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Black Mold!? Help Please! *Pics*


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Hi everyone, hope you're having a great day.  Long story short, I am struggling with some kind of mold/mildew outside of the water in my tub (valves, lights, cover, etc).  I have had 2 other hot tubs in Kentucky and Colorado and never had this issue (currently in Kansas).  I use the @EASE Frog floating ball and have been keeping hardness, alk, chlorine, PH in correct range.  I have pulled the cover off the foam of the cover and bleached & power washed it and have scrubbed (with bleach) the lights and valve controls as well just to have the mold come back.  I am literally lost here.  I am buying a whole house water filter in a couple weeks to maybe help as well.  Has anyone had experience with this before?  Please ask questions too, I have likely missed some details and I am no professional.  Appreciate the help!!

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These ranges are on the @EASE Frog system test strips

Hardness: Between 150-250ppm
PH: 7.5
TA: 100ppm
Chlorine: Is darker than the "smartchlor out indicator" w/ the Frog System

Tub get used by me about 3 times a week and I always add .3 oz of Granular56 when I get out and will shock with 1oz of Granular56 once a month.  I generally do a water chem test 3 times a week and I am usually having to add PH increaser to it throughout the week as needed.  I do a half drain every 2 months and change/wash filter about once a month.

Let me know if I can provide more info!  THanks so much!

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33 minutes ago, jaredthomas27 said:

Chlorine: Is darker than the "smartchlor out indicator" w/ the Frog System

??? That is not a chlorine reading. Not a fan of smartchlor from what I've heard of it. 

34 minutes ago, jaredthomas27 said:

Granular56

Sodium dichlor, nearly half cyanuric acid (cya, stabilizer). Regular use results in overstabilization, which reduces the effectiveness of the chlorine. Read the sticky thread in the chemistry section on the dichlor/bleach method.

@waterbearis our chemistry guru, I'm a repairman. I'm sure he'll have something to say on the subject when he comes around.

 

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What is your free chlorine reading in PPM right before you use your tub each time? 

You notionally need about 7 ppm of free chlorine to oxidize bather waste per bather hour.  That does not necessarily leave a residual chlorine to sanitize and keep black mold away.   In your description you are adding about 4 ppm (in a 360 gal tub) after each use (of an undisclosed duration).

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34 minutes ago, dashmer said:

What is your free chlorine reading in PPM right before you use your tub each time? 

You notionally need about 7 ppm of free chlorine to oxidize bather waste per bather hour.  That does not necessarily leave a residual chlorine to sanitize and keep black mold away.   In your description you are adding about 4 ppm (in a 360 gal tub) after each use (of an undisclosed duration).

Maybe this is my issue because I haven't been testing that since the "Frog System" seems to not require it.  I will post a picture below of the test strip guide that the system uses.  Apparently, according to the frog system, it will maintain 0.5-1.0 ppm of free chlorine and then the free chlorine will increase as needed when this is paired with the mineral float. Does that make any sense at all?  This is all according to their manual...Is this system just crap and I need to go back to a more basic/standard(not sure thats the right word) maintenance strategy? 

Essentials

NOTE: Why FROG @ease Test Strips? The FROG @ease SmartChlor Cartridge forms a chlorine reserve that will be inaccurately measured as total chlorine on other test strips. Unlike conventional chlorine, the SmartChlor reserve readily shifts to free chlorine as needed, maintaining spa health with a low level of chlorine

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Sorry but I don't know anything about the FROG system.  Perhaps their concept of a "chlorine reserve" is just CYA, as @RDspaguy mentioned.  My gut feeling is that you are running with too little Cl.

I personally use the dichlor then bleach method and it is great for me.  The only downside is you cannot leave your tub for more than a few days without someone treating it.

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1 hour ago, dashmer said:

Sorry but I don't know anything about the FROG system.  Perhaps their concept of a "chlorine reserve" is just CYA, as @RDspaguy mentioned.  My gut feeling is that you are running with too little Cl.

