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Cloudy, Odor Water Help Please!


turbottt1

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Hello looking for some advice from you. Purchased spa everthing fine then we start getting foam. I understand why so far. Then our water turned very cloudy with a slight odor. The smell comes the day after we shock the spa. We have had the water tested at the dealer twice now and it shows were real close on our balance. We have shocked it, adjusted ph and alk, had it tested for contamined. We changed filters and duty cycles on our filtration. We are using bromine[ perfect balance] and a product called refresh after everytime we use the spa. Everything we have tried as not helped the cloudy water. I need your advice! Thank you for all help and information.steve

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Hello looking for some advice from you. Purchased spa everthing fine then we start getting foam. I understand why so far. Then our water turned very cloudy with a slight odor. The smell comes the day after we shock the spa. We have had the water tested at the dealer twice now and it shows were real close on our balance. We have shocked it, adjusted ph and alk, had it tested for contamined. We changed filters and duty cycles on our filtration. We are using bromine[ perfect balance] and a product called refresh after everytime we use the spa. Everything we have tried as not helped the cloudy water. I need your advice! Thank you for all help and information.steve

I use the identical products you do (arctic brand, right?). The cloudiness in your water is probably due to particles your filter can't take out (too fine). Are you using "Easy Clear" at all? This product will help to coagulate all those small particles so that the filter can take them out of the water. Most likely the cloudiness is from skin, oils, body products so the easy clear will help (it does on mine when the water gets a bit cloudy). You may also want to buy a "scumball", one brand name is "Zorbie", a sponge-like ball or square that floats in your tub and picks up the smaller particles, you just throw it out after 1 to 3 months and should help keep your water odor free and clear. Hopefully this helps.

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yes we have used easy clear. I'am not sure about the particles in the water???? I wonder if our well water which is heavy in minerals ,after heated is causing this??? When I say cloudy I do mean cloudy. You can not see the bottom of the tub. We pounded this thing two nights ago with 4 oz. of best defense ran pumps for a hour. Then shocked it with 4 capfulls of peek boost followed by 3 capfulls of refresh. Ran pumps for another hour then added easy clear aprox. one capfull. Went out yesterday and checked ph etc and it seems to be real close. I had to add one half capfull of adjust down. I wonder when we get out of the shower and then into the tub if we are not introducing soaps, minerals, etc from our water?????? I figured it would cost me the first 400 gal. of water to learn what this tubs wants, but I am concerned if I can't get a handle on this that our poor pool is going to be empty before we resolve this. steve

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yes we have used easy clear. I'am not sure about the particles in the water???? I wonder if our well water which is heavy in minerals ,after heated is causing this??? When I say cloudy I do mean cloudy. You can not see the bottom of the tub. We pounded this thing two nights ago with 4 oz. of best defense ran pumps for a hour. Then shocked it with 4 capfulls of peek boost followed by 3 capfulls of refresh. Ran pumps for another hour then added easy clear aprox. one capfull. Went out yesterday and checked ph etc and it seems to be real close. I had to add one half capfull of adjust down. I wonder when we get out of the shower and then into the tub if we are not introducing soaps, minerals, etc from our water?????? I figured it would cost me the first 400 gal. of water to learn what this tubs wants, but I am concerned if I can't get a handle on this that our poor pool is going to be empty before we resolve this. steve

Is the odor you are getting a chemical smell or a musty smell? If it is not a chemical smell the bacteria in the spa have gotten ahead of you and you dont want anyone using the spa until you get it cleared up.

I am going to assume from what you described that the cloudiness you described is from bacteria build up.

I am not familiar with the brand of chemical you are using so its going to make this a little tricky.

Ther are two ways you can handle this you can clear it up but there is no way to tell for sure how much in chemicals it is going to take to clear it up. The nice thing with a hot tub is its small enough that you can drain it and in some cases its easier and in the long run cheaper than treating it. The rule of thumb I usually go by is if its to cloudy to see the bottom I would drain it. If you want to clear it up we need a little more info. What are your bromine levels testing at? Are you testing right after you add your chemicals? Dont add any more clairifier if you add more than the recommended dosages you will add to your problems.

