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I Bought Arctic And...


jballard

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The cold weather sales pitch sounded great. All the equipment is in a 4" thick foam cabinet, heat from pumps actually heats the water etc.

What noticed was the insulation is very incomplete. There are large gaps all around all of the 8 access doors. The fact is an electric motor is more efficient at cooler temps. So they have to allow enough air gaps to keep them from overheating at the warmest expected temps. Ask to read the owners manual and see what it says about freeze protection (and how many ways they can avoid warrantying things). I believe the best insulating attribute of this spa is actually the cover (full marks for the cover!). The seats would be comfortable if the jets did not stick out, but they do. The jet placement is poor. Think about what part of your back you would like massaged. Kidney jets, rib cage jets, butt crack jets are uncomfortable and I wish I had at least bought a model with less jets. Another reason for this is noise. In order to use all the jets in the "shuttle seat" you need both pumps running. Pump one on low speed is not too bad; pump 2 (I found out later) has only high speed and it is loud. Also there are no foot jets in this seat. It is impossible to relax in the lounger with any type of massage action because these jets are all on pump 2. Sure, you can divert some of the flow elsewhere and you can adjust the flow on each jet but the roaring is too much. The air only mixes with the water on the pump 2 jets as well.

The controls are confusing and I had to keep checking the owners manual... (what the heck? how?).

Filtration and ozone only work 4 hours per day except of course when it is heating or you are running it. There is a big bypass valve at the bottom of the filter chamber so a lot of the water can bybass the filter. I believe 24/7 ozone/filtration makes much more sense. Some of my observations for what it's worth.

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[ May I ask which artic you purchased? Were going tomorrow evening to wet test a couple of artic spas. I did notice on our first trip that the pumps were loud. I thought it was due to the fact that the spa was right next to a wall. I will take some notes with me from your thread and play with all the seats and pumps. steve

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[ May I ask which artic you purchased? Were going tomorrow evening to wet test a couple of artic spas. I did notice on our first trip that the pumps were loud. I thought it was due to the fact that the spa was right next to a wall. I will take some notes with me from your thread and play with all the seats and pumps. steve

I bought the cub ss. Have you wet tested any others? I have a lot of other observations if you are interested in anything specific.

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The cold weather sales pitch sounded great. All the equipment is in a 4" thick foam cabinet, heat from pumps actually heats the water etc.

What noticed was the insulation is very incomplete. There are large gaps all around all of the 8 access doors. The fact is an electric motor is more efficient at cooler temps. So they have to allow enough air gaps to keep them from overheating at the warmest expected temps. Ask to read the owners manual and see what it says about freeze protection (and how many ways they can avoid warrantying things). I believe the best insulating attribute of this spa is actually the cover (full marks for the cover!). The seats would be comfortable if the jets did not stick out, but they do. The jet placement is poor. Think about what part of your back you would like massaged. Kidney jets, rib cage jets, butt crack jets are uncomfortable and I wish I had at least bought a model with less jets. Another reason for this is noise. In order to use all the jets in the "shuttle seat" you need both pumps running. Pump one on low speed is not too bad; pump 2 (I found out later) has only high speed and it is loud. Also there are no foot jets in this seat. It is impossible to relax in the lounger with any type of massage action because these jets are all on pump 2. Sure, you can divert some of the flow elsewhere and you can adjust the flow on each jet but the roaring is too much. The air only mixes with the water on the pump 2 jets as well.

The controls are confusing and I had to keep checking the owners manual... (what the heck? how?).

Filtration and ozone only work 4 hours per day except of course when it is heating or you are running it. There is a big bypass valve at the bottom of the filter chamber so a lot of the water can bybass the filter. I believe 24/7 ozone/filtration makes much more sense. Some of my observations for what it's worth.

Our records do not show a spa registered to "J Ballard". Mr. or Ms. Ballard, I'd appreciate your sending me a private message giving me the serial number of your spa so that I can review the quality assurance records on your unit.

For Steve (turbottt1), who is going shopping, I'll mention that

1. Your best bet is to search the spa forums for the brand(s) you're considering and read the range of comments. Many people have differing perspectives on the same brand and even on the same model.

2. According to our Quality Assurance team, the gap between door insulation and cabinet insulation on an Arctic Spa should not exceed 1/4" (this small gap is necessary to ensure that doors can be properly centered and works out to 1/8" per side). The seal between the door flange and the cabinet should be tight. Take a look when you're in the showroom. And if the salesperson tries to tell you that the doors are airtight, let me know. :) They're snug but not hermetically sealed.

