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Shopping for a large hot tub: Bullfrog, Caldera, or something else?


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I'm shopping for a large hot tub. It’s our first time owning one. I've narrowed my search to Bullfrog (A9L, M8) and Caldera (Cantabria). I want to have at least one lounge seat, which eliminated Hotspring since their largest model, Grandee, doesn't have a lounger.

I'm concerned about the Bullfrog clip breakage issue, so that has me leaning toward the Caldera (Cantabria model), though I like how customizable the Bullfrog spas are. We will be doing saltwater, and I know the Caldera is sodium chloride based and the Bullfrog is sodium bromide based, but I don't have a strong preference. They each seem to have their own subscription maintenance components (disposable filter cartridges with the Bullfrog, the salt cartridges with the Caldera).

The hot tub will mostly be used by me and my husband, but we also intend to have friends over (we have a pool too), hence going for a large model. Winters here are cold and snowy, but we want to use the hot tub year round.

Does anyone have any personal experience that would have them recommend one over the other, or is there another brand I should consider more closely? We looked into quite a few (we are spoiled for choice in our area) but may have overlooked something. Thanks for reading!

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On 5/2/2023 at 1:58 PM, KateSnow said:

since their largest model, Grandee, doesn't have a lounger.

Why do you need the largest tub? Do you have 8 people living at home? 

Hotspring Highlife's biggest claim to fame are the motomassager jets which are unlike any other jet in the industry.  Seriously suggest you at least wet-test them before eliminating them from your list

Hot_Spring_Moto_Massage.gif.dd6b2d0c939bfb0838a067be5b393f76.gif

 

On 5/2/2023 at 1:58 PM, KateSnow said:

I'm concerned about the Bullfrog clip breakage issue, so that has me leaning toward the Caldera (Cantabria model)

Bullfrogs clips are absolutely something I'd be concerned about - they are affixed to the shell with glue so if they crack it's a pita to fix.  

Caldera's Utopia class is actually a step down from Hotspring Highlife spas in terms of performance (weaker pumps and plumbing design), and build quality (wood frame vs plastic tool grade framing which has a longer lifespan), and energy efficiency (fully foam vs fibercore insulation)

 

On 5/2/2023 at 1:58 PM, KateSnow said:

though I like how customizable the Bullfrog spas are.

Have you wet-tested any bullfrog spas or other spas in the industry?  Bulfrog spas tend to sit more upright and feel "flatter" due to the design of the interchangeable jet packs - other spa shells tend to have a more form fitting curved seats and loungers - you might find one more comfortable than the other (when filled with water - dry fitting into a tub is useless information as buoyancy plays a role in comfort)

On 5/2/2023 at 1:58 PM, KateSnow said:

And I know the Caldera is sodium chloride based and the Bullfrog is sodium bromide based, but I don't have a strong preference. They each seem to have their own subscription maintenance components (disposable filter cartridges with the Bullfrog, the salt cartridges with the Caldera).

FYI, several years ago Canada actually banned sodium bromide systems for health safety reasons (sodium bromide is also a strong insecticide which apparently causes enough respiratory issues that it gave Canada enough reason to completely ban the use of sodium bromide systems in hot tubs)

While my 2019 Hotspring Highlife spa has saltwater capabilities. I personally opted to skip them, in favor of an ozonator/silver mineral cartridge approach to reducing my chlorine needs.  After each soak I use a spring loaded sugar dispenser to add a precise dosage of granular chlorine so it's easy for guests: 1 click per person per 30 minutes soaking (rounding up) and that's basically it (clean filters monthly and boost pH when lower than 7.6).   Far more economical than the saltwater systems AND my water has less chlorine than my bathtub on a fresh fill of tap water every time I hop in for a soak (because the ozonator burns off the excess free chlorine by my next soak)

Yes I purge/refill my spa twice as often - but water is cheap, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

On 5/2/2023 at 1:58 PM, KateSnow said:

The hot tub will mostly be used by me and my husband, but we also intend to have friends over (we have a pool too), hence going for a large model.

The average spa owner hosts guests in the spa 3-4 times per year.    You'll find that many times people just don't have any interest, or that they're gross and can greatly affect your water chemistry with things like moisturizers/lotions on skin, soapy suds on bathing suits, etc. 

I would splurge on a nicer luxury spa over the largest spa you can find.

 

On 5/2/2023 at 1:58 PM, KateSnow said:

Does anyone have any personal experience that would have them recommend one over the other, or is there another brand I should consider more closely? We looked into quite a few (we are spoiled for choice in our area) but may have overlooked something. Thanks for reading!

If I were in your shoes, I would get a Hotspring Highlife Envoy which is the most therapeutic spa in the collection - it has every configuration of seating, including a lounger AND an admiral's chair with a lot more jets and wrist jets making it the most comfortable seat in the spa (aside from the lounger).

However I'm personally torn - I LOVE the look of the older 2014-2022 "NXT" generation of Highlife spas, but the new wrist jets on the loungers on the 2023 Highlife models have me jealous and considering an upgrade. 

However, I would also see if you have a Sundance dealer nearby.  They're owned by Jacuzzi and built in the same factory sharing many of the same components.   The Sundance 800 series Optima is one of the most therapeutic spas in the whole industry with jets that will nearly blast your butt out of the seat at max pressure lol

But as an industrial engineer, I'm a Hotspring Highlife fanboy, I won't deny it lol.  I waited 20 years for a luxury spa and have no regrets.  I love hot water and use my spa almost every night of the year. 

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Thank you for your detailed feedback, ratchett! 
 