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First were testing the water with aquacheck strips. Our hardness is ranging about500 ppm. our bromine is is between 1 and 2. our alkalinity is falling between 120/180 closer to 120. ph is stable at 7.8. I have put a half a capfull more of the clairifier than recommended by our dealer. Total in 400 gal. spa 1/1/2 capfulls. We did add a scumball today. No one has been in since last monday, but I'm needing it real bad. Hope this helps if you need more info. please ask. thank you very much. steve

For got to add . We use artic brand chemicals. steve

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Hello looking for some advice from you.

Hello, Steve

Here is a reply from Dan Scalabrini of Arctic Spas:

I have reviewed the post and it sounds like he is over doing it with the chemicals. It is a common mistake with new spa owners. They desperately try to clear the water and they keep throwing chemicals in, resulting in the water becoming very saturated with dissolved solids. My best advice to new spa customers is to keep things simple, and not to let water chemistry issues stress them out (spas are supposed to relieve stress). A lot of times when people have water issues they get bombarded with different chemicals to try using to clear up the water. First, work with the alkalinity this will help keep the ph stable. Then work with the ph, the ph also affects the effectiveness of the bromine (low ph the tablets dissolve slower and high ph the tablets dissolve slower). Since well water is being used, I believe the culprit could be metals in the water. If it is metals, best defense should be used (as directed, don't over do it!). The other important step is filtration (needed to actually remove the metal particles out of the water). What type of filter is being used? The regular type filter (pleated) or the disposable (Micropure) filter (no pleats just a solid round filter). Since the disposable filter collects particles down to one micron, water clarifiers will clog the filter causing it to be ineffective. Something else that might be useful is what's called a pre-filter which attaches to the end of a garden hose and filters the water as you are filling the spa. The next important thing with water chemistry is patience. There is a learning curve with water chemistry, but once you get the hang of it, it will become second nature.

Dan wants you to contact him directly if you and your dealer cannot work this out. I will send you his email address off-list.

Tom

Arctic Spas.

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First were testing the water with aquacheck strips. Our hardness is ranging about500 ppm. our bromine is is between 1 and 2. our alkalinity is falling between 120/180 closer to 120. ph is stable at 7.8. I have put a half a capfull more of the clairifier than recommended by our dealer. Total in 400 gal. spa 1/1/2 capfulls. We did add a scumball today. No one has been in since last monday, but I'm needing it real bad. Hope this helps if you need more info. please ask. thank you very much. steve

For got to add . We use artic brand chemicals. steve

Is the odor you were describing a musty odor or more of a chemical smell?

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First I could not agree more with you on the over doing on chemicals. I'm not sure I trust the results of the test strips. When we test the water it shows that we need to adjust up and when the dealer test the water they tell us to adjust down????? Metals in the water. Our well water is as bad as it comes and yes we do use a pre filter now. We put in the spa aprox. 18 gals. of unfiltered water. We started with a disposable filter but we switched to a pleated one. musty odor verus chemical odor. It's a musty one for sure. Not real bad but it is there at times. When we wet tested I remember the smell that came from the dealer spas and ours is different. Now with all this being said we do use our spa a lot and with it being new there has been quite a few different people that have enjoyed it with us and will continue to enjoy it.. I figured we would probably use up the first 400 gal. of water just learning what the spa wants to keep it within the safe limits and to find a balance with the water and chemicals. It seems to me that after reviewing the results of the test strips that it has taken more chemicals to find the balance then I believe is needed. I do not want to add chemicals and for sure not the wrong one at the wrong time. I know they make a metal remover, but there we go again another different chemical that I not really sure is needed. I had hoped and still do that we can learn the different results from all the different chemical so when we do refill our spa that we will only have to add just the basic chemicals needed based on our useage and if we see something a little off that we can grab this chemical apply it in small amounts and keep the water just right. It's all about learning!!!!! steve

