Mr. Ed Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I'm going shopping for a tub and I think I have a handle on some of the things to look for with respect to finishes, motors, pumps, insulation and so forth, but nobody says much about jets. I've been in tubs with all sorts of jets, but I've never really paid any attention to them (hey, they are underwater and hard to see). From the promotional material I've read, jets are made of plastics, ceramics, brass, stainless steel, etc. The folks with brass or stainless claim long life and trouble-freeness, if that is a word. Is this true? Should I care what the jets are made of? Likewise, in the long term, what kinds of jets are most popular? Even if something feels good in a short wet test, I can imagine getting tired of it if it is gimmicky. I read in one of these discussions that small, high intensity jets can make a person feel itchy. I want warmth and relaxation rather than an intense massage. Any suggestions? Mr. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzz Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I'm going shopping for a tub and I think I have a handle on some of the things to look for with respect to finishes, motors, pumps, insulation and so forth, but nobody says much about jets. I've been in tubs with all sorts of jets, but I've never really paid any attention to them (hey, they are underwater and hard to see). From the promotional material I've read, jets are made of plastics, ceramics, brass, stainless steel, etc. The folks with brass or stainless claim long life and trouble-freeness, if that is a word. Is this true? Should I care what the jets are made of? Likewise, in the long term, what kinds of jets are most popular? Even if something feels good in a short wet test, I can imagine getting tired of it if it is gimmicky. I read in one of these discussions that small, high intensity jets can make a person feel itchy. I want warmth and relaxation rather than an intense massage. Any suggestions? Mr. Ed Look for spas with a variety of jets, so that each seat massages you in a different way. HotSpring is a good example of this. You are right about small jets being itchy, you also want the jets to be fully adjustable so you can customize how powerfull or gentle the flow is. The stainless steel look is just that, the look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 Definately a good variety of jets. A lot of it depends on what kind of massage you like. I agree with the little pin-point jets. They direct the water to this little area that feels needle-like after a while. I LOVE spinning jets! The ability to switch jets around in the spa is important to me also. And a single jet that can be adjusted to have a few different feels is nice because you can be more specific about what kind of massage out of each area. A good mix of air/water completely changes the feel of a massage also. Basically, as you move from one seat to another you should have the ability to tell the spa (by adjusting flow/air/jet functions/ the jet itself or the seat you sit in) exactly how you want your massage to be. If the spa doesn't have this kind of variety I wouldn't even think about it. And Guzz is absolutely right... stainless steel is purely asthetics- not longevity or durability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Kahuna Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Like has been stated by everyone else so far, i will agree that small high pressure jets can feel needle like and become very annoying. I have a tub with varying sized jets, but none so small as to produce a "needle" like effect. If you like a gentle massage, choose a tub with larger jets. A variety is a plus though, as you can sit in different seats with varying sized jets depending on your mood or requirements. Make sure all your jets are adjustable as this makes the experience much more pleasant (most can be adjusted by turning the outer ring of the jet itself, and like Amanda mentioned you can vary the experience by how much air flow, etc to various jets with diverter valves, air mixture, etc). Play around with controls while wet testing to see how varying these functions changes the feel of the jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Like has been stated by everyone else so far, i will agree that small high pressure jets can feel needle like and become very annoying. I have a tub with varying sized jets, but none so small as to produce a "needle" like effect. If you like a gentle massage, choose a tub with larger jets. A variety is a plus though, as you can sit in different seats with varying sized jets depending on your mood or requirements. Make sure all your jets are adjustable as this makes the experience much more pleasant (most can be adjusted by turning the outer ring of the jet itself, and like Amanda mentioned you can vary the experience by how much air flow, etc to various jets with diverter valves, air mixture, etc). Play around with controls while wet testing to see how varying these functions changes the feel of the jets. Pulsating jets are also great. Some companies that stress 94 jets may have one jet they call 22 jets with a shower type jet that has tiny little holes that may feel worse. Find a spa with zone therapy. Some companies team up with doctors to get the message where