Ah, The Spa Business

[Dogman]

My wife and I had looked at a D1 Nautilus. The store wanted 9 grand. To me, that was too much. It's just a hot tub. Then they called and said they'd go to $8500. Sorry, still too much, since we were looking at building a gazebo to enclose the tub. We ended up getting a MasterSpa with similar specs, plus a 14x14 redwood enclosure, trimmed out with windows and all, for $10,800. It seemed like a good way to go. The gazebo is gorgeous. The D1 dealer kept calling, and to get them off my back I told them I'd gone with the Master. Next thing I know the owner of the D1 store calls me and rants for five minutes about Masters being crap, that I'd never get service, even referring to the MasterSpa sales team as a "carnival act." Sheesh! I finally had to interrupt the guy and tell him, "Dude....if this is the way you do business, trash-talking your competition, I'd NEVER buy from you!"

I'm in the insurance business. If I quote someone some car insurance and they go with someone else, I move on. I'd never call the customer I lost and try to scare them about their decision. I'm so glad my spa-buying experience is over. Why does the spa business have to be so vicious? Where's the love?

[hottubdan]

"We ended up getting a MasterSpa with similar specs"

I am sure you will be fine with your tub. the D1 dealer should thank you for the opportunity and move on. However, to say you got a Masterspa with similar specs is like saying you were looking at a Lexus and chose to get a Chevy with similar specs.

[Dogman]

I stand corrected. I should have said "same size, same number of pumps but even more jets." I wouldn't buy a Lexus either. The Chevy can get me where I need to be.

[Brulan1]

I stand corrected. I should have said "same size, same number of pumps but even more jets." I wouldn't buy a Lexus either. The Chevy can get me where I need to be.

Sounds like the story today with a customer from the home show. She looked at Marquis which happened to be at the same show and we have Coleman. The woman comes by my store after she leaves a deposit with the dealer. Now given my business has been around since 1970 and doing Coleman since 1985 we are very highly recommended. I gave my pitch and got her in the spa right for her needs 471.. She loved the idea of Gavalume framing and energy conservation with thermal lock or pane type insulation. She loved the seating also. I had to compare the tubs but didn't say one bad thing about marquis the 630 model. There was a 100 dollar difference with ending prices between us. She loved the fact that we have inhouse service techincians. Now the Marquis dealer leaves her 5 messages in a matter of an hour and keep on calling her after she said she wants her deposit back. They are giving her a hard time and started bad mouthing us saying we subcontract and that marquis is inferior but didn't give her a reason. The guy bad mouth me. So now on the last message they left her they said that they would lower the price a thousand dollars. Now the woman calls me and tells me the scenario and that now she is confused. I said oh thats great so now he really knows what the tub is worth. Hey if knowing you could of paid 1000 less after you purchased the tub how would that make you feel? It comes down to what you value more, I did the best I can for you and I understand if you change your mind. I confirmed with her that I would send some random references to you in the mail and she appreciated that more than anything. That kind of made me feel good because they got desprerate and even called there rep that helped them with the home and garden show to call the woman and she thinks they arer pathetic now. But anyway the morale is not to knock customers because you shouldn't have a reason to when the product you sell is quality and that means every spa but keeping in mind the dealer means alot too.

[Roger]

I gave my pitch and got her in the spa right for her needs 471.. She loved the idea of Gavalume framing and energy conservation with thermal lock or pane type insulation. She loved the seating also.

You guys are both correct you should never bad mouth another brand to make a sale but....you also should never lie. How does she exactly get any energy conservation by getting a Coleman over a Marquis? But if she loved the seating that is what is important.

[Brulan1]

You guys are both correct you should never bad mouth another brand to make a sale but....you also should never lie. How does she exactly get any energy conservation by getting a Coleman over a Marquis? But if she loved the seating that is what is important.

Instead of having a circulating pump run 24 hrs. The coleman runs 2-3hr cycles a day. Common sense says savings I think.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Instead of having a circulating pump run 24 hrs. The coleman runs 2-3hr cycles a day. Common sense says savings I think.

True, there may be a little bit of savings using the samll circ pump 24/7 versus running the larger pump (typically 2 hrs per day is too low, more like 3-5) but it would be minimal. It's best to call this one a wash as far as energy use. The main reason I prefer the circ pump is to get ozone 24/7.

[Brulan1]

True, there may be a little bit of savings using the samll circ pump 24/7 versus running the larger pump (typically 2 hrs per day is too low, more like 3-5) but it would be minimal. It's best to call this one a wash as far as energy use. The main reason I prefer the circ pump is to get ozone 24/7.