I personally use the dichlor then bleach method and it is great for me.  The only downside is you cannot leave your tub for more than a few days without someone treating it.

Thanks for the input dashmer.  If I decide to change my sanitation strategy, do you or anyone here recommend a "restart" process to get my tub back to square one?  I assume I would need to do the following:

1. Take the cover sleeve off and sanitize/power wash off the mold

2. Clean the mold off the lights and valves with bleach

3. Pull filter and clean

4. Shock water, then drain and fill

Do you have any other suggestions in starting over so I dont carry this issue into the future?

Thank you!

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I have not had to deal with black mold so I don't speak from experience but your plan looks pretty good but you could go a little further if you have the time.  

For your cover, you could make up a solution of 20% bleach to water in a spray bottle and spray your cover all over before pressure washing it off.

I would replace the filter.

You should read the stickies at the top of this forum on the dichlor then bleach method, and/or the 3 step bromine system (if you decide to switch your sanitizer strategy.)  There is also a decontamination process there that might be in order for your situation.  

Good luck with the clean up.

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16 minutes ago, dashmer said:

I have not had to deal with black mold so I don't speak from experience but your plan looks pretty good but you could go a little further if you have the time.  

For your cover, you could make up a solution of 20% bleach to water in a spray bottle and spray your cover all over before pressure washing it off.

I would replace the filter.

You should read the stickies at the top of this forum on the dichlor then bleach method, and/or the 3 step bromine system (if you decide to switch your sanitizer strategy.)  There is also a decontamination process there that might be in order for your situation.  

Good luck with the clean up.

Appreciate all your input!

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Frog system is a metal ion, low chlorine system that uses a propitiatory form of chlorine. Not a fan. If mold or mildew is growing in the tub it means that your chlorine is too low to kill it. Bottom line, ditch the frog and switch to the dichlor/bleach method (check the pinned posts in this section of the forum)  It's less expensive in the long run, easy once you understand it, and should not have any problems like this. I would purge with Ahhsome before starting the dichlor/bleach to ciean out any gunk in the plumbing (and I suspect that there is a lot since the tub is growing mold/mildew). The main expense you will have will be investing in a Taylor K-2006 (not the K-2005) test kit. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT USING STRIPS! Check Amazon or one of the online pool/spa supply retailers for the kit.

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On 1/9/2023 at 12:07 PM, jaredthomas27 said:

it will maintain 0.5-1.0 ppm of free chlorine and then the free chlorine will increase as needed when this is paired with the mineral float

Nope, not true. It's a low chlorine system that uses silver ions. Silver has slow kill times and is ineffective against viruses and not real good at killing mold and mildew, as you have seen. The small amount of chlorine in your tub is being depleted quickly by the mold present effectively only leaving the silver, which is NOT an  EPA approved sanitizer on it's own.

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4 hours ago, waterbear said:

Nope, not true. It's a low chlorine system that uses silver ions. Silver has slow kill times and is ineffective against viruses and not real good at killing mold and mildew, as you have seen. The small amount of chlorine in your tub is being depleted quickly by the mold present effectively only leaving the silver, which is NOT an  EPA approved sanitizer on it's own.

Thank you for all your input @waterbear, I will definitely be ditching the Frog and learning more about dichlor/bleach method to move forward with.

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5 hours ago, waterbear said:

It's a low chlorine system that uses silver ions.

I think he's talking about the "smartchlor" toilet bowl cleaner stuff.

I don't understand how it's supposed to work, (hell, I barely understand regular chlorine!😉) so am not a fan. Anything that complicates testing is not good in my opinion.

I am a fan of "minerals", but they do not reduce your need for chlorine. They do (slowly, like overnight) kill chlorine resistant contaminants, slow (or possibly halt) cellular division (the means by which pathogens reproduce and spread in a spa), and possibly slow the development of biofilm (a chlorine resistant pathogen farm in the pipes).

