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Circulation Pumps?


m3722

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Neither would I but fortunately I didn't say that, you just misread it. I was saying that because you don't have a circ pump you use a 2-speed pump to filter for 6 hrs/day. A 2-speed pump will not last as long as a single speed jet pump that doesn't have to be used 6 hrs/day. See what I mean? This is another circluar argument.

I'm getting dizzy.

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Neither would I but fortunately I didn't say that, you just misread it. I was saying that because you don't have a circ pump you use a 2-speed pump to filter for 6 hrs/day. A 2-speed pump will not last as long as a single speed jet pump that doesn't have to be used 6 hrs/day. See what I mean? This is another circluar argument.

I understand the logic however the pump is not going to die as fast and not have to be replaced as often. When it does have to be replaced it is half the price but the 2-3hr cycle pump has to be changed twice as long.

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I understand the logic however the pump is not going to die as fast and not have to be replaced as often. When it does have to be replaced it is half the price but the 2-3hr cycle pump has to be changed twice as long.

we have a lot of customers whose circ pumps are over 10 years old and still running.

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we have a lot of customers whose circ pumps are over 10 years old and still running.

6-8 years on average. Some times as little as 4-5 and sometimes as much as 8-10 About the same as a jet pump.

Now I am also dizzy!!!

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Circ pumps cost less to run and replace than a jet pump. Not to mention quieter and having the constant circulation and filtration benefits. If circ pumps were failing so much, your leading manufacturers would dump the idea so they could spend less on making the spa and increase their profit margains. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it is better to have a circ pump than not.

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Circ pumps cost less to run and replace than a jet pump. Not to mention quieter and having the constant circulation and filtration benefits. If circ pumps were failing so much, your leading manufacturers would dump the idea so they could spend less on making the spa and increase their profit margains. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it is better to have a circ pump than not.

I think this post is now dead, hopefully.

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Circ pumps cost less to run and replace than a jet pump. Not to mention quieter and having the constant circulation and filtration benefits. If circ pumps were failing so much, your leading manufacturers would dump the idea so they could spend less on making the spa and increase their profit margains. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it is better to have a circ pump than not.

Ummm OK instead of ending this thread on this note I would like to ask our poster grahamsia which method he thinks moves more water a circ pump or a jet pump.

My point is and I think this whole thread says is that either method is a good way to filter water. A small circulation pump moving less water that a jet pump is adequete. A jet pump cycling 2-4 times a day for 4-8 hours is also adequete. A circ pump is quieter during operating, a jet pump moves more water. It's a toss up on the rest of the downsides and bennys. the 24 hour ozone as ST pointed out seems to be an upside for a circ pump that the jet pump won't be able to match. But I think the longevity of a jet pump over a circ pump also will be tough for a circ pump to overcome......again a dizzying argument that IMO is a toss up and a non issue.

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Ummm OK instead of ending this thread on this note I would like to ask our poster grahamsia which method he thinks moves more water a circ pump or a jet pump.

My point is and I think this whole thread says is that either method is a good way to filter water. A small circulation pump moving less water that a jet pump is adequete. A jet pump cycling 2-4 times a day for 4-8 hours is also adequete. A circ pump is quieter during operating, a jet pump moves more water. It's a toss up on the rest of the downsides and bennys. the 24 hour ozone as ST pointed out seems to be an upside for a circ pump that the jet pump won't be able to match. But I think the longevity of a jet pump over a circ pump also will be tough for a circ pump to overcome......again a dizzying argument that IMO is a toss up and a non issue.

Moving less water with a smaller pump over a longer period of time might be adequate, but it certainly does mean you are filtering less water that way. That being said little circ pump simply filters and circulates less water in a 24 hour period thus being inferior to a larger pump filtering and circulating more water. No arguement or opinion, just fact plain and simple. So to answer the question do you need a circ pump...absolutely not unless it is in addition to having a larger pump doing filter cycling as well. Personally I think a circ pump would make a fine ozone circulator, but would never consider having it as a main source of filtration.

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Moving less water with a smaller pump over a longer period of time might be adequate, but it certainly does mean you are filtering less water that way. That being said little circ pump simply filters and circulates less water in a 24 hour period thus being inferior to a larger pump filtering and circulating more water. No arguement or opinion, just fact plain and simple. So to answer the question do you need a circ pump...absolutely not unless it is in addition to having a larger pump doing filter cycling as well. Personally I think a circ pump would make a fine ozone circulator, but would never consider having it as a main source of filtration.

