Cover Weight

[cman]

We live in Upstate NY and owned a HS spa for about 10 years. the biggest problem i have is that the cover eventually gets so heavy (saturated with water) that its incredibly hard to lift for anyone. Are there any known cures for this? thank you.

[Roger]

We live in Upstate NY and owned a HS spa for about 10 years. the biggest problem i have is that the cover eventually gets so heavy (saturated with water) that its incredibly hard to lift for anyone. Are there any known cures for this? thank you.

Yes you need a new cover and in order for it to last as long as possible you have to do everything you can to not get a tear in it. A quality cover lifter will help this. I have seen covers last for 6-8 years and I have also seen covers last for 3-4 tops. You can spend a little extra and get an upgraded cover which may or may not last longer depending on how it's taken care of, but it will make your tub more energy effiecient.

[Chas]

If your cover is too heavy to use, there is not much that can be done other than replace it.

However, to keep this scenario from repeating itself with your new cover, take these steps:

Throw away your floating feeder, unless you are using Brilliance. Anything else in a feeder and your cover will die early, getting heavy as it does.

If you add Dichlor and/or MPS to the tub, do so with the cover open, and run the jets for at least ten minutes before you close the lid.

[Aric]

Actually you can extend the life of your cover a couple years by cutting a couple of small drain holes in the bottom. Most likely on the bottom of your cover you already have drain holes, but due to sagging over the years, they are no longer at the lowest point. Just cut some small circles or square holes with a sharp knife at the lowest points, and that water will drain out. When I say small I mean like half the size of a dime.

You can also try to unzip your cover, remove and flip over the pads. That will often make a sagging cover flat again and allow the water to drain out as intended.

BTW I posted a more detailed post previously about how to cut the holes in the bottom of the cover, and it literally disappeared from this thread. I can't imagine why?

[Dr. Spa]

If you cut a hole in the underside of your cover you will probably cut through the seal around the foam, causing the foam to quickly gain even more moisture, causing it to become even heavier.

It's unusual for a cover to gain weight due too retaining water that can be simply drained out. Most likely it's moisture (steam) that's been absorbed into the foam. A poorly made cover will allow this to happen MANY YEARS before a well made cover... and there's NO (reasonable) way to remove this moisture from the foam.

Additionally, the underside material of a cover will normally slightly sag. Even if the foam is sagging, the underside of the material will sag even further. This makes the drain hole on the underside of the cover ALWAYS properly functional. But hey, what do I know. I've only been in this business a little over 26 years, and made a few hundred thousand covers.

[D.P. Roberts]

The other thing to point out is that after absorbing that much water, a cover has lost much of its insulation value.

[Chas]

Don't cut the vapor barrier. In fact, you should check it now and then to see if it is still in good shape.

Keyed item number 7 is the Vapor barrier - it is the 'bag' which wraps the foam cores under the vinyl.

[Dr. Spa]

Nice pic Chas............. Though I prefer this one;

[Roger]

Nice pic Chas............. Though I prefer this one;

I have purchased (well for other people) several of docs covers and can vouch for the fit and finish and to this point (couple years) there durability. Get the full lenght center seal and the reflective underside.

[Aric]

My cover, in which I described cutting drain holes did not have a vapor barrier. cman, I'd be curious to know if yours does. If not, try my fix first.

[Dr. Spa]

???????????????????????????

I've never heard of such a thing. Must be the cheapest POS that exists.

[Chas]

If your cover did not have a vapor barrier, then I can understand why you have posted what you did. However, covers should have a vapor barrier. The foam does get very heavy as it absorbs water.

This is also true of the 'closed cell' insulating foam in most spas. It absorbs water. I don't know how - I don't know why - and I have read reports that say it will not, can not, should not. Maybe the water goes in between the 'closed cells' or something, I don't know. But I have handled many covers (and many spas) which weighed so much that we had to cut them up to get them out.

As Doc says, he has sold thousands upon thousands, and they will absorb water unless protected by a vapor barrier. His covers offer an optional double wrap. I heard he got the idea from Taco Bell, but that might just be a rumor.

[hottublady]

A cover only really has a life of 5-8 yrs. Since you got 10 years thats great! There like tires on a car you will have to replace in time.

[Trigger]

Cman's cover is 10 years old.

It's had a full and happy life.

Go to Rhotubs.com and buy a new one!