No studies have been done on that last bit that I know of, just an opinion based on my own observations. Maybe @Ahhsomeguyknows more on that subject. He knows everything else about biofilm.😉 

And you most definitely want to use his product in your spa, repeatedly, until no new gunk comes out. Leave the filter floating in the spa. Black mold is tough to get rid of once it's got it's foot in the door. I'd suggest that you also remove the jet inserts and pillows, and soak in bleach water (or ahhsome). Also clean behind the jet and suction flanges with a toothbrush and bleach after draining.

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1 hour ago, RDspaguy said:

I think he's talking about the "smartchlor" toilet bowl cleaner stuff.

I don't understand how it's supposed to work, (hell, I barely understand regular chlorine!😉) so am not a fan. Anything that complicates testing is not good in my opinion.

I am a fan of "minerals", but they do not reduce your need for chlorine. They do (slowly, like overnight) kill chlorine resistant contaminants, slow (or possibly halt) cellular division (the means by which pathogens reproduce and spread in a spa), and possibly slow the development of biofilm (a chlorine resistant pathogen farm in the pipes).

No studies have been done on that last bit that I know of, just an opinion based on my own observations. Maybe @Ahhsomeguyknows more on that subject. He knows everything else about biofilm.😉 

And you most definitely want to use his product in your spa, repeatedly, until no new gunk comes out. Leave the filter floating in the spa. Black mold is tough to get rid of once it's got it's foot in the door. I'd suggest that you also remove the jet inserts and pillows, and soak in bleach water (or ahhsome). Also clean behind the jet and suction flanges with a toothbrush and bleach after draining.

I will definitely be doing all of that.  Ordered some Ahhsome earlier today from Amazon.  Getting a whole home filter and softener installed next Friday and will be doing the drain, clean (tub and cover) and refill after that.  I havent noticed any mold under the water line itself so I am hoping its mostly contained outside of the water but will thoroughly clean anyways.  Havent decided on Bromine or Dichlor/Bleach method yet but imagine I will need to add calcium to the water since the new water will be soft.  You all have been awesome with information and I really appreciate all the input.

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Hello Jaredthomas27:  Eliminating Black Mold using the Ahhsome Hot Tub Plumbing & Jet Cleaner will be 100% effective.  Be sure to follow the instructions for best results.  You do not need to overdose.  This gel is very potent.  Add gel to hot water, place filter(s) in hot tub to just float on the water, open all air  intake venturi's and run for 20 minutes.  Based on the amount of mold you mention I do not feel you have to remove the jets and spend the extra time.  Ahh-Some will find all the nooks and crannies and remove the mold and any additional biological particulates.  Splash some of the Ahh-Some treated water on the cover top and bottom to remove anything colonizing you may not be aware of.  Before draining after the first 20 minute purge be sure to wipe all the released detritus sticky goo at the waterline and above, especially in the filter well are?  Add one or two additional LEVEL teaspoons of gel to the just purged and not yet drained water.  Run the jets on high for an additional 5 minutes.  If you get an additional release of gunk after this, wipe it up and add one LEVEL teaspoon of additional gel.  Run for 5 minutes.  You will typically not get any additional gunk released.  Now, drain, wipe and rinse.  Do NOT let any released gunk dry on the acrylic shell.  Drain as much as yiu can.  No need to vacuum out all the water.  When you refill yiu may see a few floaters on day 1 or 2.  No big deal with that.  Wipe them away with a hand towel.

Balance the new water to levels recommended in this forum.  It is a no brainer to use the Di-Chlor-Bleach method for sanitization.  This is the best system for stand-alone hot tubs.  Mold IS Formed when sanitizer levels are depleted for a period of time.  Many other far worse bacteria than mold can also colonize rapidly.  Maintaining a healthy hot tub is quite easy to do.