it matters. I know coleman spa is in the arthritis foundation and you may be opt to find one you are looking for. Also that D1 looks and feels good. Make sure that you wont float out of a lounge so the ertanomics are important in lounges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzz Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Pulsating jets are also great. Some companies that stress 94 jets may have one jet they call 22 jets with a shower type jet that has tiny little holes that may feel worse. Find a spa with zone therapy. Some companies team up with doctors to get the message where it matters. I know coleman spa is in the arthritis foundation and you may be opt to find one you are looking for. Also that D1 looks and feels good. Make sure that you wont float out of a lounge so the ertanomics are important in lounges. What is ertanomics??? Are they painful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 What is ertanomics??? Are they painful? erganomics is the molding design to keep you situated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 erganomics is the molding design to keep you situated You want them recessed and you want the spa designed well so that the jets aren't to the point where you have difficulty even staying in the seat when the jets are on (a wet test really tells you all you need to know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzz Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 erganomics is the molding design to keep you situated Oh, erganomics, the old spell check failed again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ed Posted March 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Do jets wear out? Do they break? If you decide you don't like one is it easy to replace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soreback Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I'm going shopping for a tub and I think I have a handle on some of the things to look for with respect to finishes, motors, pumps, insulation and so forth, but nobody says much about jets. I've been in tubs with all sorts of jets, but I've never really paid any attention to them (hey, they are underwater and hard to see). From the promotional material I've read, jets are made of plastics, ceramics, brass, stainless steel, etc. The folks with brass or stainless claim long life and trouble-freeness, if that is a word. Is this true? Should I care what the jets are made of? Likewise, in the long term, what kinds of jets are most popular? Even if something feels good in a short wet test, I can imagine getting tired of it if it is gimmicky. I read in one of these discussions that small, high intensity jets can make a person feel itchy. I want warmth and relaxation rather than an intense massage. Any suggestions? Mr. Ed WARNING BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING A SPA FROM WEST CHESTER SPAS IN WEST CHESTER PA. We placed a deposit of $4200.00 on an LSX1050 Master Spa at a spa show at the Valley Forge Convention Center held by West Chester Spas. This was a new 2006 model with no extras added just the base unit new from the factory. The salesperson explained the many jets and features of the unit including the shoulder jet seats. It seamed like the perfect spa for us being we both have issues with our shoulder muscles since being involved in a serious auto accident several months ago. Although the salesman never asked us to get into the unit to see if we were comfortable in the shoulder jet seats, he did say that there was a male and a female sized shoulder jet seat, so we figured they should be fine. 1 week later at a home show we saw another dealer of the same products and decided to see if the prices were similar between dealers (this dealer was over 50 miles away from our home). After some brief conversation the first thing this sales rep asked us to do was to sit in the different spas to see how nice they felt and fit. We realized the shoulder jets of the LSX1050 on the male seat did not fit my shoulders as my shoulders would only fit if I slid my butt all they way out to the edge of the seat. I am 6’ 220 but a long upper torso. We did get a price from this dealer on the LSX1050 and found the price very close to one we already had. I contacted West Chester Spas and asked to take a wet test of the unit I placed a deposit on to make sure it was the same wet as dry. The next day I did so and found that I did not fit under the shoulder jets. The following day I contacted the owner Larry Granger and told him the problem. He is where the problem starts. I was told he would not refund my whole deposit. He said he had already paid a $1600.00 commission on the sale and I had to take a store credit for that amount. If I agreed to take a store credit for the $1600.00 then he would credit my credit card for the balance of the $4200.00 deposit. If I did not agree, he would not credit my credit card for anything and I would be on my own to the fight to get my deposit back. I can’t believe that the owner would not be able to recover a sales commission from his employee since the spa was never delivered. I also can’t believe that he would offer a $1600.00 store credit if he could not recover the sales commission. If my math is correct this would cost him the $1600.00 commission plus the value of the goods