If ozone kills bacteria and you are running it 24 hrs a day, could that be harmful to the people? A beam of light that strong could cause cancer so having it run 24/7 would be hazardous. In fact it doesn't run 24 hrs a day. It turns off when you put your pumps on when you have a circulating pump.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

If ozone kills bacteria and you are running it 24 hrs a day, could that be harmful to the people? A beam of light that strong could cause cancer so having it run 24/7 would be hazardous. In fact it doesn't run 24 hrs a day. It turns off when you put your pumps on when you have a circulating pump.

Huh? Is that what non-circ pump spa salesman are saying onwadays?. I almost fell over with that one.

A circ pump with a CD ozonator gives you ozone 24/7 and there is no beam of light to blind you, no lazer beam to cut you in half, no radioactivity to cause a mutation and no voodoo curse from it's use.

[Dr. Spa]

A beam of light that strong could cause cancer so having it run 24/7 would be hazardous.

That's got to be the most sleezy, scum bag of a salesmans made up lie I think I've ever heard of in the industry.

How about I help you with some more.....................

You don't want more than one pump as the electormagnet feild of additional pumps could cause cancer.

Our jets are as strong as possible so as to not risk "psupatio skin disease" cause by forcing water into the pores.

LED lighting might cause retna damage.

The noise emitted by a waterfall can reduce some peoples *** drive.

the off-gassing of plastic siding can cause lung damage.

oops........... pizza's here........ gotta go

[Canadian Kahuna]

If ozone kills bacteria and you are running it 24 hrs a day, could that be harmful to the people? A beam of light that strong could cause cancer so having it run 24/7 would be hazardous. In fact it doesn't run 24 hrs a day. It turns off when you put your pumps on when you have a circulating pump.

Take a look at the ozone output of any of the spas. Now take a look at the ozone output of most air purifiers for homes (including those that actually hook up to the heating/central air systems). Funny that the ozone output in air can be as high or higher than that of a hot tub, but nobody is getting cancer from it. Ozone itself does not cause cancer, free radicals are known to cause cancer, ozone CAN cause free radicals if it is taken in at levels that are too high. The levels of ozone in hot tubs, air purifiers, etc are not known to be high enough to cause cancer.

Oh, smoking IS known to cause cancer (along with many other problems) but many still do it (myself being one). Emissions from fossil fuels are carcinogenic, yet we still drive our cars, heat our homes, etc. Emissions from many pulp/paper mills have carcinogenic chemicals, yet we still continue to print books, newspapers and wipe our @$$. Living under or around power lines can cause cancer from the electromagnetic feilds, yet we still have electricity. Staring at the sun can cause permanent retinal damage, but we still enjoy daylight. Those little laser pointers can cause retinal damage if you put the laser in your eye for an extended period of time, but only an idiot does that.

Now, where is your SCIENTIFIC findings to back up what you are saying? How many people in the tub expose themselves DIRECTLY to the bulb that produces ozone . . . hmm, maybe that's why it's enclosed.

No offence, Brulan, you are a spa dealer and should know your stuff, I do not deal hot tubs, but did major in science in university (Bio-Chem double major, minor in english), and did my research into ozone before buying a tub. Before talking, please do the research, the ACTUAL research, scientific studies, and not those done by spa companies as they tend to be tainted. There is plenty of research you can read up on about ozone online, and the safe limits of it for the human body.

To everyone else, sorry for my rant. I'm tired of seeing people speak of things they know nothing of, or where it is clear they did no research whatsoever but put an opinion based on what they heard from a friend, or thier company, etc. It is a great pet peave of mine.

Oh, BTW, my tub does not have ozone, but the decision was based on the fact that it only cuts a fraction of the chemicals needed down, and is another piece of equipment that will need maintanence.

[Dr. Spa]

RANT ON!!!!!!!!!! I see his statement simply as a sleazy scare tactic and down right LIE to coerce people into buying his product over the competition.

BTW, my understanding is that the EPA has limited air purifiers to 50 ppb (billion) ozone output.

Take a look at the ozone output of any of the spas. Now take a look at the ozone output of most air purifiers for homes (including those that actually hook up to the heating/central air systems). Funny that the ozone output in air can be as high or higher than that of a hot tub, but nobody is getting cancer from it. Ozone itself does not cause cancer, free radicals are known to cause cancer, ozone CAN cause free radicals if it is taken in at levels that are too high. The levels of ozone in hot tubs, air purifiers, etc are not known to be high enough to cause cancer.