I would disagree. There are different types of circulation pumps. Using a 24 hr. circ pump with a 35 gpm capacity will filter more water in a day than a 5-9gpm circ pump @ 24hrs and a 165 gpm pump running @ 2 hours per day.

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I would disagree. There are different types of circulation pumps. Using a 24 hr. circ pump with a 35 gpm capacity will filter more water in a day than a 5-9gpm circ pump @ 24hrs and a 165 gpm pump running @ 2 hours per day.

Doing the math using your figures, however you need to figure 4 hours minimum daily filtering time for a non-circ pump spa. The circ pump spa: 9 gpm x 60 minutes x 24 hours per day = total water movement of 12,960 gallons moved at a minute rate of 9 gpm and 540 gallons per hour. The non-circ pump spa: 165 gpm x 60 minutes x 4 hours per day =39,600 gallons per day nearly 300 percent more water moved per day than a small circ pump. You also get much more water movement within the spa with a larger pump. The couple advantages I do see with a small circ pump is that you get some energy savings and have ozone injection 100% of the time other than that it is an inferior spa filtering method. If youv'e got tub like this, don't feel bad it isn't a bad setup, its just not as good as using a larger pump system.

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The couple advantages I do see with a small circ pump is that you get some energy savings and have ozone injection 100% of the time other than that it is an inferior spa filtering method. If youv'e got tub like this, don't feel bad it isn't a bad setup, its just not as good as using a larger pump system.

I agree with what is I see as a big key which is the advantage of 24-hr ozone with the circ pump and the cost to run it is probably not a big deal either way but as far as inferior filtering of the circ pump, it's only inferior if that amount of filtering isn't sufficient. The 2-speed pump will certainly filter more but is that necessary? I say no and my spa (which gets huge usage in my house) gets by just fine with filtering from the circ pump. I tell those with a 2-speed pump that they should be able to run the pump only 2 hrs/day, I don't see the need for 4 hrs/day and because of that I don't see the 2-speed pump as being so superior for filtering . It simply filters the water quicker but either filter it sufficiently IMO.

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Doing the math using your figures, however you need to figure 4 hours minimum daily filtering time for a non-circ pump spa. The circ pump spa: 9 gpm x 60 minutes x 24 hours per day = total water movement of 12,960 gallons moved at a minute rate of 9 gpm and 540 gallons per hour. The non-circ pump spa: 165 gpm x 60 minutes x 4 hours per day =39,600 gallons per day nearly 300 percent more water moved per day than a small circ pump. You also get much more water movement within the spa with a larger pump. The couple advantages I do see with a small circ pump is that you get some energy savings and have ozone injection 100% of the time other than that it is an inferior spa filtering method. If youv'e got tub like this, don't feel bad it isn't a bad setup, its just not as good as using a larger pump system.

Ok, here is the math.

9gpm circ pump + 2hour low speed filtration @165gpm = 32,760 <--unless it is a Hotspring, there can be water bypassing the filter

165 gpm pump @ 4 hours low speed filtration = 39,600 <---unless it is a Hotspring, there can be water bypassing the filter

35gpm circ pump @ 24 hours filtration = 50,400 <---All of this water is being filtered with no bypass if done like Sundance

I agree, the small circ pumps are not that great. But, a 48 frame, 35gpm circ pump does a great job at filtering wihtout ever having to turn the main pumps on.

btw, I am not sure if you can get 165gpm out of 2 speed pump on low speed. Maybe someone can get a more accurate number.

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Forget the math....forget the debate. If one chooses a spa because of a circ pump or not, then one is missing the whole point of owning a spa. Both systems will keep water clean if the owner does his/her job. Therapy and dealer comfort are the keys....everything else is gum flapping.....

Please put a fork in this thread....

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Therapy and dealer comfort are the keys....everything else is gum flapping.....

Not always. Price, options, ease of use are all reasons why people buy tubs.

For example, Hotspring filters all the water before it gets to the components. There are benefits and drawbacks to this design. Do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks?

Sundance uses a disposable filter. There are benefits and drawbacks. Do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks?

Many people do not care about therapy. Some just want a tub to entertain. Some just want a cheap tub to put at a second home.

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Not always. Price, options, ease of use are all reasons why people buy tubs.

