"vision" Cartridge For D1 Yea? Nea?

[yelofelo]

I have a new D1 on order, and In discussing chemicals with the dealer, he suggested that minimal chlorine is required because of the Vision cartridge system used in the tub. I understand that it uses 500mg of silver to kill off those nasty microbugs. Is this reasonable advice? I understand that I cannot use Bromine in combination with the silver... How much am I likely to need to mess with chemistry as a newbie spa owner? He also said that water shouldn't need to be changed any more often than once every 6 months if filters are kept clean. Reasonable?

Thanks in advance!

[Canadian Kahuna]

Your water changes will depend on usage of your tub. Tubs in high use should be changed more often. Typically, 3 - 4 months is when water should be changed, but maybe you could extend it somehow. When your water chemistry becomes difficult to balance or water is hard to keep clear and odour free, it's definitely time to change it. I use bromine, so can't help you with your other end.

[tony]

I have a new D1 on order, and In discussing chemicals with the dealer, he suggested that minimal chlorine is required because of the Vision cartridge system used in the tub. I understand that it uses 500mg of silver to kill off those nasty microbugs. Is this reasonable advice? I understand that I cannot use Bromine in combination with the silver... How much am I likely to need to mess with chemistry as a newbie spa owner? He also said that water shouldn't need to be changed any more often than once every 6 months if filters are kept clean. Reasonable?

Thanks in advance!

A little bit of salesmanship. The vision cartridge is similar to Nature2 or the Frog. You can search and find a ton of information on those mineral systems. A minimal chlorine routine with the mineral cartridge and a periodic shock is a very safe way to maintain your water. The frog can be used with bromine also. It is not the silver in the cartridge that cannot be used with bromine, but most likely copper or other ingredients. Silver really doesn't do the complete job of killing bacteria, thus the addition of chlorine. There are also other organisms in water that chlorine will kill that silver won't touch.

Whether you use a mineral cartridge or not, you are still going to have to learn water chemistry. Balancing your water and making sure there is enough sanitizer is an ongoing process. New owners tend to overdo it and there is a learning curve, but eventually it will be a weekly chore that will take maybe ten minutes.

The only way I know of extending with good water the six month changes are the enzyme systems such as Eco One or the Natural. Otherwise, you may get six months, but your water is going to be less managable. The Vision system is not going to extend your water changes. Too many other variables...the biggest being TDS (total dissolved solids) which don't get filtered out...will dictate when to change. Four months is usually the upper end of good. You'll be amazed at how nice fresh water is after sitting in four month old water. I just ain't worth stretching it.

The bottom line is don't fret about it...its not that bad. Just enjoy the hot water.

[Guest dcrabbit]

I am also a newbie. I have a sundance which has a built in brominator in the gate. I started out whith granular chlorine (spa56) but I was having to add it almost daily too much work. So I started over with bromine tabs in my brominator. But they desolved too fast about 5 days. I now am using a floater which you can adjust the strength of bromine and it holds many tabs. It lasts the whole week. I then refill floater and shock the spa, weekly. I am also confused about the mineral purifiers. Nature 2 says not to use with bromine so does sun purity but spa frog is a floater that is bromine and a mineral cartridge. What is the difference and are they really good to use. They say you can keep your sanitizer at a lower level, if you remember to do that. Why cant you use 1 inch chlorine tabs in a floater? Thay say not to.

[sharkman009]

I am also a newbie. I have a sundance which has a built in brominator in the gate. I started out whith granular chlorine (spa56) but I was having to add it almost daily too much work. So I started over with bromine tabs in my brominator. But they desolved too fast about 5 days. I now am using a floater which you can adjust the strength of bromine and it holds many tabs. It lasts the whole week. I then refill floater and shock the spa, weekly. I am also confused about the mineral purifiers. Nature 2 says not to use with bromine so does sun purity but spa frog is a floater that is bromine and a mineral cartridge. What is the difference and are they really good to use. They say you can keep your sanitizer at a lower level, if you remember to do that. Why cant you use 1 inch chlorine tabs in a floater? Thay say not to.