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First I could not agree more with you on the over doing on chemicals. I'm not sure I trust the results of the test strips. When we test the water it shows that we need to adjust up and when the dealer test the water they tell us to adjust down????? Metals in the water. Our well water is as bad as it comes and yes we do use a pre filter now. We put in the spa aprox. 18 gals. of unfiltered water. We started with a disposable filter but we switched to a pleated one. musty odor verus chemical odor. It's a musty one for sure. Not real bad but it is there at times. When we wet tested I remember the smell that came from the dealer spas and ours is different. Now with all this being said we do use our spa a lot and with it being new there has been quite a few different people that have enjoyed it with us and will continue to enjoy it.. I figured we would probably use up the first 400 gal. of water just learning what the spa wants to keep it within the safe limits and to find a balance with the water and chemicals. It seems to me that after reviewing the results of the test strips that it has taken more chemicals to find the balance then I believe is needed. I do not want to add chemicals and for sure not the wrong one at the wrong time. I know they make a metal remover, but there we go again another different chemical that I not really sure is needed. I had hoped and still do that we can learn the different results from all the different chemical so when we do refill our spa that we will only have to add just the basic chemicals needed based on our useage and if we see something a little off that we can grab this chemical apply it in small amounts and keep the water just right. It's all about learning!!!!! steve

If you are getting a musty smell you definetly have a sanitizer problem. One thing you want to remember is that bacteria is introduced into your spa with each person that gets into your spa. not a real pleasant thing to think about but a person sitting in your spa at 102 degrees will put off about a pint of perspiration in a half hour. You can just imagine how much bacteria that contains. So as your usage increases so will the chemical demand. Also when the sanitizer is gone bacteria will grow quickly.

Since you already have cloudy water here is what I would recommend, look at the chemicals you have and see if any of them list Sodium-Dichlor as the ingredient. This is a form of chlorine made for spas. If you dont have any get some. For your gallon capacity I would start off with about 5 tablespoons full. Do not let anyone use the spa as they may break out with pseudamonis and it will also make it harder for you to get ahead of this. Turn the jets on in the spa to stir the chemicals up good for 15 minutes. Check your test strips there should be a pull date on the bottom of the bottle make sure they are still good. Give the spa about three hours then test the sanitizer level my guess is with the description of the water you will probably find it low or zero.

If you find it low add 2 more tablespoons and wait for another 3 hours and repeat this process until you come back and find a good sanitizer level. I would also question the accuracy of the test strips you were using. You said your bromine level was between 1 and 2 yet you are getting a musty odor from the water if the bromine level is at that level bacteria would not grow in the spa. Once you get the sanitizer level a little on the high side leave it as it will take some time for the chemical to kill the bacteria and your spa system to filter it out of the water. Once you get ahead of it the water should clear within a day or two. Make sure that whenever you add your chemicals that you sanitize your tub with that you wait for 8 hours before you test or you will not get an accurate test as it takes a while for the chemical to attack the bacteria in the spa. I always add my chemicals after we get out of the spa then test the water in the morning before leaving for work that way if I didnt add enough sanitizer the night before I can add it that morning and I know its redy to use that evening. Hope that helps.

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The bad odour could very well be from bacteria getting ahead on you. However, this shouldn't have been a problem since you mentioned your bromine levels (sanitizer) were in the ok range. It could be bacteria though. You also mentioned you added "Peak Boost", and by the sounds of it, A LOT! Typically, boost is only added when you first fill the tub to establish a bromine reserve. So by adding too much, along with the shock, like Tom mentioned the cloudiness could be from too much chemicals. Your Refresh is your shock treatment as you probably already know. What this will do is free bromine (there are other posts on this subject you can read through as i can't really describe it well). So by adding boost and shocking, you've probably overchemicalized your tub. But, better safe than sorry, have your water tested before anyone uses the tub. If it is bacteria, get your sanitizer levels up, shock it, drain it, scrub it down very well (ask your dealer how to clean it properly, but a diluted bleach solution can be used). Then fill and start over. You may also want to have your well water tested, because if the bacteria levels were that high to begin with, it could be there is a certain amount in your well. Hope we've all helped a bit, and maintaining a tub is not all that difficult, i've only had mine since november and learned a lot from this board (i had a head start though as my wife and i helped with my father in laws tub for several years before).

