your tactics of insult, of you personaly. You may be a nice guy, who knows and who cares. A speck of internet dust with to much time on his hands. And you seem to have a vast knowledge that us who have been around tubs for years should admire. After all you bought a 8 thousand dollar tub for 4 grand. I read it in one of your past post's! You feel the dealers are ripping people off and stores like Walmart and Costco are going to take over the world because of that fact. I guess we will both see.

Mr Roger, When you say

"I have never ever criticized anyone for there purchase unless of course they pay 15,000 for an 8-9 thousand dollar spa."

that's a lie. I've provided the forum with proof.

When you say

"I need payment to repair because the warranty they have isn't worth the paper it's wrote on."

that's another lie, since some big box buyers who have had issues have had there tubs repaired or returned without incident.

Oct 24 2007, 03:41 PM Post #3

TV tub Guy

QUOTE(TinyBubbles @ Oct 24 2007, 10:49 AM)

Did you get a 100% refund from Costco? If so, that is great! Kudos to the jacuzzi dealer for returning the tub for you. That had to be a huge help. Let us know how you like your new tub.

"$9259 returned for the tub. The Jacuzzi tub is $200 more. Both tubs are the same size. The Infinity has more jets but they are mostly small jets. The Infinity had a 19 inch Polaroid tv. It was horrible quality. The Infinity had a JVC stereo. It seemed to be decent quality but was oversensitive to moisture and would only work some of the time. The Jacuzzi has a nice simple stereo, supposedly designed by BOSE. I really want simpicity and reliabiltiy out of the next tub. I love to sit in the tub at night and look at the stars on a clear night. There is something about being outside under the night sky. It sounds stupid but I enjoy watching the lights of planes overhead. It is very relaxing especially with a glass of wine. "

When you say

"After all you bought a 8 thousand dollar tub for 4 grand. I read it in one of your past post's! You feel the dealers are ripping people off and stores like Walmart and Costco are going to take over the world because of that fact."

that's a 3rd lie.

Sep 23 2007, 01:14 PM Post #2

biggz

"PowerNoodle, I didn't want my post to sound like a bash on the Vita dealer. They have to work with what they have. In fact I'm not hear to bash any dealer or business person on this site. We all have to eat and as I said, If there was a larger selection of tubs in my price range, I would probably by from the dealer. It makes good sense, but unfortunately I didn't see many tubs at the dealers that I could afford unless I was buying a tub for 2 or 3 people.

I remember when the big box stores didn't exist. People bought from their local neighborhood vendors. I also remember being ripped off by some stores who tried to balance their books on every customer that walked through the door. Those days are over. Big box means competition for all vendors who's product the big box sells. I think there's probably truth to some of the quality concerns presented here, but for some posters to bash a guy who's only trying to get the best deal for his or her family is self serving. I see many post from people who bought the "High End" tubs with problems. What happened there? They have the same issues that the Big Box buyers have but paid substantially more for their tubs. How do we know if this is an anomaly. I'd be embarrassed to pay over 7K and have a leak issue or a malfunctioning pump or controller. If my analysis is wrong please show me where. Don't be like some posters (104 Degrees) who brings nothing positive to a serious discussion."

I didn't call you a puppeteer, I said "Your post read like your nothing more then a puppet of the spa dealers. That's fitting since "Mr Roger" was a puppeteer." As far as your spelling goes, your lack of discipline indicates that you don't pay much attention to the small details. Is that the way you repair tubs too? We are all provided a spell checker on this site yet you choose not to use it. I find it frightening that you claim to work in a nuclear power plant. :o I'd move out of your state with these gross examples of laziness. :P I'm not upset, in fact I find this thread quite entertaining. :lol:

Oh by the way the internet doesn't have dust. It has bits. 010101. Just wanted to clear that up for you. :D

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Roger, you are member #8! You have been here for almost 3 years making 2 posts per day!

In the near future, where the money will be made is not in selling the Spas, but in servicing them. The spa I wanted was 13,00$, and I got the guy down to 11,500 and a top-lift (that was in July). In September the same spa was at the same dealer WITH the lift for 9000!!! That made me really mad! IF I would have bought it... I would have been pissed off! So when the delivery truck came to drop off my Infinity tub, it was actually a FULL semi-trailer unit and it had 14 CostCo tubs in it. All 14 tubs were being delivered in my side of town all within 5 miles of each other. Thats 14 tubs the dealers were not able to sell, because they are charging too much. Dealers are not "ripping people off", they are just have not realized the market has changed and they must adjust their prices.

When I fill the tub and hooked it up, one pump didn't work, so I called Infinity. They gave me a # of a dealer to call, and they were FANTASTIC, they came on a Friday night at 7pm to fix it!!! So I guess I have dealer support after all :)

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Costco and Sam's stores do sell some products at a reduced price, that is a fact. I have a friend that works for Sam's club at a corporate level. I don't remember all the numbers, but he has given us the breakdown on what they make or don't make on certain items. He, also, informed me how to tell which items are basically "lost leaders", which items will have further markdowns, etc. based on coding built into an item's price. It is a fact that these stores make a great deal of their money on their memberships. Other than one silly person on this site that thinks he's the "big box store" avenger, I haven't seen anyone say the spa they purchased from Sam's, walmart or Costco is a top of the line spa at a fraction of it's "real" cost. I have seen educated consumers who took the time to research spas on an online forum, make a decision to buy the best tub for them. They have every right to share their experiences and opinions on a spa that they personally own. Right now, we are shopping for an inversion table. They range anywhere for $150 to $2,000. We have no idea how much relief my husband will receive from one of these tables. While I could easily write a check for $2k to buy one, I am not going to do so. I'm sure the $2,000 table is a fantastic, quality made item. I'm not ready to invest that. Good for the person that is. I have shopped tables and found one at Sam's for $149.00 that I can't find anywhere else for less than $249.00. We are buying that item at Sam's club today. Is my $149 inversion table from Sam's the same as the $2,000 table, no. Is it exactly the same as the $249 and up table, yes. So, buying at Sam's, I don't think I am getting a $2k table for $149. I know that I am getting a $249 to $279 table for $149. I think biggz and other "big box" spa purchasers are trying to say that they can soak in warm water in their tub, just like someone can soak in warm water in a $10,000 spa. Will they be the exact same soaks, no. Different strokes for different folks. I'm just glad they are getting to enjoy a spa. Everyone's needs are different. Half the time, we sit in the tub with everything off, just staring at the stars. I know biggz and others here can do this in their tubs too. It is possible that they can enjoy their $3k spa as much as I can enjoy my $7k spa, and I can enjoy mine as much as someone that spent $10k.

Tiny, Your exactly right. We be tubbin baby tubbin!! :lol:

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