Ecosmarte Oxidizer

[Brulan1]

Well stop trying to sell it to us, we're not shopping.

What is the best R-value a spa can have?

[Brulan1]

What is the best R-value a spa can have?

WHAT IS THE ABSOLUTE BEST R-FACTOR ANY SPA CAN HAVE NOT INCLUDING THE COVER?

[Roger]

WHAT IS THE ABSOLUTE BEST R-FACTOR ANY SPA CAN HAVE NOT INCLUDING THE COVER?

Actualy I think during filtration the R-Factor can exceed the need to create absorbsion into the water on some tubs. But only during filtration and in outside ambients above a certain point as long as there is no outside air infiltration. So by trying to reduce heat loss during non filtration times you are doing alot because that is the balance or 20 hours of every day. And this is acomplished by adding insulation to the vessel.

Your probably not going to get an answer because it varys on different parts of the tubs with high R-Factors. Do you need a for instance or can you figure out why it varys?

[Brulan1]

Actualy I think during filtration the R-Factor can exceed the need to create absorbsion into the water on some tubs. But only during filtration and in outside ambients above a certain point as long as there is no outside air infiltration. So by trying to reduce heat loss during non filtration times you are doing alot because that is the balance or 20 hours of every day. And this is acomplished by adding insulation to the vessel.

Your probably not going to get an answer because it varys on different parts of the tubs with high R-Factors. Do you need a for instance or can you figure out why it varys?

I understand that it varies, I just want to know generally a means of a tub with the highest R-value. Just an average on each tub and the tub with the highest average.

[Sunbuilt Pools]

I am an ecosmarte dealer. I have been for about a year and have yet to get a single complaint about the system. The water in my pools has been very clear and clean with no odor in my installations. Ecosmarte has two basic settings, one is to ionize copper and the other is to oxidize using oxygen. The system leaves a copper residual to be kept between .4 and .7 ppm, wellunder drinking water acceptable range. The system then oxidizes using titanium plates and a low charge to create theoretical atomic oxygen and oxygen creating 20-80 grams per minute of oxygen radicals (varies based on flow rate). This sytem requires the customer to test their water to ensure the pH, copper and water hardness are at the right levels so a dealer who tries to sell this as a turn on and forget it system is not properly educating their client. However, once installed, the system carries a 5 year component repair or replacement warranty.

There certainly is marketing involved. However to date, the pools are clean, the water tests safe for swimmers and there is no chlorine, no salt, no cyanuric acid and the systems are holding up. I am not a chemist so I can't explain the process in scientific detail. I have read the science behind the system and would be happy to discuss with anyone who is looking for a chlorine alternative.

[Brulan1]

I am an ecosmarte dealer. I have been for about a year and have yet to get a single complaint about the system. The water in my pools has been very clear and clean with no odor in my installations. Ecosmarte has two basic settings, one is to ionize copper and the other is to oxidize using oxygen. The system leaves a copper residual to be kept between .4 and .7 ppm, wellunder drinking water acceptable range. The system then oxidizes using titanium plates and a low charge to create theoretical atomic oxygen and oxygen creating 20-80 grams per minute of oxygen radicals (varies based on flow rate). This sytem requires the customer to test their water to ensure the pH, copper and water hardness are at the right levels so a dealer who tries to sell this as a turn on and forget it system is not properly educating their client. However, once installed, the system carries a 5 year component repair or replacement warranty.

There certainly is marketing involved. However to date, the pools are clean, the water tests safe for swimmers and there is no chlorine, no salt, no cyanuric acid and the systems are holding up. I am not a chemist so I can't explain the process in scientific detail. I have read the science behind the system and would be happy to discuss with anyone who is looking for a chlorine alternative.

They work magnificently in all of the tubs we sell. Initially the calcium is 400ppm and now they have something carbon dioxcide for a ph buffer. Like I said, set it and forget it. Customers usually are shocked when I say that and at that point I lay out the details

[Roger]

theoretical atomic oxygen and oxygen creating 20-80 grams per minute of oxygen radicals

Whenever someone uses the word theoretical I steer clear.