The mineral purifiers will work to a certain degree. Im always a little leary of new products that are presented to be the cure all. When some of these products first came out that is how they were presented to the public and we began seeing more customers coming into our store with psudamonis because they were using the cartridges and no other sanitizer. Now most manufacturers have changed their labeling to tell customers to add chlorine as needed. I have tried the cartridges and found change in the amount of chemical I was using. As you said about maintaining your sanitizer levels at a lower level it gives you less of buffer if you forget to go out and test your spa for a few days. The reason you dont want to use chlorine tabs is that they are made with Trichloro which is a strong form of chlorine that is made to treat swimming pool water where your gallon capacities are much higher. With these tablets it would be very easy to overdose your spa and if any of the pieces of the tablets come into contact with the surface of the spa it can damage it. Some manufacturers even use these tablets to test their shells. They place one on their shell and let it sit to see how long it takes for it to damage the surface.

[wantaspa]

I purchased/installed a D1 in November with Vision cartridge installed. I use a little chorine crystals after each use to help sanitize or at least 2-3 times weekly as maintenance. I also have ozone generation as well. The information I got with my D1 helped also explain a little of the water chemistry, and the dealer helped intially as well as questions later. I'm down to maintenance 2-3 times per week with a little chlorine. On Mondays, I add bright and clear, on Wed I add Defender, and on Fri I add enzyme. My water is great!

This is in comparison to two previous spas where I relied heavily on bromine or chorine for sanitization. I'm convinced on the mineral (vision cartridge), that I am doing the same for my pool

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I purchased/installed a D1 in November with Vision cartridge installed. I use a little chorine crystals after each use to help sanitize or at least 2-3 times weekly as maintenance. I also have ozone generation as well. The information I got with my D1 helped also explain a little of the water chemistry, and the dealer helped intially as well as questions later. I'm down to maintenance 2-3 times per week with a little chlorine. On Mondays, I add bright and clear, on Wed I add Defender, and on Fri I add enzyme. My water is great!

This is in comparison to two previous spas where I relied heavily on bromine or chorine for sanitization. I'm convinced on the mineral (vision cartridge), that I am doing the same for my pool

I think the silver cartridges are a good addition whether you get the Vision one supplied by D1 or the standard one from Nature 2 but in the end they are just a suppliment to a good sanitizing routine.

[sharkman009]

I purchased/installed a D1 in November with Vision cartridge installed. I use a little chorine crystals after each use to help sanitize or at least 2-3 times weekly as maintenance. I also have ozone generation as well. The information I got with my D1 helped also explain a little of the water chemistry, and the dealer helped intially as well as questions later. I'm down to maintenance 2-3 times per week with a little chlorine. On Mondays, I add bright and clear, on Wed I add Defender, and on Fri I add enzyme. My water is great!

This is in comparison to two previous spas where I relied heavily on bromine or chorine for sanitization. I'm convinced on the mineral (vision cartridge), that I am doing the same for my pool

Thats great that you have found a system that works good for you. One of the big problems is that a lot of these systems are sold without informing customers how to use them properly and letting them know that you have to test regularly to make sure you are treating it properly. Im sure that your ozonator is having a large impact on your chemical usage. What levels did D1 recomend you maintain your sanitizer levels?

[tony]

I am also a newbie. I have a sundance which has a built in brominator in the gate. I started out whith granular chlorine (spa56) but I was having to add it almost daily too much work. So I started over with bromine tabs in my brominator. But they desolved too fast about 5 days. I now am using a floater which you can adjust the strength of bromine and it holds many tabs. It lasts the whole week. I then refill floater and shock the spa, weekly. I am also confused about the mineral purifiers. Nature 2 says not to use with bromine so does sun purity but spa frog is a floater that is bromine and a mineral cartridge. What is the difference and are they really good to use. They say you can keep your sanitizer at a lower level, if you remember to do that. Why cant you use 1 inch chlorine tabs in a floater? Thay say not to.

If you would like to stay with bromine and use the spa frog, I would suggest getting the regular cartridge and place it on top of your filter, not in it, and use your own bromine floater. This is the most cost effective way to use this sytem. You can purchase your normal bromine tabs rather than those packaged exclusively for the frog and shop down the mineral cartridge. It is sold as both the frog by king technologies and the Leisure Time mineral cartridge. You can maintain a lower bromine level with this system.

If you choose to try chlorine again with a mineral cartridge, you could use Nature2, Frog, LeisureTime or the Sun Purity (which is Nature2 built to store in the Sundance brominator). I would suggest a routine where you add the spa56 granular chlorine after you use the spa rather than trying to maintain a constant chlorine level. Use enough to raise your free chlorine level to 2+ ppm. For most spas this is one to two tsp. By the time you use your spa again, the free chlorine level will be close to zero, so you are soaking in clean chem free water. Shock weekly or as needed with non chlorine shock or with chlorine. Check your pH and TA weekly. There are some detailed dichlor routines at www.rhtubs.com forum in the FAQ section.

