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Frustrating rash from Hot Tub. Help!


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Here's the back story:

New Caldera hot tub mid-november. Was sold Clear Choice enzymes and told it was all we needed to add to water. Water was instantly cloudy and smelly so we switched to chlorine. Water would still tend to get cloudy occasionally. By January, I was starting to notice small rashes on areas of my body. By end of January, I was covered in a rash. It was determined by doctors that is was a contact or irritant dermatitis. I managed to get it cleared up about 80% by not using the tub. Went back in, rash came back. My husband and daughter also had breakouts of the rash. Out of frustration, I finally had the tub drained, disinfected and the lines cleaned 1 week ago and started using the Frog @ease system. Water is clear and pristine and everything checks out perfectly on the test strips, but after using the tub twice, the rash is back again. I am considering trying bromine as maybe we are reacting to the chlorine but it's beyond frustrating not being able to use the tub or know what to do next. I'd appreciate any suggestions! We are new hot tub owners.

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Lets start with understanding a bit more about your tub's water.  Let us know your pH, total alkalinity (TA), calcium hardness (CH).  If you do not have a liquid test kit to measure these, take your water to a pool supply place and have them test it for you.  Your skin problems (especially with 3 of you affected) is almost certainly caused by bacteria as a result of insufficient sanitizer and less likely to be the sanitizer itself.  You mentioned your water was cloudy and smelly...this was a case of no sanitizer at one point for sure.  How do you test your chlorine level?  Do you test before you get in your tub? What is the level?  A significant amount of chlorine is needed after bathing (as much as 7 ppm per bather hour) just to clean up (oxidize) bather waste.  Whatever is left is used to sanitize the water.  Your frog system may not meet this demand.

You also mentioned that you did a disinfecting water change and line flush.  What products/process did you use?

Additional details will help us better understand what recommendations to make.  Bottom line, you will need to get a better handle on your sanitizer, be it chlorine or bromine.

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Thank you for the reply. I will do my best to give you some numbers but I am just working with just test strips although after being on this forum, I realize I need to invest in a liquid test kit. My free chlorine was down to 1 when I checked tonight so I added chlorine. I talked to dealer that sold me the spa today and he suggested I try to keep chlorine high between 5-10 for a while to try to get this bacteria that maybe be in there. The TA was 120, pH was 8.2 and hardness was a little hard to get since two different brands of strips gave me different readings but if I average maybe 100. I can try to take water to my pool place tomorrow for more accurate readings. The water was still crystal clear and no odor at all. I have not tested before we get in the tub for chlorine but I will certain start to make this the process. Before the rash, our average usage was 2 bathers/one hour soak daily. I didn’t always add chlorine after each use as I didn’t know to do this. I hired a spa service company to do the disinfecting and line flush and I also hired a water company to come refill it with water that came perfectly balanced (pH, TA and hardness). I can’t say their exact process but the chemical he used was serum total clean water are product. I know it was added to the water and the jet were ran for quite a while before the emptied it and disinfected and flushed the lines. No one has been in the tub since Sunday night after our skin broke back out. I’m being told to keep chlorine at 5-10 and even re-enter the tub once skin is clear and see if reoccurrence of the rash happens. Assuming it doesn’t, I’m still not exactly sure what I should adding on a daily/usage basis. And, if we do break back out, I have no idea what to do next. Appreciate any advice! We loved the hot tub before this and it’s torture to have invested 17k and not be able to enjoy it. 

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I am sure this must be a disappointing experience for you and your family.  Sanitizer is critical to keeping your water safe and I am pretty certain you are not using nearly enough.  Your tub also has a pH that is high and will limit the effectiveness of the chlorine.  You should try to keep that in the 7.4 to 7.8 range.

I check my chlorine daily (before use) and my pH weekly.  TA and CH monthly if I think they may be off.

Your bather load is very similar to mine.  We add 10-15 ppm of chlorine after every soak. 

There are a few stickies at the top of this forum that you should read.  The first is a process called decontamination.  If you want to be sure that you have eliminated all of the bacterial you should try this process.  After that, you need to balance your water and add and maintain your sanitizer.  Many of the people on this forum, including me, use the "dichlor then bleach" process for sanitizer.  It has many benefits but requires daily maintenance.  Bromine is another alternative that is a little more hands off and we have a sticky that describes that process too.

