Pros And Cons Of Master Spa

[Wmartin]

Whats good about Master Spa?

What would you go with: A Master Spa 850 or a Sundance Optima both at a show price of $8500 with cover, lift, stairs, lights, and starter chemicals.

Would you upgrade to a LSX2 for $1200 on the Master?

I went to home show to buy at a Spa and I liked the Master Spa and the Sundance. In Pittsburgh, the Master dealer and show people were nothing like that described in this forum already. They didnt bash anyone elses product but just talked of the merits of their own. Even as I came back from a good Sundance presentation they Master Spa employee wouldnt talk negative about them but did address concerns appropriately.

I buying service and a spa, I like the people of both these companies as they were the only ones that didnt bash the competitors. I am leaning toward Sundance because of all the negative reads about MasterSpa and the rebate programs, etc. Both are mom and pop business but I favor the Master retailer the only reason I am not sure is the shots the product seems to be taking.

[hottubdan]

Did anyone educate you regarding the manufacturers?

Sundance is a owned by Jacuzzi Brands, a publically traded company. Publically traded companies are federally regulated to fund their warranty. Master Spas is not.

Sundance is an ISO 2001 company. ISO 2001 is an internationally recognized manufacturing standard, basically meaning they say what they do and do what they say. It means quality control.

All things other things being equal, those are 2 points in Sundance's favor.

[Kreg]

Both of your choices are quality spas, and regardless of what the previous responder said, both warranties are insured and guaranteed. However, both spas are not equal. Here ia a comparison...

LS850 - Optima

pumps 4 - 3

HP 16.5 - 8

jets 69 - 39

ozone standard - optional

pump speed two speed - only single speed

Microban yes - no

filtration Eco-Pur (low chems) - auto-brominator (yuck!)

insulation Icynene - eurathane (loses R-value as time goes on)

magnetic therapy yes- no

frame galvanized steel - wood frame

The ONLY option that the Optima has that the Master Spa doesn't have is an air blower. This is old technology, and cools off your water as you use it, even if it is heated. Hope this helps!

[Guzz]

I personally prefer the Sunance cabinet over Masters, The master spa cabinet is a very flimsy kind of vynl siding compared to the sundance simulated wood cabinet. I also think that the Sundance overall is a better quality made spa. All in my most humble opinion, and I sell neither.

[Brulan1]

Both of your choices are quality spas, and regardless of what the previous responder said, both warranties are insured and guaranteed. However, both spas are not equal. Here ia a comparison...

LS850 - Optima

pumps 4 - 3

HP 16.5 - 8

jets 69 - 39

ozone standard - optional

pump speed two speed - only single speed

Microban yes - no

filtration Eco-Pur (low chems) - auto-brominator (yuck!)

insulation Icynene - eurathane (loses R-value as time goes on)

magnetic therapy yes- no

frame galvanized steel - wood frame

The ONLY option that the Optima has that the Master Spa doesn't have is an air blower. This is old technology, and cools off your water as you use it, even if it is heated. Hope this helps!

Keep into consideration that of the 69 jets, 22 are in one jet called the master blaster which is deceptive to the customer I think. Also the amount of jets do not matter it is where they are placed. I happen to like Master spas better because of the Steel frame and the power. I like where the jets are placed as well. How long has the company been in business and compare. Master backs the product well but does the dealer have there own service fleet or do they subcontract?

[Guzz]

Keep into consideration that of the 69 jets, 22 are in one jet called the master blaster which is deceptive to the customer I think. Also the amount of jets do not matter it is where they are placed. I happen to like Master spas better because of the Steel frame and the power. I like where the jets are placed as well. How long has the company been in business and compare. Master backs the product well but does the dealer have there own service fleet or do they subcontract?

How can you say in the same thread that you think master to be deceptive, but you prefer them??? I'm confused.

[Brulan1]

How can you say in the same thread that you think master to be deceptive, but you prefer them??? I'm confused.

I would choose a Master spa over a sundance any day, the only think I was saying that they are a little deceptive in there advertising.

[Guzz]

I would choose a Master spa over a sundance any day, the only think I was saying that they are a little deceptive in there advertising.

Well I guess we do not agree on this one brulan because I think a Sundance is by far a better made spa.But that is just my humble opinion.

[Kreg]

Actually, 15 are in one jet, not 22. It certainly isn't fair to call the Master Blaster only one jet. Did you know that there is a 4 hp pump dedicated specifically to the Master Blasters? That is one heck of a foot massage!

[sharkman009]

I would have to agree with Guzz. The Sundance is a better built spa IMHO. I do not sell either of them but we do repairs on both.

[Kreg]

Better-built how? Give me specifics, please.

[Wmartin]

For those that do repairs, is the anything frequent that you see from either brand. Anything on airlocking pumps for master?

I was thinking the full foam from Sundance would be harder to repair (thus more expensive).

I agree to the earlier comment about the Sundance "shell" is more solid in design and appearence than the Master.