Oh, just noticed one other thing. You mentioned your bromine levels were about 1 or 2. Are you talking ppm? If so, in a hot tub, your bromine should be around 3 to 5 ppm (you can reduce this a little if you have an ozonator).

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First thank you all very much for the info. I will be heading back to the dealer today for another test. After reading your responses I can see some errors on "MY" part. Also I will be asking for a better explanation of the different chemicals, what they are used for and how and when to apply them. I'm pretty much convinced to drain it and start again, but will leave this up to our dealer. One thing I have learned is how quickly things can change in a small body of water. I also use this board for help because I work around the clock 7 days a week and really do not have the time to travel to our dealer for explanations and help.They are great people who without question will bend over backwards to help. We have had our well water tested and it was found to be ok, but high in mineral contains. [ rust] Lets start a different debate. Should we continue to use the strips or move to a complete test kit???? Reason I ask for is this. I just tested the water again this morning. Hardness is 500 ppm, bromine is falling between 2 and 5,alkalinity is 120,ph is 7.8.These figures are on the result chart on the back of the bottle of aquacheck. The water looks like crap, smells like crap and if I didn't know better I would think our 120 lb. golden retriever has been soaking in our tub after rolling around in the cow pasture. Ok maybe that was a little over the top but you get my point! steve

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ok I went to the dealer yesterday . We took a sample of water, our test strips and as many questions as I could think of. After doing the test with their equipment our water showed no bromine in the water. Our test strips showed between 1 and 2 on the bottle. We have updated our strips. Only concern was our human by products are up a bit. Came home cleaned the filter, added 4 capfulls of bromine, 1/2 capfull of clarifier and turned the pump on low. Checked the water aprox. 3 hrs. later and our bromine level was up to10, but our alk. and ph were quite low so we added a half of capfull of perfect balance which put our alk. up in the ok range. Went out this morning and ran another test. Hardness is right at 500 ppm, bromine had dropped to 2, alk. was aprox. 100 and ph was stable at 7.2. Is this common for the bromine level to drop so much with no use???? The dealer talked about the bromine building up a bank??? I'm assuming that because there was no bromine that when we added it the bacteria just used up what we added and will continue to use up what we add till we buildup this needed bank of bromine?????? Also on the bottle of clarifier it says to add a 1/2 of capfull daily till water is clear. Is this to much????? I can see improvement in the water this morning and the smell is far less. What do ya think????? thanks again. steve

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ok I went to the dealer yesterday . We took a sample of water, our test strips and as many questions as I could think of. After doing the test with their equipment our water showed no bromine in the water. Our test strips showed between 1 and 2 on the bottle. We have updated our strips. Only concern was our human by products are up a bit. Came home cleaned the filter, added 4 capfulls of bromine, 1/2 capfull of clarifier and turned the pump on low. Checked the water aprox. 3 hrs. later and our bromine level was up to10, but our alk. and ph were quite low so we added a half of capfull of perfect balance which put our alk. up in the ok range. Went out this morning and ran another test. Hardness is right at 500 ppm, bromine had dropped to 2, alk. was aprox. 100 and ph was stable at 7.2. Is this common for the bromine level to drop so much with no use???? The dealer talked about the bromine building up a bank??? I'm assuming that because there was no bromine that when we added it the bacteria just used up what we added and will continue to use up what we add till we buildup this needed bank of bromine?????? Also on the bottle of clarifier it says to add a 1/2 of capfull daily till water is clear. Is this to much????? I can see improvement in the water this morning and the smell is far less. What do ya think????? thanks again. steve

The bromine will diminish as it sanitizes (kills off the yuckies, lol). I sometimes put a tablet of bromine in the filter basket to help boost up my bromine level after heavy use or refilling the tub (high erosion there). You will need to establish a "bromine reserve" and basically you are doing this. Seems you are getting a hand on the chemical balance so just do what your dealer instructed. As for the clarifier (Easy Clear, i'm assuming), this will coagulate particles too fine for the filter and "glob" them up so the filter can pick them up. After using easy clear, you may notice a yellow goo type ring around your tub, just use a rag and wipe it off (kinda like a ring around the bathtub, this goo is coagulated body oils, skin, other yuckies that didn't get sucked into the filter). 1/2 capfull daily should be ok, i've done more when i've had cloudy water after heavy bather loads with no ill effects (other than the yellow goo) and has really helped keep my water clear. As for human by-products, stop peeing in the tub! LoL, probably skin and oils as i don't think you'd want to pee in the tub. One other thing, i'm pretty sure you have an arctic brand, when adding chemicals put it in the "boost filtration mode" as this will leave the pumps running on high for 40 minutes instead of the standard 20 minutes and help mix chemicals and filter for a longer period of time (check your manual, but should be press and hold pump 2 for 5 seconds, "BOO" will appear on your display).

