Ecosmarte Oxidizer

[Brulan1]

We put copper oxidizers called ecosmarte in our coleman spas as an option upgrade and has been a hit. My question is if anyone here has one in there spa or uses one in the pool and if these units break down. So far so good to this point. Its so simple to install in our colemans because of the dead air space, but if it breaks down later on down the road, we already sold 145 within the last six months. Any input into this matter would be highly appreciated thanks!

[Roger]

We put copper oxidizers called ecosmarte in our coleman spas as an option upgrade and has been a hit. My question is if anyone here has one in there spa or uses one in the pool and if these units break down. So far so good to this point. Its so simple to install in our colemans because of the dead air space, but if it breaks down later on down the road, we already sold 145 within the last six months. Any input into this matter would be highly appreciated thanks!

Just like the rest of the helpfull mineral or O3 suplements to a good chlorine or bromine sanitation regiment these products no matter who makes them can be a good addition to help inbetween uses. Depending on the amount of use and the cleanliness of the bathers these products should be only used as a supplement to the proper amount of sanitizer after use level.

Oh and lets hope the air space isn't dead. A good thermopane style spa will have a very live air space that is used to help create a warm air barrier between the water vessel and the outdoors. As this style of insulation has a substantialy lower R-Factor than say a fully foamed insulated tub this air space in combination with the heat generated from the operation of the pump and it's electric motor will help to reduce heat loss. Now one thing to considor in very cold climates is to make sure you adjust your pump motor run times as 4 hours a day of filtration (which is all that's required) leaves 20 hours a day that no heat is being created to help create the insulation. Some folks here in Northern Minnesota up there filtration times to 24 hours a day when the weather reaches well below 0 But I only up mine to 12 hours a day, during the very coldest spells and 8 from Dec. untill Mar.

It is also very important on this type of insulation skeem to maintain a good weather seal between the outdoors and the live air space as wind can be the killer to this type of insulation.

[Brulan1]

Just like the rest of the helpfull mineral or O3 suplements to a good chlorine or bromine sanitation regiment these products no matter who makes them can be a good addition to help inbetween uses. Depending on the amount of use and the cleanliness of the bathers these products should be only used as a supplement to the proper amount of sanitizer after use level.

Oh and lets hope the air space isn't dead. A good thermopane style spa will have a very live air space that is used to help create a warm air barrier between the water vessel and the outdoors. As this style of insulation has a substantialy lower R-Factor than say a fully foamed insulated tub this air space in combination with the heat generated from the operation of the pump and it's electric motor will help to reduce heat loss. Now one thing to considor in very cold climates is to make sure you adjust your pump motor run times as 4 hours a day of filtration (which is all that's required) leaves 20 hours a day that no heat is being created to help create the insulation. Some folks here in Northern Minnesota up there filtration times to 24 hours a day when the weather reaches well below 0 But I only up mine to 12 hours a day, during the very coldest spells and 8 from Dec. untill Mar.

It is also very important on this type of insulation skeem to maintain a good weather seal between the outdoors and the live air space as wind can be the killer to this type of insulation.

I understand the insulation and pump mechanics, I am wondering if anyone has used ecosmarte as well. If someone has great, because than I can expect the worst and hope for the best. Even if they do start failing, 90percent of my service calls have gone down since the let go of full foam. We have more time now for more pool and spa openings and closings. I have 7 service trucks right now and do more openings, closings, covers than ever, so I am not going to lose sleep over the Ecosmarte's because people say they love them. I tell them to add a monopersulphate which is a non-chlorine shock when alot of people use it in a short amount of time. Roger, what is R-Factor?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Even if they do start failing, 90percent of my service calls have gone down since the let go of full foam.

LOL. We have a live one.

[Brulan1]

LOL. We have a live one.

I love this forum. I learn my sales techniques, and troubleshooting from you guys. I am just hoping to get some input on the latest state of the art technology from someone else that is going through the same experience I am now. All comments are appreciated thankyou

[mjs]

Can someone explain just WHAT this system is, and HOW it works (without sales BS, preferrably)??

I found and looked over the ecosmarte website, and frankly, as a chemist and engineer, I'm extremely skeptical.

If someone can 'splain this system, I'm listening. Otherwise, I'll remain a skeptic.

[Brulan1]

Can someone explain just WHAT this system is, and HOW it works (without sales BS, preferrably)??

I found and looked over the ecosmarte website, and frankly, as a chemist and engineer, I'm extremely skeptical.

If someone can 'splain this system, I'm listening. Otherwise, I'll remain a skeptic.

chemist engineers do research like I did. I am looking for someone that did the research already. Too much skepticism leaves a little ignorance to the subject at matter. www.ecosmarte.com will give you leads.

[tony]

Can someone explain just WHAT this system is, and HOW it works (without sales BS, preferrably)??

I found and looked over the ecosmarte website, and frankly, as a chemist and engineer, I'm extremely skeptical.

If someone can 'splain this system, I'm listening. Otherwise, I'll remain a skeptic.