I’ve repeatedly used two Hotsprings with those motomassager jets (a friend has a Vanguard and a family member has a Grandee), they are quite nice. I will take a look at the Envoy for sure, thanks! Although if we end up going with Hotsprings Highlife we’d probably just do the Grandee for the larger size at the sake of the lounger. We have a lot of hot tub enthusiast friends and family, so it will be used by a larger group of people a couple times each month.

We want a large spa because we find hot tubs to be crowded at their capacity, sitting hip to hip with legs intertwined in the middle. Our friend’s Highlife Vanguard feels full with 4 adults though it seats 6 (though I admit that may have something to do with my husband and I being quite tall, as are several of our friends).

I had noticed the flatness of the Bullfrog seats, that’s a good point. Also it’s probably not great to have a sodium bromide system for the hot tub but a sodium chloride for the pool when people inevitably go back and forth during the warmer months.

We went to a Sundance dealer but were put off by how little they seemed to know about their product (which is a dealer specific issue of course, but impacts my confidence in getting service in my area from this dealer).  

Thanks again for your comments. I’ll take a closer look at Hotsprings Highlife line for sure. 

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Full disclosure.  I was a Caldera and Hot Spring dealer from 2017-2022.  Opened my own shop and now sell Sundance.  If you are already looking at Hot Spring, also take a look at the Prism.  Same size as the Cantabria but can accommodate more people.  I wouldn't even bother with the Vanguard personally.  Its a great hot tub that can barely fit 4 adults (and that is coming from someone who is 5'8").

If you're willing to consider non-lounge models, The Sundance Aspen and Jacuzzi J-495 could be good options.  Maybe the Marquis Summit too.  As long as you are looking at premium brands, which you are, I would focus more on what fits your needs and what dealer is likely going to be able to take the best care of you.  Every product has its problems, pros and cons so I wouldn't let the little things like clip breakage on Bullfrog be a deterrent.  

If you do choose a lounge model, make sure to dry test and if possible wet test.  Each lounge is different and there is no such thing as a no-float lounge.  At my height, I didn't fit well in the Envoy/Cantabria/Geneva loungers.  I did better in the Prism.  I am not a lounge person, but if I had to buy a lounger hot tub today, it would still probably be a Caldera Seychelles even though I am no longer a Caldera dealer because that lounge fit me perfectly.  I will also say this about the Grandee.  Having a wide open foot well with no where to brace feet against can allow us vertically challenged people to have a hard time staying in the seat.

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Not sure if you have a Wellis Spa dealer in your hood but the Olympus model might be the size you are looking for. I add this only based on size and make no claim on product quality or performance.

https://thehottubpeople.com/products/call-for-pricing-wellis-olympus 

 

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Thank you all for the advice. We have two wet tests scheduled for tomorrow: a Caldera Cantabria and a Hot Springs Prism (we checked out the Envoy but it was too small for us). These two are pretty similar (makes sense since they’re from the same parent company) but have a few differences:

- Prism has more lights and more color options for the shell

- Cantabria has one more seat, larger water volume, and a neck pillow jet

Also in a very situation-specific factor: if we end up placing the hot tub where we’re thinking of, the Cantabria lounger would be facing a better view than the Prism’s lounge seat. 

We have also been learning more about covers. Briefly considered Covana but we’d need a huge one with the flat roof and I’m worried about it breaking down in the MN winters (and for $15-16k I don’t want to be worrying about it). Considering a Smartop cover in the Vanish XL style (about $2,600), but not sure it’s worth the upgrade. I like that it’s easy to move and won’t get waterlogged. 

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While I'm not an engineer at Watkins, I don't believe the Cantabria holds anymore water than the Prism even though it claims to hold 85 more gallons.  The Prism is in fact 2" bigger in one direction.  It also has more space since all the seats are full size.  

Maybe other's can chime in with more recent experience, but I haven't heard a lot of positive about SmartTop over the last few years from dealers who did sell them.  I sold them from 2014-2016 but left that job and didn't get firsthand long-term feedback.  Energy efficiency was always a concern and I would be curious / hesitant with long term durability.  I have no experience with Covana.  I personally would just stick with the factory cover and the Profit III / CoverCradle II cover lift.

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Both tests went well, so now we’re waiting for inspiration to strike and deciding which is “the one.” Though the Cantabria claims to hold more volume than the Prism, the Prism felt bigger (it is two inches wider vs Cantabria, but it felt more spacious in general for some unknown reason, perhaps the layout). Cantabria felt more suited to taller people like us, but we liked the feel of space in the Prism and most of the people we know with hot tubs have Hot Springs brand spas that they like, so it feels familiar. 
 

Thanks to castletonia for sharing your notes on covers.  Probably will stick to the regular cover as the Smartop is excessively expensive for a product only covered by a 3 year warranty (over $1k per year basically). 
 

Anyone see those nice composite steps that run the length of the tub? Well, a set that wraps around two sides and a corner is about $10k from A&B. Is this what is meant by “creeping elegance”? We’d already planned to add the stereo ($1,495 on either model).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just thought I’d give a final update on the selection process: we ended up ordering a Hot Spring Prism. It was pretty similar to the Cantabria, but the Prism was quieter, the seating was a bit more open and felt roomier (Cantabria squeezes and extra seat in theirs), and we liked the dealership a bit more than the other place. 

DH insisted on the stereo system, so you might see me back here in a year or so to complain about it if things go awry. We went with a regular cover with a lifter (not a Smartop which supposedly lasts the life of the tub but is only guaranteed for 3 years…). 
 

Thanks again for sharing your experience!

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