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Ditch the test strips. I tried test strips and sometimes didn't get the same reading using one right after another. Even if they reliablyread the same your experience should tell you they are sold on convenience not accuracy.

Buy an indicator drop test kit.

It is almost as fast as the test strips once you memorize how many drops of each indicator go in the correct tubes. It will more than pay for itself in accurate readings and fewer chemicals/tub refillings.

From what I understand (and I have not used bromine) it does require a build up that can be easy to lose if your PH and alk get out of balance.

As others have said musty cloudyness means bacteria. It sounds like you are on the right track by trusting your dealers water test more than your test strips.

If you want to look at an alternative to bromine. I use Nature two with MPS non clorine shock after each use and 1 TBS Clorine shock twice a week. Very simple and keeps it clear.I could probably get by with less clorine since there are weeks I forget and only clorine shock it once and it stays clear.

I do a water change and replace the Nature two cartridge every 4 months.

Disclaimer- I don't sell nature 2 or work for them. I'm just a consumer pointing out an alternative that works for me.

Rika

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ok I went to the dealer yesterday . We took a sample of water, our test strips and as many questions as I could think of. After doing the test with their equipment our water showed no bromine in the water. Our test strips showed between 1 and 2 on the bottle. We have updated our strips. Only concern was our human by products are up a bit. Came home cleaned the filter, added 4 capfulls of bromine, 1/2 capfull of clarifier and turned the pump on low. Checked the water aprox. 3 hrs. later and our bromine level was up to10, but our alk. and ph were quite low so we added a half of capfull of perfect balance which put our alk. up in the ok range. Went out this morning and ran another test. Hardness is right at 500 ppm, bromine had dropped to 2, alk. was aprox. 100 and ph was stable at 7.2. Is this common for the bromine level to drop so much with no use???? The dealer talked about the bromine building up a bank??? I'm assuming that because there was no bromine that when we added it the bacteria just used up what we added and will continue to use up what we add till we buildup this needed bank of bromine?????? Also on the bottle of clarifier it says to add a 1/2 of capfull daily till water is clear. Is this to much????? I can see improvement in the water this morning and the smell is far less. What do ya think????? thanks again. steve

Your on the right track and yes it is normal for the bromine level to drop that fast if you have a lot of bacteria in the spa. That is why I was asking about the odor and with the color you were describing I was pretty sure that was what was happening. But now you are catching up to it dont back off until it is cleared up make sure you maintain the bromine level on the high side until it is cleared up. The other thing you want to remember is Bromine is very acidic so as you add it it will affect your Total alkalinity and Ph. The more bromine you add the more it will affect you Ph and Total alkalinity. I would hold off on anymore clairifier as you are seeing an improvement in the water already. As some of the others have told you dont let this intimidate you it is really pretty easy once you get a program figured out that works for you. Its good you have a local dealer that can help you with the chemistry. Take advantage of this service thats what they are there for. Good luck Steve

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Yeap folks you were all right!!! I'm not sure about kahuna! tinkling in my tub??? How twisted is that????? I about fell out of the chair when I read that one at 2:45 am. Lol!!!! While on on the subject before entering the spa I will check for FLOATIES!!!!!!! Lol!!!!!!! As you can tell the humor is back. Want to know why??????? Were tubbing at the homestead tonight!!!!!!!!!! Water has really came along ways We can see all the way to the foot well and we have just a slight cloudiness to the water. It is safe! Thanks again. steve

