Pros And Cons Of Master Spa

[Wmartin]

What about ball bearings in jets? One detractor said the jets have ball bearings and dont last.

[Guzz]

Guzz, thanks you have been helpful this post. I must ask though, since maybe I didnt write the post well, Master will do it either way, foam filled, or non foam filled, at the same price. Saying its a "non issue for them" simple meant they will do it anyway I want them to do it (with no upcharge).

How is that a sales line? I think thats awesome.

It's a sales line because he already has the full foam built into the price. It just makes his deal seem sweeter.

[thestallion]

Guzz, thanks you have been helpful this post. I must ask though, since maybe I didnt write the post well, Master will do it either way, foam filled, or non foam filled, at the same price. Saying its a "non issue for them" simple meant they will do it anyway I want them to do it (with no upcharge).

How is that a sales line? I think thats awesome.

I would say make a commitment to what you as a builder truly feels works the best, I mean you must know and how can offering them both can either really work right as the cabinet would need to be built differently for each. I find it a genuine shame to do this as I think that is just telling someone what they want to hear instead of doing what you truly feel is best.

[Brulan1]

I would say make a commitment to what you as a builder truly feels works the best, I mean you must know and how can offering them both can either really work right as the cabinet would need to be built differently for each. I find it a genuine shame to do this as I think that is just telling someone what they want to hear instead of doing what you truly feel is best.

Excellent point captain

[Larry]

WARNING BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING A SPA FROM WEST CHESTER SPAS IN WEST CHESTER PA.

We placed a deposit of $4200.00 on an LSX1050 Master Spa at a spa show at the Valley Forge Convention Center held by West Chester Spas. This was a new 2006 model with no extras added just the base unit new from the factory. The salesperson explained the many jets and features of the unit including the shoulder jet seats. It seamed like the perfect spa for us being we both have issues with our shoulder muscles since being involved in a serious auto accident several months ago. Although the salesman never asked us to get into the unit to see if we were comfortable in the shoulder jet seats, he did say that there was a male and a female sized shoulder jet seat, so we figured they should be fine.

1 week later at a home show we saw another dealer of the same products and decided to see if the prices were similar between dealers (this dealer was over 50 miles away from our home). After some brief conversation the first thing this sales rep asked us to do was to sit in the different spas to see how nice they felt and fit. We realized the shoulder jets of the LSX1050 on the male seat did not fit my shoulders as my shoulders would only fit if I slid my butt all they way out to the edge of the seat. I am 6’ 220 but a long upper torso. We did get a price from this dealer on the LSX1050 and found the price very close to one we already had.

I contacted West Chester Spas and asked to take a wet test of the unit I placed a deposit on to make sure it was the same wet as dry. The next day I did so and found that I did not fit under the shoulder jets. The following day I contacted the owner Larry Granger and told him the problem.

He is where the problem starts. I was told he would not refund my whole deposit. He said he had already paid a $1600.00 commission on the sale and I had to take a store credit for that amount. If I agreed to take a store credit for the $1600.00 then he would credit my credit card for the balance of the $4200.00 deposit. If I did not agree, he would not credit my credit card for anything and I would be on my own to the fight to get my deposit back.

I can’t believe that the owner would not be able to recover a sales commission from his employee since the spa was never delivered. I also can’t believe that he would offer a $1600.00 store credit if he could not recover the sales commission. If my math is correct this would cost him the $1600.00 commission plus the value of the goods I purchased unless he would be able to recover the sales commission but just didn’t want to lose a sale. If this all seams strange to you, it certainly is confusing to the credit card company that I am disputing the charge with. Do you think this is someone who is interested in customer satisfaction or just his bottom line, you decide!

Soreback purchased a spa from us at a spa show and he subsequently decided that he did not want to follow through with his purchase and he wanted his deposit back. The request to have his deposit refunded was made over a week after he purchased his spa. The front of contract above the sale total clearly states that “All Sales are Final – No Returns – Deposits are Not Refundable”. The back of the contract restates this. Soreback did not come into the store for over a week to wet test his spa and when he did he said nothing to the sales person about the spa not fitting him. It was after this wet test that he called to cancel, well after the 3 days that Pennsylvania allows by law to void a contract.