[Canadian Kahuna]

The system then oxidizes using titanium plates and a low charge to create theoretical atomic oxygen and oxygen creating 20-80 grams per minute of oxygen radicals (varies based on flow rate).

I agree on the theoretical part with Roger. Theoretically, there are a lot of things that should work, and don't, or shouldn't work and do. Theoretically, bees shouldn't have been able to fly, up until more studies were done disproving this theory.

[Roger]

I agree on the theoretical part with Roger. Theoretically, there are a lot of things that should work, and don't, or shouldn't work and do. Theoretically, bees shouldn't have been able to fly, up until more studies were done disproving this theory.

Theoreticly I was spose to be a millionaire by now but it hasn't worked out!

[tony]

Still sounds like a typical ion system. Still doesn't mean you have sanitized water. It may be clear, but may not be completely safe. Ion systems work great when coupled with a low dose dichlor routine.

[Brulan1]

Still sounds like a typical ion system. Still doesn't mean you have sanitized water. It may be clear, but may not be completely safe. Ion systems work great when coupled with a low dose dichlor routine.

As long as my customers stay happy and send more and more testimonials I cannot knock the system. I have been spectical of this system for 1 1/2yrs before using it on our tubs and I cannot thank ecosmarte enough. Seriously thankyou

As long as my customers stay happy and send more and more testimonials I cannot knock the system. I have been spectical of this system for 1 1/2yrs before using it on our tubs and I cannot thank ecosmarte enough. Seriously thankyou

I cannot wait to use the carbon dioxide ph buffer with them now

[Roger]

I cannot wait to use the carbon dioxide ph buffer with them now

If there is good mark ups in the products you choose to sell to your customers then that is how a good business stays in business. Alone with people to tell those customers why they should purchase these products with the good markups....I mean good results.

[Amanda]

I remember somebody long ago with almost the identical posts in this forum, stuck on the same idea. I own a TP style tub, but don't say it's "the best", not until it can be proven undebateably and undeniably. Anyways, just sounds like somebody from the start of this forum, some may remember.

Oh yes... I remember.

[Brulan1]

Less maintanance is great like amanda says with the composite wood. Also, we were selling them with the tub at cost for the 1st 50 people to creat urgency to buy and we also advertised it. WOW what a wonderful gift. Anyways we already have orders of people wanting the ph buffer. This is great

[Amanda]

ok, a little lengthy but may be worth it

to answer your question Brulan... TP= thermal pain(i believe)

A "This is the only way" approach theoretically (oops! I said it!) is a great way to "sell" and I'm sure that many people have gottenresults from this in the past and may in the future... but, there really is another way that encourages longer term relationships and may not come across as "I'm right/your wrong". I've found that (basically in any area of life) when you realize you have much to learn and can be ok with that... you will learn much more than you could ever imagine and will be warmly welcomed into any new venue. Lets face it, when someone askes you about something and they are genuinely interested in the answer instead of calculating how to turn your information against you or prove their own point... well, it just simply works out better (in my opinion).

For everyone especially the shoppers:

Many people think "salesman" is a bad word. It has made me (as a consumer) be very wary when going into the "sales zone/ war zone" when looking for something I'm interested in and it has changed the way people shop. This forum wouldn't exist at all if there wasn't a TON of people seeking information through means of their own research efforts. Most people have some knowledge prior to even coming in contact with the salesman. And if they don't, they should! (as a salesperson) I encourage self education. Information will be your power... get as much as you can from many different sources!!!!

And to bring it all back to the topic posted (sorry for the sidestep)-

I would be very causious (sp?) with a "set it and forget it" approach. This may work well for Ron Popeil and his infomercials at 3 AM, but the spa industry is entirely different (or I'd like to think it is). Maintenance free is what all of us want so there are people that will say that to make you think your need will be met. Water cuts channels through mountains! It's an extremely powerful thing!!! Spas are peoples attempt to try to harness waters strength for the use of fun and therapy. Hot water is basically a petre dish with an overdrive system (the "hot" part doubles bacteria very quickly). There's GOT to be SOME kind of monitoring! There are all kinds of sanitizers out there... traditional chemicals like chlorine or bromine, ozone systems, ionizers, salt systems, hydrogen peroxides (a little old school), exo-this, baqua-that, nature-this, enzyme-that and a host of ways people have tryed to keep the water as maintenance free and clean as possible with the least amount of effort. To the best of my knowledge- there IS NO completely free sytem that you don't have to do ANYTHING to keep the water good for a period of time. If there is a magic pill.... everyone would have it no matter what the cost.