Oh, smoking IS known to cause cancer (along with many other problems) but many still do it (myself being one). Emissions from fossil fuels are carcinogenic, yet we still drive our cars, heat our homes, etc. Emissions from many pulp/paper mills have carcinogenic chemicals, yet we still continue to print books, newspapers and wipe our @$$. Living under or around power lines can cause cancer from the electromagnetic feilds, yet we still have electricity. Staring at the sun can cause permanent retinal damage, but we still enjoy daylight. Those little laser pointers can cause retinal damage if you put the laser in your eye for an extended period of time, but only an idiot does that.

Now, where is your SCIENTIFIC findings to back up what you are saying? How many people in the tub expose themselves DIRECTLY to the bulb that produces ozone . . . hmm, maybe that's why it's enclosed.

No offence, Brulan, you are a spa dealer and should know your stuff, I do not deal hot tubs, but did major in science in university (Bio-Chem double major, minor in english), and did my research into ozone before buying a tub. Before talking, please do the research, the ACTUAL research, scientific studies, and not those done by spa companies as they tend to be tainted. There is plenty of research you can read up on about ozone online, and the safe limits of it for the human body.

To everyone else, sorry for my rant. I'm tired of seeing people speak of things they know nothing of, or where it is clear they did no research whatsoever but put an opinion based on what they heard from a friend, or thier company, etc. It is a great pet peave of mine.

Oh, BTW, my tub does not have ozone, but the decision was based on the fact that it only cuts a fraction of the chemicals needed down, and is another piece of equipment that will need maintanence.

[Canadian Kahuna]

RANT ON!!!!!!!!!! I see his statement simply as a sleazy scare tactic and down right LIE to coerce people into buying his product over the competition.

BTW, my understanding is that the EPA has limited air purifiers to 50 ppb (billion) ozone output.

Actually, the federal limits for ozone production in the U.S. i believe are .04ppm This is not extremely high, keeping in mind that humans can typically smell ozone at about .01ppm (the smell that comes with a lightning storm, probably emits between .01ppm to .03ppm depending on electrical activity).

And as for how ozone is made, the UV bulb system tends to be safer and more effective. With better bulbs made these days and better ballasts as mentioned in previous posts, they can last approx 20,000 - 30,000 hours (about 3 years or so) before being relatively cheaply replaced. The CD system is more effective at producing ozone, and can do so at higher limits but also has it's drawbacks. The CD system not only affects the oxygen in the air but the nitrogen as well producing nitric acid and nitric oxide. Nitric Acid is extremely corrosive, and can cause irritation to the lungs even at low levels. This typically won't happen in spas as it dissipates in the water and is more of a problem in air purifier systems.

And just so you know brulan, i was not trying to attack you personally, just got a bit ticked off about the false information you presented. After all, we are all here to learn, right?

[Roger]

Oh, BTW, my tub does not have ozone, but the decision was based on the fact that it only cuts a fraction of the chemicals needed down, and is another piece of equipment that will need maintanence.

This is always something that could be added later on. I consider Ozone in combination with a Mineral purifier to be a nice way to be able to avoid adding chlorine every day. I have not added chlorine since wednesday when we soaked last it is saturday I am sure my water is perfect but will have to add another tsp tonight if we don't use it or if we do use it I will have to add tsp per person. If I can find my tub out there under all that snow.

You I think you said use Bromine through a feeder so it may not be as big an issue for you in between uses.

[sharkman009]

That's got to be the most sleezy, scum bag of a salesmans made up lie I think I've ever heard of in the industry.

How about I help you with some more.....................

You don't want more than one pump as the electormagnet feild of additional pumps could cause cancer.

Our jets are as strong as possible so as to not risk "psupatio skin disease" cause by forcing water into the pores.

LED lighting might cause retna damage.

The noise emitted by a waterfall can reduce some peoples *** drive.

the off-gassing of plastic siding can cause lung damage.

oops........... pizza's here........ gotta go

You forgot to mention that excessive noise from more than one jet pump may cause hearing loss and how about the cancer causing effects of the chemicals that we use.

Just when you think you've heard it all.

[Amanda]

My wife and I had looked at a D1 Nautilus. The store wanted 9 grand. To me, that was too much. It's just a hot tub. Then they called and said they'd go to $8500. Sorry, still too much, since we were looking at building a gazebo to enclose the tub. We ended up getting a MasterSpa with similar specs, plus a 14x14 redwood enclosure, trimmed out with windows and all, for $10,800. It seemed like a good way to go. The gazebo is gorgeous. The D1 dealer kept calling, and to get them off my back I told them I'd gone with the Master. Next thing I know the owner of the D1 store calls me and rants for five minutes about Masters being crap, that I'd never get service, even referring to the MasterSpa sales team as a "carnival act." Sheesh! I finally had to interrupt the guy and tell him, "Dude....if this is the way you do business, trash-talking your competition, I'd NEVER buy from you!"