At the show we used independent sales contractors and as a part of their contract they are to be paid their commissions in full at the completion of the show on all sales that do not have contingencies written on the contract. Had Soreback said that he wanted to wet test the spa first we would have written this contingency on his contract and his deposit would have been refunded in full after his wet test when he decided that he didn’t like the spa.

We offered to refund his deposit, less commissions already paid, in the form of a store credit. Soreback declined this offer. We are trying to resolve this issue in a way that is fair to all parties.

Soreback has filed a claim with the BBB and we are working with BBB to resolve this claim. Should the BBB find that Soreback should receive his deposit back in full we will abide by that decision. Soreback paid his deposit with a credit card and he is disputing this charge, should the credit card company find that we are in the wrong we will refund his deposit.

[spa Dr.]

Icynene foam vs urethane foam. Icynene costs twice as much, and doesn't lose its R-value like the urethane foam does. Everybody knows that full-foam is just a cheap way to reinforce a thin, weak shell. Try to find a leak down the road. Masters cabinet is indestructable, but some cabinets do look nicer. Eco-pur filtration filters water to drinking water standards per NSF. Does microclean? If you really think that G90 automotive-grade galvanized steel is cheaper than wood, you need to come down to reality. If you think that wood is stronger than steel, where are all the skyscrapers and bridges built out of wood? I mean give me a brake, we aren't talking about the steel studs you use to frame a wall (flimsy). We are talking about real G90 steel. It's lighter, stronger, and way more expensive than any wood anywhere. If you want to talk about a spa company building a cheaper spa and commanding more profits, how about putting less features on it, and just saying it's "better-built." All the extra features on a Master Spa cost money, therefore making the spa cost more to build.

What does NSF mean?

[Brulan1]

What does NSF mean?

You are right about automotive steel being stronger and anyone who thinks wood is stronger better go get there head checked. Also What does NSF mean? Natural Spa Filter?

[spa Dr.]

You are right about automotive steel being stronger and anyone who thinks wood is stronger better go get there head checked. Also What does NSF mean? Natural Spa Filter?

the sales pitch says that "with this filter system your spa water will meet the NSF STANDARD of drinking water". Brulan you seem to be uneducated and making a guess.Doed anyone know what the NSF means or if there is even a NSF?

[Guzz]

the sales pitch says that "with this filter system your spa water will meet the NSF STANDARD of drinking water". Brulan you seem to be uneducated and making a guess.Doed anyone know what the NSF means or if there is even a NSF?

try this http://www.nsf.org/

[spa Dr.]

try this http://www.nsf.org/

Thank you.

[Wmartin]

Well.....

One feature ended up being the deciding factor for me, that was the wet test. I could not fit under the Master Spa shoulder jets (I am 6'1 with a long torso) in the 850. I could have gone up to the LSX2 (dont want a lounge) for the extreme set, but then would have had 2 shoulder seats in that I couldn't use as well. Cant see paying the $$$ for that spa and not being able to use 2 seats.

As far as jet pressure the Optima was comparable to the Master, which surprised me. The foot massage was terrific, I was afraid its (foot massage) location would make it prone to repair but the 190lb salesman leaped from the top of the spa onto it and my concerns were immediately eliminated. A secondary reason was the openess of the Sundance Spa. My kids will move around in the more open Optima vs the LSX.

Had I been able to fit under the shoulder jets of The Master, I would have gone with Master. The jets and the extreme seat are great, I buy into the steel frame no foam theorey especially since they will foam it for me if wanted (I dont see it as being non committable, I see it being service oriented). The lights are certainly secondary, but I liked them as well and wish the Sundance had a similar option. I also like the retailers very much, professional and well informed. The first and only offer on the spa was very fairly priced.

Both retailers were very professional. The guys ion the show floor who trashed other companies were out with me if that means anything to anyone on these boards who is in the retail.