2. It is important to "wet test" any tub you consider for purchase. It appears that 'jballard' did not take this important step or s/he would not make the comments s/he did about jets. Seems odd to purchase a tub and then complain that the jets stick out too far. Even sitting in a dry spa should tell you that kind of information.

3. You are welcome to a copy of our owners manual - it's free from our web site at www.arcticspas.ca.

4. Be sure you ask your dealer to show you the operating temperature on the motor plate. A motor is designed for specific operating conditions and ours are properly configured for the conditions inside the spa.

As for freeze protection, on p. 19 under "Smart Winter Mode" the owner manual says "This system prevents the water from freezing in the pump plumbing. If at any time the temperature goes below 68 degrees F, the system activates the winter mode every hour for the next 24 hours (even if the temperature returns above 68 F). In this mode the system will start all pumps for 1 minute to circulate warmer water in the plumbing. When the pumps are running because of this feature, the filter cycle icon on the display will blink."

On p. 23 there is a note about Winterizing your spa, where it says that "Freezing can severely damage your spa. Improper winterizing of your spa can void your warranty."

On p. 31, the warranty states that "damage cause by...ice in the spa" constitutes misuse and that such damage is not covered by warranty.

I doubt that you'll find much difference in other spa warranties as far as ice damage goes. But if there are differences, no doubt someone will post the info for us.

Happy Hot Tubbing

Tom

Arctic Spas

BTW, Steve, I have learned that a turbot is not only a fish but a particular type of robot.

http://www.solarbotics.com/products/index....1=true&frm=sbfi

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I have an arctic spa cub designer model myself and have no problems with it. We wet tested several brands and found arctic to have some of the most comfortable seats, and no problems with jets protruding. Also, the controls are very easy to use as compared to some others on the market. My 3 year old niece even knows how to use them and what each is for. As for pump noise, it doesn't seem much louder, if at all, to any other major brands. I'm not a dealer, nor do i try to persuade anyone to buy arctic over other brands (read any of my other posts . . . i do encourage everyone to make an educated decision based on personal needs, dealer service, etc). To each thier own i guess. Luckily though, Mr. Ballard, the Cub model is one of the best selling models and you should not have much of a problem getting rid of it (several friends and family are now seriously considering after hopping in mine). Hopefull you can find a spa that works for you. For anyone else looking, be sure to test before you buy no matter what brand, being Arctic, D1, Marquis, Coleman, etc as you will find major differences based on your own needs. Complaining without first testing would be like buying a Hummer because the name is good without a test drive, and complaining about the gas mileage and not being able to drive it properly because you've only owned a compact.

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My spa doesn't have shoulder and neck jets. NONE of the spas I tested had neck and shoulder jets that fit me. So, if want those areas massaged I hafta scootch down a bit. Big deal. Story of my life. I'm 6'4". I wonder what spas are preferred by professional football players.

The jets in my tub don't stick in my back. We got just the right number of jets in our Frontier Ultra. Not too many and not too little. I LOVE the deepest corner seat with all the pumps directed to that location at full throttle INCLUDING the butt crack jet! Woooo HOO! And as far as the pump motors being loud...how the heck can you hear the motors, anyway, over the frothing water? I can't. Therefore, I MUCH prefer to sit in the tub with NO pump running. NO water movement. Just me, immersion and gazing skyward.

As regards the guarantee and the warranty. We went over that with a fine tooth comb and my partner, who is the undisputed Queen of research, detail and subsequent negotiation, got the Arctic dealer to write an addenda "clarifying" the warranty.

Finally, there's only so far that a manufacturer can go with the insulation. If my spa wasn't freestanding on a brick patio and was, say, recessed into a deck or something, I'd consider coming up with a way to add detachable R10 polystyrene panels around the perimeter or something. Of course, I haven't even bought a water blanket thing, yet, either.

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My spa doesn't have shoulder and neck jets. NONE of the spas I tested had neck and shoulder jets that fit me. So, if want those areas massaged I hafta scootch down a bit. Big deal. Story of my life. I'm 6'4". I wonder what spas are preferred by professional football players.

The jets in my tub don't stick in my back. We got just the right number of jets in our Frontier Ultra. Not too many and not too little. I LOVE the deepest corner seat with all the pumps directed to that location at full throttle INCLUDING the butt crack jet! Woooo HOO! And as far as the pump motors being loud...how the heck can you hear the motors, anyway, over the frothing water? I can't. Therefore, I MUCH prefer to sit in the tub with NO pump running. NO water movement. Just me, immersion and gazing skyward.