I'm in the insurance business. If I quote someone some car insurance and they go with someone else, I move on. I'd never call the customer I lost and try to scare them about their decision. I'm so glad my spa-buying experience is over. Why does the spa business have to be so vicious? Where's the love?

Sorry you had that experience. I completely know what you mean!

We're not ALL like that though... you just have to weed through the unprofessionals sometimes. The situation you've described is something I work VERY hard at ALL THE TIME to change in this industry. Even in the shark/wolf filled sales world (in my opinion) there's got to be some kind of respect, honesty, and trust. Unfortunately there are many people in this industry that have a shark-type of approach... but there are quite a few that are not like that as well. You are right to only deal with the professionals. Everything we really needed to learn, we learned in grade school right?

I guess everywhere we go, there is going to be some nutty person acting like a squirrel trying to get a nut... but there's much more to the spa world than that insanity.

Therapy, rest, relaxation, healing, good quality time, family moments, relationship moments , fun, entertaining friends, star gazing, snow falling around a steam cloud,.... these are eventually some of the end results of purchasing a great spa with an even better company to stand behind their product. Settle for nothing less!

[thestallion]

Sorry you had that experience. I completely know what you mean!

We're not ALL like that though... you just have to weed through the unprofessionals sometimes. The situation you've described is something I work VERY hard at ALL THE TIME to change in this industry. Even in the shark/wolf filled sales world (in my opinion) there's got to be some kind of respect, honesty, and trust. Unfortunately there are many people in this industry that have a shark-type of approach... but there are quite a few that are not like that as well. You are right to only deal with the professionals. Everything we really needed to learn, we learned in grade school right?

I guess everywhere we go, there is going to be some nutty person acting like a squirrel trying to get a nut... but there's much more to the spa world than that insanity.

Therapy, rest, relaxation, healing, good quality time, family moments, relationship moments , fun, entertaining friends, star gazing, snow falling around a steam cloud,.... these are eventually some of the end results of purchasing a great spa with an even better company to stand behind their product. Settle for nothing less!

Whats being over looked here is the Marquis also filters in the same manner as the Coleman. It also does not use the 24 circ pump. I think in reality there are advantages to the system that uses the larger pump but thats for another debate. But when you talk about someones else product at least keep your facts straight.

[Brulan1]

Huh? Is that what non-circ pump spa salesman are saying onwadays?. I almost fell over with that one.

A circ pump with a CD ozonator gives you ozone 24/7 and there is no beam of light to blind you, no lazer beam to cut you in half, no radioactivity to cause a mutation and no voodoo curse from it's use.

A good ozonator has plasma cell not a beam of light. <----- UV light affects

[spa Dr.]

Instead of having a circulating pump run 24 hrs. The coleman runs 2-3hr cycles a day. Common sense says savings I think.

I am not aware of ANY Marquis with a circ pump.

[Brulan1]

I am not aware of ANY Marquis with a circ pump.

Your right you shouldn't be aware of one because there isn't one. Thankyou for the clarification

[sharkman009]

I am not aware of ANY Marquis with a circ pump.

They did use a Laing circ pump in their Ultimate series for about four years.

[Hot N Wet]

They did use a Laing circ pump in their Ultimate series for about four years.

Everyone is now right and on the same page. I sell Marquis, D1, and Clearwater. The sales tactics described earlier in the conversation absolutely disgust me. If you are selling a quality tub ensure that you simply get the message you're trying to convey across to the consumer. For a sale to happen you must show the benefits of your product and that should be enough. If your benefits and features appeal to the consumer and you build up some emotional rapport with them the sale is yours. Only inexperienced sales people would resort to such tactics as bashing the competition. I'll be the first to admit that I've found myself doing it in the past, but I can't recall ever closing a sale after doing so. There are a lot of quality tubs on the market with different approaches to solving different issues, but ultimately it is up to the consumer to choose what tub best suites their needs, regardless of a great presentation. One thing I've learned through sales training is some glorified marketing rep pumps up those ready to take in his enormous wealth of sales knowledge and he will make it a point that everyone who walks thru your showroom doors can be closed. It absolutely sickens me to hear these sales tactics conveyed. You know the old get them saying yes trick, or the let me ask my manager tactics. These are just my HUMBLE opinions on selling...build rapport, know your product, and allow the consumer to sell themselves.