[turbottt1]

The only thing I ask of you before purchasing your master spa is please open up the bottom cabinet. Look close at the insulation and how it is applied. The thermal pane insulation is of the lowest grade insulator and is only 3/4" thick. You live in pittsburgh and it sure gets cold there. By comparison locate a artic spa dealer and open up their bottom cabinet. Both thermal pane insulation] What you'll see will speak volumes for you.Before you put down a deposit WET TEST all spas you like!!!! Good luck. steve

[Guzz]

Better-built how? Give me specifics, please.

Sundance is full foam v partial foam

Well constructed cabinet v cheap flimsy cabinet (I mean it's a joke)

microclean filtration.

wood frame v steel frame (not as strong & cheaper to manufacture) these are just a few but they all have one thing in common, how to make a spa for less money yet still command a high price= more profits. You can bet that there are a lot more than I've mentioned, but then I'm not a tech. And I'm not spa bashing, you asked.

[sharkman009]

Better-built how? Give me specifics, please.

Besides the things that Guzz listed the backing of the warranty on the two is like night and day. I can get parts for the Sundance spas that we work on in a timely maner but there have been many times we could not get certain parts for the Master spas. A perfect example was when they came out with their tvs and the brackets they used were not even made of stainless steel and after a couple of months we had customers complaining of rust running out from under their tubs. We couldnt get parts to fix this problem.

[Kreg]

Sundance is full foam v partial foam

Well constructed cabinet v cheap flimsy cabinet (I mean it's a joke)

microclean filtration.

wood frame v steel frame (not as strong & cheaper to manufacture) these are just a few but they all have one thing in common, how to make a spa for less money yet still command a high price= more profits. You can bet that there are a lot more than I've mentioned, but then I'm not a tech. And I'm not spa bashing, you asked.

Icynene foam vs urethane foam. Icynene costs twice as much, and doesn't lose its R-value like the urethane foam does. Everybody knows that full-foam is just a cheap way to reinforce a thin, weak shell. Try to find a leak down the road. Masters cabinet is indestructable, but some cabinets do look nicer. Eco-pur filtration filters water to drinking water standards per NSF. Does microclean? If you really think that G90 automotive-grade galvanized steel is cheaper than wood, you need to come down to reality. If you think that wood is stronger than steel, where are all the skyscrapers and bridges built out of wood? I mean give me a brake, we aren't talking about the steel studs you use to frame a wall (flimsy). We are talking about real G90 steel. It's lighter, stronger, and way more expensive than any wood anywhere. If you want to talk about a spa company building a cheaper spa and commanding more profits, how about putting less features on it, and just saying it's "better-built." All the extra features on a Master Spa cost money, therefore making the spa cost more to build.

[Guzz]

Icynene foam vs urethane foam. Icynene costs twice as much, and doesn't lose its R-value like the urethane foam does. Everybody knows that full-foam is just a cheap way to reinforce a thin, weak shell. Try to find a leak down the road. Masters cabinet is indestructable, but some cabinets do look nicer. Eco-pur filtration filters water to drinking water standards per NSF. Does microclean? If you really think that G90 automotive-grade galvanized steel is cheaper than wood, you need to come down to reality. If you think that wood is stronger than steel, where are all the skyscrapers and bridges built out of wood? I mean give me a brake, we aren't talking about the steel studs you use to frame a wall (flimsy). We are talking about real G90 steel. It's lighter and stronger than any wood anywhere. If you want to talk about a spa company building a cheaper spa and commanding more profits, how about putting less features on it, and just saying it's "better-built." All the extra features on a Master Spa cost money, therefore making the spa cost more to build.

Well you asked for our opinions and we gave them, but it seems that you have already made up your mind, so next time don't ask!

[Kreg]

Well you asked for our opinions and we gave them, but it seems that you have already made up your mind, so next time don't ask!

I appreciate your opinion...just trying to get the facts straight!

[Guzz]

I appreciate your opinion...just trying to get the facts straight!

Fair enough.

[thestallion]

Icynene foam vs urethane foam. Icynene costs twice as much, and doesn't lose its R-value like the urethane foam does. Everybody knows that full-foam is just a cheap way to reinforce a thin, weak shell. Try to find a leak down the road. Masters cabinet is indestructable, but some cabinets do look nicer. Eco-pur filtration filters water to drinking water standards per NSF. Does microclean? If you really think that G90 automotive-grade galvanized steel is cheaper than wood, you need to come down to reality. If you think that wood is stronger than steel, where are all the skyscrapers and bridges built out of wood? I mean give me a brake, we aren't talking about the steel studs you use to frame a wall (flimsy). We are talking about real G90 steel. It's lighter, stronger, and way more expensive than any wood anywhere. If you want to talk about a spa company building a cheaper spa and commanding more profits, how about putting less features on it, and just saying it's "better-built." All the extra features on a Master Spa cost money, therefore making the spa cost more to build.