I thank everyone on the boards for there help

[Brulan1]

the sales pitch says that "with this filter system your spa water will meet the NSF STANDARD of drinking water". Brulan you seem to be uneducated and making a guess.Doed anyone know what the NSF means or if there is even a NSF?

Is that the question?

[sharkman009]

Well.....

One feature ended up being the deciding factor for me, that was the wet test. I could not fit under the Master Spa shoulder jets (I am 6'1 with a long torso) in the 850. I could have gone up to the LSX2 (dont want a lounge) for the extreme set, but then would have had 2 shoulder seats in that I couldn't use as well. Cant see paying the $$$ for that spa and not being able to use 2 seats.

As far as jet pressure the Optima was comparable to the Master, which surprised me. The foot massage was terrific, I was afraid its (foot massage) location would make it prone to repair but the 190lb salesman leaped from the top of the spa onto it and my concerns were immediately eliminated. A secondary reason was the openess of the Sundance Spa. My kids will move around in the more open Optima vs the LSX.

Had I been able to fit under the shoulder jets of The Master, I would have gone with Master. The jets and the extreme seat are great, I buy into the steel frame no foam theorey especially since they will foam it for me if wanted (I dont see it as being non committable, I see it being service oriented). The lights are certainly secondary, but I liked them as well and wish the Sundance had a similar option. I also like the retailers very much, professional and well informed. The first and only offer on the spa was very fairly priced.

Both retailers were very professional. The guys ion the show floor who trashed other companies were out with me if that means anything to anyone on these boards who is in the retail.

I thank everyone on the boards for there help

You picked a great spa. Sundance is a good company with a great warranty.

[thestallion]

Had I been able to fit under the shoulder jets of The Master, I would have gone with Master. The jets and the extreme seat are great, I buy into the steel frame no foam theorey especially since they will foam it for me if wanted (I dont see it as being non committable, I see it being service oriented). The lights are certainly secondary, but I liked them as well and wish the Sundance had a similar option. I also like the retailers very much, professional and well informed. The first and only offer on the spa was very fairly priced.

Both retailers were very professional. The guys ion the show floor who trashed other companies were out with me if that means anything to anyone on these boards who is in the retail.

I thank everyone on the boards for there help

Congratulations on your new spa . I was wondering if you could please help me out here with the offer of both types of insulation. You and I certainly see this in different ways. My point is as a builder you know which way works better and if you do not you should. Assuming that they know which they feel is better. Than outside of basically trying to tell someone what they want to hear instead of saying we believe this to be the better way so this is how we build our product. How do you see it as being service oriented ? I am genuinely hoping to understand as I must be missing something. Again I am not saying one is the best or only way but each builder knows how they feel with their design which works the best.

[Roger]

You are right about automotive steel being stronger and anyone who thinks wood is stronger better go get there head checked. Also What does NSF mean? Natural Spa Filter?

Take a 2x4 and try and bend it over your knee. Try the same with a 16 gage sheet metal 2x4 stud. Then get your head examined.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Take a 2x4 and try and bend it over your knee. Try the same with a 16 gage sheet metal 2x4 stud. Then get your head examined.

Yup!

[JOKERSOAKER]

You picked a great spa. Sundance is a good company with a great warranty.

WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT A SUNDANCE WARRANTY WHEN THE JETS ON THE OPTIMA ARE ONLY COVERED UNDER WARRANTY FOR 2 YEARS WHEN MOST MANUFACTURERS LIKE MASTER SPAS HAVE A 5 YEAR JET WARRANTY? READ THE SUNDANCE WARRANTY BEFORE U POST NEXT TIME? TO THE GUY THAT BOUGHT AN OPTIMA, SAVE YOUR MONEY FOR WHEN YOUR JETS GO BAD AFTER 2 YEARS BECAUSE THOSE JETS AREN'T CHEAP! LOL

[Guzz]

WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT A SUNDANCE WARRANTY WHEN THE JETS ON THE OPTIMA ARE ONLY COVERED UNDER WARRANTY FOR 2 YEARS WHEN MOST MANUFACTURERS LIKE MASTER SPAS HAVE A 5 YEAR JET WARRANTY? READ THE SUNDANCE WARRANTY BEFORE U POST NEXT TIME? TO THE GUY THAT BOUGHT AN OPTIMA, SAVE YOUR MONEY FOR WHEN YOUR JETS GO BAD AFTER 2 YEARS BECAUSE THOSE JETS AREN'T CHEAP! LOL

I'm sorry but I have a copy of a Master Spa warranty in front of me, and nowhere do I see a 5 yr warranty on Jets, could you point this out to me?

[sharkman009]

WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT A SUNDANCE WARRANTY WHEN THE JETS ON THE OPTIMA ARE ONLY COVERED UNDER WARRANTY FOR 2 YEARS WHEN MOST MANUFACTURERS LIKE MASTER SPAS HAVE A 5 YEAR JET WARRANTY? READ THE SUNDANCE WARRANTY BEFORE U POST NEXT TIME? TO THE GUY THAT BOUGHT AN OPTIMA, SAVE YOUR MONEY FOR WHEN YOUR JETS GO BAD AFTER 2 YEARS BECAUSE THOSE JETS AREN'T CHEAP! LOL

I can get parts from Sundance to repair tjheir spas and that isnt always the case with Master Spas. Even if their parts cost more at least you can get parts to service them.

[Wmartin]

Congratulations on your new spa . I was wondering if you could please help me out here with the offer of both types of insulation. You and I certainly see this in different ways. My point is as a builder you know which way works better and if you do not you should. Assuming that they know which they feel is better. Than outside of basically trying to tell someone what they want to hear instead of saying we believe this to be the better way so this is how we build our product. How do you see it as being service oriented ? I am genuinely hoping to understand as I must be missing something. Again I am not saying one is the best or only way but each builder knows how they feel with their design which works the best.

Icynene seems like a great product, and Master says thats all you need, thats their statement. Because people have strong feelings on this subject, as seen on these boards, Master offers it for customers who feel more comfortable with it. The didnt "sell" me on this bonus, the dealer told me not to do it, but if I insisted I could get it done. The Sundance guy said maintenance isnt bad with full foam and the dye they would use would make repair of a leak (if it ever happened) a 30 min project with the foam reapplied.

In business in general, its difficult to reducate people when old technologies are defended by industry giants. Bottom line for me, If Artic, made in northern Canada, has the best spa rating for insulation and it doesnt have full foam, it warrants consideration. Master is made in Indiana, Sundance in California. I'd tend to go with a cold climate recommendation than a warm climate recommendation.

Experts arent always right, companies evolve as new technologies are available . Here is an analogy, If you had kids 20 years ago the Drs advice to reduce SIDS insisted you have them sleep on their stomachs, 12 years ago it was to have kids on their sides, now its sleep on their backs. Drs thought very strongly about each recommendation at the times they were given, who is/was right? Am I right, i dont know, but had I fit into the Master I would have bought it without foam.

I wish consumer reports did a test of insulation in hot tubs

Warranty issues

I didnt read the warranty of either. From what I gather both have 5 year "bumper to bumper" except on wear and tear... parts like jets.

What else is not covered in the 5 year plans?

The Sundance retailer said there is no serviice fee for 5 years but Masters, after 2 years, has a service fee of $95, is that true?

Any other key differences?

What is the range of life and cost to replace heating elements of either?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Bottom line for me, If Artic, made in northern Canada, has the best spa rating for insulation and it doesnt have full foam, it warrants consideration. Master is made in Indiana, Sundance in California. I'd tend to go with a cold climate recommendation than a warm climate recommendation.

Who has a warm climate recommendation? I didn't see anyone say "Use our spa in a warmer climates"? Are you actually trying to say D1, Hot Springs and Sundance secondary to arctic and Master because they're made in warmer climates?

Check the tag on your winter jacket? Where is it made? Maybe someone should start a manufacturing plant in Antarctica.