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Yeap folks you were all right!!! I'm not sure about kahuna! tinkling in my tub??? How twisted is that????? I about fell out of the chair when I read that one at 2:45 am. Lol!!!! While on on the subject before entering the spa I will check for FLOATIES!!!!!!! Lol!!!!!!! As you can tell the humor is back. Want to know why??????? Were tubbing at the homestead tonight!!!!!!!!!! Water has really came along ways We can see all the way to the foot well and we have just a slight cloudiness to the water. It is safe! Thanks again. steve

White floaties? lol

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[ Just got out. Man did I miss not using the spa. All together there were about 8 different people in tonight so it should be a good test to see if I've learned anything. Now if mother nature would just quite blowing 30 mile an hour winds the walk from the tub to the house just might be more comfortable. Thanks again to all of you and to our awsome dealer WHO DOES TAKE CARE OF US!!!!!! steve FYI no white floaties. Lol!!!!!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello, Steve

Here is a reply from Dan Scalabrini of Arctic Spas:

...

Since well water is being used, I believe the culprit could be metals in the water. If it is metals, best defense should be used (as directed, don't over do it!). The other important step is filtration (needed to actually remove the metal particles out of the water). ...

Metal removers will not remove the metals. They are sequestering agents that complex with the metals and keep them inactive and in solution. They cannot be filtered out! If the metals are precipitating out of the water you will see it in the form of staining. IIn a perfect world this will happen only on the filter medium which can then be changed to remove the metals. Unfortunatly, this is not a perfect world and the stains usually apprear on the surface of the hot tub. Metals usually do not result in cloudy water.

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First were testing the water with aquacheck strips. Our hardness is ranging about500 ppm. our bromine is is between 1 and 2. our alkalinity is falling between 120/180 closer to 120. ph is stable at 7.8. I have put a half a capfull more of the clairifier than recommended by our dealer. Total in 400 gal. spa 1/1/2 capfulls. We did add a scumball today. No one has been in since last monday, but I'm needing it real bad. Hope this helps if you need more info. please ask. thank you very much. steve

For got to add . We use artic brand chemicals. steve

The first thing to do is throw out the test strips and purchase a Taylor Kit, it cost about fifty bucks, after using this kit you will notice that the test strips are way off base. :rolleyes:

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yes we did buy a drop test kit. The water is very clear and no problems. I'd like to go back to the disposible filter instead of the paper type, but we are using some clarifier just to keep the water popping. I've been told we use our spa more than most. average 3-5 times aday] because of this we use a good amount of chemicals and without the clarifier the water looks a little peakish. steve

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yes we did buy a drop test kit. The water is very clear and no problems. I'd like to go back to the disposible filter instead of the paper type, but we are using some clarifier just to keep the water popping. I've been told we use our spa more than most. average 3-5 times aday] because of this we use a good amount of chemicals and without the clarifier the water looks a little peakish. steve

When you say peakish do you mean dull or not sparkling? With the amount of use your spa is getting you will have to drain your water more often than most.

When your total dissolved solids get too high the water will get a dull look to it. If you have a local dealer that does water analysis take a water sample in and ask them to test the TDS for you.

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Your right. We have been keeping a eye out. So far were ok. It's just about time to refill the pool and were planning on refilling the spa at the same time. I thought our use would slow down, but everybody seems to really enjoy the soaking time. Hey thats why we bought it!!!!!!!! steve

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Your right. We have been keeping a eye out. So far were ok. It's just about time to refill the pool and were planning on refilling the spa at the same time. I thought our use would slow down, but everybody seems to really enjoy the soaking time. Hey thats why we bought it!!!!!!!! steve

Sounds like you've got it under control. :D

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Your right. We have been keeping a eye out. So far were ok. It's just about time to refill the pool and were planning on refilling the spa at the same time. I thought our use would slow down, but everybody seems to really enjoy the soaking time. Hey thats why we bought it!!!!!!!! steve

I always drain my spa water into the pool and refill the spa. It's great because it doen't effect the pool since it's a small amount of water transfered to it and it saves 500 gallons or so water from going down the drain. Previously, I always treid to stretch my spa drain/refills but now I just send it to the pool and start over with the spa water without regret that I'm wasting H2O.

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