[cman]

Please allow me to elaborate. My original cover lasted approximately 7 yrs - which is really great for a cover. The new one i got (which i got straight from HS dealer) is now almost 3 yrs old and is so heavy it is hard for anyone to lift. That said, i sold my 10 yo HS Sovereign and am waiting for delivery of a 2007 HS Grandee tomorrow. VERY COOL.

Anyway, with the new grandee cover being even bigger than the other. im trying to figure out how to stop this or at least avoid the water absorption problem as long as possible.

From what i can tell from most posts i got here (thank you all kindly for taking the time to reply) is that there isnt much you can do. The HS spa is not meshed on the bottom of the cover, there are drain holes, and i guess what i need to do is figure out how to keep the water flowing to them.

Maybe im one of the few concerned about this, but the cover got so heavy on my Sovereign, that my wife honestly could not fold it back. the second cover i got seemed worse than the first. It seems that someone should be able to come up with a better idea or design than this.

[Dr. Spa]

I grabbed this off my own FAQ page.........duh;

The foam a cover's cores are made of is called Expanded Polystyrene and is made of small beads that are expanded with steam. Once expanded they are dried and then "attached together" simply by compressing them. The more pressure they are compressed under, the high the density of the foam. The individual "beads" are waterproof! HOWEVER, water can saturate between the beads.

To prevent (actually reduce) water absorption, the foam cores are "sealed" in polyethylene. The method used to seal the polyethylene is an important factor. Many cheep covers simply have the polyethylene taped closed. Not good, as the tape will eventually fail. Better covers have the polyethylene heat sealed. While this is usually better than tape, if not done carefully and properly it can actually be worse. When the polyethylene is heat sealed, if it's over heated the seam will be excessively brittle and can crack, allowing water to enter the foam.

The most obvious cause of water absorption would be a small hole punctured through the cover. Even the smallest hole will allow a large amount of water to enter the foam over time.

The most common cause of water absorption is the "natural degradation of the polyethylene". Over time, chlorine, bromine, non-chlorine shock and ozone will break down the polyethylene causing it to become porous. The thicker the polyethylene (we use a 6 mil thick polyethylene), the longer it will resist this chemical degradation. At some point however, it will become porous enough to allow evaporation and steam to penetrate through it. It WILL NOT be porous enough to allow the steam that has condensed back into water to drip back out.

Since eliminating all the chemicals isn't possible (and still have a safe spa) the best preventative measure is a floating blanket. The blanket will greatly reduce both chemical off gassing, and more importantly evaporation. It's also important to completely remove the cover for a minimum of 20 minutes when shocking the water. This will allow the off-gassing chemicals to freely escape without penetrating into the cover itself.

[dolfan]

Just curious, it seems that covers have not changed really in 10-20 years, why not something new. I know it might be a bit more expensive going in but the vinyl clad material based solution seems poor for something that has to endure the elements.

Has any one considered a fiberglass/plastic shell material that would stand up to greater exterior issues like sun and moisture? The foam core could be put into the underside and be sealed in place or maybe even made replaceable? Seems like with the advances in boatbuilding materials this would have made it's way here too?

Maybe I just don't get it?

[Chas]

'cman' said, "From what i can tell from most posts i got here (thank you all kindly for taking the time to reply) is that there isnt much you can do. "

Sorry if we didn't post these - they are generally accepted as helpful in keep this from happening:

To keep a cover from getting heavy, you should do the following:

• Don't use a floating feeder for Bromine or Chlorine (Brilliance seems to be an exception)
• Leave the lid off and jets running for about ten minutes after adding Dichlor or Oxidizer.
• Especially do the above when administering a shock dose.
• Check the vapor barrier once a year - seal any holes or rewrap if needed.
• Watch for sagging - flip foam cores if noticed
• Handle cover carefully - a lift seems to help
• If you have an ozone system, be sure it is factory or has some sort of contact chamber
• Never use Trichlor
• Don't over Chlorinate
• Use the spa regularly - my customers who have vacation homes or little-used spas seem worse.

In the FAQ which Doc posted it mentions taping the seams is not good - that is for the manufacturer. If you find a seam has opened up, or the cat or dog did some damage or whatever, heavy-duty packing tape can seal up a seam well enough to continue using the cover. Be sure you understand - this is the vapor barrier I'm posting about, not the vinyl encasement.

Andrew - I would like your input on these items please...

[Trigger]

Just curious, it seems that covers have not changed really in 10-20 years, why not something new. I know it might be a bit more expensive going in but the vinyl clad material based solution seems poor for something that has to endure the elements.