Amazing what marketing will try to do. That system doesn't look a whole lot different than any ionization system which still needs a sanitizer to work. There isn't a statement made on that website that I would put an ounce of faith in and the lack of information supports that. A site full of opinions and testimonials which aren't worth the ink they're printed with. And the cost? They say there is a sucker born every minute.

I'm with you mjs.

[Brulan1]

Amazing what marketing will try to do. That system doesn't look a whole lot different than any ionization system which still needs a sanitizer to work. There isn't a statement made on that website that I would put an ounce of faith in and the lack of information supports that. A site full of opinions and testimonials which aren't worth the ink they're printed with. And the cost? They say there is a sucker born every minute.

I'm with you mjs.

also we started to use the carbondioxide ph buffer and it works fantastically. Not only do my customers happy with not adding any chemicals but now they are excited not to mess with the ph. The only problem we had was the 1st guy 7months ago actually turned blue because he forgot to swich it to Ionize. I hope that it doesn't break down in 4 or 5 years. EVeryone will eventually use a system like this because it makes so much sense.

[mjs]

The reason I asked, brulan1, is that there was a distinc LACK of technical information on the company's webpage.

What leads?????

If this were a system I was reviewing for the marine industry, I'd ask the company to provide more info - or be shut out!

[Brulan1]

The reason I asked, brulan1, is that there was a distinc LACK of technical information on the company's webpage.

What leads?????

If this were a system I was reviewing for the marine industry, I'd ask the company to provide more info - or be shut out!

If you want simple answers to your complex problems than look into it more, that all

[mjs]

Naw; I merely asking a legitimate question to what appears a sales posting.

I guess I got my answer.....

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Naw; I merely asking a legitimate question to what appears a sales posting.

I guess I got my answer.....

I concur.

[Roger]

Roger, what is R-Factor?

As you learn Blulan the term R-Factor can be used alot to (if your in sales) help during your presentation to sell a spa) or if your in service it will help your service guys to gain your customers confidence in there ability. Be carefull how you use it on a tub like a coleman or any tub with a similar insulation skeem because it is easy to decieve someone into thinking the R-Factor on that type of spa is so high it actualy adds heat to the water. Make sure you mention "during filtration" during your presentation because if someone is half way smart they will figure it out and not be real happy with your truthfullness.

R-Factor=thermal resistance factor.....determines the insulating value of a product. Air, as in dead air space has the worst R-factor in the world, I think there may be some gasses that have a worse R-Factor but air has none. Heated air is different, but remove the heat source and????? Common glass double pain windows range from 5-10. fully insulated walls, 10-20. 1 inch foam board 3-6 depending on density. 2 inch foam 6-12 and there are several other materials that can have a higher r-factor but be thinner and combined with other materials to create reflective values and so on.

Dissclaimer: Do not quote me on the r-values of the products I listed, these were for comparision purposes.

[Brulan1]

As you learn Blulan the term R-Factor can be used alot to (if your in sales) help during your presentation to sell a spa) or if your in service it will help your service guys to gain your customers confidence in there ability. Be carefull how you use it on a tub like a coleman or any tub with a similar insulation skeem because it is easy to decieve someone into thinking the R-Factor on that type of spa is so high it actualy adds heat to the water. Make sure you mention "during filtration" during your presentation because if someone is half way smart they will figure it out and not be real happy with your truthfullness.

R-Factor=thermal resistance factor.....determines the insulating value of a product. Air, as in dead air space has the worst R-factor in the world, I think there may be some gasses that have a worse R-Factor but air has none. Heated air is different, but remove the heat source and????? Common glass double pain windows range from 5-10. fully insulated walls, 10-20. 1 inch foam board 3-6 depending on density. 2 inch foam 6-12 and there are several other materials that can have a higher r-factor but be thinner and combined with other materials to create reflective values and so on.

Dissclaimer: Do not quote me on the r-values of the products I listed, these were for comparision purposes.

Question What is thebest insulation used for spas?

Answer The Best insulation for a spa is Thermal Sealed or sometimes called thermal lock, thermal pane or air tight. This method has the maximum amount of efficiency without letting cold air into the spa's equipment area.

(Beware! There are only a few ways to make a true thermally sealed spa. Some manufactures call their spa thermal pane, when actually they are vented and expensive to operate.)

Independent studies done by two universities ( Colorado and Arizona State Universities 1996) have found that using the waste heat generated by the equipment and transferring it into the spa's water is more efficient than filling the spa's cabinet with foam.

(We have seen some fully foamed spa companies attach tubing around the motors to capture some of the spa motor heat. This still a long way from full energy capture!)

When the equipment compartment on any spa is vented, the heat energy of the motors is lost forever. If you use your spa three times a week for one hour; that's one-half hour with the jet pumps on and one half-hour soaking with the low speed filter pump running.

Each 3 BHP/2HP continuous pump (high speed) emits approximately 1504 watts of equivalent heat. With two pumps that is 3008 watts of electrical energy the spa's heater does not have to produce.

3008 watts X 3 hours = 9.024 KWH

If your electric cost is 10 cents per KWH, that is approximately $0.90 per week of lost energy from just the operation of the high speed jet pumps! Add the savings from the low speed filtering, and you are easily saving a buck. That is one reason why true thermal pane spas can save $10 per month less, on the average, to operate than any comparably equipped fully foamed spa. The more you use the spa, the less each use costs you versus. the standard vented fully foamed spa designs.