The most imoportant thing is to have someone go over with you EXACTLY what needs to be done with whatever system you are learning about. It may fit in with you lifestyle or it may not. Best of luck!

[Brulan1]

ok, a little lengthy but may be worth it

to answer your question Brulan... TP= thermal pain(i believe)

A "This is the only way" approach theoretically (oops! I said it!) is a great way to "sell" and I'm sure that many people have gottenresults from this in the past and may in the future... but, there really is another way that encourages longer term relationships and may not come across as "I'm right/your wrong". I've found that (basically in any area of life) when you realize you have much to learn and can be ok with that... you will learn much more than you could ever imagine and will be warmly welcomed into any new venue. Lets face it, when someone askes you about something and they are genuinely interested in the answer instead of calculating how to turn your information against you or prove their own point... well, it just simply works out better (in my opinion).

For everyone especially the shoppers:

Many people think "salesman" is a bad word. It has made me (as a consumer) be very wary when going into the "sales zone/ war zone" when looking for something I'm interested in and it has changed the way people shop. This forum wouldn't exist at all if there wasn't a TON of people seeking information through means of their own research efforts. Most people have some knowledge prior to even coming in contact with the salesman. And if they don't, they should! (as a salesperson) I encourage self education. Information will be your power... get as much as you can from many different sources!!!!

And to bring it all back to the topic posted (sorry for the sidestep)-

I would be very causious (sp?) with a "set it and forget it" approach. This may work well for Ron Popeil and his infomercials at 3 AM, but the spa industry is entirely different (or I'd like to think it is). Maintenance free is what all of us want so there are people that will say that to make you think your need will be met. Water cuts channels through mountains! It's an extremely powerful thing!!! Spas are peoples attempt to try to harness waters strength for the use of fun and therapy. Hot water is basically a petre dish with an overdrive system (the "hot" part doubles bacteria very quickly). There's GOT to be SOME kind of monitoring! There are all kinds of sanitizers out there... traditional chemicals like chlorine or bromine, ozone systems, ionizers, salt systems, hydrogen peroxides (a little old school), exo-this, baqua-that, nature-this, enzyme-that and a host of ways people have tryed to keep the water as maintenance free and clean as possible with the least amount of effort. To the best of my knowledge- there IS NO completely free sytem that you don't have to do ANYTHING to keep the water good for a period of time. If there is a magic pill.... everyone would have it no matter what the cost.

The most imoportant thing is to have someone go over with you EXACTLY what needs to be done with whatever system you are learning about. It may fit in with you lifestyle or it may not. Best of luck!

Thankyou for the insight which is highly appreciated. Having 6 people in a 400 gallon spa is like having 10000 people in a 16x32 21,000 gallon pool because of the hot water and bacteria that can grow transgress easier. With Ecosmarte having that knowledge, they came through with something to accomidate the people in a number of ways. I am still a little skeptical because how can I technically know if it really does what it claims. Your the best Amanda. thanks

[Amanda]

Thanx Brulan.

So this topic of ecosmarte oxidizer/set it and forget it intrigues me.

I'm glad that you are one who lays out the datails for folks when they are suprised (as I am) about the "set it and forget it statement". Since ecosmarte has come through with something to accomodate people in a number of ways with the knowledge that bacteria can run rampant in a hot tub- it has gotten my attention as I'm sure it has for many readers.

How exactly does this system work and what does a spa owner have to do each day, week, month, year. You seem to be familiar with the system. This forum is very popular for folks looking for a spa and it would be very helpful to have the details laid out regarding the number of ways that this system can help.

Thanks in advance for your help and knowledge!

[Brulan1]

Thanx Brulan.

So this topic of ecosmarte oxidizer/set it and forget it intrigues me.