I purchased unless he would be able to recover the sales commission but just didn’t want to lose a sale. If this all seams strange to you, it certainly is confusing to the credit card company that I am disputing the charge with. Do you think this is someone who is interested in customer satisfaction or just his bottom line, you decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 WARNING BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING A SPA FROM WEST CHESTER SPAS IN WEST CHESTER PA. We placed a deposit of $4200.00 on an LSX1050 Master Spa at a spa show at the Valley Forge Convention Center held by West Chester Spas. This was a new 2006 model with no extras added just the base unit new from the factory. The salesperson explained the many jets and features of the unit including the shoulder jet seats. It seamed like the perfect spa for us being we both have issues with our shoulder muscles since being involved in a serious auto accident several months ago. Although the salesman never asked us to get into the unit to see if we were comfortable in the shoulder jet seats, he did say that there was a male and a female sized shoulder jet seat, so we figured they should be fine. 1 week later at a home show we saw another dealer of the same products and decided to see if the prices were similar between dealers (this dealer was over 50 miles away from our home). After some brief conversation the first thing this sales rep asked us to do was to sit in the different spas to see how nice they felt and fit. We realized the shoulder jets of the LSX1050 on the male seat did not fit my shoulders as my shoulders would only fit if I slid my butt all they way out to the edge of the seat. I am 6’ 220 but a long upper torso. We did get a price from this dealer on the LSX1050 and found the price very close to one we already had. I contacted West Chester Spas and asked to take a wet test of the unit I placed a deposit on to make sure it was the same wet as dry. The next day I did so and found that I did not fit under the shoulder jets. The following day I contacted the owner Larry Granger and told him the problem. He is where the problem starts. I was told he would not refund my whole deposit. He said he had already paid a $1600.00 commission on the sale and I had to take a store credit for that amount. If I agreed to take a store credit for the $1600.00 then he would credit my credit card for the balance of the $4200.00 deposit. If I did not agree, he would not credit my credit card for anything and I would be on my own to the fight to get my deposit back. I can’t believe that the owner would not be able to recover a sales commission from his employee since the spa was never delivered. I also can’t believe that he would offer a $1600.00 store credit if he could not recover the sales commission. If my math is correct this would cost him the $1600.00 commission plus the value of the goods I purchased unless he would be able to recover the sales commission but just didn’t want to lose a sale. If this all seams strange to you, it certainly is confusing to the credit card company that I am disputing the charge with. Do you think this is someone who is interested in customer satisfaction or just his bottom line, you decide! How can he pay someone commision of 1600 dollars 1st all. 2nd all that is just wrong not giving the deposit back. Go to the credit card company and dispute the charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Kahuna Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Do jets wear out? Do they break? If you decide you don't like one is it easy to replace? Eventually, anything that moves will wear out, including jets (so yes, they can break too). Depending on the company, they can be anywhere from about $15 and up to replace, which is usually done easily by the user. As for replacing one if you don't like it, it depends on the spa. I know i can change mine as long as they are the same size to one with a slightly different effect. And i'm tired of the incorrect spelling of ERGONOMICS. It's ERGO, not ERGA. I'm not the greatest speller in the world, but i don't consistently spell the same word wrong, lol. And ergonomics is not strictly the molding design to keep you situated, it is a design to provide maximum comfort, proper posture and effectiveness. Ergonomics are used in developing many things, from snow shovels to office chairs. It is a design that works with the body rather than against it. The dictionary definition (thanks to dictionary.com) is as follows: 1.(used with a sing. verb) The applied science of equipment design, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by reducing operator fatigue and discomfort. Also called biotechnology, human engineering, human factors engineering. 2.