Balance the water, maintain adequate sanitizer using a reliable test kit (Not Strips), run filter for sufficient amount of time daily, clean filter(s) periodically, maintain cyanuric acid levels at 50 ppm maximum, keep the tub covered when not in use and PURGE every 4-6 months.  You have to drain the hot tub after using any pipe cleaner or purge product.  Sounds difficult but it is not.  After a few months it will become second nature for you.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ahhsomeguy said:

Hello Jaredthomas27:  Eliminating Black Mold using the Ahhsome Hot Tub Plumbing & Jet Cleaner will be 100% effective.  Be sure to follow the instructions for best results.  You do not need to overdose.  This gel is very potent.  Add gel to hot water, place filter(s) in hot tub to just float on the water, open all air  intake venturi's and run for 20 minutes.  Based on the amount of mold you mention I do not feel you have to remove the jets and spend the extra time.  Ahh-Some will find all the nooks and crannies and remove the mold and any additional biological particulates.  Splash some of the Ahh-Some treated water on the cover top and bottom to remove anything colonizing you may not be aware of.  Before draining after the first 20 minute purge be sure to wipe all the released detritus sticky goo at the waterline and above, especially in the filter well are?  Add one or two additional LEVEL teaspoons of gel to the just purged and not yet drained water.  Run the jets on high for an additional 5 minutes.  If you get an additional release of gunk after this, wipe it up and add one LEVEL teaspoon of additional gel.  Run for 5 minutes.  You will typically not get any additional gunk released.  Now, drain, wipe and rinse.  Do NOT let any released gunk dry on the acrylic shell.  Drain as much as yiu can.  No need to vacuum out all the water.  When you refill yiu may see a few floaters on day 1 or 2.  No big deal with that.  Wipe them away with a hand towel.

Balance the new water to levels recommended in this forum.  It is a no brainer to use the Di-Chlor-Bleach method for sanitization.  This is the best system for stand-alone hot tubs.  Mold IS Formed when sanitizer levels are depleted for a period of time.  Many other far worse bacteria than mold can also colonize rapidly.  Maintaining a healthy hot tub is quite easy to do.

Balance the water, maintain adequate sanitizer using a reliable test kit (Not Strips), run filter for sufficient amount of time daily, clean filter(s) periodically, maintain cyanuric acid levels at 50 ppm maximum, keep the tub covered when not in use and PURGE every 4-6 months.  You have to drain the hot tub after using any pipe cleaner or purge product.  Sounds difficult but it is not.  After a few months it will become second nature for you.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you Ahhsomeguy!  That is very helpful.  I went to Family Leisure today to get water tested until the new kit arrives.  Turns out CYA was 300+ ppm which is very high thus reducing the efficacy of the Chlorine.  Likely due to me trying to over compensate with the Granular56.  CYA was something I never knew about until I started reading this forum and researching so I really appreciate the folks in this forum.  Depending on Kansas winter weather, hoping to get everything clean and redone here in the next few weeks.

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20 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

I think he's talking about the "smartchlor" toilet bowl cleaner stuff.

Smartchlor is King Technologies name for 1,3-dichloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin, a form of chlorine stabilized with DMHD, not unlike bromine tabs. I can't find much on the chemistry behind this but I suspect it can lead to overstabilization in a way similar to CYA since chlorine oxidized to chloride cannot be regenerate the way bromine oxidized to bromine can be. I also suspect that it will test as combined chlorine and not free chlorine but, once again, cannot find anything conclusive on this.AFAIK, King Technologies is the only company using this form of chlorine for pools and spa but it is used in sewage and waste water treatment and is found in some household cleaning products such as toilet bowl cleaners..

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  • 1 year later...

Black mold or something else??? 
I have had hot tubs over 15 years with no issues. My present tub is a dimension one Lotus Bay. After 6 months I started getting black spot and steaks at the water line. I rubbed around the lights and my finger had black stain on them. Bleach did not remove the stain so it was not mold. It was the light seal / o rings wearing out. I called the Dimension one stated it was from not keeping the water balanced. They recommended putting silicone around the lights on my new tub. 
My water is always balanced. I did put silicone around the lights and the problem went away for a few months but came back. Dimension one refused to honor the warranty. Did the manufacturer of the o rings change the formula to what ever raw material they could find during this shortage of supplies?? Who knows but all he manufacturers will blame the water balance.

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