I'm glad that you are one who lays out the datails for folks when they are suprised (as I am) about the "set it and forget it statement". Since ecosmarte has come through with something to accomodate people in a number of ways with the knowledge that bacteria can run rampant in a hot tub- it has gotten my attention as I'm sure it has for many readers.

How exactly does this system work and what does a spa owner have to do each day, week, month, year. You seem to be familiar with the system. This forum is very popular for folks looking for a spa and it would be very helpful to have the details laid out regarding the number of ways that this system can help.

Thanks in advance for your help and knowledge!

For Coleman spas as follows:

Turn on all jets at high speed with air valves closed. Pour 1/4 cup of liquid bleach directly into the spa water because of the reminent water left over from each tub being tested from the factory. Alow spa to run at high speed for at least 30 minutes. This will kill off any lingering bacteria from the factory testing.

Turn on all jets at high speed with air valves closed. Add 2 lbs of Calcium or liquid form accordingly. Allow spa to run at high speed for at least 30 minutes. Smaller spas will require less Calcium. One lb. normally works well.

Leave spa in standard mode until temperature reaches 100 degrees. When spa temperature is at least 80 degrees, check alka. and Ph unless you have the new carbondioxide ph buffer!! If alka. is low, add baking soda or sodium bicarbonate or alkalinity increase of 3 or 4 tbspns full at a time untill Alka is atleast 60 ppm. Allow spa to run at high speed for at least 15 minutes between each test.

If PH is above 7.1, add PH minus 2 teaspoons at a time until PH is 6.9-7.1. Allow spa to run at high speed for at least 15 minutes between each test.

Switch the "Ionize" to "High" position.

Allow it to run on "High" fore 3 hours during ONE filter cycle.

Auto filter cycles are factory set on a coleman to run from 2-5am and 2-5pm.

After the 3 hour cycle, turn the "Ionize" to "Oxidizer". Leave on High

Red dots will show on the Eco smarte screen whenever the unit is working. The "Oxidizer" will only work during filter cycles. If you use the spa during a filter cycle, the "oxidizer" will shut off.

Test for copper. The copper level should be between .3 and .7. Test for PH. The PH level should be between 6.9-7.1.

Under normal use, your spa water will remain clear. If the water becomes cloudy due to over loading with bodies, you may add one or two oz. of Activate/Release(monopersulphate) your non chlorine shock.

This is how you get the system started. after you get through this small hurdle the water doesn';t have to be changed for 4-6months.

What is needed? 2 lbs calcium initally and ph up and down unless carbon dioxcide is being used. Over use of tub=1-2 oz activate at most once every two weeks

[Amanda]

For Coleman spas as follows:

Turn on all jets at high speed with air valves closed. Pour 1/4 cup of liquid bleach directly into the spa water because of the reminent water left over from each tub being tested from the factory. Alow spa to run at high speed for at least 30 minutes. This will kill off any lingering bacteria from the factory testing.

Turn on all jets at high speed with air valves closed. Add 2 lbs of Calcium or liquid form accordingly. Allow spa to run at high speed for at least 30 minutes. Smaller spas will require less Calcium. One lb. normally works well.

Leave spa in standard mode until temperature reaches 100 degrees. When spa temperature is at least 80 degrees, check alka. and Ph unless you have the new carbondioxide ph buffer!! If alka. is low, add baking soda or sodium bicarbonate or alkalinity increase of 3 or 4 tbspns full at a time untill Alka is atleast 60 ppm. Allow spa to run at high speed for at least 15 minutes between each test.

If PH is above 7.1, add PH minus 2 teaspoons at a time until PH is 6.9-7.1. Allow spa to run at high speed for at least 15 minutes between each test.

Switch the "Ionize" to "High" position.

Allow it to run on "High" fore 3 hours during ONE filter cycle.

Auto filter cycles are factory set on a coleman to run from 2-5am and 2-5pm.

After the 3 hour cycle, turn the "Ionize" to "Oxidizer". Leave on High

Red dots will show on the Eco smarte screen whenever the unit is working. The "Oxidizer" will only work during filter cycles. If you use the spa during a filter cycle, the "oxidizer" will shut off.