[Wmartin]

Who has a warm climate recommendation? I didn't see anyone say "Use our spa in a warmer climates"? Are you actually trying to say D1, Hot Springs and Sundance secondary to arctic and Master because they're made in warmer climates?

Check the tag on your winter jacket? Where is it made? Maybe someone should start a manufacturing plant in Antarctica.

Spatech, what I said and wrote was that I would tend buy into the arguement of a cold climate manufacturer like Artic, whose majority business is in Canada, that there insulation is better than full foam.

I am not going to say anyone is wrong because I dont know for sure, and it seems like the industry has not been able to clearly figure it out either.

[thestallion]

Icynene seems like a great product, and Master says thats all you need, thats their statement. Because people have strong feelings on this subject, as seen on these boards, Master offers it for customers who feel more comfortable with it. The didnt "sell" me on this bonus, the dealer told me not to do it, but if I insisted I could get it done. The Sundance guy said maintenance isnt bad with full foam and the dye they would use would make repair of a leak (if it ever happened) a 30 min project with the foam reapplied.

In business in general, its difficult to reducate people when old technologies are defended by industry giants. Bottom line for me, If Artic, made in northern Canada, has the best spa rating for insulation and it doesnt have full foam, it warrants consideration. Master is made in Indiana, Sundance in California. I'd tend to go with a cold climate recommendation than a warm climate recommendation.

To compare Master and Arctic as being the same is not realistic they do not insulate nor build in the same way. Hey cars that are made in Detroit where it does get cold should people who live in say Phoenix where it gets well above 100 sometimes in the 120's not buy them because maybe the air conditioning will not be work as well.

The labor fee after years "typicallly" is a dealer charge not a manuctature.

I really hope you enjoy your spa and I am not trying to be argumentative just having some fun while also pointing out that there flip sides to much in this industry.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Spatech, what I said and wrote was that I would tend buy into the arguement of a cold climate manufacturer like Artic, whose majority business is in Canada, that there insulation is better than full foam.

I am not going to say anyone is wrong because I dont know for sure, and it seems like the industry has not been able to clearly figure it out either.

It does catch some people as making sense but it is Marketing 101 relative to the other top spa makers. The D1, Hot Springs and Sundances sell a TON of spas in cold markets/countries as well as warm ones and design their spas to hold up in either just as Arctic, Hydropool and the other spas made in cold climates do.

On the other hand, if a spa company was regional I could see where people may put stock in questioning the logic of buying a spa sold almost exclusively in Georgia/Florida/Alabama and using it in Maine with the idea that the company doesn't spend as much to insulate it thinking it doesn't see as much of a climate extreme.

[JOKERSOAKER]

I'm sorry but I have a copy of a Master Spa warranty in front of me, and nowhere do I see a 5 yr warranty on Jets, could you point this out to me?

GUZZ, NO REALLY SIR I'M SORRY! WHERE IN THE MASTER SPAS WARRANTY DOES IT STATE JETS ARE EXCLUDED FROM WARRANTY? CAN U POINT THIS OUT TO ME OR IS YOUR PREVIOUS REPLY JUST A SIMPLE GUESS FROM A SIMPLE MINDED INDIVIDUAL WITH NO FACTS TO SUPPORT SUCH A CLAIM. LOL 5 YEARS PARTS & LABOR IS WHAT I READ? GUZZ IS A JET CONSIDERED A PART? LOL JUST LIKE ANY OTHER WARRANTY PARTS ARE COVERED UNDER THE SPECIFIED TIME LIMIT UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE. ITS LAW THAT PARTS EXCLUDED OR NOT WARRANTIED AS LONG AS THE OTHER PARTS BE STATED IN WARRANTY. GUZZ HOW ABOUT U COME TO GRAND RAPIDS MICHIGAN AND I CAN SHOW U WHY I SELL MORE SPAS THAN ANYONE HERE AND MAKE U UNDERSTAND WARRANTIES! HAVE A HAPPY SAINT PATTYS DAY GUZZ! LOL