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Thanks again. It’s amazing how little guidance we were given when we purchased this. I maintain a 30,000 gallon in-ground swimming pool all summer and I expected the hot tub to be easier but it is, in fact, the opposite. Obviously, our sanitizer (or lack there of) is the issue. I will lower the pH and start checking the chlorine daily before we enter the pool. What level do I you keep your chlorine. The test strips say 1-3 but I’m now being told to keep the chlorine much higher around 5-10. Also, I know you said you add 10-15ppm of chlorine after each use but what does that translate to in a unit of measurement (say a tablespoon). I will review the stickies and I’m sure they explain the bleach but when do you add that on top of the chlorine? I’ve included a photo of the chlorine I have. If there’s something different/better that I need, please let me know. I’d buy/pay anything to be able to get back to soaking! I can’t thank you enough for your willingness to help. 

75522B93-32A7-48B7-89B2-92967D4BB9DB.png

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The recommended range for free chlorine is 3-5 PPM. You are looking for a residual Cl in your hot tub the next day after your soak the previous day that is in this range or perhaps a little lower.  For amounts you should use the pool calculator located here: https://www.poolcalculator.com/calculator/

You specify the gallons in your tub and it will tell you how much you need to add to reach your target.  I made this chart to have handy to the tub that would help me know how much chlorine was needed after a soak (based on 360 gal):

 

image.thumb.png.e9b1b803b74ec2c4362ee179f06611a2.png

 

Have a look at the top left two orange charts.  They tell me that I need to add about 10 ppm of Cl for a one hour soak for 2 people if a "cooler tub", say around 100 degrees.  For a hotter tub (104) the chart says 14 ppm for the same soak.  I use liquid pool chlorine (as my bleach, in the dichlor then bleach) so I take 10 ppm + 4 for residual (total 14 ppm) and I look in the orange columns on the right.  When my liquid chlorine is new and at 10% strength, I would put 6.3 fl oz of it in the tub when I get out.  If you are using Cl granules as in your picture above, 1 fl oz gives you 12 ppm Cl and 10 ppm CYA.  All of my numbers are for a 360 gal tub.  You should find your Cl in that 3-5 ppm range the next day.  If higher or lower than that, you need to add more or less Cl when you get out on the previous day.

Chlorine granules are referred to as dichlor. If you use just dichlor you will build up CYA really fast and will need to changed your water every month or so. That is why the dichlor then bleach method was created.  You only use dichlor until you get to 30ppm CYA and then you switch to bleach (that contains no CYA).

I am not familiar with the frog system and the information I am giving you does not have any other Cl sources.  If you would like to try this method, you should remove your frog system.  You need to read the section on setting up for dichlor then bleach as it requires your TA to be quite low. 

Good luck.

 

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Thanks again for the great information. Two questions:

1. If using liquid chlorine and not the chlorine granules, do you get the build up of CYA? And if that's the case, do you ever switch from the liquid chlorine to straight bleach?

2. Once CYA reaches 30ppm and I switch to bleach (which sounds like it would be about a week), do I then just use bleach exclusively until my next drain/refill (which I think would be about 4 months)?

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5 minutes ago, ItchyandFrustrated said:

1. If using liquid chlorine and not the chlorine granules, do you get the build up of CYA? And if that's the case, do you ever switch from the liquid chlorine to straight bleach?

There is no CYA in liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorite).  Liquid chlorine = bleach.  You can use pool chlorine (higher percentage, stronger) or plain, unscented laundry bleach (weaker).

6 minutes ago, ItchyandFrustrated said:

2. Once CYA reaches 30ppm and I switch to bleach (which sounds like it would be about a week), do I then just use bleach exclusively until my next drain/refill (which I think would be about 4 months)?

3 fl oz of dichlor gets you about 30 ppm CYA.  So depending on your use, a week might be accurate.  Just count the oz you put in. Yes, mostly bleach after that. Apparently CYA drops very slowly over time.  I use about 1/2 oz of dichlor about once a month after hitting the 30 ppm.  I target water changes every 4 months.  Water is crystal clear from start to end.

You do need to watch your pH when on bleach as it has a tendency to slowly walk up over 8 with time.  You just hit the tub with 1/2 to 1 fl oz of dry acid (ph Down) periodically when the ph gets up there.  This is why it is important to start with a lowish TA of 70 ppm to slow the pH rise.

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