As regards the guarantee and the warranty. We went over that with a fine tooth comb and my partner, who is the undisputed Queen of research, detail and subsequent negotiation, got the Arctic dealer to write an addenda "clarifying" the warranty.

Finally, there's only so far that a manufacturer can go with the insulation. If my spa wasn't freestanding on a brick patio and was, say, recessed into a deck or something, I'd consider coming up with a way to add detachable R10 polystyrene panels around the perimeter or something. Of course, I haven't even bought a water blanket thing, yet, either.

The ultra butt crack frontier jets are exlusive for artic? lol

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I would love to know if JBallard actually owns an Arctic Spa. Please send Tom a person at Arctic who can varify the serial number and place where you purchased your spa.

Thanks,

Michael

Why would you question my integrity? Did I promote anyone else? I also wonder how many real spa owners, as opposed to dealers, are active on this forum.

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If you've been perusing this forum for any length of time, surely you've read some posts that sure did sound like they were contributed by someone with an axe to grind. Tom might've jumped the gun just a little but I certainly can relate to what he thought he might have sensed.

>>jballard wrote: I also wonder how many real spa owners, as opposed to dealers, are active on this forum. <<

THANK YOU! I just wish EVERYbody would take a few moments to put some stuff in their profile to let the rest of us know what encourages them to pay attention to this particular forum. Most of y'all are "just a screenname". Instead of leaning towards warring it would seem to me that we could All benefit from honestly sharing our tubbing experiences with each other.

Who knew that when I set out to (finally) get a hot tub that it would require (for me and my partner) the level of research that we put into it. Now, that I've got the thing, I'm eager to learn more about it/them and share my input, too.

I think some of us Arctic owners want to get discussions on the brand we selected into the mix because we kinda think we discovered a sorta well kept secret. So far, I have no reason to believe otherwise. Obviously most satisfied tub owners would vouch for their's being the best! Heck! I even work with a guy who has his SECOND ThermoSpas tub (he traded the first one back to TS for an upgrade to a bigger jettier one). But I'm also curious about other folks' experiences because if I ever have to decide on another spa, I'll take all the info I can get.

I'm sitting here thinking that it'd be cool to get some sort of a regional "tub crawl" going. You know. Travel around to soaks in other folks' tubs. Compare theirs' to your's. Anyway...

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No suits allowed in my tub sorry.

I work in a strip bar, could bring a few of the girls to your tub, don't think they'd mind the "no suits" rule too much, haha.

And as for questioning the integrity of jballard (did i get the name correct?) it's probably due to the fact in a post Arctic spa said they have no record of him on file. I'm not questioning integrity, just stating an earlier post. I'm happy with my arctic, as are many others on here, but i'm sure there are some who don't like thiers for whatever reason, just as i bought an arctic because i didn't like other brands for various reasons, it's personal preference and opinion, and good to see people expressing it on here, good and bad. So thank you for your input as well jballard.

On a final note, asking who is a dealer vs real tub owners, i'm not a dealer, just a guy who owns a tub, comes on here to learn a few tricks from those who have had tubs for years, and to give my input based on my personal experiences as well to hopefully help somebody else out as i've been helped. I'm pretty sure Smilin is just another happy owner as i am and not a dealer either (yeah, there are dealers on here, and most don't push thier brand of tub or bash others, but give sincere advice, thanks to them as well).

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I work in a strip bar, could bring a few of the girls to your tub, don't think they'd mind the "no suits" rule too much, haha.

I don't normaly allow strippers in my tub but for you Kahuna I will make an exception.

As for who I am, I am an owner, and I work for a mechanical contractor in purchasing and managing there equipment division, and an independent service guy not affieliated with any brand, yet. Me and my brother do a business on the side and as it says on our card, we can fix anything but a broken heart. A tad busier than I like but the money is good.

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I can't imagine WANTING to wear a suit to soak but there are some...many of whom, no doubt, have never tried in naked. Those of us in the know ;-) say "Try it. You'll kick yourself for not having done it all those years earlier."

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I can't imagine WANTING to wear a suit to soak but there are some...many of whom, no doubt, have never tried in naked. Those of us in the know ;-) say "Try it. You'll kick yourself for not having done it all those years earlier."

Going in naked is great. I like when the jet hits my butt n' nutz, it tickles my fancy whoooo hoooo

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I concur. Tom, why would you question jballard's integrity?

I do not question the integrity of the person making the post. (I do question the integrity of the people making the last several posts.... :rolleyes: ...but thanks for some grins to lighten my Friday afternoon!)