For example, Hotspring filters all the water before it gets to the components. There are benefits and drawbacks to this design. Do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks?

Sundance uses a disposable filter. There are benefits and drawbacks. Do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks?

Many people do not care about therapy. Some just want a tub to entertain. Some just want a cheap tub to put at a second home.

Could you explain what the drawbacks are to 100% filtration.

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Having to deal with 5 filters. The pumps are only as strong as the filters are clean.

Very little water movement if the main pumps are not run.

The 3 to 5 filters (varying) in a HotSpring are PRECISELY it's strong point!

What do filters do?

THEY TRAP HAIR, DIRT, DEAD SKIN, DEBRIS

What do bypass valves do?

THEY ALLOW HAIR, DIRT, DEAD SKIN, DEBRIS INTO THE SPA'S INTERNAL COMPONENTS

My customers prefer to have dirty filters and clean water and clean equipment.

Other dealers' customers evidently prefer to have somewhat dirty filters and somewhat dirty water and somewhat dirty equipment.

Which customers are getting the short end of the stick?

:)

Terminator

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The 3 to 5 filters (varying) in a HotSpring are PRECISELY it's strong point!

What do filters do?

THEY TRAP HAIR, DIRT, DEAD SKIN, DEBRIS

What do bypass valves do?

THEY ALLOW HAIR, DIRT, DEAD SKIN, DEBRIS INTO THE SPA'S INTERNAL COMPONENTS

My customers prefer to have dirty filters and clean water and clean equipment.

Other dealers' customers evidently prefer to have somewhat dirty filters and somewhat dirty water and somewhat dirty equipment.

Which customers are getting the short end of the stick?

:)

Terminator

I don't think anyone is getting the short end of the stick, and nobody is at the top either. There is no perfect system. Perhaps if one manufacturer could put aside paradisms for once and look at the best features of all being used. Then develop a system utilizing all the best attributes of all that exist. Boy couldn't that create some good debates, just deciding which are best? I admit that it would be hard for any company to do.

100% filtration is great although I believe it works better when you use the cleanup mode and a larger pump works on low speed to filter for about 4 hours. The little circ pump moves so little water in the spa it takes a long time to get the water clean otherwise, hence the 24/7 operation. If the circ pump was the beat all system they wouldn't put a cleanup mode on the spa. One design change that I can see might help the circ pump work better would be an intake located located near the bottom of the tub. Particulates in the water will be heavier than water so creating some movement and adding a water intake from the bottom of the spa would allow the particulates to sucked in and then be filtered through that awesome 3-5 filter system. Obviously both of these designs are doing the job but there is always room for improvement.

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No matter what is developed there will always be someone selling against it and saying, "thats not the best way to do it." Everyone looks at things differently and when I tell people what I think is best I dont think for one second that everyone is going to agree with my opinion or that they should for that matter. I have been wrong, ONCE. :D Thats what makes these debates great.

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The 3 to 5 filters (varying) in a HotSpring are PRECISELY it's strong point!

What do filters do?

THEY TRAP HAIR, DIRT, DEAD SKIN, DEBRIS

What do bypass valves do?

THEY ALLOW HAIR, DIRT, DEAD SKIN, DEBRIS INTO THE SPA'S INTERNAL COMPONENTS

My customers prefer to have dirty filters and clean water and clean equipment.

Other dealers' customers evidently prefer to have somewhat dirty filters and somewhat dirty water and somewhat dirty equipment.

Which customers are getting the short end of the stick?

:)

Terminator

Exactly....and the same logic can be used for a car engine. Which would be better, 100% air filter or a couple by-pass filters to allow better air flow for better performance (but also allow dirt into the engine).

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Circ pumps cost less to run and replace than a jet pump. Not to mention quieter and having the constant circulation and filtration benefits. If circ pumps were failing so much, your leading manufacturers would dump the idea so they could spend less on making the spa and increase their profit margains. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it is better to have a circ pump than not.

Simply put your an idiot. It is obvious you do not have the ability to even recognize both the benefits as well as the short comings to either.

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Simply put your idiot. It is obvious you do not have the ability to even recognize both the benefits as well as the short comings to either way.

I only speak from experience, I have 18 spas up and running in 4 differant locations, they all have circ pumps, they need no programing, they are always clean and ready to use, some have ozone some do not, we use small amounts of chlorine in them every couple of days. I have sold one or two, nobody has complained about any water issues, but they do tell me they love their spas.

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