[sharkman009]

Everyone is now right and on the same page. I sell Marquis, D1, and Clearwater. The sales tactics described earlier in the conversation absolutely disgust me. If you are selling a quality tub ensure that you simply get the message you're trying to convey across to the consumer. For a sale to happen you must show the benefits of your product and that should be enough. If your benefits and features appeal to the consumer and you build up some emotional rapport with them the sale is yours. Only inexperienced sales people would resort to such tactics as bashing the competition. I'll be the first to admit that I've found myself doing it in the past, but I can't recall ever closing a sale after doing so. There are a lot of quality tubs on the market with different approaches to solving different issues, but ultimately it is up to the consumer to choose what tub best suites their needs, regardless of a great presentation. One thing I've learned through sales training is some glorified marketing rep pumps up those ready to take in his enormous wealth of sales knowledge and he will make it a point that everyone who walks thru your showroom doors can be closed. It absolutely sickens me to hear these sales tactics conveyed. You know the old get them saying yes trick, or the let me ask my manager tactics. These are just my HUMBLE opinions on selling...build rapport, know your product, and allow the consumer to sell themselves.

I agree with most of what you said but unfortunately there are a lot of dealers in our industry that have been doing this a long time and they are experienced and this is how they chose to sell. When you read through some of the forums I cant believe some of the crap you hear people say. We all know that just like any other industry our industry has its junk being offered to the public but if we spend our time trying to knock those products most customers are going to get the attitude we are just trying to bash them. Case in point look at some of the threads where customers ask for info on different lines of mass merchant spas and if you give them an honest answer look at the response. Your all the same, your just scared because you cant compete, etc. Those of us that work on a lot of different brands know the truth and I've had to learn to bite my tongue and realize its our responsibility to teach our customers about what we sell and as you said let them decide. I do not allow high pressure tactics in my store and I have fired salesman before because of their tactics. I may lose some spa sales because we are not as agressive but I would rather have one happy customer that goes home totally convinced that he made the right decision than three that go home with buyers remorse.

Unfortunately we are always going to have the guys out there trashing everything they dont sell and we will just have to live with that and put ourselves above it.

[sharkman009]

I agree with most of what you said but unfortunately there are a lot of dealers in our industry that have been doing this a long time and they are experienced and this is how they chose to sell. When you read through some of the forums I cant believe some of the crap you hear people say. We all know that just like any other industry our industry has its junk being offered to the public but if we spend our time trying to knock those products most customers are going to get the attitude we are just trying to bash them. Case in point look at some of the threads where customers ask for info on different lines of mass merchant spas and if you give them an honest answer look at the response. Your all the same, your just scared because you cant compete, etc. Those of us that work on a lot of different brands know the truth and I've had to learn to bite my tongue and realize its our responsibility to teach our customers about what we sell and as you said let them decide. I do not allow high pressure tactics in my store and I have fired salesman before because of their tactics. I may lose some spa sales because we are not as agressive but I would rather have one happy customer that goes home totally convinced that he made the right decision than three that go home with buyers remorse.

Unfortunately we are always going to have the guys out there trashing everything they dont sell and we will just have to live with that and put ourselves above it.

I forgot to say, My opinion.

[Guzz]

I agree with most of what you said but unfortunately there are a lot of dealers in our industry that have been doing this a long time and they are experienced and this is how they chose to sell. When you read through some of the forums I cant believe some of the crap you hear people say. We all know that just like any other industry our industry has its junk being offered to the public but if we spend our time trying to knock those products most customers are going to get the attitude we are just trying to bash them. Case in point look at some of the threads where customers ask for info on different lines of mass merchant spas and if you give them an honest answer look at the response. Your all the same, your just scared because you cant compete, etc. Those of us that work on a lot of different brands know the truth and I've had to learn to bite my tongue and realize its our responsibility to teach our customers about what we sell and as you said let them decide. I do not allow high pressure tactics in my store and I have fired salesman before because of their tactics. I may lose some spa sales because we are not as agressive but I would rather have one happy customer that goes home totally convinced that he made the right decision than three that go home with buyers remorse.

Unfortunately we are always going to have the guys out there trashing everything they dont sell and we will just have to live with that and put ourselves above it.

Well said, I could'nt agree more. I see customers come in my store everyday that are confused with all the misinformation that they have been fed. last week I sold a spa to a gentleman who told me that he had had a thermo spa salespitch in his home and all the guy did was bash my spas, he told me that by the end of the presentation all he wanted to do was come and check out my spas because the thermo guy said they were so bad, he bought mine.