As was mentioned, no chlorine tabs in your Sundance spa. It will void your warranty.

[yelofelo]

Thanks everyone for your feedback! This is a great forum, and one I'm sure I will continue to visit often as I come up to speed on spa ownership.

[ce99]

I have a new D1 on order, and In discussing chemicals with the dealer, he suggested that minimal chlorine is required because of the Vision cartridge system used in the tub. I understand that it uses 500mg of silver to kill off those nasty microbugs. Is this reasonable advice? I understand that I cannot use Bromine in combination with the silver... How much am I likely to need to mess with chemistry as a newbie spa owner? He also said that water shouldn't need to be changed any more often than once every 6 months if filters are kept clean. Reasonable?

Thanks in advance!

I'm just like you with a new D1 spa. I have the Vision filter to. My water gets cloudy every week and I just shock it which helps but the ph level on the test strips are always high. I put Decreaser in the tub for a couple days (2 capfuls) which brought down the ph level but now thee water is coudy again. What should I doto clear it back up? Shock it? Or put Cholorin in it? Says I can't use Bromine with the Vision cartridge.

[navsav]

Hi All,

This is a great thread and I was about to post almost the same question. I have recently purchased the d1 diplomat. Our dealer basically said you need almost no chlrine in the tub. However from reading various things it seems like that is not necessarily the best advice. Maany are saying you should have chlorine even in a Ozone/silver system. Per my dealer these were my exact instructions. 1) shock with MPS twice per week 2) Superchorinate with 2OZ dichlor once per week 3) clean filter with filter cleaner once per month.

After doing this for a bit I find that once per weel of cholination is not enough. Water gets cloudy and smells funny. So now I started adding some 2-3 times per week and it is working better.

Here is another question - the D1 cartidge costs 200 bucks (ouch) Can I use Nature in the D1 since it is cheaper to buy? Do I even need to bother with a cartridge if I up the chlorine?

[tony]

Hi All,

This is a great thread and I was about to post almost the same question. I have recently purchased the d1 diplomat. Our dealer basically said you need almost no chlrine in the tub. However from reading various things it seems like that is not necessarily the best advice. Maany are saying you should have chlorine even in a Ozone/silver system. Per my dealer these were my exact instructions. 1) shock with MPS twice per week 2) Superchorinate with 2OZ dichlor once per week 3) clean filter with filter cleaner once per month.

After doing this for a bit I find that once per weel of cholination is not enough. Water gets cloudy and smells funny. So now I started adding some 2-3 times per week and it is working better.

Here is another question - the D1 cartidge costs 200 bucks (ouch) Can I use Nature in the D1 since it is cheaper to buy? Do I even need to bother with a cartridge if I up the chlorine?

I have found the same thing. I need to add chlorine on a regular basis to keep the water nice even with ozone and a mineral cartridge. At $200 you could use about ten Nature2 or Frog cartridges. Although D1 people will tell you theirs holds more silver and lasts longer, I don't see the value.

There is no need to use mineral cartridges if you wish. After using both minerals and ozone for four years, I have stopped using both with excellent results. Ozone and minerals help, but I do just fine without them.

[navsav]

I have found the same thing. I need to add chlorine on a regular basis to keep the water nice even with ozone and a mineral cartridge. At $200 you could use about ten Nature2 or Frog cartridges. Although D1 people will tell you theirs holds more silver and lasts longer, I don't see the value.

There is no need to use mineral cartridges if you wish. After using both minerals and ozone for four years, I have stopped using both with excellent results. Ozone and minerals help, but I do just fine without them.

So Can I use the Nature Catridge in my d1 spa over the vision cartridge? It does the smae thing for cheaper right?

[tony]

So Can I use the Nature Catridge in my d1 spa over the vision cartridge? It does the smae thing for cheaper right?