(used with a pl. verb) Design factors, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by minimizing operator fatigue and discomfort: The ergonomics of the new office were felt to be optimal. But you are partially correct, Brulan. Hope this clears up ergonomics. If they are painful, they are bad ergonomics, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Eventually, anything that moves will wear out, including jets (so yes, they can break too). Depending on the company, they can be anywhere from about $15 and up to replace, which is usually done easily by the user. As for replacing one if you don't like it, it depends on the spa. I know i can change mine as long as they are the same size to one with a slightly different effect. And i'm tired of the incorrect spelling of ERGONOMICS. It's ERGO, not ERGA. I'm not the greatest speller in the world, but i don't consistently spell the same word wrong, lol. And ergonomics is not strictly the molding design to keep you situated, it is a design to provide maximum comfort, proper posture and effectiveness. Ergonomics are used in developing many things, from snow shovels to office chairs. It is a design that works with the body rather than against it. The dictionary definition (thanks to dictionary.com) is as follows: 1.(used with a sing. verb) The applied science of equipment design, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by reducing operator fatigue and discomfort. Also called biotechnology, human engineering, human factors engineering. 2.(used with a pl. verb) Design factors, as for the workplace, intended to maximize productivity by minimizing operator fatigue and discomfort: The ergonomics of the new office were felt to be optimal. But you are partially correct, Brulan. Hope this clears up ergonomics. If they are painful, they are bad ergonomics, lol. Thankyou at least I am cosistant Some companies warranty there jets 5 years, 3 yrs, 3 months ect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Tub Guru Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 WET TEST.... Each person, each jet feels different. I do like the spinning jets. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 But you are partially correct, Brulan. That's twice this week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 WARNING BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING A SPA FROM WEST CHESTER SPAS IN WEST CHESTER PA. We placed a deposit of $4200.00 on an LSX1050 Master Spa at a spa show at the Valley Forge Convention Center held by West Chester Spas. This was a new 2006 model with no extras added just the base unit new from the factory. The salesperson explained the many jets and features of the unit including the shoulder jet seats. It seamed like the perfect spa for us being we both have issues with our shoulder muscles since being involved in a serious auto accident several months ago. Although the salesman never asked us to get into the unit to see if we were comfortable in the shoulder jet seats, he did say that there was a male and a female sized shoulder jet seat, so we figured they should be fine. 1 week later at a home show we saw another dealer of the same products and decided to see if the prices were similar between dealers (this dealer was over 50 miles away from our home). After some brief conversation the first thing this sales rep asked us to do was to sit in the different spas to see how nice they felt and fit. We realized the shoulder jets of the LSX1050 on the male seat did not fit my shoulders as my shoulders would only fit if I slid my butt all they way out to the edge of the seat. I am 6’ 220 but a long upper torso. We did get a price from this dealer on the LSX1050 and found the price very close to one we already had. I contacted West Chester Spas and asked to take a wet test of the unit I placed a deposit on to make sure it was the same wet as dry. The next day I did so and found that I did not fit under the shoulder jets. The following day I contacted the owner Larry Granger and told him the problem. He is where the problem starts. I was told he would not refund my whole deposit. He said he had already paid a $1600.00 commission on the sale and I had to take a store credit for that amount. If I agreed to take a store credit for the $1600.00 then he would credit my credit card for the balance of the $4200.00 deposit. If I did not agree, he would not credit my credit card for anything and I would be on my own to the fight to get my deposit back. I can’t believe that the owner would not be able to recover a sales commission from his employee since the spa was never delivered. I also can’t believe that he would offer a $1600.00 store credit if he could not recover the sales commission. If my math is correct this would cost him the $1600.00 commission plus the value of the goods I purchased unless he would be able to recover the sales commission but just didn’t want to lose a sale. If this all seams strange to you, it certainly is confusing to the credit card company that I am disputing the charge with. Do you think this is someone who is interested in customer satisfaction or just his bottom line, you decide! I'm sorry you are in this position. I would refrain from posting warnings untill the situation has come to an end. Document everything, names, times you've spoken, what was said... this will aid you in your dispute. I hope it resolves itself quickly. Keep us posted! Do jets wear out? Do they break? If you decide you don't like one is it easy to replace? Water cuts channels through mountains... it can wear out or break a jet. There are ways to care for your water that will help reduce this significantly. I've seen jets last a couple of months (with very poor water care) up to 12 years (when they were cared for properly). A reputable company will take care of you if you come across some challenges in this area as they are very