More of the great Master BullS**T. Not every full foam spa uses it for shell support that is an old cop out and a another blatant lie of someone who is involved with Master to spew it. Also why does Master offer both but to get FF there is an up charge for it. Whatever it takes to appease someone is why I think Master offers both. And also Master has been around less than 10 years buying up an old local spa maker and than laying claim to their time in business does not make it such for you.

[Wmartin]

I like that Master Spa offers both. The guy said if I wanted it I could have it, no upcharge, but he wouldnt recommend it. To me that says a lot for the insulation they have without it. Its a nonissue for them.

Stallion, what do you mean 10 years, the guy told me they have been making spas for 24 years, is there a catch? Thanks

[master]

I like that Master Spa offers both. The guy said if I wanted it I could have it, no upcharge, but he wouldnt recommend it. To me that says a lot for the insulation they have without it. Its a nonissue for them.

Stallion, what do you mean 10 years, the guy told me they have been making spas for 24 years, is there a catch? Thanks

I am very interested this discussion as I am looking at the biggest spa they both sell. Buying another company and claiming their history as your own is not a major flaw for Master in my opinion. The flimsy cabinet, the validity of the metal frame - stuff like that does matter. The parts availability is very important as I just found out on Kubota tractors.

Appreciate any input on the largest spas. Insulation is an important topic that seems to have more than its share of MISinformation

I like that Master Spa offers both. The guy said if I wanted it I could have it, no upcharge, but he wouldnt recommend it. To me that says a lot for the insulation they have without it. Its a nonissue for them.

Stallion, what do you mean 10 years, the guy told me they have been making spas for 24 years, is there a catch? Thanks

I am very interested this discussion as I am looking at the biggest spa they both sell. Buying another company and claiming their history as your own is not a major flaw for Master in my opinion. The flimsy cabinet, the validity of the metal frame - stuff like that does matter. The parts availability is very important as I just found out on Kubota tractors.

Appreciate any input on the largest spas. Insulation is an important topic that seems to have more than its share of MISinformation

[Guzz]

I like that Master Spa offers both. The guy said if I wanted it I could have it, no upcharge, but he wouldnt recommend it. To me that says a lot for the insulation they have without it. Its a nonissue for them.

Stallion, what do you mean 10 years, the guy told me they have been making spas for 24 years, is there a catch? Thanks

What a sales line, yes it's a non issue for them, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PAYING YOUR ELECTRIC BILL!

[Wmartin]

What a sales line, yes it's a non issue for them, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PAYING YOUR ELECTRIC BILL!

Guzz, thanks you have been helpful this post. I must ask though, since maybe I didnt write the post well, Master will do it either way, foam filled, or non foam filled, at the same price. Saying its a "non issue for them" simple meant they will do it anyway I want them to do it (with no upcharge).

How is that a sales line? I think thats awesome.

[soreback]

WARNING BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING A SPA FROM WEST CHESTER SPAS IN WEST CHESTER PA.

We placed a deposit of $4200.00 on an LSX1050 Master Spa at a spa show at the Valley Forge Convention Center held by West Chester Spas. This was a new 2006 model with no extras added just the base unit new from the factory. The salesperson explained the many jets and features of the unit including the shoulder jet seats. It seamed like the perfect spa for us being we both have issues with our shoulder muscles since being involved in a serious auto accident several months ago. Although the salesman never asked us to get into the unit to see if we were comfortable in the shoulder jet seats, he did say that there was a male and a female sized shoulder jet seat, so we figured they should be fine.

1 week later at a home show we saw another dealer of the same products and decided to see if the prices were similar between dealers (this dealer was over 50 miles away from our home). After some brief conversation the first thing this sales rep asked us to do was to sit in the different spas to see how nice they felt and fit. We realized the shoulder jets of the LSX1050 on the male seat did not fit my shoulders as my shoulders would only fit if I slid my butt all they way out to the edge of the seat. I am 6’ 220 but a long upper torso. We did get a price from this dealer on the LSX1050 and found the price very close to one we already had.

I contacted West Chester Spas and asked to take a wet test of the unit I placed a deposit on to make sure it was the same wet as dry. The next day I did so and found that I did not fit under the shoulder jets. The following day I contacted the owner Larry Granger and told him the problem.

He is where the problem starts. I was told he would not refund my whole deposit. He said he had already paid a $1600.00 commission on the sale and I had to take a store credit for that amount. If I agreed to take a store credit for the $1600.00 then he would credit my credit card for the balance of the $4200.00 deposit. If I did not agree, he would not credit my credit card for anything and I would be on my own to the fight to get my deposit back.

I can’t believe that the owner would not be able to recover a sales commission from his employee since the spa was never delivered. I also can’t believe that he would offer a $1600.00 store credit if he could not recover the sales commission. If my math is correct this would cost him the $1600.00 commission plus the value of the goods I purchased unless he would be able to recover the sales commission but just didn’t want to lose a sale. If this all seams strange to you, it certainly is confusing to the credit card company that I am disputing the charge with. Do you think this is someone who is interested in customer satisfaction or just his bottom line, you decide!