I believe the Vision cartridge contains more silver so it is supposed to last longer and kill more bacteria, but I'm not sure if it does a whole lot better job. Judging from some of the posts, the issues seem to be the same. Silver is a very slow killer of bacteria and does so by weakening bacteria's outer shell. Chlorine is a very fast and violent killer of bacteria, essentially exploding or vaporizing it. The problem with chlorine is it does its job (and does it well) and goes away making it difficult to maintain a residual. Silver hangs around in the water but does very little. The two together make a good pair. As a matter of fact, there are studies out there that say silver makes chlorine a better sanitizer. You can use a Nature2 cartridge in your D1 spa. Nature2 can be bought in the twenty plus dollar range. It does basically the same thing. No matter what, you should use a sanitizer of which there are three, chlorine, bromine or biguanide. Everything else is a companion or helper including silver.

[chem geek]

Though nobody really talks about it, PolyQuat that is used as an algaecide in pools is also a clarifier and inhibits bacterial growth. It is "slow-acting" like silver and also has a synergistic effect with chlorine. It's a cationic (positively charged) polymer that is attracted to the negatively charged cell walls of bacteria and algae and blocks their ion channels (so they eventually "starve" and cannot reproduce). It slowly gets broken down by chlorine and the clarifier action has it consolidate particles to keep water clear and get caught in the filter, so it needs to be added in small amounts weekly (VERY small for a hot tub).

Just throwing out another alternative. Really, chlorine alone (or bromine alone) can sanitize a hot tub, but it's true that chlorine goes away quickly so needs to be added (usually) every day. Using Trichlor or Dichlor exclusively, however, will lead to a buildup of Cyanuric Acid (CYA) which makes chlorine less effective so after 1-2 weeks of Dichlor usage one can switch to unscented bleach to keep disinfection levels higher (mostly to kill the bacteria that causes hot tub itch, Pseudomonas aeruginosa). Most people don't get hot tub itch even though the bacteria is present so the risk is low, but 4 users on this forum got an itch after 1-2 months of Dichlor-only use (one of them, who was diagnosed by a doctor with hot tub lung, tried my method of Dichlor for 1-2 weeks and then bleach with success, the other still got an itch though was not diagnosed by a doctor, and the other two never responded back so I don't know).

Richard

[D1*Diva]

I just paid $80 for a vision cartridge. I've never seen them higher than $100.

Kris

[ce99]

I just paid $80 for a vision cartridge. I've never seen them higher than $100.

Kris

I paid $69.00 on ebay

[Jetman]

Using Trichlor or Dichlor exclusively, however, will lead to a buildup of Cyanuric Acid (CYA) which makes chlorine less effective so after 1-2 weeks of Dichlor usage one can switch to unscented bleach to keep disinfection levels higher (mostly to kill the bacteria that causes hot tub itch, Pseudomonas aeruginosa). Most people don't get hot tub itch even though the bacteria is present so the risk is low, but 4 users on this forum got an itch after 1-2 months of Dichlor-only use (one of them, who was diagnosed by a doctor with hot tub lung, tried my method of Dichlor for 1-2 weeks and then bleach with success, the other still got an itch though was not diagnosed by a doctor, and the other two never responded back so I don't know).

Richard

HEY RICH!!

I have had my D1 Serena Bay running since Oct 3rd. I purchased used. Recently I have been reading many threads on water chemistry. In my recent test I noticed my ph( 6.2) and Alk (40ppm) dropped since I added my Nature2 mineral cartridge. Is that typical? I made adj ..ph up & alk up to bring my levels to OK range. ( 7.4-7.8 ph and 80-100ppm alk ). I didn't realize the alk up would also raise the ph otherwise I would have done that first. Anyway I also noticed on my test strips that the STABILIZER level was at 100ppm. I am assuming this is the CYA level?? After reading some of your posts, I am thinking of switching to unscented bleach for my sanitizer to stop my CYA levels from climbing to higher levels that make the chlorine less effective. How do I know how much unscented bleach to add for 500 gal D1 with ozinator and nature2 min cartridge? Will I still have to put it in daily?? 1-2 soaks per day 20-30 min each.

THANK you for your help in advance!!

Paul

[chem geek]

I responded to your PM on this as well. Yes, stabilizer is CYA so you should switch to using unscented bleach. 4 fluid ounces (8 tablespoons) of 6% bleach (Clorox regular or off-brand Ultra) will raise the FC by 4 ppm in 500 gallons. As for the pH and Alk, Dichlor is actually acidic when you account for chlorine usage so that's probably what caused that -- the mineral cartridge shouldn't cause it. And yes, you will probably have to add the chlorine every day.

Richard