easy to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris H Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Soreback, I have been to this Spa Show with national manufacturers that was discussed in the following link: Valley Forge Spa Show The owner pays the commission at the time of the sale because he uses sales sub-contractors at this show. I am pretty sure the dealer can get his money back from the sales guy. Send my a private message if you want me to recommend some real dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Soreback, I have been to this Spa Show with national manufacturers that was discussed in the following link: Valley Forge Spa Show The owner pays the commission at the time of the sale because he uses sales sub-contractors at this show. I am pretty sure the dealer can get his money back from the sales guy. Send my a private message if you want me to recommend some real dealers. I want to do that one day and hire a sales force to do it in a week and make a tent show out in the Hamptons. I heard of those being great successes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ed Posted March 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Water cuts channels through mountains... it can wear out or break a jet. There are ways to care for your water that will help reduce this significantly. I've seen jets last a couple of months (with very poor water care) up to 12 years (when they were cared for properly). A reputable company will take care of you if you come across some challenges in this area as they are very easy to replace. Apart from keeping your water clean and chemically balanced is there some other kind of "water care" which affects the jets and other equipment? Does the type of filter or water treatment (eg., chlorine, bromine, ozone, etc.) have an effect on tub life or performance? You mention "ways to care for your water" that will reduce wear and breakage significantly. Don't keep me in the dark...what are these hot tub water secrets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Apart from keeping your water clean and chemically balanced is there some other kind of "water care" which affects the jets and other equipment? Does the type of filter or water treatment (eg., chlorine, bromine, ozone, etc.) have an effect on tub life or performance? You mention "ways to care for your water" that will reduce wear and breakage significantly. Don't keep me in the dark...what are these hot tub water secrets? Keep the PH in range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzz Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Keep the PH in range Some helpfull reading http://www.hotspring.com/Hot_Tub_Customers/spa_care.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot N Wet Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Well Mr. Ed, there is a difference in sanitation. Bromine is a more stable compound in hot water than chlorine is. Chlorine has a natural tendency to revert to it's gaseous state in normal hot tub temperatures of 99 to 105 degrees. The other nice thing about bromine is if it does not come into contact with bacteria it can be reverted from an inactive element to an active element by being introduced to Ozone. Bromine and an ozinator with a mineral cartridge is, in my opinion, the most cost effective and efficient method of sanitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Well Mr. Ed, there is a difference in sanitation. Bromine is a more stable compound in hot water than chlorine is. Chlorine has a natural tendency to revert to it's gaseous state in normal hot tub temperatures of 99 to 105 degrees. The other nice thing about bromine is if it does not come into contact with bacteria it can be reverted from an inactive element to an active element by being introduced to Ozone. Bromine and an ozinator with a mineral cartridge is, in my opinion, the most cost effective and efficient method of sanitation. I respect your posts in general but here's where we differ. I've found few people who like a bromine spa and many who've been wanting to switch so they can avoid the bromine. It does santizie well with a floater or in-line cartridge but at what cost. I soooo much prefer a chlorine/ozone/Nature 2 approach or just chlorine alone if that's the case. that way I add chlorine after each use (plus shock once per week and check alk/ph)and as you indicated, the chlorine off gases so that when you go in the next time its not a chemical soup you're soaking in like bromine. To each his own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzz Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I respect your posts in general but here's where we differ. I've found few people who like a bromine spa and many who've been wanting to switch so they can avoid the bromine. It does santizie well with a floater or in-line cartridge but at what cost. I soooo much prefer a chlorine/ozone/Nature 2 approach or just chlorine alone if that's the case. that way I add chlorine after each use (plus shock once per week and check alk/ph)and as you indicated, the chlorine off gases so that when you go in the next time its not a chemical soup you're soaking in like bromine. To each his own! My preferance also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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