Test for copper. The copper level should be between .3 and .7. Test for PH. The PH level should be between 6.9-7.1.

Under normal use, your spa water will remain clear. If the water becomes cloudy due to over loading with bodies, you may add one or two oz. of Activate/Release(monopersulphate) your non chlorine shock.

This is how you get the system started. after you get through this small hurdle the water doesn';t have to be changed for 4-6months.

What is needed? 2 lbs calcium initally and ph up and down unless carbon dioxcide is being used. Over use of tub=1-2 oz activate at most once every two weeks

It sounds similar to many other systems that are available. I would think that you would want to change your setting according to how you use your spa. So if your usage is sporatic or you use your tub a lot... you would have to adjust controls, and more stuff more regularly. Am I to understand this correctly? What happens if the copper becomes to high in the water? What kind of warranty is available for this item?

[Brulan1]

It sounds similar to many other systems that are available. I would think that you would want to change your setting according to how you use your spa. So if your usage is sporatic or you use your tub a lot... you would have to adjust controls, and more stuff more regularly. Am I to understand this correctly? What happens if the copper becomes to high in the water? What kind of warranty is available for this item?

5 yr like mech. and electrical. If the copper isn't shut off ionize position than you can turn blue. My 1st customer that purchased it a while back with a spa left the setting on Ionize and didn't switch to oxidize and turned blue. Good thing he had a good sense of humor. Since he learned to switch it to oxidize he has never been as happy with such a unit. If you use the tub alot which is alot of people every day a nonchlorine shock is reccommended if cloudy. You only have to set the unit once initially than leave it alone.

[Amanda]

5 yr like mech. and electrical. If the copper isn't shut off ionize position than you can turn blue. My 1st customer that purchased it a while back with a spa left the setting on Ionize and didn't switch to oxidize and turned blue. Good thing he had a good sense of humor. Since he learned to switch it to oxidize he has never been as happy with such a unit. If you use the tub alot which is alot of people every day a nonchlorine shock is reccommended if cloudy. You only have to set the unit once initially than leave it alone.

He TURNED BLUE?!?!?! That can't be good! That would REALLY scare me. A spa sanitizing system that (if not operated correctly) turns you into Papa Smurf? Wow! Are there any residual health issues associated with that? I checked out the website you directed me to and it said these systems have been available on pools since 1993... how long have they been available for spas?

[Brulan1]

He TURNED BLUE?!?!?! That can't be good! That would REALLY scare me. A spa sanitizing system that (if not operated correctly) turns you into Papa Smurf? Wow! Are there any residual health issues associated with that? I checked out the website you directed me to and it said these systems have been available on pools since 1993... how long have they been available for spas?

Less than a year. We have been using them with pools for years. Electronators have existed since mid 70's

[Amanda]

Less than a year. We have been using them with pools for years. Electronators have existed since mid 70's

Has the longterm health effects been tested if the system isn't run properly? Do the pool systems have a history of the "Papa Smurf" effect if not operated correctly? Operator error is something that will inevitably happen upon occasion.

[Brulan1]

Has the longterm health effects been tested if the system isn't run properly? Do the pool systems have a history of the "Papa Smurf" effect if not operated correctly? Operator error is something that will inevitably happen upon occasion.

Long term effects were tested in pools and no papa smurf syndrome, in spas long term isn't here yet but will be soon enough. When the results come in as passing health hazzards than the unit will cost more and you have to figure inflation. If you jump abroad now you can lock in with just inflation and always pay less.

[Amanda]

Long term effects were tested in pools and no papa smurf syndrome, in spas long term isn't here yet but will be soon enough. When the results come in as passing health hazzards than the unit will cost more and you have to figure inflation. If you jump abroad now you can lock in with just inflation and always pay less.

Am I to understand that there aren't valid tests of safety for this particular system rated for spa use specifically and that is why they are priced less for now? Are you suggesting that (if I were looking for a spa) that I would want to purchase this system now (jump on the good deal band-wagon) because the price hasn't been increased yet due to not being able to provide the health and safety results for the sanitation system? I'd like to think I have missunderstood you. I'd love some clarification on this.