However I do have some doubts about the accuracy of the information in the jballard's original post. I'll go over the clues if anyone really wants, it might be fun.

BTW, I have not yet received a private mail from jballard with the serial number of his spa....and I am not surprised.

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Now we know why spas depreciate rather quickly the first year.

Why go in with clothes. I find it very odd to go into a tub with clothes for 2 good reasons 1) laundry detergent=bubbles 2) I cant have easy access to have the master blaster my butt n' nut. :wub: If depreciation were an issue it would render un-valuable after the 1st day.

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Hello OK tom fill us in on the clues. We did get out wed. evening to form our own opinion. I would like to compare our notes with yours. steve

The original post in this thread IMHO looked like a typical "brand bash". These used to be common a year or two ago on all the forums, though they have died down lately. In these posts, someone would pretend to be a customer pointing out the deficits of a brand he had supposedly purchased. Putting the best spin on it, such a post was perhaps a way of venting frustration or sowing a little doubt in prospective buyers' minds rather than an attempt to run down a competitor.

NOT saying that this is the case here, although I have my own opinion. NOT saying that jballard is anything other than what he claims to be. Just wanting to point out the ways in which the post "looks like a duck"*.

I had fun playing detective on my coffee break. Here's the post, with numbers for reference.

(1) What noticed was the insulation is very incomplete. There are large gaps all around all of the 8 access doors. (2) The fact is an electric motor is more efficient at cooler temps. So they have to allow enough air gaps to keep them from overheating at the warmest expected temps. (3)Ask to read the owners manual and see what it says about freeze protection (and how many ways they can avoid warrantying things). I believe the best insulating attribute of this spa is actually the cover (full marks for the cover!). (4) The seats would be comfortable if the jets did not stick out, but they do. The jet placement is poor. Think about what part of your back you would like massaged. Kidney jets, rib cage jets, butt crack jets are uncomfortable and I wish I had at least bought a model with less jets. (5) Another reason for this is noise. In order to use all the jets in the "shuttle seat" you need both pumps running. Pump one on low speed is not too bad; pump 2 (I found out later) has only high speed and it is loud. (6) Also there are no foot jets in this seat. (7) It is impossible to relax in the lounger with any type of massage action because these jets are all on pump 2. Sure, you can divert some of the flow elsewhere and you can adjust the flow on each jet but the roaring is too much. The air only mixes with the water on the pump 2 jets as well.

(8) The controls are confusing and I had to keep checking the owners manual... (what the heck? how?).

(9) Filtration and ozone only work 4 hours per day except of course when it is heating or you are running it. There is a big bypass valve at the bottom of the filter chamber so a lot of the water can bybass the filter. I believe 24/7 ozone/filtration makes much more sense. (10) Some of my observations for what it’s worth.

Step by step

1. “Large gaps” – Exaggeration is typical of “brand-bash” posts.

2. An electric motor is engineered for a specific operating temperature; ours are properly configured for our spas. (For warm climates where overheating could occur, we don’t need to rely on sloppy construction--we offer louvred doors!).

3. Already covered in a previous post. But thanks for recognizing the quality of our cover.

4. The poster apparently wants us to believe that, even though it has all these flaws, he still purchased the spa. Hmm.

5. Noise is a complaint lodged against various brands; you’ll have to judge for yourself.

6. Seems odd that someone would buy a spa without foot jets in a particular seat then complain that the seat has no foot jets.

7. As most readers realize, loungers feel different to different people. Evidently, jballard didn’t realize the lounger was uncomfortable until after he bought the spa. It seems that he didn’t wet test, or he wet tested and still went ahead and bought a spa with an uncomfortable lounger. Either way, what do you think of this buying decision? See number 4.

8. Sorry he found the controls confusing. See numbers 4 and 7.

9. Again, he only decided this after he bought the spa? Is it possible that he represents a brand that has 24/7 filtration and fewer jets?

10. The reader can decide the worth of the observations.

Hope you enjoyed the analysis, for what it's worth in its turn.

For jballard--Now's the time to send me your spa serial number! <_<

Steve, looking forward to hearing the results of your own research!

*Don't know how common the espression is. "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

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This is either a very unhappy customer or someone with an ax to grind. Posting the serial number would certainly go a long way toward legitimizing his post.

BTW, items 4, 7 and 8 are perfect examples of why someone should wet test rather than complaining after the fact. Items 6 and 9 are all about researching what you're getting so you have some understanding going in.

JBallard, send Tom the serial number or delete your post.

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