In many spas some of the heat energy is captured by the warmth in the vented room, but most heat is lost. The more foam between the spa water and the equipment, the more energy is lost. This is called isolated equipment. It is similar to taking your home's heater and putting it outside with all the warm air ducts exposed to the outside cold air.

(For the engineering types; the above take into account the mechanical heat and the frictional heat that all pumps create and the cold air that eliminates that energy.)

Exposing the equipment to the outside air through the vents causes thermal stress to the plumbing. The air can be as cold as 10, 20, 30, or 45 degrees F. below zero, and the water inside the pipes is the spa temperature over 100 F. degrees. This can equate to a temperature difference on the plumbing as much as 110 to 145 degrees; cold on the outside and hot on the inside. This stresses the PVC, the glue joints, the unions and valves. Heat expands things, while cold contracts. Hot on the inside and cold on the outside! This is why vented spas develop leaks at a much higher rate compared to thermally sealed spas.

When a vented spa is without electrical power for even a few hours at below zero, the water inside the equipment will start to freeze. This is an extremely unfortunate experience! The warranties on all spas are void if you let your spa freeze. Water expands as it freezes, breaking parts.

The smartest thing to do is buy a spa with the maximum amount of freeze resistance (and energy efficiency). With a thermal pane spa, closed cabinet,the water in the spa vessel acts like a huge hot water bottle, and keeps the equipment and plumbing warm for days.

For a complete and very interesting booklet on spas and spa construction, order the book "How Spas Are Made" Call 1-888-478 2224. If you are serious about buying a spa, you can not afford to not read it!! It is now revised and expanded to 1999 standards. Only $9.95 plus shipping and handling of $2 Call now if no answer just leave your credit card number expiration date, name address and zip code.

We have an expanded Internet version available now for $6.95. You can get it in HTML that you can read with you browser Netscape, or Internet explorer, of if you prefer in a Microsoft Word format Windows or Macintosh. This book is written in plain terms that anyone can understand. It is easy to read. The common comments we get is "I couldn't put it down!"

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Question What is thebest insulation used for spas?

Answer The Best insulation for a spa is Thermal Sealed or sometimes called thermal lock, thermal pane or air tight. This method has the maximum amount of efficiency without letting cold air into the spa's equipment area.

(

That is straight from spa sales training class and is YOUR opinion, though you failed to throw in the "IMO". That CAN BE a good method if done properly but it can hardly be described as the BEST (that word should be banned from this site).

[Brulan1]

That is straight from spa sales training class and is YOUR opinion, though you failed to throw in the "IMO". That CAN BE a good method if done properly but it can hardly be described as the BEST (that word should be banned from this site).

THE BEST. Every company will eventually evolve and keep up with the times. As more and more years move foward, foam will be gone. Remember that

[spatech (the unreal one)]

THE BEST. Every company will eventually evolve and keep up with the times. As more and more years move foward, foam will be gone. Remember that

LOL, I'm sure that sales approach will work for some but I'll attribute your approach to eithe simple salesmanship or possibly you've actually been convinced that your statements really are that true. Coleman is a decent enough product so I'm sure you'll convince many that what your saying is true and you can even throw in the old "coleman cooler' examples like they are relevelant to the spas (which they are not) and that they have some bearing onthe spas (which they do not other than they use the same spelling in the name).

[Brulan1]

LOL, I'm sure that sales approach will work for some but I'll attribute your approach to eithe simple salesmanship or possibly you've actually been convinced that your statements really are that true. Coleman is a decent enough product so I'm sure you'll convince many that what your saying is true and you can even throw in the old "coleman cooler' examples like they are relevelant to the spas (which they are not) and that they have some bearing onthe spas (which they do not other than they use the same spelling in the name).

I am talking about facts, the real ones.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I am talking about facts, the real ones.

Sure, your facts LOL.

[Canadian Kahuna]

I remember somebody long ago with almost the identical posts in this forum, stuck on the same idea. I own a TP style tub, but don't say it's "the best", not until it can be proven undebateably and undeniably. Anyways, just sounds like somebody from the start of this forum, some may remember.

[Brulan1]

I remember somebody long ago with almost the identical posts in this forum, stuck on the same idea. I own a TP style tub, but don't say it's "the best", not until it can be proven undebateably and undeniably. Anyways, just sounds like somebody from the start of this forum, some may remember.

what is TP style tub?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I remember somebody long ago with almost the identical posts in this forum, stuck on the same idea. I own a TP style tub, but don't say it's "the best", not until it can be proven undebateably and undeniably. Anyways, just sounds like somebody from the start of this forum, some may remember.

Sure is similar but it certainly is a different person. Same "this is the only way" attitude.

[Brulan1]

Sure is similar but it certainly is a different person. Same "this is the only way" attitude.

This is the attitude I have to keep to sell all of the spa's I do

[spatech (the unreal one)]

This is the attitude I have to keep to sell all of the spa's I do

Well stop trying to sell it to us, we're not shopping.