Has any one considered a fiberglass/plastic shell material that would stand up to greater exterior issues like sun and moisture? The foam core could be put into the underside and be sealed in place or maybe even made replaceable? Seems like with the advances in boatbuilding materials this would have made it's way here too?

Maybe I just don't get it?

I agree. it doesn't seem to be a lot of improvements in cover technology.

given that a cover can greatly effect a tub's insulating abilities, I too would think we'd see some imrpovements along materials, and how it attatches and secures to the tub. (four coner straps? We could do better).

The only thing I've seen was a company with an inflatbale cover. While it was novel, it wasn't practacle and i think they went out of business.

They actaually stated that "air is a great insulator" in thier ads. (who does that remind you of? :lol: :lol: :lol: )

[Chas]

I only know of one company which has brought another design to market - they are expensive, and have their own set of issues.

[Tom]

The foam a cover's cores are made of is called Expanded Polystyrene... To prevent (actually reduce) water absorption, the foam cores are "sealed" in polyethylene. The method used to seal the polyethylene is an important factor. Many cheep covers simply have the polyethylene taped closed. Not good, as the tape will eventually fail. Better covers have the polyethylene heat sealed.

Possibly the polyethylene thickness may vary as well, with better covers having thicker poly?

dolfan wrote:

Just curious, it seems that covers have not changed really in 10-20 years, why not something new.

Arctic's CastCore covers are extruded polyurethane foam (with a steel frame somewhat as shown in another post) in an envelope of sealed Mylar, similar to the foil in a coffee bag. Don't know the thickness, but the samples I've seen seemed pretty tough and durable. The idea is that the Mylar is more resistant to tears and perforations than polyethylene and also remains more flexible over time, thus offering greater protection against water absorption. It may not be the final answer, but it does make sense. AFAIK we are the only company doing this.

And there are some interesting roll covers, sliding panel covers, powered lifters, and the like. So there are some innovations out there.

[Dr. Spa]

dolfan said - "Has any one considered a fiberglass/plastic shell material that would stand up to greater exterior issues like sun and moisture?"

Been done, failed MISERABLY. The problem was the size of each panel, and the MASSIVE expansion and contraction from being heated by the sun bearing down on them. The other problem is available sizes. For what you're thinking there would have to be a mold for every size of cover available, and there's THOUSANDS of different shaped spas.

The standard cover though has improved. Thicker vinyl with better UV inhibitors, thicker poly wrap, heavier density foam, better and more UV resistant thread.

It still comes down to what a consumer is willing to pay, cost effectiveness and value. We offer a top of the line "standard" insulating cover for around $320. Are you willing to pay 3 times as much for a cover that will last twice as long? If the average spa lasts 10 years (I made up this number), is there a point in making a cover that will last 20 years?

Excellent list Chas. The one thing I would add, or change, PVC tape (i.e. electrical tape) is the best there is for sealing, or resealing the polywrap.... Now I need to ask you, what issues have you experienced with be-lite? (feel free to PM me)

[dolfan]

Great input, when I get ready to replace mine I'll know that there are some new things to look for.

I realize that the formed/solid type would have some restrictions, but many top I've seen are just square or hex of a certain size so I would have expected the same thing. Either way no problem, not looking to break into the business with an new product :-)

[Dr. Spa]

Go for it

Over the last few years that have been a few with some new fangled state of the art, fancy dancy cover. They lasted about 1-1/2 years... till the warranty problems started pouring in.

As for sizes. Consider this, 7' to 8', 84" to 96". there's 144 different combinations, WITHOUT taking into consideration the various corner configurations. If you consider the possibility of 12 different radiuses, that makes 1728 different combinations. Add 12 different cut corner measurements, that makes for 3456 different combinations. That there be a lot of molds one needs.

Now I will admit, there was a company a few years ago that made, I believe, a molded ABS cover. They only offered sizes in 2" increments, with a few options for corners. They developed modular molds. Just snap various pieces together to make a complete mold. It worked ok, but was still limited in sizes (you pretty much had to order a cover that was a bit too large). The big problem was the expansion and contraction. The covers could shrink and contract up to two inches (every day). Hundreds if not thousands of hours of engineering and design changes and they could just never get them to the point where they wouldn't eventually crack.

[Trigger]

... That there be a lot of molds one needs....

"That there be" ??????

You, by chance didn't to happen to see the new Pirates movie recently, have you?

I heard it was rated "Rrrrrrrrrr"